Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.01.01 01:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Lavirac JR wrote:There are 3 reasons why I believe the militia forge gun as implemented now is a terrible idea.
1- This SEVERELY nerfs HAVs, Dropships, and LAVs. Everyone will have a militia suit made with a militia Forge just to pop any HAV that shows up in a match. Swarm Launchers were tough enough on vehicles, now everyone will have access to the highest direct damage dealing weapon in Dust. HAVs, Dropships, and LAVs will become even more limited use (Hell LAVs now are basically just disposable taxis)
2- It nerfs us specialized forge gun users... (yes, my reasoning is a bit selfish too). Corps will have minimal use for players that specialize in forge guns, when they can spam the field with militia users. It costs the most of infantry players to specialize in a Forge Gun SP-wise and the most isk-wise. Smart corps will soon realize, it is better to have a bunch of militia forge gunners on the field that can run other fits (say like Logi, assault, whatever) over a guy who wasted 2 million SP into forge guns. It is not in a corps benefit to recruit a forge gunner who needs a squad backing him up, while others are more able to be self-sufficient and can do his job(even if they are rather mediocre in doing it).
3- They are way too cheap and only require 7 more CPU and 1 more PG over the standard forge gun. Standard Forge Gun, 12,440 Isk, 53 CPU and 5 PG. Militia Forge Gun, 1,520 isk, 60 CPU, and 6 PG. For that price it should be 100 CPU and 15 PG, especially since a militia Heavy suit has 1 less high slot (meaning less modules to compensate for).
So basically I believe they should be removed, or require Forge Gun Operation to use. This weapon is too powerful and imbalancing to let everyone have access too.
I respectfully disagree with your proposed changes, however I generally agree with the problems/shortcomings you identify.
A better fix would be to lightly retouch the vehicle lines to provide a light increase of survivability.
- Militia, or even the stronger Meta 1, forge gun cannot simply pop any HAV that shows up in a match. More often than not I'm able to unload a full 4 shots into a (non-proto) HAV without bringing down its shields (Weaponry 5, Forg Op 3). Players using the militia forge are going to be employing a weaker weapon (clip size) with lessor skills. While I don't deny that proliferation of an AV weapon does effect the landscape of the game it's better addressed by a touch up of the AV/Vehicle balance rather than making access to a unique weapon type harder for new players to attain and thus diminishing game diversity due to restricted player choice.
- I think here is where we differ most greatly. A player with advanced gear and character skills in forge guns is an asset to any Corp that wishes to participate in competitive Corp matches or Tournaments. When reaction time and "bang for your buck" effect are vital to success you do not want large portions of your quad to be running in fits which their skills and experience provide only mediocre support for, you want character skills, and more importantly player skills, which provide the greatest return for the roster spot filled. If a large portion of your Tournament team, let alone the smaller Corp match teams, switch to AV fits in response to a HAV you've just given the opposing forces an advantage as their assaults are now able to push with greater effect. The most valid role a militia forge might serve within an organized team would be to support the proper forge gunner with a bit of additional dps, and mostly provide a diversionary target for enemies who haven't narrowed down the forge with greatest damage output. For competitive Corp play everyone needs a squad backing him up, even snipers on distant hilltops should be receiving various forms of teamwork and squad support. Without strong synergistic team play a Corp can expect to lose most competitive battles.
- I"m no averse to a bit of a price bump in the militia forge, I think the stats are about right but there is clearly quite the gap in ISK invested verses returns provided when used by characters/players with equal skill. Removal seems completely excessive, and the CPU/PG stats you quote for a change are pretty extreme when you look at the total amount of either provided by dropsuits. Doubly true since the militia heavy already has limitations (as you noted) thus further reducing the possible on field value of a "pure militia" AV forge fit. The real problem with the militia forge is in high level characters using it as a cheap spam-able option, and a tweak in price should mitigate that sufficiently. As to players without supporting skills, the lack of those skills and the limitations of running militia forge + militia heavy are sufficient to maintain a reasonable curve as compared to other forge guns.
The real issue is that vehicles are on average slightly to moderately too fragile when compared with their cost in ISK and SP.
In prior builds this was less true due to their higher damage output (honestly excessively high in the case of things like OHK missile splash), but with the recent rebalance of turrets, and reduction in base CPU a light touch up (buff) to their average HP curve is warranted. Such a touch up would also reduce the effective value of the militia forge for high level play (which is reasonable) and thus address your concerns about it diminishing the value of a merc who's specialized into that role.
0.02 ISK
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.01.06 06:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:DarkShadowFox wrote:If only they went the route of BF3 :P
Ahhh Have fun in eve514 guys
Dark~ You mean playing obsessively for a week and a half leaving you maxed out in everything? No thank you sir, I would like to have a game that has long-term playability behind it instead of merely the hot thing until the next MAG/COD/Blackops/Halo/insertwhateverhere comes out. If this game is successful, it will garner updates, new weapons, new structures, new dropsuits and a permanently dedicated DEV team who's sole purpose in life is to make the game better and to add yet more ways for us to slaughter each other and kill EVE players. I wait with baited breath for the day someone realizes I'm accepting orbital strike requests from both sides of a groundfight and shooting at everyone with sadistic glee. Edit: and then uses orbital defenses to pop my ship. THEN I will call DUST awesome.
^This
o7 Breakin Stuff |