Long and short is "Nothing yet"


DUST's market right now is a very trimmed down, simplified version of what it will be. Dust's market will be EXACTLY the same market as EVEs soon, as in you'll be able to buy and trade EVE modules\ships from your merc quaters just like an EVE player will be able to trade merc's guns to maximize profits.

that would mean that you would have to be Eve backed to play this game. Which I am not saying is a bad thing, i just dont see how the 24v24 or lower player battles stop people stomping down on those below (my example of people turning to militia fits) as no alliances will work in battle.

Are you expecting at launch that we will have influence over Eve's market? I thought CCP didnt want Dust to have such an impact yet on Eve as a protective measure for their main IP.


@Sha: will do.

Perhaps not right off the bat but the markets will slowly merge over time until they're indistinguishable. This is only to protect EVEs hyper sensitive market, not DUSTs, I should point out.

And yes, the Nullsec space belongs to alliances, as do the planets. If you want to fight on the planets in their regions, you're going to need their backing from other sizeable alliances to fund and equip you (Remember, there is no market out there).

The game we play now is how empire space will work, I believe. Just a normal online FPS. There is faction warfare, where I imagine everyone will play "normally" this is where you fight for one of the 4 major empires over each others space and earn rewards for both you and EVE pilots. EVE Pilots also help fight over space. NullSec is alliance warfare and will be funded 100% by the alliance, for the alliances.

there is no market in null sec?

My problem with the market is no matter how i try to in vision it , it always seems like the Dust player will get screwed and the Eve player will always be rewarded. I dont think CCP will implement crafting in Dust and if they do its really is coding in the wrong direction of Dust completely. When that time and code could of been used to improve the battlefield itself.

So the way the system is setup now Dust players will always be at the mercy of Eve prices. I dont understand why certain player bases want to re create Eve instead of using it as a step in stone. The market , the politics, the empires are all in Eve already lets just use them.

When i saw the trailer for Dust , I got the idea that Mercs would be private armies for Eve Corporations. The Eve Corp would craft , do the politics of where they wanted a planet attacked, and if we felt we were being abused or screwed we could move to the next corp or if we sucked could be dismissed from the corp.

As i told CCP when you Take a job you dont pay for your chair,desk,paper,pens,pencil,computer,mouse,keyboard,printer, and so forth. In addition, since you have to buy these same things hundreds of times really doesn't inspire you to push a losing battle just quit or sniper hill it.

It's interesting to see FPS players argue against economic expansion (from their point of view) with the exact same argument that anti-WiS Eve players use...

In Dust you aren't a private army for an Eve alliance, you're a mercenary (corp) taking jobs. You have to pay for your own equipment, so why not make your own equipment? (Then you say "why not sell some of that stuff I made", and suddenly you've got a player-run economy!)

I am trying to understand how the economy stays balanced in Eve from mining to warfare, so I can try and understand how it will work in Dust.

What interested me about dust was that is built off the back of Eve, which is player driven in terms of game development but alliances that can determine the economy/ market/ and game.

I have never played Eve so I am only going on how it works on what I have read on these forums and on other internet posts.

My primitive understanding is that Eve is basically economic warfare. There is mining that creates value, alliances that protect that value; and the assets that create that value. And when wars between alliances occur, itGÇÖs the extended (weak) logistic/ supply lines and sov areas that are attacked first etc. to cause economic pain.

Battles in Eve can be on large scale involving 200? Ships etc.

This allows not just numbers to come into affect but cheap fits zerg/ blob onto high-end ships which can take them out etc. This enables a balancing affect to stop the rich just taking everything. It also opens up larger strategies and tactics that can be initiated. Though I realise those that have the isk are more likely to do damage GÇô as they can continue to reinforce.

But there is no balanced economic model in Dust. Is there?

If there is no mining where does new revenue come from.

Paying via arum in this closed eco system would be a bit like printing your own money without the risk of inflation. And can become a P2W option to reinforce the line (FYI I am not against cash being used in this game). And why would you P2W to save a battle GÇô just trying to show that option.

If battles occur in pub, factional, or corp matches and one side is losing they drop to militia suits say to conserve isk. They continue to be beaten by using GÇÿinferior gearGÇÖ (but ok they save ISK). This creates a continual transfer of ISK to one side of those groups (I know its not that straight-forward).

And because battles are not going to be high in numbers (24 max? going on previous comments on this forum) and large GÇÿswarmGÇÖ numbers are not going to be an option. The balancing factor from eveGǪbuilding alliances, mining, resources etc. doesnGÇÖt seem to come into play.

Sorry, I havenGÇÖt explained myself very well.

TLDR: the economy in EVE has a number of mechanisms to make it work. DustGÇÖs seems highly constricted/ vertical market where it can become a continual beatdown to those lower down the rung as better gear (+Sp) is a dominant factor as part of an RPG game and in battle (yes I know its not about fair).

Or I am I completely misunderstanding how the Dust economy would work and how Dust is intended to play/ fit in the Eve universe?

stuff

In EvE.

I hope any dust "mining" is the "mining with guns" removed from eve, shoot rogue drone and recycle the metal from the wreck to salvage minerals at end of battle. It makes sense for a shooter to differ from eve here.

If you joined up with your fellow goons we could actually provide you with way more information on this than anyone else can, we've got a lot of tools and data that other people don't have. Especially considering i gave you the Beta key to sign up.

xAckie if your interested in this I would be happy to have a quiet chat with you about it. Lot of respect for your corp and if I can help out by answering a few questions quietly I would be happy to help.

Just mail me when you see me online.

As for the rest of you I really wouldnt worry about the markets and things thats just boring stuff for nerds.

One good ting about EVE involment is that a big and strong merc corp cant hold all the medium corp down just due to more income, we can have income in Dust and EVE , it will be hard to predict how strong other merc corp are isk wise. I also expect that plex is also coming to dust.

Its going to be very interesting.

but it doesn't help those who are not part of an Eve backed corp. What I am thinking here is that there will be a number of new players who come in and have no idea about eve etc, and with Dust only having FW to begin with means that they will be continually be stomped by Eve backers - as there is no mechanism like in eve to provide a balancing effect (be it some form of ISk creation other than contracts, swarm tactics in milita fits (due to smaller number of player battles allowed in Eve etc..

If thats the case its going to be hard to keep these players and get them involved.

Long Story Short.

Whole idea of economic warfare is to starve the enemy of all resources.

This is currently not feasible in Dust 514 as losses are trivial to easy replacement, where sinking 100 battleships in eve with minimal losses would be a much higher factor in economic losses.

While true you may blow up one guys murader 5x in a match and set him back for a long while, there is nothing stopping him from getting that murader, no bottle necks no supply chain, and defiantly no materials.

There are many approaches to making economics enjoyable for shooter players without taking so much away from the shooting aspect, IE go raid so and so's mining facility so we can get all the materials we need for this build order. Hack so and so lab for his blueprints ect ect.