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Makina Loussier OO Meisters 3	Posted - 2012.11.21 22:17:00 - [1] - Quote (My thoughts and opinions are my own, you have been notified) First off, let me say that while I dislike tanks as they are now I get their role in the battlefield and i get the way that they are used, and that they are most effective to the player who buys them. By all means they should be careful not to die in a tank because they are expensive, and that they want to get back rewards for their efforts. However, the tanks as they are right now are invincibility machines. They take no damage from small arms (as they should) but they also take very small damage from everything else even AV. They can sit on the top of an area safe and secure and rain down fire without worrying about damage as they can easily turn tail and run to safety to heal/recharge. As a player who focuses on AV primarily to combat vehicles I find it very frustrating to attempt to fight even a low level tank. Just today I had an instance where i shot my entire ammo cache of 6 swarm launcher rockets and threw 3 AV nades at a tank just to have him get in his safe zone and heal up. (Im still working on leveling up AV but it was only a Madrugar) While I don't think it should be easy to kill a tank I also don't think it should be hard enough that 24 rockets and 3 AV nades can't get the job done. I also don't think I should have gotten that close to the tank, but the driver wasn't that great and I got lucky. And I think thats what annoys me the most is that it makes it easy to get kills and hide while not being good at having a tank. Its just too easy not to die in a tank. My thought is that the tanks should be powerful anti ground forces that can be destroyed with effort just not enough that its next to impossible. If you have a differing opinion I encourage you to say what you think, just keep it nice.
Drommy Hood Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 242	Posted - 2012.11.21 22:22:00 - [2] - Quote Makina Loussier wrote: (My thoughts and opinions are my own, you have been notified) First off, let me say that while I dislike tanks as they are now I get their role in the battlefield and i get the way that they are used, and that they are most effective to the player who buys them. By all means they should be careful not to die in a tank because they are expensive, and that they want to get back rewards for their efforts. However, the tanks as they are right now are invincibility machines. They take no damage from small arms (as they should) but they also take very small damage from everything else even AV. They can sit on the top of an area safe and secure and rain down fire without worrying about damage as they can easily turn tail and run to safety to heal/recharge. As a player who focuses on AV primarily to combat vehicles I find it very frustrating to attempt to fight even a low level tank. Just today I had an instance where i shot my entire ammo cache of 6 swarm launcher rockets and threw 3 AV nades at a tank just to have him get in his safe zone and heal up. (Im still working on leveling up AV but it was only a Madrugar) While I don't think it should be easy to kill a tank I also don't think it should be hard enough that 24 rockets and 3 AV nades can't get the job done. I also don't think I should have gotten that close to the tank, but the driver wasn't that great and I got lucky. And I think thats what annoys me the most is that it makes it easy to get kills and hide while not being good at having a tank. Its just too easy not to die in a tank. My thought is that the tanks should be powerful anti ground forces that can be destroyed with effort just not enough that its next to impossible. If you have a differing opinion I encourage you to say what you think, just keep it nice. They are tough, but with decent launchers you can take them down, what you say about them running off tho is spot on. If you catch them in the open with proto av and there's 2 of you atleast in cover then it's doable, otherwise they just turn the corner.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.11.21 22:25:00 - [3] - Quote Wot? You tried to Solo a Tank and it didn't work? OH NO! This is the problem right here, people trying to solo a Tank that actually requires teamwork to use effectively.. With 6 Missiles in your Swarm Launcher, you deal over 7200 Damage. If you had two people using swarms, you'd of killed off the Tank. What kind of Swarms are you running? It's extremely easy to die in a Tank. I get smashed by Forge Guns very easily, especially if they're higher up. I only run a Tank when I've got a squad backing me up (4 People including myself) to protect me, and you want to solo us? -_-
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.21 22:32:00 - [4] - Quote I've seen my "normal" Sica fit killed solo by a Militia Swarm Launcher when my shield rep was on cooldown and he managed to pop up from an unexpected direction. I've seen my pure-HP shield-tanked Sica killed by a couple of Militia Swarms a few times as well. I've killed a Gunnlogi with Militia Swarms and a couple of teammates with the basic Laser Rifle. If you're not using good gear with good fittings, it's not the game's fault someone with a well-fitted Sagaris can facetank everything. If they're surviving the kind of firepower you're talking about, you're not timing it right and they're using active modules to good advantage, and you're continuing to fire while they do.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.11.21 22:42:00 - [5] - Quote What most annoys me is that while my LAV's prototype railgun wreaks havoc on dropships, it barely scratches anything tougher than a militia tank.
Knightshade Belladonna Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 288	Posted - 2012.11.21 22:45:00 - [6] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Wot? You tried to Solo a Tank and it didn't work? OH NO! This is the problem right here, people trying to solo a Tank that actually requires teamwork to use effectively.. With 6 Missiles in your Swarm Launcher, you deal over 7200 Damage. If you had two people using swarms, you'd of killed off the Tank. What kind of Swarms are you running? It's extremely easy to die in a Tank. I get smashed by Forge Guns very easily, especially if they're higher up. I only run a Tank when I've got a squad backing me up (4 People including myself) to protect me, and you want to solo us? -_- what swarm does 7200 dmg lol
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.11.21 22:53:00 - [7] - Quote Knightshade Belladonna wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Wot? You tried to Solo a Tank and it didn't work? OH NO! This is the problem right here, people trying to solo a Tank that actually requires teamwork to use effectively.. With 6 Missiles in your Swarm Launcher, you deal over 7200 Damage. If you had two people using swarms, you'd of killed off the Tank. What kind of Swarms are you running? It's extremely easy to die in a Tank. I get smashed by Forge Guns very easily, especially if they're higher up. I only run a Tank when I've got a squad backing me up (4 People including myself) to protect me, and you want to solo us? -_- what swarm does 7200 dmg lol WITH 6 MISSILES IN A SWARM LAUNCHER. What is with this community and their inability to read? It's bloody horrendous. I'm pretty sure a Swarm Launcher deals 1200HP at standard level.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.21 23:06:00 - [8] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: WITH 6 MISSILES IN A SWARM LAUNCHER. What is with this community and their inability to read? It's bloody horrendous. I'm pretty sure a Swarm Launcher deals 1200HP at standard level. These are the basic stats on the Militia Swarm Launcher, as taken from in-game. Direct Damage Per Missile: 300 Splash Damage Per Missile: 15 Blast Radius: 1.0m Missiles Per Shot: 4 4 x 300 = 1200. Add splash of 4 x 15 = 60 That's a total of 1260 damage if all missiles hit, because splash damage applies to anything in their blast radius, including the target they dealt direct damage to. Add Weaponry level 5, Swarm Launcher Proficiency level 5 and Damage Mods, and you can be pouring a LOT of damage out with high-tier Swarm Launchers that fire more missiles per lock.
Misaka Mokoto OO Meisters 0	Posted - 2012.11.21 23:11:00 - [9] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Wot? You tried to Solo a Tank and it didn't work? OH NO! This is the problem right here, people trying to solo a Tank that actually requires teamwork to use effectively.. With 6 Missiles in your Swarm Launcher, you deal over 7200 Damage. If you had two people using swarms, you'd of killed off the Tank. What kind of Swarms are you running? It's extremely easy to die in a Tank. I get smashed by Forge Guns very easily, especially if they're higher up. I only run a Tank when I've got a squad backing me up (4 People including myself) to protect me, and you want to solo us? -_- I had the first level swarm launcher thats in the market. 300 per rocket at four rockets with a 10% damage bonus and basic AV nades. I shot all four rounds then reloaded the other two then threw the AV nades because i was closing in the entire time I was shooting. I don't know for sure how much the AV nades do against vehicles but since it can kill an Onikuma with 2 easy I'm going to say about 500 damage a nade. Thats 1500 for the nades then 300 x 1.10 x 24 for the rockets thats a total of 9420 damage. Thats quite a bit of damage for a tank to just shrug off even if its one player. As well, the next game i played we had a Gunnlogi roll right in between 3 of us armed with swarms and one with a forge gun and escape completely fine. So even in teams they are hard to kill. Not to mention these are the lower - mid level tanks.
Chirico Red Shoulder Doomheim 17	Posted - 2012.11.22 11:12:00 - [10] - Quote At this point in this build, you cant call yourself av swarmer if you don't use a prototype launcher and have proficiency lvl3 at least. Using A series assault dropsuit with 2 complex light damage modifiers, prototype swarm launcher, and swarm launcher proficiency lvl3 and above is guaranteed to wreck any lav, hav, or dropship in few swarms. That's how I used to destroy tanks last build (bad furry's included), when tanks were almost invincible, tanks are a joke now compared to how they were. Basic swarm launchers are useless unless ur targeting basic militia lavs and dropships.

BobThe843CakeMan BurgezzE.T.F 132	Posted - 2012.11.22 14:46:00 - [11] - Quote u got to be kidding me. r u saying u want to nerf tanks even more??? are u drunk??? our lives are hard enough as it is. Esspecially with forge guns doing 3000 damage and swarms doing 2000(shield tank) i'm going to take it tht u r just drunk. :)
Waruiko DUST G I A N T 90	Posted - 2012.11.22 15:12:00 - [12] - Quote part of the issue is that swarms as the default AV weapon deal lopsided damage. A single swarm has a base damage of 1200 assuming all rounds hit and excluding splash as negligible. Swarms also deal reduced damage against shields and extra damage to armor now though. The opposite is true for forge guns which deal roughly 1200 base direct hit damage themselves. We get this from the math then. Type.........Base DMG...........VS Shield............VS Armor SL............1200.....................840.......................1560 FG............1200.....................1560.....................840 Pro SL......1800.....................1260.....................2340 Pro FG......1400.....................1820.....................980 AV nades and all explosive charges seem to be just that, explosive. They would then also suffer from massive damage reduction against the currently popular shield tanks. And yes those numbers suggest that were that 30% type shift not a factor and SL able to catch dropships They would be better then FG. EDIT FOR FORMATING
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 208	Posted - 2012.11.22 15:38:00 - [13] - Quote Waruiko DUST wrote: part of the issue is that swarms as the default AV weapon deal lopsided damage. A single swarm has a base damage of 1200 assuming all rounds hit and excluding splash as negligible. Swarms also deal reduced damage against shields and extra damage to armor now though. The opposite is true for forge guns which deal roughly 1200 base direct hit damage themselves. We get this from the math then. Type.........Base DMG...........VS Shield............VS Armor SL............1200.....................840.......................1560 FG............1200.....................1560.....................840 Pro SL......1800.....................1260.....................2340 Pro FG......1400.....................1820.....................980 AV nades and all explosive charges seem to be just that, explosive. They would then also suffer from massive damage reduction against the currently popular shield tanks. And yes those numbers suggest that were that 30% type shift not a factor and SL able to catch dropships They would be better then FG. EDIT FOR FORMATING Where did you get these figures from ?
Misaka Mokoto OO Meisters 0	Posted - 2012.11.22 23:09:00 - [14] - Quote BobThe843CakeMan wrote: u got to be kidding me. r u saying u want to nerf tanks even more??? are u drunk??? our lives are hard enough as it is. Esspecially with forge guns doing 3000 damage and swarms doing 2000(shield tank) i'm going to take it tht u r just drunk. :) Im saying that tanks need to be tanks and not an instant "no deaths machine". Their shields and armor shouldn't be able to regen in less than a minute. The low-mid level tanks should be able to destroy with at least 6 low-mid level AV shots. I also think that their firepower should be increased on a few weapon types because they tanks seem relatively weak in that area. A tank should be a heavy armored & powerful machine that takes a few rocket/forge shots to damage/take out, without it going around a corner and coming back perfectly fine.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 219	Posted - 2012.11.22 23:42:00 - [15] - Quote Should we not be considering these things in the same sort of sense that tanks in reality operate? How many hits from a rocket launcher could a real life tank take? Two? Three? Okay so this is the future and there's all this fantastic tech, so tanks would not be as vulnerable in this way but also consider that this super tech would also apply to AV. There is no vehicle on earth that could handle repeated multiple hits from anti-vehicle weapons. If you were in a war and rubbish enough at tank driving to let yourself take even one hit from an AV weapon, let alone two or three, you would die plain and simple. In summary, tanks should be able to be taken on solo. However, and I can't stress this enough, it should not be safe or easy to be able to get yourself into a position to solo a tank. Swarms should be heavy weapons which need reloading every round. You should not be able to run around in a scout suit willy nilly popping off powerful rockets left, right and centre and you should not be able to move whilst aiming (or at least move very slowly, akin to the forge gun). This would ensure that AV suits are effective but vulnerable. It would still take multiple people to take down a tank because you would need a support team to protect you and repair/revive you whilst getting into tank-killing position. Taking down a tank would still require coordination and planning, as it does in real life unless of course you have another tank.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.11.23 03:48:00 - [16] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Wot? You tried to Solo a Tank and it didn't work? OH NO! This is the problem right here, people trying to solo a Tank that actually requires teamwork to use effectively.. With 6 Missiles in your Swarm Launcher, you deal over 7200 Damage. If you had two people using swarms, you'd of killed off the Tank. What kind of Swarms are you running? It's extremely easy to die in a Tank. I get smashed by Forge Guns very easily, especially if they're higher up. I only run a Tank when I've got a squad backing me up (4 People including myself) to protect me, and you want to solo us? -_- Lmao ppl love defending tanks. Let me ask you a question. How much does your tank cost? What's your average K/D in a game where you use a tank? How many games does your average tank survive. How often do you run off to spawn red zone to heal up? How many FG charges to the hull can your average tank take? I'd love you to truthfully answer these questions and still manage to make a convincing argument against the points that the author of the post made. No one said that one AV guy should be able to solo a tank (but judging by how much a decent AV suit costs they may as well). Usually you have a whole team of red dots trying to stop one tank and failing miserably - the second a couple of guys starts respawning as AV the team becomes too vulnerable to infantry. The point that the author made was that with extreme luck and having landed multiple hits on a tank, he still could not blow it up.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.11.23 03:52:00 - [17] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: WITH 6 MISSILES IN A SWARM LAUNCHER. What is with this community and their inability to read? It's bloody horrendous. I'm pretty sure a Swarm Launcher deals 1200HP at standard level. These are the basic stats on the Militia Swarm Launcher, as taken from in-game. Direct Damage Per Missile: 300 Splash Damage Per Missile: 15 Blast Radius: 1.0m Missiles Per Shot: 4 4 x 300 = 1200. Add splash of 4 x 15 = 60 That's a total of 1260 damage if all missiles hit, because splash damage applies to anything in their blast radius, including the target they dealt direct damage to. Add Weaponry level 5, Swarm Launcher Proficiency level 5 and Damage Mods, and you can be pouring a LOT of damage out with high-tier Swarm Launchers that fire more missiles per lock. Umm.... ok so 1260... How did you guys get 7200? Prove with math, please. Otherwise, you are talking out of your S
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 132	Posted - 2012.11.23 03:57:00 - [18] - Quote Ok... I am not a fan of comparing games to reality but I think the following is a fair argument. In real life tanks dominate in open spaces but are vulnerable in urban areas. The same should also make sense in Dust - I see tanks roll up in places with tons of rocks or other obstacles where infantry can hide and still manage to wreck havoc. The reason for this is that they can withstand a ton of AV beating w/o going down.
Waruiko DUST G I A N T 90	Posted - 2012.11.23 08:59:00 - [19] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Waruiko DUST wrote: part of the issue is that swarms as the default AV weapon deal lopsided damage. A single swarm has a base damage of 1200 assuming all rounds hit and excluding splash as negligible. Swarms also deal reduced damage against shields and extra damage to armor now though. The opposite is true for forge guns which deal roughly 1200 base direct hit damage themselves. We get this from the math then. Type.........Base DMG...........VS Shield............VS Armor SL............1200.....................840.......................1560 FG............1200.....................1560.....................840 Pro SL......1800.....................1260.....................2340 Pro FG......1400.....................1820.....................980 AV nades and all explosive charges seem to be just that, explosive. They would then also suffer from massive damage reduction against the currently popular shield tanks. And yes those numbers suggest that were that 30% type shift not a factor and SL able to catch dropships They would be better then FG. EDIT FOR FORMATING Where did you get these figures from ? SL does 300 a missile and standard fires 4 with proto firing 6 so 1200 and 18oo respectively FG deal 1200 and change at standard and 1400 and change at proto. an Assault will deal a little more and a breach will deal a lot more but those are different beasts all together. Skills and the exact damage on the FG weren't included because I didn't have access to my PS3 at the time I was posting, but those figures are roughly accurate. If you are referring to the CS Shield and Armor thing thats because some weapons now deal 130% damage to one type and 70% to the other. Its also worth noting that those figures are for single shots the fully connect against non weak point locations.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.11.23 09:38:00 - [20] - Quote Waruiko DUST wrote: part of the issue is that swarms as the default AV weapon deal lopsided damage. A single swarm has a base damage of 1200 assuming all rounds hit and excluding splash as negligible. Swarms also deal reduced damage against shields and extra damage to armor now though. The opposite is true for forge guns which deal roughly 1200 base direct hit damage themselves. We get this from the math then. Type.........Base DMG...........VS Shield............VS Armor SL............1200.....................840.......................1560 FG............1200.....................1560.....................840 Pro SL......1800.....................1260.....................2340 Pro FG......1400.....................1820.....................980 AV nades and all explosive charges seem to be just that, explosive. They would then also suffer from massive damage reduction against the currently popular shield tanks. And yes those numbers suggest that were that 30% type shift not a factor and SL able to catch dropships They would be better then FG. EDIT FOR FORMATING Dude you do know that forgeguns have a efficency rating off 100% against armor and shields? There is no weapon in the game that gives you 130% bonus towards shields on vehicles. The only reason why people think that forgeguns do more damage against shields is because they actually deliver the damage thats tagged on the stats off it. You might get more damage cause off your skills or damage mods but you do not gain a natural bonus like swarms do against armor. And it depends on the tank fit aswell depending what resistance it has or if it is running a active resistance module. The only weapons that would be gaining a efficency bonus are lasers and no i dont mean the infantry modell. You probs would need a laser turret on a vehicle to do proper damage. At the moment as it is the forgegun is counted as a hybrid weapon like the railgun.

Guinevere Bravo SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 140	Posted - 2012.11.23 10:02:00 - [21] - Quote I run a crappy assault AV fit, Level 2 SL Prof so I can use the 5 shot SL. I run 'Packed' AV nades. Nanohives I've destroyed 2-3 tanks on patch day. EZmode. The trick is to get as close and high up (to the tank) as possible, if you start firing your swarms from the other side of the map he will see and dodge it. I literally run AT the tank firing swarms off and as soon as the sheild hits zero 2 packed AV nade's and POP job done.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.23 12:53:00 - [22] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: WITH 6 MISSILES IN A SWARM LAUNCHER. What is with this community and their inability to read? It's bloody horrendous. I'm pretty sure a Swarm Launcher deals 1200HP at standard level. These are the basic stats on the Militia Swarm Launcher, as taken from in-game. Direct Damage Per Missile: 300 Splash Damage Per Missile: 15 Blast Radius: 1.0m Missiles Per Shot: 4 4 x 300 = 1200. Add splash of 4 x 15 = 60 That's a total of 1260 damage if all missiles hit, because splash damage applies to anything in their blast radius, including the target they dealt direct damage to. Add Weaponry level 5, Swarm Launcher Proficiency level 5 and Damage Mods, and you can be pouring a LOT of damage out with high-tier Swarm Launchers that fire more missiles per lock. Umm.... ok so 1260... How did you guys get 7200? Prove with math, please. Otherwise, you are talking out of your S First off, 1260 is Militia with NO skills and NO Damage Mods applied. And I never stated the 7200 as confirmed, because I haven't confirmed it for myself yet. Here's what I CAN say for sure though: +25% for Weaponry 5. +25% for Swarm Prof 5. There are 6 missiles per shot with a Prototype Launcher instead of the 4 from Militia/Standard models. That comes out to a total of either 2835 or 2953, depending on how those skill bonuses are applied. Now add the damage increase from 2 Damage Modifiers. I don't think it'll hit 7000, but I'm pretty sure 4000 is a low estimate. I don't have the exact numbers on hand right now, but anyone can feel free to work it out for me (I'll probably check properly when I have time).
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.23 13:19:00 - [23] - Quote Tanks are not tanks 2/3 turrets are nerfed because the community cried All the resistance mods got nerfed so less resistance against AV AV in general got a buff but it is also broke in a big way 1 AV guy can solo a tank Armor tanks are weaker than shield tanks so only 1 type of tank is mainly used In short tanks are getting slowly taken out of the game, the reason they are up on that hill is because the community forced them up ther, the reason they back off after taking a hit or 2 is because tanks are weak and they want to survive and look after that investment not lose it
Django Quik R.I.f.t 219	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:54:00 - [24] - Quote Tanks should be up on the hills hiding because tanks never operate alone. Tanks are always used in groups in real life because otherwise they are too vulnerable to AV - this should be the case in Dust too. Personally I think they've got the tanks and AV balanced just about right at the moment. It's fairly easy to keep tanks at bay or even destroy them, though the higher level ones can be more troublesome. There is only one map on which tanks are a pain because they can hide in the outskirts far too easily but still get good shots at key targets (Manus Peak) but that map's getting a major overhaul next build anyway, so it's being dealt with. What is disappointing is that there isn't more use of tanks in groups, like you see in many of the Dust promo videos. If you want tanks to be effective, start using them properly. Also, to go back to the whole 7200 damage discussion, I think that number was arrived at by adding the basic damage of each shot of the militia swarm after using the entire ammo - that's 300 X 4 x 6 = 7200. Done.
The Polish Hammer Doomheim 373	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:05:00 - [25] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: 1 AV guy can solo a tank Yes.....your point is? It's not easy to solo a tank. Especially the ones that are well known for being absurdly fine tuned and specialized. (Lurch, Ted, Bad Furry, etc etc). It can be done, but it's a almost like a completely separate match between you and the tanker.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.24 12:31:00 - [26] - Quote The Polish Hammer wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: 1 AV guy can solo a tank Yes.....your point is? It's not easy to solo a tank. Especially the ones that are well known for being absurdly fine tuned and specialized. (Lurch, Ted, Bad Furry, etc etc). It can be done, but it's a almost like a completely separate match between you and the tanker. TBH it really shouldnt happen unless its a badly fitted tank 2 builds ago it took a little thing called TEAMWORK and at least some serious investment in AV, now its the opposite
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2012.11.24 12:46:00 - [27] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: TBH it really shouldnt happen unless its a badly fitted tank 2 builds ago it took a little thing called TEAMWORK and at least some serious investment in AV, now its the opposite See, I think the problem is that while it should take a lot of teamwork to defeat a tank (I agree 100% on this btw) it doesn't currently require any teamwork to drive one. The most scare resource in Dust warfare isn't ISK or Aurum or skill points; it is players. The game should be balanced around that, not around ISK. Who gives a stuff if your tank is more expensive than my dropsuit; the constraint is the players, not the ISK. Trying to balance using ISK has failed dramatically in Eve (Titan blobs anyone?) and I strongly suspect it will do so in Dust. The solution seems simple to me (but I know I'll just get shouted down by the community): balance around a 3 player tank team fighting a 3 player AV team, assuming equal ISK on both sides. Reds have a 1.2 million ISK tank fit that requires a driver, a gunner and a commander (driver can't fire the main gun, both driver and gunner have limited field of view, commander has good visibility and an anti-infantry HMG). Blues have 3 x 400K AV dropsuits. That should be an even battle and player skill would be the decider.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.24 13:05:00 - [28] - Quote You limit driver view your screwing the tank over As for no teamwork to drive one i really dont know where you are going with this, currently i have to drive/watch out for threats/activate mods while driving and GTFO of dodge/also aim main turret and if the tank survives its mainly because of the driver tbh and its even more so now
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2012.11.24 14:27:00 - [29] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: As for no teamwork to drive one i really dont know where you are going with this, currently i have to drive/watch out for threats/activate mods while driving and GTFO of dodge/also aim main turret and if the tank survives its mainly because of the driver tbh and its even more so now That's an example of something requiring skill, not teamwork. Anyway, like I said originally, "I know I'll just get shouted down by the community" on this. I understand a lot of people want to keep single player tanks, I just don't happen to agree. I don't believe it will ever be possible to balance tanks/AV and keep everyone happy without requiring multiple players to operate a tank. Expect to see a continuous cycle of nerfs & buffs as CCP struggle on without addressing the real issue. That real issue being that tank drivers want to balance in terms of ISK, almost everyone else wants to balance in terms of players, and the ratio of ISK to players will be different depending on whether tanks are involved or not.
Waruiko DUST G I A N T 90	Posted - 2012.11.24 14:39:00 - [30] - Quote Tank drivers want balance in terms of being able to play to their chosen specialty.



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