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Repe Susi Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 249	Posted - 2012.11.28 08:14:00 - [1] - Quote I didn't think I would ever make a post like this, since I'm what you call a happy-player. Pretty casual and not too worried about the finer points of gameplay. Just like to have fun you know. But. How the hell I am supposed to manage to survive, or, even, dare I say it, kill a heavy, especially upper tier ones with my assault-fit?? My adv. AR doesn't even dent their shield to be honest. Grenades? Yeah, no. They just shrug'em off. I know, from a distance, right? Well no. Heavies are supposed to be slower but I can't even outrun them when they start raining bullets at me. HMG's do have pretty formidable range also whatwith the specializations and all. I have shield modules and not too bad suit but it's under a second and I'm down when facing a heavy with HMG. Literally, under a second. Yesterday was especially bad. You can't kill em, you can't outrun em. What do? I know this has been discussed to death but I just felt I should put up a post about this.
dudeytron Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 69	Posted - 2012.11.28 08:26:00 - [2] - Quote I run as a heavy and as you've pointed out, distance is a major disadvantage to an heavy. If you can manage to get first shots on a heavy, whilst at a distance, you stand a good chance. But close quarters, you're toast. I personally feel things are balanced, even though I do die to standard militia AR, because of the range thing.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.28 08:30:00 - [3] - Quote Heavies have some fairly obvious flaws. Shields may be strong, but they're VERY slow recharging. Even a well-buffed Heavy will regain shields slower than an un-modded Militia Assault. Wear them down, use your superior shield regen by taking cover when your shield is low, reload and recharge, then pop out again. HMGs have shorter effective range than ARs, so getting close ISN'T a good idea with that weapon. If you can't outrun them, you're running the wrong way. Don't run directly AWAY when you're close, run to COVER, and HIDE. They might get annoyed at you being a "coward" but they'll still hide from tanks and think it's fair enough. Also, sprinting PAST an enemy while in really close range can keep you out of their firing arc and give you time to break line of sight and recover.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.11.28 08:58:00 - [4] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Heavies have some fairly obvious flaws. Shields may be strong, but they're VERY slow recharging. Even a well-buffed Heavy will regain shields slower than an un-modded Militia Assault. Wear them down, use your superior shield regen by taking cover when your shield is low, reload and recharge, then pop out again. HMGs have shorter effective range than ARs, so getting close ISN'T a good idea with that weapon. If you can't outrun them, you're running the wrong way. Don't run directly AWAY when you're close, run to COVER, and HIDE. They might get annoyed at you being a "coward" but they'll still hide from tanks and think it's fair enough. Also, sprinting PAST an enemy while in really close range can keep you out of their firing arc and give you time to break line of sight and recover. Meh, there's a few problems with all this. 1) HMG received a massive range boost and they're not as bothered mid-range as they're supposed to. 2) HMG are supposed to get accurate over time when firing them. Atm, even first bullets hits every time, even at mid-range. Result, i dont see any HMG over-heat as there's no need to use the accuracy gain over-time. 3) Difference in speed between assault and heavies is now perfectly ridiculous since the movement nerf. I really dont feel their heaviness when fighting them anymore. Especially as a lot of Heavies pretty use T2 variant. 4) The slow turning speed of heavies, supposed to give a chance even at close range to very mobile units is a MYTH. 5) The current lag in games is simply awfull (unrelated but felt like sayin it anyway)
Higgs flagrantfool 3dge of D4rkness Industrials 27	Posted - 2012.11.28 09:04:00 - [5] - Quote You wouldn't think that this needs explaining but: Vs. heavy long to mid rang: laser rifle any suit (1 man) Vs. heavy mid to close rang: assault rifle any suit (2 or more men) Vs. heavy close range: shotgun scout suit (1 man - learn to kite use environment/obstacles to your advantage) So the question is: why are you trying to take down heavys, by your self, with an AR/assault suit? Think of the reality of the situation. He's got four times the fire power that you have and probably two or more times the hit points. Ponder that for a minute, then during your next solo encounter, proceed to run away as fast as you can. Class dismissed.
Belgarion TheGodSlayer Doomheim 0	Posted - 2012.11.28 09:19:00 - [6] - Quote Higgs flagrantfool wrote: You wouldn't think that this needs explaining but: Vs. heavy long to mid rang: laser rifle any suit (1 man) Vs. heavy mid rang: assault rifle any suit (2 or more men) Vs. heavy close range: shotgun scout suit (1 man - learn to kite use environment/obstacles to your advantage) So the question is: why are you trying to take down heavys, by your self, with an AR/assault suit? Think of the reality of the situation. He's got four times the fire power that you have and probably two or more times the hit points. Ponder that for a minute, then during your next solo encounter, proceed to run away as fast as you can. Class dismissed. +1
GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2012.11.28 09:54:00 - [7] - Quote There is only a hand full of good heavies in this game, other than that just learn to do the heavies dance and do the old classic bunny hop. Honestly, with a some gun game, you can rule heavies at close range. Just gotten learn to lead them in the dance and once they start following you, it is to late for them to do anything.
Repe Susi Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 249	Posted - 2012.11.28 10:05:00 - [8] - Quote Higgs flagrantfool wrote: You wouldn't think that this needs explaining but: Vs. heavy long to mid rang: laser rifle any suit (1 man) Vs. heavy mid to close rang: assault rifle any suit (2 or more men) Vs. heavy close range: shotgun scout suit (1 man - learn to kite use environment/obstacles to your advantage) So the question is: why are you trying to take down heavys, by your self, with an AR/assault suit? Think of the reality of the situation. He's got four times the fire power that you have and probably two or more times the hit points. Ponder that for a minute, then during your next solo encounter, proceed to run away as fast as you can. Class dismissed. Maybe my first post wasn't clear enough. I really am NOT trying to take heavies by myself. If all, I try to avoid them to the last bit. But you must know that some encounters cannot be avoided. If you bothered to read the first post, I can't outrun them either. And I feel that if I end up vs. heavy I should have at least little bit of a chance versus him even if it is me running away. Laurent Cazaderon put up very good post detailing the situation. Well, live and learn. Or rather, die.
Higgs flagrantfool 3dge of D4rkness Industrials 27	Posted - 2012.11.28 10:46:00 - [9] - Quote Repe Susi wrote: If you bothered to read the first post, I can't outrun them either. And I feel that if I end up vs. heavy I should have at least little bit of a chance versus him even if it is me running away. Hay, I never said that you would make it, but it looks like you need lesson number 2: 1. If you round a corner and there is a heavy stairing you in the face (you obviously weren't paying attention to your radar or onscreen enemy indicator because heavys show up quite nicely on both) you're dog meat pal, just accept it. 2. At mid range I have never had a problem getting away from a lone heavy in an assault suit, so I'm not following you here at all. Here are the the speed stats: Assault type-1 speed: 5.0/7.0 mps Heavy type-2 (the fast one) speed: 3.9/5.5 mps Now thats quite a huge difference. You're probably just having some kind of technical issues (operator error most likely) Close range: logi/assault = SOL Mid range: logi = SOL, assault = very good chance. What you need to do is pay more attention to your radar and learn to anticipate/look before you leap. I can tell you I am not at all experiencing the problems you are describing, so I have no choice but to chalk it up to operator error.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.11.28 11:40:00 - [10] - Quote Here is something interesting than many of the ones defending HMG\Heavies probably ignore Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 59m Optimal Range: 1 - 34m Meta Level: 1 Assault Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 80m Optimal Range: 1 - 49m Meta Level: 2 Burst Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 59m Optimal Range: 1 - 36m Meta Level: 2 MH-82 Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 62m Optimal Range: 1 - 38m Meta Level: 5 'Broadside' MH-82 Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 66m Optimal Range: 1 - 40m Meta Level: 7 Those range are measure without sharpshooting skills. And optimal range of ANY HMG is better than most ARs. Max Range as well. Now, tell me if this makes sense ? To me it doesnt. HMG are a spread weapon. They're supposed to be used in short range to spray over a kinda wide area and those HMGs in DUST have the perk to become more and more accurate. Their damage are fine, they SHOULD mow down people stuck in it for too long. But why this damn long range ? When i see in comparison the range of SMG it just makes me sick. On Heavies suit, they should be what they truly are. Damn freakin slow, damn freakin tough. I'd say MORE HP, Less MOVEMENT.

Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2282	Posted - 2012.11.28 11:43:00 - [11] - Quote Heavies are easy to deal with tbqh HMG buff was a good buff imo Caz Heavies need to be feared but not invincible and i think thats where they are somewhat at now. Heavies at mid range should lose to a smart Assault player who can aim anytime. Dont let them close the gap too much if they do dance around them and like Giz said there are only a few actually good heavies on this game tbh
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.11.28 11:49:00 - [12] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Heavies are easy to deal with tbqh HMG buff was a good buff imo Caz Heavies need to be feared but not invincible and i think thats where they are somewhat at now. Heavies at mid range should lose to a smart Assault player who can aim anytime. Dont let them close the gap too much if they do dance around them and like Giz said there are only a few actually good heavies on this game tbh I disagree. The range stats on HMG are self-explanatory. I dont say the buff wasnt needed. But AS ALWAYS, CCP buffed too much. Just like they nerfed too much the HAV HP and res, boosted too much SL and FORGE at the same time. Then nerfed too much missile etc... HMGs needed MAINLY a damage buff. Wich they got. But the range buff ? Why in hell ? And regarding heavies, i never said they're invincible, i'm just saying they're too close too logi\assault in terms of movement. When you see the difference of looks, you'd expect something much more noticeable. Especially regarding straffing. Made the comparison, and heavies straf at the exact same speed as my assault. Doesnt make sense.
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2012.11.28 11:51:00 - [13] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Here is something interesting than many of the ones defending HMG\Heavies probably ignore Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 59m Optimal Range: 1 - 34m Meta Level: 1 Assault Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 80m Optimal Range: 1 - 49m Meta Level: 2 Burst Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 59m Optimal Range: 1 - 36m Meta Level: 2 MH-82 Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 62m Optimal Range: 1 - 38m Meta Level: 5 'Broadside' MH-82 Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 66m Optimal Range: 1 - 40m Meta Level: 7 Those range are measure without sharpshooting skills. And optimal range of ANY HMG is better than most ARs. Max Range as well. Now, tell me if this makes sense ? To me it doesnt. HMG are a spread weapon. They're supposed to be used in short range to spray over a kinda wide area and those HMGs in DUST have the perk to become more and more accurate. Their damage are fine, they SHOULD mow down people stuck in it for too long. But why this damn long range ? When i see in comparison the range of SMG it just makes me sick. On Heavies suit, they should be what they truly are. Damn freakin slow, damn freakin tough. I'd say MORE HP, Less MOVEMENT. You don't use a heavy suit do you? Have you tried to shoot someone 50m away with a HMG? It is nowhere near effective enough to kill a good player. What some people don't seem to realise is that heavies are supposed to beat you every time in a 1 v 1 fight. That is the whole point of them. Take advantage of our slow turn speed, take advantage of our slow movement, take advantage of our slow shield/armour regen and for the love of god don't try to solo a heavy unless your an experienced player. 2 guys running militi starter fits can take down a heavy if they're smart enough to circle you, each going a different way, as the time it takes to turn, shoot, do a 180 and shoot again is plenty of time to take us down.
Higgs flagrantfool 3dge of D4rkness Industrials 27	Posted - 2012.11.28 12:11:00 - [14] - Quote ^^^ Ya, the spread is far to wide to do any real damage at mid range, and death (or, most of the time, even armor loss) can be easily avoided by simple cover and evasion tactics.
v3k3v Imperfects Negative-Feedback 24	Posted - 2012.11.28 12:14:00 - [15] - Quote At first assumption I would say heavies are OP.. but then.. since they are the only thing that fack me up im biased. If you play smart the role of a heavy able to melt you if your surprised by one around the corner is your own fault. I think maybe the RANGE should be reduced some. It seems a heavy spraying bullets everywhere shouldnt be very accurate. They should be used intelligently with a few AR guys guarding him.
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 82	Posted - 2012.11.28 12:27:00 - [16] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Heavies are easy to deal with tbqh Heavies need to be feared but not invincible and i think thats where they are somewhat at now. Heavies at mid range should lose to a smart Assault player who can aim anytime. QFT
Repe Susi Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 249	Posted - 2012.11.28 12:30:00 - [17] - Quote Higgs flagrantfool wrote: 1. If you round a corner and there is a heavy stairing you in the face (you obviously weren't paying attention to your radar or onscreen enemy indicator because heavys show up quite nicely on both) you're dog meat pal, just accept it. I remember one encounter very clearly even though it was some time ago. Line Harvest map (4 obj.) We were defending B, and between B and the nearest supply depot there are 2 walls and the enemy was coming from that direction. There was not any kind of indicator on radar nor onscreen. I was rounding the first wall near B and BOOM. Shot in the face by HMG. Now, I did made the check for red dots before I went but somehow the enemy heavy had gotten behind that wall without anyone seeing him. I don't know how he got there, maybe he was even using profile dampeners, I don't know. But my point is; you just can't 'check the radar' because that doesn't tell you everything. Maybe I should start spending on Scanning analysis or what was it.. Well, this is starting to trail off altogether. Thanks everybody. I got my rant and I heard good points from both sides.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.28 12:42:00 - [18] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Heavies have some fairly obvious flaws. Shields may be strong, but they're VERY slow recharging. Even a well-buffed Heavy will regain shields slower than an un-modded Militia Assault. Wear them down, use your superior shield regen by taking cover when your shield is low, reload and recharge, then pop out again. HMGs have shorter effective range than ARs, so getting close ISN'T a good idea with that weapon. If you can't outrun them, you're running the wrong way. Don't run directly AWAY when you're close, run to COVER, and HIDE. They might get annoyed at you being a "coward" but they'll still hide from tanks and think it's fair enough. Also, sprinting PAST an enemy while in really close range can keep you out of their firing arc and give you time to break line of sight and recover. Meh, there's a few problems with all this. 1) HMG received a massive range boost and they're not as bothered mid-range as they're supposed to. 2) HMG are supposed to get accurate over time when firing them. Atm, even first bullets hits every time, even at mid-range. Result, i dont see any HMG over-heat as there's no need to use the accuracy gain over-time. 3) Difference in speed between assault and heavies is now perfectly ridiculous since the movement nerf. I really dont feel their heaviness when fighting them anymore. Especially as a lot of Heavies pretty use T2 variant. 4) The slow turning speed of heavies, supposed to give a chance even at close range to very mobile units is a MYTH. 5) The current lag in games is simply awfull (unrelated but felt like sayin it anyway) 1. HMG range is longer than it used to be, but still well short of the effective range on your AR. 2. First bullet hits almost every time, but there's still enough spread to give you time to fire a couple of bursts and take cover. 3. Difference in MOVEMENT speed is huge, difference in turning speed, not so much. 4. In older builds, there were differences between suits' turning speeds. That got pretty much eliminated somewhere along the way. I don't know when. Rushing past an enemy at close range works against ANYONE, even Scouts, if you do it right. Unless you're armour tanking, Assaults can sprint faster than opponents can turn when you're in close enough. Rush past on the right angle, and you'll get behind the target. If you try taking time to line up on them, you'll probably end up just making yourself a target again, but use it to get into cover and the enemy will lose you. And you're ignoring the key advantage that Assault have - SHIELD REGEN. None of your points address that advantage, and none of your points - even if all of them were true - negate the fact that if you take cover, your shields WILL start to recover first, and WILL recover faster. Don't try to run directly AWAY from the enemy. Fire a few bursts, duck behind something, let your shields regen, and repeat. Heavies tend to think of themselves the same way you do - they FEEL invincible, so they don't bother to approach a situation with quite as much caution as Scouts and Assaults often have to. Chip away at their shields, get into cover, regenerate your own shields, and you can open fire again while the Heavy has only barely started to recover from the last round of attacks. They'll be gradually losing shields, and you'll be recovering completely between encounters.
steadyhand amarr Imperfects Negative-Feedback 338	Posted - 2012.11.28 12:46:00 - [19] - Quote A heavy role is to chew u up and spit u out an assault role it to take and hold jobbies basicly hit a point and move on. Ever seen a heavy run between points cuz it's like duck hunting then. Both classes are working as intended just going to have face to the fact sometimes your just gunna lose
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 349	Posted - 2012.11.28 13:03:00 - [20] - Quote only broadside hmg needs a nerf everything else is fine. all your theories are based on a hmg heavy not taking into consideration the assault heavies or the forge gunners. this thread is full of fail because your examples are so broadly covered when in fact your main problem is the hmg itself. heavy with a forge gun should be no problem for assault. if you are dying then I put it to you that you just suck and it doesn't matter what class you are up against, you were meant to be in the negative kdr bracket. complaining about heavies in general is like scouts complaining about assault. heavies as an outfit = balanced. broadside HMG = world + dog knows this is op. but if you guys keep QQ'ing about heavies instead of the broadside all you will do is mess up the balance even more.

HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2242	Posted - 2012.11.28 13:26:00 - [21] - Quote The broadside is a proto weapon and is the only gun we have to choose from that is effective. It is certainly not overpowered. We have been nerfed every build this is the first time the heavy got a buff in its weapon only. It still takes near 200 bullets to kill anything because of the spread and misses. What people don't realize is that after one encounter we are very vulnerable not only from hp but ammo, then we have to reload for 8 seconds and are reduced to a smg. If you guys only new how many times we die from running out of ammo. This is what keeps it balanced. There are many assault guys who can chew me up faster in a 1v 1 in cqc. Because there weapons do more damage accurately. If you die to a heavy it is from a mistake you made getting to close or you got snuck up on or you have no friends. The heavy has many weakness I will give you one. If you happen to get into a close cqc run straight past him throw an elbow and use your turn speed to stay ahead of ours. You can out turn us and take us out.
Konohamaru Sarutobi Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 91	Posted - 2012.11.28 13:28:00 - [22] - Quote Repe Susi wrote: I didn't think I would ever make a post like this, since I'm what you call a happy-player. Pretty casual and not too worried about the finer points of gameplay. Just like to have fun you know. But. How the hell I am supposed to manage to survive, or, even, dare I say it, kill a heavy, especially upper tier ones with my assault-fit?? My adv. AR doesn't even dent their shield to be honest. Grenades? Yeah, no. They just shrug'em off. I know, from a distance, right? Well no. Heavies are supposed to be slower but I can't even outrun them when they start raining bullets at me. HMG's do have pretty formidable range also whatwith the specializations and all. I have shield modules and not too bad suit but it's under a second and I'm down when facing a heavy with HMG. Literally, under a second. Yesterday was especially bad. You can't kill em, you can't outrun em. What do? I know this has been discussed to death but I just felt I should put up a post about this. Well, Tactical Assault Rifles work pretty well (in my opinion) against heavies suits. It's not bad if you run when you see an enemy, i mean, you don't need to run to the first red point that you see in your radar. If you see a heavy run and get distance, then shoot him. Be carreful, they usally use LAVs to move fast,
NAV HIV The Generals 151	Posted - 2012.11.28 13:32:00 - [23] - Quote M1 grenades: 2, Shotgun (Any type) : try to unload the full clip and finish it off with a Melee or two... Success rate: 80%. Try a Type 1 AR dropsuit with a decent sheild regen...
NAV HIV The Generals 151	Posted - 2012.11.28 13:36:00 - [24] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: The broadside is a proto weapon and is the only gun we have to choose from that is effective. It is certainly not overpowered. We have been nerfed every build this is the first time the heavy got a buff in its weapon only. It still takes near 200 bullets to kill anything because of the spread and misses. What people don't realize is that after one encounter we are very vulnerable not only from hp but ammo, then we have to reload for 8 seconds and are reduced to a smg. If you guys only new how many times we die from running out of ammo. This is what keeps it balanced. There are many assault guys who can chew me up faster in a 1v 1 in cqc. Because there weapons do more damage accurately. If you die to a heavy it is from a mistake you made getting to close or you got snuck up on or you have no friends. The heavy has many weakness I will give you one. If you happen to get into a close cqc run straight past him throw an elbow and use your turn speed to stay ahead of ours. You can out turn us and take us out. Agreed. Heavy's are not OP. They do exactly what they are meant to do. What would be the point of a Heavy if a scout could take them out with an AR? People should stop complaining and moaning over "OP this and OP that" and try and find an alternative way.
Terram Nenokal BetaMax. 115	Posted - 2012.11.28 14:17:00 - [25] - Quote I feel heavies having an advantage over AR fit assault suits is intended. A shotgun scout can tear a heavy in half at close range, and if you're running with a squad, you can easily take down a heavy by flanking him or by chipping away at him as you regen behind cover. Their suits are also more expensive to fit, so that makes me feel a little better about it.
NAV HIV The Generals 151	Posted - 2012.11.28 14:32:00 - [26] - Quote Terram Nenokal wrote: I feel heavies having an advantage over AR fit assault suits is intended. A shotgun scout can tear a heavy in half at close range, and if you're running with a squad, you can easily take down a heavy by flanking him or by chipping away at him as you regen behind cover. Their suits are also more expensive to fit, so that makes me feel a little better about it. I feel better if they are running Proto
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2012.11.28 15:53:00 - [27] - Quote This threads a joke lol I run a Type-B heavy with proto AR guns so that 'distance' wouldn't be a problem. I should be a buffed up assault soldier with no movement, but any 1v1's with an assault proto suit usually has me losing it. Everything in this thread about Heavies being OP should be true, we're suppose to be mini tanks, but this complaint of us not dying, you must be either awful, your hit detection is broken, or your blind to your kills. If the build actually doesn't buff heavies soon in survivalbility by at least a small margin, you're going to see every elite player going proto assault. Proto assault shields are nearly impossible to take down, they're fast, and with proto weapons deadly as hell. We really do turn too slowly to keep up with proto assault players who run in on us and dance around. It's painful enough trying to aim, it's even more painful to know every one of there shots will probably land, and not just because I'm a slow son of a gun, but a fat one whose got more mass to aim at." Isn't there enough QQ threads? If I was to cry about somethin, it would be the price us heavies have to pay to use proto gear that sucks.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.11.28 16:20:00 - [28] - Quote lol silly OP, aim for the head
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2012.11.28 16:38:00 - [29] - Quote I'm going proto heavy once more on next build. Loved the heavy back then on E3 build and I will certainly use the vk. 1 on next build.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2012.11.28 16:39:00 - [30] - Quote Heavies were the bane of my existence when running as a logistics. I figure its a similar problem to being an assault. The last few days I've been trying out shotgun scout and I've killed several of them including their assault team escort which has been fun. Either be a long way from them or get in their face. Granted, I burn through a lot more scout suits than I did as a logi.

MassiveNine Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 100	Posted - 2012.11.28 16:56:00 - [31] - Quote People also need to remember that a good heavy with cover can take out a whole squad easily if he knows what he's doing. I've done it a few times . But really, I think heavies are probably one of the best balanced suits in the game besides the ****** expensive guns. I'm running a class A and i have no complains =D What kills me the most is lazer rifles, as HowDidThatTaste has stated before, I've died many a slow sizzling death to a lazer rifle that caught me between objectives. To the OP, I think that was me you turned into. It happens a lot more than you think, actually. Especially when I'm sitting on an objective protecting it, it's easy to pick off AR guys that come blazing around the corner thinking they own the place. I've also got lv.3 sharpshooter so I've got a pretty decent reach as well. I like surprising AR guys that think they are out of range.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.11.28 17:02:00 - [32] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: I'm going proto heavy once more on next build. Loved the heavy back then on E3 build and I will certainly use the vk. 1 on next build. E3 heavies, oh god the flashbacks Did have a few 1v1s with a proto heavy on comms in E3 which consisted of me kiting him with a scout suit and a sniper all match.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.11.28 17:06:00 - [33] - Quote Repe Susi wrote: You can't kill em, you can't outrun em. What do? I stabbed and meleed a few with success. Does that help?
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.11.28 18:01:00 - [34] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: The broadside is a proto weapon and is the only gun we have to choose from that is effective. It is certainly not overpowered. We have been nerfed every build this is the first time the heavy got a buff in its weapon only. It still takes near 200 bullets to kill anything because of the spread and misses. What people don't realize is that after one encounter we are very vulnerable not only from hp but ammo, then we have to reload for 8 seconds and are reduced to a smg. If you guys only new how many times we die from running out of ammo. This is what keeps it balanced. There are many assault guys who can chew me up faster in a 1v 1 in cqc. Because there weapons do more damage accurately. If you die to a heavy it is from a mistake you made getting to close or you got snuck up on or you have no friends. The heavy has many weakness I will give you one. If you happen to get into a close cqc run straight past him throw an elbow and use your turn speed to stay ahead of ours. You can out turn us and take us out. As much as I hate to admit it the Broadside has to go. It does proto damage with advanced fitting and I'm pretty sure CCP said that it was an error, along with the Codewish Duvolle Tac rifle, and it will be fixed at some point. As a matter of principle all AUR items really do have to have equivalent ISK variants. Like you said, that will take away our (I use that loosely as I tend to run assault more than heavy now) only really good option. Not really sure what the will do to the class. And for the person who said learn to bunny hop: Yes, that is a wonderful tactic against a heavy and you will always win because of it. Please continue to do it as soon as I open up on you since I have never been able to kill a single player in mid-air with my HMG. Not a single one ever. Nope...never happened.
Renzo Kuken Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 369	Posted - 2012.11.28 18:34:00 - [35] - Quote flux grenades and heavy explosives killing heavies isnt supposed to be a solo job you need to get fire on them from multiple angles if ya hate heavies so much just get a cpl squad mates and go heavy hunting have nice day
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2012.11.28 19:05:00 - [36] - Quote Heavies can definitely be a tough nut to crack at times especially the ADV ones however there are good tricks you can do that will take them out most of the time. #1. Pretty obvious....try not to run into them at point blank range if you do then you will probably die unless there is cover really close by if not chalk it up to bad luck #2. When attacking a heavy make sure there is cover of some kind you can use and let you shields recover over time. Try to take their sheilds out in the first attack phase otherwise their shields will recharge as well. #3. If a heavy is chasing after you then toss nads so that they land in areas where the heavy is going to turn a corner to attack you. ADV nades are wonderful against heavies and usually if you place them right they will run right into them. #4. Taking on a heavy is a multiple attack phase proposition for a single assault player. Do not expect to take them out in 1 go. After shields are down hide recharge and reload then pop out again (even if your shields are not fully recharged). You have to whittle away at their armor. Aim for the head or upper torso when taking out armor......shields dont seem to matter as much as long as you hit the shield but the difference in the armor dmg is significant. #5. Do not take the advice to run past a heavy....unless they are an idiot their turn speed is almost identical to your own and you wont win unless you were running past him to get to a spot with cover you can use. #6. When when attacking at range try to attack from cover because (despite what they say here) the HMG does amazingly good dmg even at the ARs effective ranges. I have hit heavies at extreme range on my AR and they where hitting me and took me almost down to no shields before I took down all of their shields. That is not much difference for the range I was firing at them. #7. Dont "dance" against a heavy instead straff in 1 direction and be willing to use your jump...your jump increases your straff movement while in the air and its better to use this so that you can make it to cover. Expect to die if you are out in the open in a medium range battle as you have no cover to move to. Taking on heavies is where I really wish you got to keep what you kill. I know when I take out some heavies in ADV I just destroyed a suit that was over 100K but I rarely see the benefit in my payments at the end of the match. You actually get more money by taking out a bunch of militia suits quickly because you get more WPs and the ISK payment is based on WPs not what you have personally killed.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.28 19:56:00 - [37] - Quote Heavies are not overpowered. We die quite easily, actually, with just a little teamwork brought against us. My Heavy toon costs $50,000 a respawn, and he dies an average of 4-5 times a game... And I usually go 7-8 kills, so I barely break even.
MassiveNine Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 100	Posted - 2012.11.28 20:02:00 - [38] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: Heavies are not overpowered. We die quite easily, actually, with just a little teamwork brought against us. My Heavy toon costs $50,000 a respawn, and he dies an average of 4-5 times a game... And I usually go 7-8 kills, so I barely break even. I average about 25/5 a game as a heavy.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2012.11.28 20:03:00 - [39] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: Heavies are not overpowered. We die quite easily, actually, with just a little teamwork brought against us. My Heavy toon costs $50,000 a respawn, and he dies an average of 4-5 times a game... And I usually go 7-8 kills, so I barely break even. I average about 25/5 a game as a heavy. sounds bout right, but not with a suit that only costs 50,000 isk. For a heavy, that's cheap as hell.
MassiveNine Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 100	Posted - 2012.11.28 20:21:00 - [40] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: MassiveNine wrote: J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: Heavies are not overpowered. We die quite easily, actually, with just a little teamwork brought against us. My Heavy toon costs $50,000 a respawn, and he dies an average of 4-5 times a game... And I usually go 7-8 kills, so I barely break even. I average about 25/5 a game as a heavy. sounds bout right, but not with a suit that only costs 50,000 isk. For a heavy, that's cheap as hell. Yea, it's cheap, but it's just at the level where I'm not really saving isk. whatever I make I spend on suits I'm not really going anywhere my number stays the same in the bank ha. my suit is a bit more than that though. Gold suits baby.

Drommy Hood Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 242	Posted - 2012.11.28 22:08:00 - [41] - Quote Don't fight with heavies. Assassinate them. If you fight fairly with something that has greater HP and greater dps, your unlikely to win. So don't fight fairly, fight smart. 90% of heavies I've killed haven't even seen me. Flank, sneak into optimal, murder. Any thing else is suicidal, either because your fighting fair, or using cover and grinding them down too slowly and backup/randomer arrives.
supersayinb Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.11.28 22:18:00 - [42] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: lol silly OP, aim for the head Yup, and their head's are huge.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.11.28 22:42:00 - [43] - Quote Repe Susi wrote: I didn't think I would ever make a post like this, since I'm what you call a happy-player. Pretty casual and not too worried about the finer points of gameplay. Just like to have fun you know. But. How the hell I am supposed to manage to survive, or, even, dare I say it, kill a heavy, especially upper tier ones with my assault-fit?? My adv. AR doesn't even dent their shield to be honest. Grenades? Yeah, no. They just shrug'em off. I know, from a distance, right? Well no. Heavies are supposed to be slower but I can't even outrun them when they start raining bullets at me. HMG's do have pretty formidable range also whatwith the specializations and all. I have shield modules and not too bad suit but it's under a second and I'm down when facing a heavy with HMG. Literally, under a second. Yesterday was especially bad. You can't kill em, you can't outrun em. What do? I know this has been discussed to death but I just felt I should put up a post about this. Couldn't agree more. Once heavies start leveling up, they are practically walking invulnerable tanks. And once they level up sharpshooter, they have some pretty decent range. Even with my Gek-38, two 10 % damage mods, AR proficiency to level 3, sharpshooter level 4 and some other skills maxed out that help dish out damage for an AR... a lot of these heavies are untouchable to me. I can't even take down their shields with a full clip at a pretty close range, and that is where they are weak... if I land constant headshots, I can drop their shields, but by the time I reload I have no chance at stripping their massive armor value while being pummeled by their minigun. Not really sure how they could address this problem, maybe they should make heavies lockable by swarms (doesn't help the AR player though). Perhaps a more realistic fix could be to severely reduce the effective range on the minigun, to the point that the damage drops exponentially at a certain point (much less than it is now). So unless they are right on top of you, the AR range will be able to damage them more than they can damage you. Cause as it stands now, the better range for the AR is useless against these heavy-tanks. The AR damage drops pretty quickly with range, so the already near-impossible to kill in close range heavy, is even more impossible to kill with the damage loss at range for an AR.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2012.11.28 22:46:00 - [44] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: Repe Susi wrote: I didn't think I would ever make a post like this, since I'm what you call a happy-player. Pretty casual and not too worried about the finer points of gameplay. Just like to have fun you know. But. How the hell I am supposed to manage to survive, or, even, dare I say it, kill a heavy, especially upper tier ones with my assault-fit?? My adv. AR doesn't even dent their shield to be honest. Grenades? Yeah, no. They just shrug'em off. I know, from a distance, right? Well no. Heavies are supposed to be slower but I can't even outrun them when they start raining bullets at me. HMG's do have pretty formidable range also whatwith the specializations and all. I have shield modules and not too bad suit but it's under a second and I'm down when facing a heavy with HMG. Literally, under a second. Yesterday was especially bad. You can't kill em, you can't outrun em. What do? I know this has been discussed to death but I just felt I should put up a post about this. Couldn't agree more. Once heavies start leveling up, they are practically walking invulnerable tanks. And once they level up sharpshooter, they have some pretty decent range. Even with my Gek-38, two 10 % damage mods, AR proficiency to level 3, sharpshooter level 4 and some other skills maxed out that help dish out damage for an AR... a lot of these heavies are untouchable to me. I can't even take down their shields with a full clip at a pretty close range, and that is where they are weak... if I land constant headshots, I can drop their shields, but by the time I reload I have no chance at stripping their massive armor value while being pummeled by their minigun. Not really sure how they could address this problem, maybe they should make heavies lockable by swarms (doesn't help the AR player though). Perhaps a more realistic fix could be to severely reduce the effective range on the minigun, to the point that the damage drops exponentially at a certain point (much less than it is now). So unless they are right on top of you, the AR range will be able to damage them more than they can damage you. Cause as it stands now, the better range for the AR is useless against these heavy-tanks. The AR damage drops pretty quickly with range, so the already near-impossible to kill in close range heavy, is even more impossible to kill with the damage loss at range for an AR. I'm not even going to finish reading past the first two paragraphs. I just want to understand one thing, your suit is like mine, but I run as a heavy, yet I kill other heavies all the time before they even notice me. Are you saying, you can't, just because of your suit? our DPS on paper is EXACTLY the same, yet I can kill what you cannot. Somethings fishy here. Scratch that, your proficiency is 2 levels higher then mine, you do more damage then I do.
HECATONCHIRES GYGES Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 151	Posted - 2012.11.28 23:02:00 - [45] - Quote Heavies are NOW what they were always supposed to be.....Objective defenders and Assaulter's .Dont worry about Heavies throw grenades on them to wear them down use obstacles.Use distance.CCP is coming out with a shoulder firing Plasma Canon and heavies will be having a hard time with that....I think heavies are where they always should have been at. Assault Class/Suit Objective player EDIT:That gun (HMG) that they carry ....is a ******* mini gun...might want to watch out......lol dum dum dee dum ok george
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.28 23:22:00 - [46] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: MassiveNine wrote: J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: Heavies are not overpowered. We die quite easily, actually, with just a little teamwork brought against us. My Heavy toon costs $50,000 a respawn, and he dies an average of 4-5 times a game... And I usually go 7-8 kills, so I barely break even. I average about 25/5 a game as a heavy. sounds bout right, but not with a suit that only costs 50,000 isk. For a heavy, that's cheap as hell. Yea, it's cheap, but it's just at the level where I'm not really saving isk. whatever I make I spend on suits I'm not really going anywhere my number stays the same in the bank ha. my suit is a bit more than that though. Gold suits baby. I'm not very high level at DUST. Comparatively, 50,000 ISK is cheap for heavy suits, but as I said before, I only have 1.65 mil SP into Heavy, so I am rather low level. Between dying and replacing my suits, and skill books, I am broke. And I don't get enough kills as a low level heavy to get SP or much ISK.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.29 00:27:00 - [47] - Quote I run a Dragonfly/Toxin fitting as my "Kamikaze Free Hugs" build - the entire purpose of which is a zero-cost Uplink deployment platform. It exists for the sole purpose of providing the team with a spawn point. When that job is done, I usually try to reach a Supply Depot, but if that isn't an option, I just go looking for someone to kill/be killed by. When I find a Heavy, it's usually "kill" - I have a Shield Extender and an Armour Repairer and Locus Grenades - all Militia BPOs. I don't have as low a scan profile as most Scouts - even most Dragonfly Scouts - and I can pretty consistently get in close and kill a Heavy before they can kill me, in a lighter-armoured suit specifically DESIGNED to be a throwaway fitting, with a less effective weapon than your AR. I do the same thing against an Assault with a decent AR, and more often than not, I'm the one on the ground afterwards.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.11.29 00:33:00 - [48] - Quote What I do (I'm a logi) is lure them around the corner into some remote explosives I place. OHK, and you get to see fatty fly.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.11.29 00:57:00 - [49] - Quote If i know that heavys are in the game i get my advanced laser and shot them from distance. Slow moving perfect targets, espacially heavy type-II players panic when their shields getting allmost instantly destroyed. And after im done with the shields the laser allready build up heat meaning their armor wont help them. Seriously laser rifles are the biggest enemy to heavys. Simply because lasers outgun AR's and HMG's at medium-long range. Im aswell aible to take down jack boost with a laser rifle. And he knows that when i start pointing my beam off death at him he better run.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.11.29 00:57:00 - [50] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: DJINN leukoplast wrote: Couldn't agree more. Once heavies start leveling up, they are practically walking invulnerable tanks. And once they level up sharpshooter, they have some pretty decent range. Even with my Gek-38, two 10 % damage mods, AR proficiency to level 3, sharpshooter level 4 and some other skills maxed out that help dish out damage for an AR... a lot of these heavies are untouchable to me. I can't even take down their shields with a full clip at a pretty close range, and that is where they are weak... if I land constant headshots, I can drop their shields, but by the time I reload I have no chance at stripping their massive armor value while being pummeled by their minigun. Not really sure how they could address this problem, maybe they should make heavies lockable by swarms (doesn't help the AR player though). Perhaps a more realistic fix could be to severely reduce the effective range on the minigun, to the point that the damage drops exponentially at a certain point (much less than it is now). So unless they are right on top of you, the AR range will be able to damage them more than they can damage you. Cause as it stands now, the better range for the AR is useless against these heavy-tanks. The AR damage drops pretty quickly with range, so the already near-impossible to kill in close range heavy, is even more impossible to kill with the damage loss at range for an AR. I'm not even going to finish reading past the first two paragraphs. I just want to understand one thing, your suit is like mine, but I run as a heavy, yet I kill other heavies all the time before they even notice me. Are you saying, you can't, just because of your suit? our DPS on paper is EXACTLY the same, yet I can kill what you cannot. Somethings fishy here. Scratch that, your proficiency is 2 levels higher then mine, you do more damage then I do. Ok, what now? I never even mentioned my suit in the post. I was simply trying to state that I have quite a few damage upgrade modules/skills and a pretty decent AR, yet the heavies are nearly untouchable for me (unless they are starter heavies and haven't done much, or any, skill upgrades). Maybe I just have a lot of bad luck when it comes to facing heavies, but lately it is almost impossible for me to bring a decently speced heavy down no matter how I approach the situation. Only way I have been able to take one down is if a few other players are shooting them as well.

SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2012.11.29 01:19:00 - [51] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: DJINN leukoplast wrote: Couldn't agree more. Once heavies start leveling up, they are practically walking invulnerable tanks. And once they level up sharpshooter, they have some pretty decent range. Even with my Gek-38, two 10 % damage mods, AR proficiency to level 3, sharpshooter level 4 and some other skills maxed out that help dish out damage for an AR... a lot of these heavies are untouchable to me. I can't even take down their shields with a full clip at a pretty close range, and that is where they are weak... if I land constant headshots, I can drop their shields, but by the time I reload I have no chance at stripping their massive armor value while being pummeled by their minigun. Not really sure how they could address this problem, maybe they should make heavies lockable by swarms (doesn't help the AR player though). Perhaps a more realistic fix could be to severely reduce the effective range on the minigun, to the point that the damage drops exponentially at a certain point (much less than it is now). So unless they are right on top of you, the AR range will be able to damage them more than they can damage you. Cause as it stands now, the better range for the AR is useless against these heavy-tanks. The AR damage drops pretty quickly with range, so the already near-impossible to kill in close range heavy, is even more impossible to kill with the damage loss at range for an AR. I'm not even going to finish reading past the first two paragraphs. I just want to understand one thing, your suit is like mine, but I run as a heavy, yet I kill other heavies all the time before they even notice me. Are you saying, you can't, just because of your suit? our DPS on paper is EXACTLY the same, yet I can kill what you cannot. Somethings fishy here. Scratch that, your proficiency is 2 levels higher then mine, you do more damage then I do. Ok, what now? I never even mentioned my suit in the post. I was simply trying to state that I have quite a few damage upgrade modules/skills and a pretty decent AR, yet the heavies are nearly untouchable for me (unless they are starter heavies and haven't done much, or any, skill upgrades). Maybe I just have a lot of bad luck when it comes to facing heavies, but lately it is almost impossible for me to bring a decently speced heavy down no matter how I approach the situation. Only way I have been able to take one down is if a few other players are shooting them as well. I went ahead and bolded your own words for you in case you forgot. I would also check to see if my internet is fine if I were you. I had hit detection problems until I went from wireless to ethernet connection.
Ima Leet Imperfects Negative-Feedback 321	Posted - 2012.11.29 04:25:00 - [52] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: But AS ALWAYS, CCP buffed too much. Just like they nerfed too much[...] [...] regarding straffing. Made the comparison, and heavies straf at the exact same speed as my assault. Doesnt make sense. first part, this is what CCP does, over nerf, over buff then play the middle, so far its working, it sucks when they are testing this but it is a work in progress and better now than release second part, i dont know if you're right about heavy straffing but i've encountered some heavies who could straffe quick and crazy and i was like "wtf".
Merkis Galdarri The Southern Legion 2	Posted - 2012.11.29 17:38:00 - [53] - Quote Terram Nenokal wrote: I feel heavies having an advantage over AR fit assault suits is intended. A shotgun scout can tear a heavy in half at close range, and if you're running with a squad, you can easily take down a heavy by flanking him or by chipping away at him as you regen behind cover. Their suits are also more expensive to fit, so that makes me feel a little better about it. I mostly run Hvy type-I with Adv. HMG, max armor buff... I cannot tell you enough how true your words are my friend! I was in an ambush 1v1 with a shotgun scout with profile dampeners. She played the deadliest game of hide and seek.. I tried to get all "if it bleeds we can kill it" went on the hunt...SHOTGUN TO THE FACE.. it will fix any Heavy. In fact the sound of a shotgun is the only sound that makes me wanna run..lol..oh that's right, I cant..


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