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Lavirac JR DUST University Ivy League 129	Posted - 2012.12.29 21:29:00 - [1] - Quote There are 3 reasons why I believe the militia forge gun as implemented now is a terrible idea. 1- This SEVERELY nerfs HAVs, Dropships, and LAVs. Everyone will have a militia suit made with a militia Forge just to pop any HAV that shows up in a match. Swarm Launchers were tough enough on vehicles, now everyone will have access to the highest direct damage dealing weapon in Dust. HAVs, Dropships, and LAVs will become even more limited use (Hell LAVs now are basically just disposable taxis) 2- It nerfs us specialized forge gun users... (yes, my reasoning is a bit selfish too). Corps will have minimal use for players that specialize in forge guns, when they can spam the field with militia users. It costs the most of infantry players to specialize in a Forge Gun SP-wise and the most isk-wise. Smart corps will soon realize, it is better to have a bunch of militia forge gunners on the field that can run other fits (say like Logi, assault, whatever) over a guy who wasted 2 million SP into forge guns. It is not in a corps benefit to recruit a forge gunner who needs a squad backing him up, while others are more able to be self-sufficient and can do his job(even if they are rather mediocre in doing it). 3- They are way too cheap and only require 7 more CPU and 1 more PG over the standard forge gun. Standard Forge Gun, 12,440 Isk, 53 CPU and 5 PG. Militia Forge Gun, 1,520 isk, 60 CPU, and 6 PG. For that price it should be 100 CPU and 15 PG, especially since a militia Heavy suit has 1 less high slot (meaning less modules to compensate for). So basically I believe they should be removed, or require Forge Gun Operation to use. This weapon is too powerful and imbalancing to let everyone have access too.
WHz DS9899 Doomheim 136	Posted - 2012.12.29 21:57:00 - [2] - Quote So very true. pilots have a hard enough time as is already with regular FG's and a full team of Swarms to deal with....
Noraa Anderson Nox Aeterna Security 184	Posted - 2012.12.29 22:39:00 - [3] - Quote True, but a properly fitted HAV or DS is pretty invulnerable against the Militia FG. I should know seeing as I've been using it for a while and skilling up to be a FG Heavy. Nothing pleases me more than the sight of an LAV, though, which only once has a direct hit not taken one out. I think the MFG could fairly stay if its damage was nerfed by 200 points and it still required FG Operation to weild.
Draco Dustflier Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 45	Posted - 2012.12.29 22:51:00 - [4] - Quote no. they should stay. this is a fps, not world of tanks. it's not fun for anyone if tanks rule the battlefield. edit: although i see no problem with a damage nerf and maybe a little less ammo if everybody has one.
Lorpsajee Nos Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2012.12.29 23:42:00 - [5] - Quote Forge guns are pretty limited in use at the moment although powerful when used properly. There should be better rewards for choosing to specialise in them if the militia variant stays.
Tyriana Sarkin Algintal Core Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:47:00 - [6] - Quote The militia forge gun is already pretty balanced. The real forge gunners can do way, way more damage and have more ammo. They're just an alternative to the militia swarm launcher, which I appreciate, because I don't like the lock on rockets. Also, if a team has to field a bunch of militia forges, now you've got a bunch of fat squishy targets running around not helping, so it effectively keeps people out of the game even though they're not dead. No good corp is going to rely on that as opposed to one good forge gunner. Note: none of the above represents an official position of Tritan Industries.
Ultra Boomer2 GRIM MARCH SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5	Posted - 2012.12.31 00:38:00 - [7] - Quote as much as I hate the militia forge gun for the same as your reason 2, I could deal with it if it took like 95CPU and 10PG, and had a 5 second charge time. because the addition ruins forge gun specialization. sure we can do more damage, but with 2-3 people wielding militia. there is no point calling a proto forge out.
Encharrion L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 104	Posted - 2012.12.31 05:38:00 - [8] - Quote I think the damage should be reduced by quite a bit, that way it allows people thinking about speccing into forge guns to try them out before expending skill points into them to see if they want to take that path.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.12.31 08:18:00 - [9] - Quote feh, just make it a breach type, the extended charge time and movement hampering ought to make everyone happy. I'm a Forge as well, and I'm torn between supporting what could get people into an alternate playstyle and specialization, and lambasting it for making hyperspecialization in Forges a tad redundant. I feel making it Breach will be a happy medium.
NovaShadowStorm The Southern Legion 63	Posted - 2012.12.31 10:32:00 - [10] - Quote Draco Dustflier wrote: no. they should stay. this is a fps, not world of tanks. it's not fun for anyone if tanks rule the battlefield. edit: although i see no problem with a damage nerf and maybe a little less ammo if everybody has one. Agreed, just dropped into a game then with 4 tanks rolling about and everyone dead upon spawn. Not cool at all. I'd support a damage nerf, longer spin up and less clip, not less ammo. Less ammo would be annoying since heavies can't carry nanohives so you'd always be running looking for one, just make the clip 2-3 shot that way when reloading they'd be easy targets. Oh and as for needing FG I then you might as well not bother with standard forge guns because all they take is FG I to use. And for those who haven't checked FG I does require Weaponry V to skill into.

Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2012.12.31 12:36:00 - [11] - Quote My Saga laughs at your pathetic militia forge guns. 2588 shields/789 armor/11% shield damage reduction. I get hit by those weak excuses for a forge gun all the time and have only lost 2 Sagas to them so far. 1 of which was because I had just taken a swarm and spun out. If a tanker can't deal with all the shields and armor at their disposal, spec into something else.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.01 01:28:00 - [12] - Quote Lavirac JR wrote: There are 3 reasons why I believe the militia forge gun as implemented now is a terrible idea. 1- This SEVERELY nerfs HAVs, Dropships, and LAVs. Everyone will have a militia suit made with a militia Forge just to pop any HAV that shows up in a match. Swarm Launchers were tough enough on vehicles, now everyone will have access to the highest direct damage dealing weapon in Dust. HAVs, Dropships, and LAVs will become even more limited use (Hell LAVs now are basically just disposable taxis) 2- It nerfs us specialized forge gun users... (yes, my reasoning is a bit selfish too). Corps will have minimal use for players that specialize in forge guns, when they can spam the field with militia users. It costs the most of infantry players to specialize in a Forge Gun SP-wise and the most isk-wise. Smart corps will soon realize, it is better to have a bunch of militia forge gunners on the field that can run other fits (say like Logi, assault, whatever) over a guy who wasted 2 million SP into forge guns. It is not in a corps benefit to recruit a forge gunner who needs a squad backing him up, while others are more able to be self-sufficient and can do his job(even if they are rather mediocre in doing it). 3- They are way too cheap and only require 7 more CPU and 1 more PG over the standard forge gun. Standard Forge Gun, 12,440 Isk, 53 CPU and 5 PG. Militia Forge Gun, 1,520 isk, 60 CPU, and 6 PG. For that price it should be 100 CPU and 15 PG, especially since a militia Heavy suit has 1 less high slot (meaning less modules to compensate for). So basically I believe they should be removed, or require Forge Gun Operation to use. This weapon is too powerful and imbalancing to let everyone have access too. I respectfully disagree with your proposed changes, however I generally agree with the problems/shortcomings you identify. A better fix would be to lightly retouch the vehicle lines to provide a light increase of survivability. Militia, or even the stronger Meta 1, forge gun cannot simply pop any HAV that shows up in a match. More often than not I'm able to unload a full 4 shots into a (non-proto) HAV without bringing down its shields (Weaponry 5, Forg Op 3). Players using the militia forge are going to be employing a weaker weapon (clip size) with lessor skills. While I don't deny that proliferation of an AV weapon does effect the landscape of the game it's better addressed by a touch up of the AV/Vehicle balance rather than making access to a unique weapon type harder for new players to attain and thus diminishing game diversity due to restricted player choice. I think here is where we differ most greatly. A player with advanced gear and character skills in forge guns is an asset to any Corp that wishes to participate in competitive Corp matches or Tournaments. When reaction time and "bang for your buck" effect are vital to success you do not want large portions of your quad to be running in fits which their skills and experience provide only mediocre support for, you want character skills, and more importantly player skills, which provide the greatest return for the roster spot filled. If a large portion of your Tournament team, let alone the smaller Corp match teams, switch to AV fits in response to a HAV you've just given the opposing forces an advantage as their assaults are now able to push with greater effect. The most valid role a militia forge might serve within an organized team would be to support the proper forge gunner with a bit of additional dps, and mostly provide a diversionary target for enemies who haven't narrowed down the forge with greatest damage output. For competitive Corp play everyone needs a squad backing him up, even snipers on distant hilltops should be receiving various forms of teamwork and squad support. Without strong synergistic team play a Corp can expect to lose most competitive battles. I"m no averse to a bit of a price bump in the militia forge, I think the stats are about right but there is clearly quite the gap in ISK invested verses returns provided when used by characters/players with equal skill. Removal seems completely excessive, and the CPU/PG stats you quote for a change are pretty extreme when you look at the total amount of either provided by dropsuits. Doubly true since the militia heavy already has limitations (as you noted) thus further reducing the possible on field value of a "pure militia" AV forge fit. The real problem with the militia forge is in high level characters using it as a cheap spam-able option, and a tweak in price should mitigate that sufficiently. As to players without supporting skills, the lack of those skills and the limitations of running militia forge + militia heavy are sufficient to maintain a reasonable curve as compared to other forge guns. The real issue is that vehicles are on average slightly to moderately too fragile when compared with their cost in ISK and SP. In prior builds this was less true due to their higher damage output (honestly excessively high in the case of things like OHK missile splash), but with the recent rebalance of turrets, and reduction in base CPU a light touch up (buff) to their average HP curve is warranted. Such a touch up would also reduce the effective value of the militia forge for high level play (which is reasonable) and thus address your concerns about it diminishing the value of a merc who's specialized into that role. 0.02 ISK Cross
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.01 05:05:00 - [13] - Quote I've killed about 8-10 HAVs with a militia forge so far. The number would be higher but the other thirty I have been shooting at declined to remain in convenient places for me to shoot them like stunned sheep. or they were tanked properly. In most cases both. A good shield tank loses maybe 1/8th of it's shield to a militia forge. A good driver doesn't stand still with his well-tanked HAV while I fire the nine times and reload twice in order to gank him. The only good tanker I got had pissed us all off and there were like six or more of us bombarding him with swarms and forges of all types. Killshot came from a Ishukone Forge
Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2013.01.01 05:07:00 - [14] - Quote I think the militia version should have a nerf tbh because as it stands now the only thing seperating a militia FG and a STD is the ammo and honestly i think maybe if they nerfed that then they should add that as the militia av standard and remove MLT swarms.. i mean hell you have to have weaponry five to use them properly anyways
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.01 05:16:00 - [15] - Quote Enji Elric wrote: I think the militia version should have a nerf tbh because as it stands now the only thing seperating a militia FG and a STD is the ammo and honestly i think maybe if they nerfed that then they should add that as the militia av standard and remove MLT swarms.. i mean hell you have to have weaponry five to use them properly anyways militia forges are useless versus proper fit HAVs I've shot 4 dropships with them, but none of them popped. it was a disappoint. HAV kills all sat there while I unloaded the clip, reloaded, unloaded the clip, reloaded and unloaded again, or thought they were clever and tried to pop back and forth from cover predictably. Now when you have a skilled tank driver get killed by a solo militia forge WITHOUT being bombarded by multiple aggressors I'll take this more seriously as long as it happens more than once, and doesn't involve the tank getting caught and stuck on terrain or something stupid. Personally i think vehicle recovery options should be implemented if you think the AV situation is too hot. With the same limitation of vehicle delivery. Takes time to arrive, and if you call to close to buildings the RDV can crash and fall on your toy. i don't care if LAVs get one-shotted. Shooting a jeep with an antitank weapon should pretty much do that. But I've hit LAVs that took two shots. I've heard of three, but never seen.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.01 05:29:00 - [16] - Quote Oh wait, I forgot the important part. Ask me if I think militia forges are NEEDED. Personally IMHO the first militia heavy weapon should have been a dumbed down HMG, since that doesn't need weaponry 5 to use the basic one. Do i think militia forge is OP? Not a chance in hell. Mt KD ratio with a forge suit setup is around 1 kill per 5 deaths when I'm rocking out in the zone and everything goes right. tanks that are properly tanked and have secondary turret gunners whup my ass almost every time if I try them solo. The ones that don't I merely chase off behind cover several times before a match ends. But do I think the militia forge is necessary? No. A militia HMG setup would be the best thing for aspiring heavies
Sgt Kirk ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2013.01.01 06:08:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I've killed about 8-10 HAVs with a militia forge so far. The number would be higher but the other thirty I have been shooting at declined to remain in convenient places for me to shoot them like stunned sheep. or they were tanked properly. In most cases both. A good shield tank loses maybe 1/8th of it's shield to a militia forge. A good driver doesn't stand still with his well-tanked HAV while I fire the nine times and reload twice in order to gank him. The only good tanker I got had pissed us all off and there were like six or more of us bombarding him with swarms and forges of all types. Killshot came from a Ishukone Forge That was me you hellhounds!
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.01 06:10:00 - [18] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: That was me you hellhounds! you're welcome!
Sgt Kirk ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2013.01.01 06:24:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: That was me you hellhounds! you're welcome! Almost like those nature documentaries of ants taking down a lizard. A 2,000,000 ISK lizard...
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.01 06:31:00 - [20] - Quote More expensive means more tasty.

Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2013.01.01 08:47:00 - [21] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Lavirac JR wrote: There are 3 reasons why I believe the militia forge gun as implemented now is a terrible idea. 1- This SEVERELY nerfs HAVs, Dropships, and LAVs. Everyone will have a militia suit made with a militia Forge just to pop any HAV that shows up in a match. Swarm Launchers were tough enough on vehicles, now everyone will have access to the highest direct damage dealing weapon in Dust. HAVs, Dropships, and LAVs will become even more limited use (Hell LAVs now are basically just disposable taxis) 2- It nerfs us specialized forge gun users... (yes, my reasoning is a bit selfish too). Corps will have minimal use for players that specialize in forge guns, when they can spam the field with militia users. It costs the most of infantry players to specialize in a Forge Gun SP-wise and the most isk-wise. Smart corps will soon realize, it is better to have a bunch of militia forge gunners on the field that can run other fits (say like Logi, assault, whatever) over a guy who wasted 2 million SP into forge guns. It is not in a corps benefit to recruit a forge gunner who needs a squad backing him up, while others are more able to be self-sufficient and can do his job(even if they are rather mediocre in doing it). 3- They are way too cheap and only require 7 more CPU and 1 more PG over the standard forge gun. Standard Forge Gun, 12,440 Isk, 53 CPU and 5 PG. Militia Forge Gun, 1,520 isk, 60 CPU, and 6 PG. For that price it should be 100 CPU and 15 PG, especially since a militia Heavy suit has 1 less high slot (meaning less modules to compensate for). So basically I believe they should be removed, or require Forge Gun Operation to use. This weapon is too powerful and imbalancing to let everyone have access too. I respectfully disagree with your proposed changes, however I generally agree with the problems/shortcomings you identify. A better fix would be to lightly retouch the vehicle lines to provide a light increase of survivability. ETC 0.02 ISK Cross Dammit Cross, I was trying to be a douche and you had to come in and address the real issue. Not only that, but you wrote so much that I had to edit your beautiful post's length in order to quote it and still have room for my own post... Ah well. If I were to actually give a factual view of it, it wouldn't vary far from what you've wrote here except for the price jump. A forge gunner, especially a new player forge gunner, is going to die a LOT learning how to take out tanks. All forge gunners die regularly while attempting to take out tanks. Their focus is the tank. If they attempt to fight their way to the tank, they are at a severe disadvantage since they are in a crawling lump of a suit with no nimbleness whatsoever and stuck with a sidearm and a weapon that has to charge and is very difficult to us as AI at close range. If you run it on a skinweave or militia heavy (seems to be the fear of every tanker out there all of a sudden) your survivability drops drastically when you could be using a much stronger suit you have skilled into. Even still, I have yet to see a tank beyond a militia fit that has taken less than 4 militia forge shots to kill (I've been testing it a bit). You MIGHT get a dropship in two if it's militia, usually would take three if you put any money into it though, but if you hang around in the air long enough to get shot 3 times by a militia forge gun, that's your own fault for not hauling ass once you got hit the first time. As for tanks, that reduced clip means you have plenty of time to move once you've been hit by the first blast before the fourth round from the new clip can get to you. The purpose of militia gear is to give people an extremely cheap means of using gear without needing to skill into it. This is of course a needed and valuable part of the game, although it also needs to include ALL weapons, turrets and vehicle mods, not just a limited select few from each category. You have to keep in mind that militia gear also allows people to snipe 300,000 ISK dropsuits with a militia sniper rifle or pop them with a militia shotgun. Militia weapons have to be as good as the basic but with drawbacks to balance it out. If it isn't equivelent to a basic, you have no chance of figuring out if the basic is worth skilling into. Militia weapons have always been the same or close to a basic, but with higher CPU/PG and less in a clip with a few other variations. The current forge gun isn't grotesquely deviant from the militia gear pattern laid down by every other militia weapon dropped on us so far, in fact it it is the same method they use for every militia weapon they provide within a range of variations. The drop in the clip size is actually a very large penalty for a forge gun since it has such a small clip to begin with, so they counter balanced this by slightly decreasing the charge time. (I heard that from a corp mate, not certain if the decreased charge time is true or not, but I'll be sure to check later) There will always be people who disagree and insist it's OP for one reason or another, cost or otherwise, but just like with the shotgun and sniper it will eventually pass and be accepted as a regular thing that has to be worked into your in game strategy by the majority of players. Especially since I fully agree with a slight bump to vehicle survivability. HOWEVER, on that part I would only agree to an extent. To the extent that they need more CPU/PG in order to fit better mods for protection. Also, as I said above, militia mods and turrets for ALL types of vehicle mods and turrets (even ones yet to be released) need to be on the market.
arimal lavaren L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 186	Posted - 2013.01.01 14:33:00 - [22] - Quote My only issue is I thought the more specialized weapons all required SP to use before. Where is my militia Laser Rifle or Mass Driver then?
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2013.01.01 15:47:00 - [23] - Quote Every weapon should have a militia variant. That's the whole point of militia gear. The only issue is how powerful they should be. At the moment all I ever hear on forgegun nerf threads are either complaints that someone got a lucky OHK on them, or tank drivers expecting to rule the battlefield. Anyone running an FG knows assault is the way to go, so the militia forge is already hopeless at a sincere AV attempt. The best AV game you can hope for with a militia FG is area denial, or the off chance of stealing someone else's kill.
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 73	Posted - 2013.01.01 17:39:00 - [24] - Quote I am a HAV pilot, and I disapprove of this thread. Militia Forge Guns are so weak, and Militia Dropsuits so fragile. I gobble them up with my HAV. Fatboys with the REAL big ***** guns are something to be feared. I can take them out almost as quickly, but that still gives them more damage, and more time to deal that damage. Those experienced with the Forge Gun (experience, not skill) are even more dangerous, and very few people will train that extensively for a fitting they rarely use. Though, to be honest, the Militia Swarm Launcher is far more overpowered than the Militia Forge Gun. Even though it's the weakest swarm launcher, I seem to be left in a burning pile of rubble by it the most. Everyone can literally just jump into a pre-provided Anti-Vehicle Militia Fit and murder a tank. It doesn't take skill to launch homing missiles on top of a building or out of range of a tank's weapon, so that is by far the worst case of injustice that vehicles face. Especially LAVs and Dropships, which are normally fast enough to avoid Forge Gunners. Worst is the fact that you don't have to be a Fatboy to carry one of them. I compare it to giving an Assault Fitting a Heavy Machine Gun with homing bullets.**
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2013.01.01 22:11:00 - [25] - Quote **** is dumb. Militia Forge is 1.5k ISK, deals 1.2k Damage, isn't really slow to charge up and I can easily kill Infantry with it. Started playing again yesterday, took out two tanks with it and got quite a few Infantry kills. Rolled around in my Gunlogi afterwards and got popped by a Militia Swarm and Forge Gunner (Militia Swarm got the kill) and then later on got killed by Militia Forge Gun (I don't think he was the only guy firing though). I mean, I was starting to get SP into my AV weapons but it's stupid, why bother? I just use Militia Swarms and Militia Forge Guns since they're just as good as the others.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.01 23:19:00 - [26] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: **** is dumb. Militia Forge is 1.5k ISK, deals 1.2k Damage, isn't really slow to charge up and I can easily kill Infantry with it. Started playing again yesterday, took out two tanks with it and got quite a few Infantry kills. Rolled around in my Gunlogi afterwards and got popped by a Militia Swarm and Forge Gunner (Militia Swarm got the kill) and then later on got killed by Militia Forge Gun (I don't think he was the only guy firing though). I mean, I was starting to get SP into my AV weapons but it's stupid, why bother? I just use Militia Swarms and Militia Forge Guns since they're just as good as the others. Once i get used to the assault forge on my heavy I would like to have words with you. they begin with Ha, go on for about five minutes and ends with HAHAHAHAHA in an evil cackling mad scientist voice. Imagine Doctor Horrible, only scary.
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2013.01.01 23:21:00 - [27] - Quote If only they went the route of BF3 :P Ahhh Have fun in eve514 guys Dark~
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.01 23:27:00 - [28] - Quote DarkShadowFox wrote: If only they went the route of BF3 :P Ahhh Have fun in eve514 guys Dark~ You mean playing obsessively for a week and a half leaving you maxed out in everything? No thank you sir, I would like to have a game that has long-term playability behind it instead of merely the hot thing until the next MAG/COD/Blackops/Halo/insertwhateverhere comes out. If this game is successful, it will garner updates, new weapons, new structures, new dropsuits and a permanently dedicated DEV team who's sole purpose in life is to make the game better and to add yet more ways for us to slaughter each other and kill EVE players. I wait with baited breath for the day someone realizes I'm accepting orbital strike requests from both sides of a groundfight and shooting at everyone with sadistic glee. Edit: and then uses orbital defenses to pop my ship. THEN I will call DUST awesome.
Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2013.01.04 20:47:00 - [29] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DarkShadowFox wrote: If only they went the route of BF3 :P Ahhh Have fun in eve514 guys Dark~ You mean playing obsessively for a week and a half leaving you maxed out in everything? No thank you sir, I would like to have a game that has long-term playability behind it instead of merely the hot thing until the next MAG/COD/Blackops/Halo/insertwhateverhere comes out. If this game is successful, it will garner updates, new weapons, new structures, new dropsuits and a permanently dedicated DEV team who's sole purpose in life is to make the game better and to add yet more ways for us to slaughter each other and kill EVE players. I wait with baited breath for the day someone realizes I'm accepting orbital strike requests from both sides of a groundfight and shooting at everyone with sadistic glee. Edit: and then uses orbital defenses to pop my ship. THEN I will call DUST awesome. Well said. Just wanted to bump this once to give it a chance to garner further debate, I like this thread.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Doomheim 83	Posted - 2013.01.04 22:31:00 - [30] - Quote I have nothing to MForge gun, they could have lower direct and splash dmg. As for Forge gun in general, I would be happy if the wp reward was distributed on the basis of the damage you done to target. Many times when deal 99% of damage to enemy vehicle, all I got was half reward(because some dude with crappy AV weapon finish last 1% of my target).

Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2013.01.05 05:59:00 - [31] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: I have nothing to MForge gun, they could have lower direct and splash dmg. As for Forge gun in general, I would be happy if the wp reward was distributed on the basis of the damage you done to target. Many times when deal 99% of damage to enemy vehicle, all I got was half reward(because some dude with crappy AV weapon finish last 1% of my target). We have talked about this many times before. This kind of thing would have to apply to all AV weapons though. What would have to happen is you gain X amount of WP for dealing Y amount of damage to said vehicle. This would allow AV players who hunt a tank all match and get killed repeatedly with little to no kills to still get rewarded for their contribution to the team. As for reducing damage of forge guns, that would be insane since it's already a pain in the ass to take out a top level tank unless your entire squad are AV players, and if there are 2 or more top level tanks, you pretty much need the whole team to start AV gearing. And that means the ground troops on the enemy team can easily pop you while you are trying to pop the tanks. You nerf the forge gun and tanks will dominate so bad that there will be no point in speccing into anything but tanks and AV.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.05 10:30:00 - [32] - Quote The whole point of militia grade stuff is that it DOESN'T require skills. Making it require skills would not make sense. If its too powerful, than nerf it, and raise fitting requirements.
Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2013.01.06 02:42:00 - [33] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The whole point of militia grade stuff is that it DOESN'T require skills. Making it require skills would not make sense. If its too powerful, than nerf it, and raise fitting requirements. Fitting req's, sure. Not nerfing the damage. The militia has to stay in step with the basic or it will throw off the whole system they have for militia items. Smaller clip, more req's, same as basic.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.06 03:23:00 - [34] - Quote Overlord Ulath wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The whole point of militia grade stuff is that it DOESN'T require skills. Making it require skills would not make sense. If its too powerful, than nerf it, and raise fitting requirements. Fitting req's, sure. Not nerfing the damage. The militia has to stay in step with the basic or it will throw off the whole system they have for militia items. Smaller clip, more req's, same as basic. I really don't care if the damage is kept the same or not, its not really important. What is important is that it remains a way for players to try a weapon without having to invest skill points; that is the real point of militia items, and I don't see why maintaining damage the same as standard is needed to achieve that.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.06 06:46:00 - [35] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DarkShadowFox wrote: If only they went the route of BF3 :P Ahhh Have fun in eve514 guys Dark~ You mean playing obsessively for a week and a half leaving you maxed out in everything? No thank you sir, I would like to have a game that has long-term playability behind it instead of merely the hot thing until the next MAG/COD/Blackops/Halo/insertwhateverhere comes out. If this game is successful, it will garner updates, new weapons, new structures, new dropsuits and a permanently dedicated DEV team who's sole purpose in life is to make the game better and to add yet more ways for us to slaughter each other and kill EVE players. I wait with baited breath for the day someone realizes I'm accepting orbital strike requests from both sides of a groundfight and shooting at everyone with sadistic glee. Edit: and then uses orbital defenses to pop my ship. THEN I will call DUST awesome. ^This o7 Breakin Stuff
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.06 11:50:00 - [36] - Quote I use the militia forge obsessively on maps where LAV and HAVs get spammed. More because I think its hilarious to watch dumbasses who dont understand tanks panic and flee when I start firing. every now and again I get this orgasmic moment when I fire the militia forge and HALF THE SHIELDS DROP IN ONE SHOT!!!!! Then the next three shots plink off the armor and the driver retreats behind cover to repair faster than my fatsuit legs can carry me. Its the ultimate rejection. the gamer equivalent of having your hand fall asleep masturbating. militia forge guns are for weeding out the weak, stupid and lazy of the tank world. The disappointment was crushing... I lose 6-7 militia heavies in a match for two or three balochs, an maybe a sica every few matches. If I feel really hardcore, I shoot a dropship and it crashes because I sent it ass over teakettle but no kill credit. Then I trained the assault forge guns. The militia forges were nice, and when I got really lucky, the fates delivered me idiots who think running straight at heavies alone is like Marine Corps badass. But with the assaults, and higher? I AM THOR!!! EFFING GOD OF THUNDER! BOW BEFORE ME! PUNY GUNNLOGI! Ok maybe not that awesome but still pretty cool. Actual skills with actual forge guns make tankers cry as their steel coffins burn. Bring buddies to hold off the inevitable rush of bads coming to bust your high. scouts are almost impossible to hit. bring a toxin. Plus its cooler to say you lost three heavy IIs with advanced modules and a level three forge for a fifth of a mil than if you zergrush cheapass militia suits killing a gunnlogi or madrugar. Mostly because with the real heavy fit you might actually kill a tanker with more than lukewarm IQ. You yourself must also be higher than room temp IQ or youre just wasting ISK


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