DUST Search - Laser rifles are OP, it seems.

Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous wrote:

The dark cloud wrote:

lolwrothy topic. The standard/advanced lasers are basically identical. The only difference is that the Elm-7 overheats at around 16 rounds left in the clip while standard does it on 20. Thats not really a point for using the Elm-7 (advanced) that requires more CPU/PG/ISK for such a tiny advantage. And dont forget both weapons have the same identical damage (15HP). The base damage with the viziam is 20 but it goes very fast up the more heat that thing is building up. And lasers have beeing changed on this build cause the advanced and proto overheat much quicker then they did before. However the skillbook itself does nothing even though its supposed to lower the heat up rate. The main reason why you think the laser is overpowred is because you cant fight it on medium-long range with a AR. And for people saying they drop fast here is the answer:
scouts= minimal health and very easy to kill (like they do against any weapon)
assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers
heavys= slow and big targets, very easy to keep the beam on them
Logis= die a bit slower then scouts cause they have as usual less health then assaults

oh and if you see a laser guy dont try to play peek a boo over range. The laser usually will win. And now about something different.
Who on earth came up with the Heavy+Laser combo? That is one of the worst fits ive ever saw on this game apart from heavy shock and heavy with a shotgun.

Very well said dark... let me just highlight something exxtrraa large thats kinda key here:

assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers
assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers
assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers

The main reason why you think the laser is overpowred is because you cant fight it on medium-long range with a AR.

There are maaanyyy different facets to this game, people thinking too simple... this is not your typical FPS that needs every weapon to be similiar. It is a more team focused game meaning where you may lack your allies can cover you.

However i would argue you can actually fight medium range with AR, but perhaps the term medium range is somewhat subjective

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Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2012.12.24 03:30:00 - [31] - Quote In my own opinion, the prototype version is incredibly overpowered, but the other two models work as they should.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.12.24 03:56:00 - [32] - Quote lolwrothy topic. The standard/advanced lasers are basically identical. The only difference is that the Elm-7 overheats at around 16 rounds left in the clip while standard does it on 20. Thats not really a point for using the Elm-7 (advanced) that requires more CPU/PG/ISK for such a tiny advantage. And dont forget both weapons have the same identical damage (15HP). The base damage with the viziam is 20 but it goes very fast up the more heat that thing is building up. And lasers have beeing changed on this build cause the advanced and proto overheat much quicker then they did before. However the skillbook itself does nothing even though its supposed to lower the heat up rate. The main reason why you think the laser is overpowred is because you cant fight it on medium-long range with a AR. And for people saying they drop fast here is the answer: scouts= minimal health and very easy to kill (like they do against any weapon) assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers heavys= slow and big targets, very easy to keep the beam on them Logis= die a bit slower then scouts cause they have as usual less health then assaults oh and if you see a laser guy dont try to play peek a boo over range. The laser usually will win. And now about something different. Who on earth came up with the Heavy+Laser combo? That is one of the worst fits ive ever saw on this game apart from heavy shock and heavy with a shotgun.
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.12.24 03:59:00 - [33] - Quote or we could reduce the range to where its a medium range, making it more BALANCE like they did to AR's, only sniper rifles should shoot long ranges.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:02:00 - [34] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: lolwrothy topic. The standard/advanced lasers are basically identical. The only difference is that the Elm-7 overheats at around 16 rounds left in the clip while standard does it on 20. Thats not really a point for using the Elm-7 (advanced) that requires more CPU/PG/ISK for such a tiny advantage. And dont forget both weapons have the same identical damage (15HP). The base damage with the viziam is 20 but it goes very fast up the more heat that thing is building up. And lasers have beeing changed on this build cause the advanced and proto overheat much quicker then they did before. However the skillbook itself does nothing even though its supposed to lower the heat up rate. The main reason why you think the laser is overpowred is because you cant fight it on medium-long range with a AR. And for people saying they drop fast here is the answer: scouts= minimal health and very easy to kill (like they do against any weapon) assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers heavys= slow and big targets, very easy to keep the beam on them Logis= die a bit slower then scouts cause they have as usual less health then assaults oh and if you see a laser guy dont try to play peek a boo over range. The laser usually will win. And now about something different. Who on earth came up with the Heavy+Laser combo? That is one of the worst fits ive ever saw on this game apart from heavy shock and heavy with a shotgun. Here's my problem: I run logistics, but I still end up with a combined total of 450 HP, and I was killed from 2 seconds of sustained fire from a proto laser rifle. Yes, I was at his optimal range, yes, I was out in the open and should have expected to die, but 2 seconds is nothing, even if I had been standing an inch from cover, there still wouldn't have been time to get away.
slap26 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 462	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:02:00 - [35] - Quote DarkShadowFox wrote: or we could reduce the range to where its a medium range, making it more BALANCE like they did to AR's, only sniper rifles should shoot long ranges. max range is only around 82m or something
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:08:00 - [36] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: if anything lasers need a buff, along the lines of still being effective at close range, its not exactly easy to keep the laser on ppl at close range so why not reward that with similar dmg to an AR. Yes, let's make them ARs V2 because they currently have a weakness which prevents them from being OP. That makes complete sense.
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:27:00 - [37] - Quote Alright well how about they make some different variations of the same weapon like other weapons for example a breach laser rifle, it rapidly looses beam strength at long range but melts at close range and is average at medium? or Assault Laser Rifle, fires its beam in pulses inefficient at long and short range but excels at medium?
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:32:00 - [38] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Alright well how about they make some different variations of the same weapon like other weapons for example a breach laser rifle, it rapidly looses beam strength at long range but melts at close range and is average at medium? or Assault Laser Rifle, fires its beam in pulses inefficient at long and short range but excels at medium? We already have a weapon that is efficient at close range, it's called a shotgun, and the same goes for the medium range idea, that's an assault rifle.
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:38:00 - [39] - Quote The game has 4 different main factions that all have different approaches to combat, there is plenty of room for additional weapons/variations, if you'd be foolish to think the line up we have now is complete. Bottom line is in eve i've always loved amarrian ships and weapons, and I'm dying for a laser assault rifle, scrambler AR will probably do the trick, but i kinda like beams. I'm well aware of the existence of shotguns, but i prefer a weapon that takes skill to use.
Shane Darko ZionTCD Legacy Rising 11	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:41:00 - [40] - Quote I would not touch the stats on laser rifles right now,not even with a 10 foot poll.

Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:42:00 - [41] - Quote TLDR "it killed me, nerf it"
Kosen Driago WarRavens 25	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:43:00 - [42] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: The dark cloud wrote: lolwrothy topic. The standard/advanced lasers are basically identical. The only difference is that the Elm-7 overheats at around 16 rounds left in the clip while standard does it on 20. Thats not really a point for using the Elm-7 (advanced) that requires more CPU/PG/ISK for such a tiny advantage. And dont forget both weapons have the same identical damage (15HP). The base damage with the viziam is 20 but it goes very fast up the more heat that thing is building up. And lasers have beeing changed on this build cause the advanced and proto overheat much quicker then they did before. However the skillbook itself does nothing even though its supposed to lower the heat up rate. The main reason why you think the laser is overpowred is because you cant fight it on medium-long range with a AR. And for people saying they drop fast here is the answer: scouts= minimal health and very easy to kill (like they do against any weapon) assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers heavys= slow and big targets, very easy to keep the beam on them Logis= die a bit slower then scouts cause they have as usual less health then assaults oh and if you see a laser guy dont try to play peek a boo over range. The laser usually will win. And now about something different. Who on earth came up with the Heavy+Laser combo? That is one of the worst fits ive ever saw on this game apart from heavy shock and heavy with a shotgun. Here's my problem: I run logistics, but I still end up with a combined total of 450 HP, and I was killed from 2 seconds of sustained fire from a proto laser rifle. Yes, I was at his optimal range, yes, I was out in the open and should have expected to die, but 2 seconds is nothing, even if I had been standing an inch from cover, there still wouldn't have been time to get away. If you were getting shot in the head for 2 seconds why not? I think Laser rifles are really something that shows how good of a player somebody is. They are best at long ranges, but still dont have the range of siper. Plus, think about the heat build up, and the way you must maintain a continuous beam on the target to get maximum damage output while remaining mindful of your clip of ammo. I mean, having a standoff against somone with an AR in their maximum effective range vs me with a LR, I've found is still an extremely hard battle to win. Really, just about any weapon could seem overpowered in the right players hands.... Some people have learned how to use them now, but it's still a pretty niche weapon if you ask me.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 428	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:45:00 - [43] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Sobriety Denied wrote: ADD RECOIL NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Recoil on a laser. Man, I wish everyone in our community was this brilliant. Dig the Sarcasm. Anyways, Lasers are light energy not Kinetic. Go back to 7th grade Science and pass the class, please. Don't even bring Newton into this because that rule doesn't apply here. Edit: Oh oh oh. Ho ho ho. Troll. Got me.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2012.12.24 04:45:00 - [44] - Quote Lasers are maybe the best balanced weapons in the game. They have drawbacks, but once you learn how to use them, really effective.
Marston EV Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.12.24 05:17:00 - [45] - Quote come on guys, i just got out of a match with the ELM and i went 45 - 0........ lasers rifles are..... i want to say there OP but its true that there TERRIBLE close range, viziams are ok, but because of how pinpoint the laser is, its hard to actually get a continuaul shot on someone whos in your face. I compensate for this by being great with my toxin smg :) But i mean lets be real here, the laser rifles might be a litttttttleeee OP. I really dont know how they could fix that though. The weapon is designed to deal out a TON of damage long range. they could possibly put a cap to how much damage it could charge to, but even that might not help it too much. idk.... as much as i want to say the weapon is OP i really cant tell if its just because im good with it, it actually is OP, or if the people i shoot at just dont know how to deal with the situation properly.
Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous SyNergy Gaming 242	Posted - 2012.12.24 05:30:00 - [46] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: lolwrothy topic. The standard/advanced lasers are basically identical. The only difference is that the Elm-7 overheats at around 16 rounds left in the clip while standard does it on 20. Thats not really a point for using the Elm-7 (advanced) that requires more CPU/PG/ISK for such a tiny advantage. And dont forget both weapons have the same identical damage (15HP). The base damage with the viziam is 20 but it goes very fast up the more heat that thing is building up. And lasers have beeing changed on this build cause the advanced and proto overheat much quicker then they did before. However the skillbook itself does nothing even though its supposed to lower the heat up rate. The main reason why you think the laser is overpowred is because you cant fight it on medium-long range with a AR. And for people saying they drop fast here is the answer: scouts= minimal health and very easy to kill (like they do against any weapon) assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers heavys= slow and big targets, very easy to keep the beam on them Logis= die a bit slower then scouts cause they have as usual less health then assaults oh and if you see a laser guy dont try to play peek a boo over range. The laser usually will win. And now about something different. Who on earth came up with the Heavy+Laser combo? That is one of the worst fits ive ever saw on this game apart from heavy shock and heavy with a shotgun. Very well said dark... let me just highlight something exxtrraa large thats kinda key here: assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers The main reason why you think the laser is overpowred is because you cant fight it on medium-long range with a AR. There are maaanyyy different facets to this game, people thinking too simple... this is not your typical FPS that needs every weapon to be similiar. It is a more team focused game meaning where you may lack your allies can cover you. However i would argue you can actually fight medium range with AR, but perhaps the term medium range is somewhat subjective
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.24 07:15:00 - [47] - Quote So... as someone's who's experimented with Laser Rifles on one of my alts, and found them completely terrible and barely worth the use... No, they aren't OP. It's just that, because they require SP investment and are something other than a point-and-shoot weapon like ARs, players who skill into them usually either drop them quickly on realising they're hard to use, or feel obliged to get the most out of their SP investment and actively focus on learning how to use them to great effect. Because of the nature of the weapon, most players who underperform with Laser Rifles stop using them, leaving only the skilled users who show off the potential of the weapon. I think Laser Rifles are probably the weapon least likely to be found in the hands of someone who's bad with that weapon.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.12.24 07:18:00 - [48] - Quote Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous wrote: The dark cloud wrote: lolwrothy topic. The standard/advanced lasers are basically identical. The only difference is that the Elm-7 overheats at around 16 rounds left in the clip while standard does it on 20. Thats not really a point for using the Elm-7 (advanced) that requires more CPU/PG/ISK for such a tiny advantage. And dont forget both weapons have the same identical damage (15HP). The base damage with the viziam is 20 but it goes very fast up the more heat that thing is building up. And lasers have beeing changed on this build cause the advanced and proto overheat much quicker then they did before. However the skillbook itself does nothing even though its supposed to lower the heat up rate. The main reason why you think the laser is overpowred is because you cant fight it on medium-long range with a AR. And for people saying they drop fast here is the answer: scouts= minimal health and very easy to kill (like they do against any weapon) assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers heavys= slow and big targets, very easy to keep the beam on them Logis= die a bit slower then scouts cause they have as usual less health then assaults oh and if you see a laser guy dont try to play peek a boo over range. The laser usually will win. And now about something different. Who on earth came up with the Heavy+Laser combo? That is one of the worst fits ive ever saw on this game apart from heavy shock and heavy with a shotgun. Very well said dark... let me just highlight something exxtrraa large thats kinda key here: assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers assaults= 90% of the time they focus on shields and with that they are extreme weak against lasers The main reason why you think the laser is overpowred is because you cant fight it on medium-long range with a AR. There are maaanyyy different facets to this game, people thinking too simple... this is not your typical FPS that needs every weapon to be similiar. It is a more team focused game meaning where you may lack your allies can cover you. However i would argue you can actually fight medium range with AR, but perhaps the term medium range is somewhat subjective Had a guy once trying to take me (heavy+HMG) with a laser, while i was getting ammo at the supply depot. Quickly changed over to a throwaway heavy+laser combo. He never expected that.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 391	Posted - 2012.12.24 07:24:00 - [49] - Quote The only change that needs to happen is for there to be a stacking penalty for damage mods. This would drop alot of laser user's dps by 10-20%. people seem to always overlook that glaring bug but it is responsible for many weapons seeming OP when they actually arent. by the end of their mag a LR will be doing insane amounts of damage, so if you just fizzle away into nothing without much of a warning odds are they heated up the gun before getting to you. Many people also don't know how to fight lasers, either.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.12.24 08:23:00 - [50] - Quote Kiiran-B wrote: I'm trying to find out if I'm being killed by an OP weapon or if I'm facing reall reall good players becaus it honestly feels the first. and I'm not going waste SP on something I don't want. Fair enough on your point about the recoil, but I wasn't meaning recoil like the AR has, just like the cross hair sways around a bit because I thought it was plasma or something like that. Just gave laser to my alt char. Took some 12k SP. You don't need any more to get basic LR, and the basic LR is already pretty good. Actually, you're criticizing from the wrong angle, because you haven't tested it. At the moment it is both the strength AND the weakness that the LR skill tree does pretty much nothing for the laser's use: it is ready to use right away BUT you don't get any useful skill bonuses for it other weps get. The skill tree might need looking into.

DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1899	Posted - 2012.12.24 08:26:00 - [51] - Quote They didn't seem as strong because ARs could combat them at range, taking out their primary strength. I think lasers are a bit too strong though as it is, and probably need more balancing, but I couldn't say what.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.12.24 08:30:00 - [52] - Quote DarkShadowFox wrote: or we could reduce the range to where its a medium range, making it more BALANCE like they did to AR's, only sniper rifles should shoot long ranges. You haven't tested the LR, we see. LR has LESS range than an assault rifle. It hits 0% eff, no damage point earlier than basic AR.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.12.24 08:33:00 - [53] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Here's my problem: I run logistics, but I still end up with a combined total of 450 HP, and I was killed from 2 seconds of sustained fire from a proto laser rifle. Yes, I was at his optimal range, yes, I was out in the open and should have expected to die, but 2 seconds is nothing, even if I had been standing an inch from cover, there still wouldn't have been time to get away. Before your 2 seconds of dying the laser has been warming up for 5 seconds to reach that dps level. Plenty of warning time for well-aware players, usually. And it would have to stop shooting very soon after that.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.12.24 08:43:00 - [54] - Quote After all my above replies correcting false assumptions (which might seem fanatic defense of someones fav gun) I'm actually going to admit the damage increase towards end of firing cycle may be a bit too high. But I remind everyone, the very end of the firing cycle is very hard to use - most smart bogeys are in cover for that period waiting to rush out. Also, I'm soon writing a suggestion for alternative heating model as the curret is quite redundant with the ammo clip size. Which would handicap anyone maximizing a great firing position.
Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 95	Posted - 2012.12.24 09:05:00 - [55] - Quote Instead of rushing them get a LR friend of yours to suppress him and take out his shields at long range get a MD and finish his armor off. You see lazors take out shields explosives take out armor :D
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.12.24 09:19:00 - [56] - Quote Aren't lasers meant to be strong against Shields but weaker against Armor? I don't see it xD Dark Cloud still wipes me out instantly. A while ago me and Hughes were fighting him, Hughes stepped out in his Proto Suit with something like 400 shields 350 armor and died within seconds.. It was pretty lulzy. Unfortunately Cloud seems to pack Shield Extenders over Damage Mods and managed to take a thale to the chest with no issue, then hid and we lost a thale. :( I understand why you'd believe a Laser is OP, it's frustrating to be killed so quickly but it's not OP. Getting close means instadeath for a Laser user. Watch someone like Cloud and see what he does, he'll constantly retreat to his optimal range, using a LAV most of the time. To the guys defending the Laser Rifles, stop being ******* assholes, simple as that. Explain your playstyle, help newer players understand why it isn't actually OP. Is it really that hard?
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 809	Posted - 2012.12.24 09:23:00 - [57] - Quote KryptixX wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: NO It only has high damage in long range, at close range the damage is terrible. Just because you know someone who is very skilled with the weapon does NOT mean that its overpowered. you dont need to be skilled, all you need to do is strap 3+ damage mods on and hold the dot over the target for 3 seconds. How is this any different than any other weapon?
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.24 10:00:00 - [58] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: To the guys defending the Laser Rifles, stop being ******* assholes, simple as that. Explain your playstyle, help newer players understand why it isn't actually OP. Is it really that hard? Ok i dabble in lasers on my assault suits. i run a raven assault suit with shield tank, which is exceedingly vulnerable to lasers. Lasers suck vs. Armor tank. why? Because its CCPs EVE formula. Shields are weakest vs. EM and Thermal damage EM being the biggest shield buster in CCPs games. Thermal is number 2. lasers do EM and thermal damage. shields are strongest versus explosive and kinetic damage. Armor tank is the opposite, weak versus explosive and kinetic, very resistant to EM and thermal. Most guns in EVE do a primary and secondary damage type and i see no reason for that pattern to not hold true to a greater or lesser extent. Swarms, for example, use explosive. worthless versus shields but turn armor to chutney. railguns and blasters do kinetic/thermal, meaning thet tend to be middle road. decently effective vs both armor and shields in equal measure. bullets do kinetic, do slightly less to shields, do more to armor. Now that the TL;DR part is over i do well with lasers because I only made the mistake of trying to shoot someone close twice. If someone can hit you efficiently with either a shotgun or a SMG you are waaaay too close for using a laser and need to swap to your sidearm. because an AR will kill you rather efficiently while the laser will take the full clip and not break shields in close. Effective usage of the laser requires a distance of NO LESS than 25 meters. any closer and you are hosed. As you aim with the laser, you will burn off 3/4ths of your magazine into a single assault suit. this is normal. the upshot is, as your heat level rises your weapon becomes a searing beam of righteous death. the downside is your own weapon can kill you if it heats up too much. Do not engage in sniper duels with a laser unless the sniper is aiming at someone else. He outranges you. Heavies are hit or miss. if the heavy is armor tanked, kiss your merry ass goodbye. hes one of the few things rigged to thoroughly kick your ass, so use your SMG. Dont try to shoot your laser at someone through cover. walls still stop your shots. armor tanked vehicles are your bane. run away. if you are using a laser and a raspberry stands still, light him up and giggle because hes toast. if he runs around on open ground sweep the beam over him a few times and watch him crisp. Real life note. The USMC bashes into its infantrymens' heads to always find cover. This rule applies to DUST! Finally, if you are using a laser and a scout suit bursts around a corner in your face, accept the reality that you will be purchasing a new laser, and dropsuit fitting, shortly.
Blunt Smkr Doomheim 62	Posted - 2012.12.24 11:06:00 - [59] - Quote I think its kinda op cause of how long u can fire befor it overheats u can just mow people down. Maybe if they made it overheat faster n make the damage build up a little faster to match. so that way u have a better chance to close the distance on the laser cause he has to wait on the cooldown more often.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2012.12.24 11:12:00 - [60] - Quote Kiiran-B wrote: It's weird that everyone moaned that the assault rifles were OP due to their high damage, pin point accuracy, zero recoil, and yet no one argues the point that last rifles have all of this and more. And if anyone disagrees, go face The Dark Cloud and then come back. And I'm not singling him out, any laser rifle kills a lot of players (personal experience). Don't they have a temperature build up or a slow building recoil? If so I'll shut my mouth, but if not they need fixed. I support the use of the word balance and not nerf; I supported the balancing of the ARs and I'm an AR devotee. The Dark Cloud with a Viziam is more commonly referred to as "The Death Star".



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