Thank you for the info. I couldnt try it out last night, didnt get enough time after downloading the new build. I get very distracted with so many active modules. After reading the post i think i will still keep my previous fittings with minor changes to the turrets. if railguns can shoot faster and unleash an extra shot in less time then i would also have to think about my drive-by strategies with the tortoise. How bad is the new MT forge gun?

Base damage 1200 and 3.5 charge time

Add in weapon lvl5 skill for extra damage and anyone who has gone infantry and skilled into weapons has a nice decent AV weapon

I expect them to be around alot more because ppl who run infanty already have weapon lvl5 for the extra damage and its a quick change at a supply depot or a quick spawn in a cheap AV fit

That would mean that i'm totally screwed if i end up going near Supply depots... With the skinweave heavy suit it should be even cheaper. I lost quite a lot of armor tanks, 3 surya's trying and testing out different loadouts. Hows the control for driving tho? I dont use a KBM so its not that precise.

English,

We had a squad in game vs Aldin in a Surya last night and he was tanking DPS just fine against 2 Militia Swarms and a Proto Swarm hitting multiple times at the same time. Granted when we finally were able to hit him with the a few in very close succession it forced him to fall back a bit but he was never really in ZOMG run mode.

There are likely still some deficiencies for lesser skilled tankers but based on what I saw with Aldin's Surya it is still pretty beast in the right hands and with the appropriate skills.


I would have like to have hit him with 2 or 3 proto swarms at a time to see the alpha impact but alas a couple of us, including myself, were AV gimps jumping into starter fits just to see what we could do in addition to one proto swarm..

Armor speed got nerfed again this build IDK why tbqh
we already suffered movement penalty for adding plates and now the penalty got INCREASED?

seems like every build i gotta redo armor tanking and adapt
certainly does seem CCP wants armor to camp up on hillsides miles away from the objective and tbqh that aint my style i like to support my infantry and with suryas gettin a bonus to blasters WHY would i want to stay miles away and camp when i could be directly supporting infantry?

still playin around with my armor fits on my madrugar.....dont feel like callin in my suryas to get hit by lolswarms especially since it seems once ur caught in the open u'll take ages to move to a safe zone

I didn't understand why they made the armor tank - which is extremely slow - have the short range gun bonuses.. Where the fast tank has the long range gun bonuses... seems counterintuitive.

Armor speed got nerfed again this build IDK why tbqh
we already suffered movement penalty for adding plates and now the penalty got INCREASED?

seems like every build i gotta redo armor tanking and adapt
certainly does seem CCP wants armor to camp up on hillsides miles away from the objective and tbqh that aint my style i like to support my infantry and with suryas gettin a bonus to blasters WHY would i want to stay miles away and camp when i could be directly supporting infantry?

still playin around with my armor fits on my madrugar.....dont feel like callin in my suryas to get hit by lolswarms especially since it seems once ur caught in the open u'll take ages to move to a safe zone

I tested mine of the 3pt bowl map

I did have like 6ppl all with swarms no forge guns shooting at me and it was a mixture of milita/advanced and 1 proto swarm

I had a DC on and all 3 armor resists on and the armor rep and i got caught mainly because i couldnt move fast enough

Also my skill are perfect that i know of for all tanks i just decided to throw it into the lions den to test it out with the new mods on and i really wasnt impressed with it, i could have played super careful but it needed to be tested and as a tank it didnt feel like a tank still

Also tho did he change his tank in anyway? was he using the new mods? what map was he on and what was he doing with his tank? tbh your telling me a story but as far as i know he was be careful with it and it had a 10k armor tank on it with a spider tanking lav or guys with reppers

Telling me half the story tbh

i guess the thought process is for armor to advance with infantry and sit on a point and be able to soak up a ton of punishment
but thing is very few tankers even play like that

and last time i tested the active nos boosts it really didnt help that much so unless those got a buff backin out of a tricky situation is gonna be slower and more risky

[quote=Jaiden Longshot]English,

We had a squad in game vs Aldin in a Surya... (stuff)
I tested mine of the 3pt bowl map

I did have like 6ppl all with swarms no forge guns shooting at me and it was a mixture of milita/advanced and 1 proto swarm

on AV:

i am not too worried about there being a militia forge. I skilled up the forge this build and if people like the forge they will spend some SP into it.

Having said that, I am not sure what the point of swarms are. I havent used them since the E3 (I think, the vehicle spam one) build and just started to skill into them now at Level 4. They dont seem as balanced as in that build (as in worse) they act more as denial of area weapon - your thoughts?

Have missile turrets been buffed to be useable at all?

I tested mine of the 3pt bowl map

I did have like 6ppl all with swarms no forge guns shooting at me and it was a mixture of milita/advanced and 1 proto swarm

I had a DC on and all 3 armor resists on and the armor rep and i got caught mainly because i couldnt move fast enough

Also my skill are perfect that i know of for all tanks i just decided to throw it into the lions den to test it out with the new mods on and i really wasnt impressed with it, i could have played super careful but it needed to be tested and as a tank it didnt feel like a tank still

Also tho did he change his tank in anyway? was he using the new mods? what map was he on and what was he doing with his tank? tbh your telling me a story but as far as i know he was be careful with it and it had a 10k armor tank on it with a spider tanking lav or guys with reppers

Telling me half the story tbh

That's what i prefer doing too. But as i mentioned earlier, Blue dots rarely use that to their advantage.

on AV:

i am not too worried about there being a militia forge. I skilled up the forge this build and if people like the forge they will spend some SP into it.

Having said that, I am not sure what the point of swarms are. I havent used them since the E3 (I think, the vehicle spam one) build and just started to skill into them now at Level 4. They dont seem as balanced as in that build (as in worse) they act more as denial of area weapon - your thoughts?

Have missile turrets been buffed to be useable at all?

Couldn't tell you how he was fit other than it was a blaster fit Surya with either active reppers or minor logi support. I didn't see anything that would support spider tanking.

It was the 4 Point map that we've had in most of the builds with A & B on the attacker side and C & D under the covered structures and piping over A & B. He brought the blaster fit Surya up under the pipes and just beyond the building by A so essentially he was almost pushing the red line when we got some elevation to the right of 'A' just on the attacker side of the buidling when we started hitting him with the swarms.

He did have AR support that wouldn't let us continue chasing him after the first two sets of volleys.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that tanks are OP or anything. Frankly, I'm tired of nerfs when we have very little organized large scale battle data with logi support to determine what is or isn't OP. I'm just saying that a good tanker is a good tanker and currently they can survive a decent amount of DPS in the right hands, as they should.

Is it balanced with the replacement cost....errr, that's something that you, Alldin and Slap26 could comment on better than I could.

Can you sit out in the open and tank 6 swarmers hitting you at the same time? Probably not....but should that be feasible?

4pt map quite big a few places where you are safe aslong as you control the map or have a gd hand on it

Sounds like he would have some good cover if im thinking where he was at

Im guessing his fit is about 2.1mil give or take, now my fit is around that mark also and the ability to tank 6 swarms with a 2.1mil fit is unbalanced because for that amount of ISK it should be able to tank a bit but tbh it didnt, really the hull are too expensive but during the half price vehicle thingy it felt around right HAVs being 600k and i did see more tanks about because more ppl could afford to run them and risk them a little bit

A tank is ther to take damage from various sources but frankly it didnt, tanks are missing that tank ability in my view and the cost isnt really worth it

Very true. I would use a blaster all the time. It brings me closer to the enemy. But swarms mostly being able to lock on behind covers and jumping and shooting rockets (Militia or upper tier) and forge guns doing more damage than railguns, i dont know if i would want to risk the hard earned 2mil + tanks. the payout is just not good enough. If i loose one, it would take me 10 matches to cover up the loss if i (given i run militia gear)

Just my opinion but it feels like CCP is still trying to find the balance between a tanking fit and a DPS fit. Generally speaking you would expect a tank to well "tank" but my guess is they are trying to strike the balance between an alpha DPS tank and an active/passive tank with less alpha DPS.

This way you have tanks fit for anti-infantry with a little better tanking but not capable of that crazy alpha DPS or you have that crazy alpha DPS for AV and tank v tank while sacrificing a little of the active/passive tanking ability.


Similar to what infantry has to deal with from a fitting perspective. This way tanks do need some kind of support be it logi or infantry rather than a one man wrecking crew just with the primary turret dealing DPS and actively/passively tanking any DPS that is thrown its way.

Now you factor in the cost and it creates a whole new balance issue. In some respects I feel bad for tankers because it is a long train (I did it last build)....and it is extremely costly to drop tanks. I feel a little less sympathy when getting pwned in public matches when it is a little difficult to organize a proper counter. Not an easy balancing act, to be sure.

Look at the result of the AR changes. It makes very little sense to use Prototype or advanced gear now that you get very similar performance from standard gear....unless you are just bathing in ISK

Its AV right now, swarms need to be fixed which annoys armor tanks so much more and also but i dunno if CCP will do this but a handheld railgun cannot be stronger than a large vehicle mounted railgun

Also maybe make tanks have a bit more base hp so battles are a little bit longer but if not maybe make a 4man tank driver and 3 gunners and make that the price that tanks are now and drop the 3man tank to half price