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Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
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Posted - 2012.12.02 14:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
Not all of that's true, it's perfectly possible to have trade hubs in 0.0, we've got the biggest and best market in Nullsec over in VFK and we've got most everything you need there.
With the right planning and set up you can achieve anything in EVE which is the beauty of it.
Also EVE will not be where prices are set for Dust items, it won't work simply due to the difference in the volume of ISK available. Dust is meant to be an ISK sink and if EVE players produce and sell items for us they will be earning ISK from Dust, not taking ISK out of the economy which is the intention. |
Washlee
UnReaL.
131
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Posted - 2012.12.02 15:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
What Im predicting is that when the game is fully released , An Eve player will hire you or your corp to fight or defend a base (Obviously theres going to be different game modes) When you enter the game the Eve player supplys you with his own HAV's LAV,s Aircrafts weapons etc
And if you are able to complete the objective you get a lumpsome of ISK |
Dezus 1000
Reaper Galactic
13
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Posted - 2012.12.02 19:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
To start I am hoping Planetary Interaction plays a large role to Dust corps. EVE corporations offering contracts to conquer planets producing valuable commodities would be great. Right now EVE builds, operates, and owns these facilities. Maybe at some point they can be sold to Dust corps and consequently give Dust 514 a larger role in the galactic economy. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 20:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
Great questions, xAckie. And lots of interest by lots of peeps too. What we've seen so far is only the bare bones of DUST, just enough to beta test the core mechanics, the game balance, and a few other things - the important foundations, for sure, but NOT what DUST will be about at all.
Firstly, the market is a wild beast, it has no rules. It is the same market that exists in the real world, but with NO regulation, NO domestic or international law, NO recourse, NO justice. This is New Eden's market, subject only to the vagaries of her immortal pod pilots. The market is blind and heartless, and plays no favorites.
But raw resource distribution in New Eden is rigged. Right now it's only the mega-alliances who hold moon minerals, especially technetium, who can afford the supercapital fleet composition required to hold the moons and engage in nullsec manufacturing. This is not by accident, it's classic positive feedback, a self-perpetuating dynamic that won't change until CCP changes it. This dynamic has led inexorably to the stagnation of nullsec in EVE.
For us Mercs, that means a couple of things. If CCP changes nothing, we will be relegated to hisec pubmatches and losec faction warfare. In the long run, we may get hired to affect sov timers in nullsec, but we will forever be the employees of EVE alliances.
If CCP does decide to shake things up(and they have been thinking long and hard about how to accomplish this), it will mean that we Mercs somehow gain access to the existing moon minerals in meaningful quantities, or some other equally valuable resource, or that we control some vital part of the prospecting/mining/refining/production chain. My hope is that top-end resource extraction/refining/manufacturing will require Pilots and Mercs to work together in several Prisoner's Dilemma scenarios to maximize profits.
There is only one market in New Eden, so the question for Mercs comes down to: How much wealth will we control? And the answer depends solely on CCP, and the ideas and feedback we give them.
There's a lot more that could be said, but it's all secondary to the preceding. We will have access to resources, we will manufacture, some important things we will co-manufacture with Eve Pilots. But it all comes down to who's got the bigger iskies.
If the EVE alliances are smart, they'll keep us mercs uneducated, poor and starved for resources. If some of us get some gumption they should eliminate and/or co-opt our leadership. Then they can use us as cheap labor to extract our OWN resources from our OWN territories to fuel their military-industrial machine. I know this sounds like crazy-talk, but i've heard such a thing is possible. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 22:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:
But raw resource distribution in New Eden is rigged. Right now it's only the mega-alliances who hold moon minerals, especially technetium, who can afford the supercapital fleet composition required to hold the moons and engage in nullsec manufacturing. This is not by accident, it's classic positive feedback, a self-perpetuating dynamic that won't change until CCP changes it. This dynamic has led inexorably to the stagnation of nullsec in EVE.
If the EVE alliances are smart, they'll keep us mercs uneducated, poor and starved for resources. If some of us get some gumption they should eliminate and/or co-opt our leadership. Then they can use us as cheap labor to extract our OWN resources from our OWN territories to fuel their military-industrial machine. I know this sounds like crazy-talk, but i've heard such a thing is possible.
Thanks Vrain. Very informative. I have lots of questions - too many to ask. But two things struck me from above. First, what do you mean by stagnation in null? Do you mean the positive feedback is making the game stale?
Second, if we are just cheap labour for eve in the above example it sounds like you think we will have little ability to affect Eve. i am basing this on the thought that apparently there are thousands of planets that can be conquered and mined and Eve, so the ability of a corp to take a planet to extract minerals etc will not be that special. But i might have mis-understood the number of planets / availability of required minerals etc. but then you mention 'moon minerals'. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 00:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
This thread makes me feel like I was reading a textbook :D. It seems like a whole lot speculation and the devs just needs to chime in and tell us exactly how everything is going to work (unless they don't know themselves) |
Senor Rabbit
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.12.03 01:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
The thing about EVE and DUST is economic value is driven by the bad fortune of players more than any other game. You risk losing your equipment which increases demand to replace it. Things like WoW gear for example require repairs as a cash sink but otherwise have no need to be reproduced outside of meeting a shrinking demand. Even with EVE's insurance system, you don't get the item back - just a partial cash refund. As such in EVE (and DUST by extension), there's always demand for specific items since everything is player produced and needs to be put back into the system when it is eventually lost/destroyed. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 06:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
grrrr....forum ate post. bad forum. back later. |
Dust Goon
Doomheim
22
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 13:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Great questions, xAckie. And lots of interest by lots of peeps too. What we've seen so far is only the bare bones of DUST, just enough to beta test the core mechanics, the game balance, and a few other things - the important foundations, for sure, but NOT what DUST will be about at all.
Firstly, the market is a wild beast, it has no rules. It is the same market that exists in the real world, but with NO regulation, NO domestic or international law, NO recourse, NO justice. This is New Eden's market, subject only to the vagaries of her immortal pod pilots. The market is blind and heartless, and plays no favorites.
But raw resource distribution in New Eden is rigged. Right now it's only the mega-alliances who hold moon minerals, especially technetium, who can afford the supercapital fleet composition required to hold the moons and engage in nullsec manufacturing. This is not by accident, it's classic positive feedback, a self-perpetuating dynamic that won't change until CCP changes it. This dynamic has led inexorably to the stagnation of nullsec in EVE.
For us Mercs, that means a couple of things. If CCP changes nothing, we will be relegated to hisec pubmatches and losec faction warfare. In the long run, we may get hired to affect sov timers in nullsec, but we will forever be the employees of EVE alliances.
If CCP does decide to shake things up(and they have been thinking long and hard about how to accomplish this), it will mean that we Mercs somehow gain access to the existing moon minerals in meaningful quantities, or some other equally valuable resource, or that we control some vital part of the prospecting/mining/refining/production chain. My hope is that top-end resource extraction/refining/manufacturing will require Pilots and Mercs to work together in several Prisoner's Dilemma scenarios to maximize profits.
There is only one market in New Eden, so the question for Mercs comes down to: How much wealth will we control? And the answer depends solely on CCP, and the ideas and feedback we give them.
There's a lot more that could be said, but it's all secondary to the preceding. We will have access to resources, we will manufacture, some important things we will co-manufacture with Eve Pilots. But it all comes down to who's got the bigger iskies.
If the EVE alliances are smart, they'll keep us mercs uneducated, poor and starved for resources. If some of us get some gumption they should eliminate and/or co-opt our leadership. Then they can use us as cheap labor to extract our OWN resources from our OWN territories to fuel their military-industrial machine. I know this sounds like crazy-talk, but i've heard such a thing is possible.
Dust won't have any impact on Moon mining at all, Ring mining is being phased in eventually and moon mining is being given the boot, there's no way Dust will be able to effect the mining of resources of a ring around a planet. Maybe with skyfire arty but that will be about it. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 14:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dust Goon wrote:Vrain Matari wrote: Stuff...
Dust won't have any impact on Moon mining at all, Ring mining is being phased in eventually and moon mining is being given the boot, there's no way Dust will be able to effect the mining of resources of a ring around a planet. Maybe with skyfire arty but that will be about it. Agreed, ring mining is coming, but the argument stays the same. This is why I think ultimately mercs will get access to Tech or something equally valuable on planets.
And there's any number of mechanics where you could insert DUST-based industry into the T2 resource extract/refine/react/manufacturing chain. If DUST-based industry could make any one of those steps 10% more efficient nullsec dynamics would change instantly.
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