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R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2012.11.24 12:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:TBH it really shouldnt happen unless its a badly fitted tank
2 builds ago it took a little thing called TEAMWORK and at least some serious investment in AV, now its the opposite
See, I think the problem is that while it should take a lot of teamwork to defeat a tank (I agree 100% on this btw) it doesn't currently require any teamwork to drive one.
The most scare resource in Dust warfare isn't ISK or Aurum or skill points; it is players. The game should be balanced around that, not around ISK. Who gives a stuff if your tank is more expensive than my dropsuit; the constraint is the players, not the ISK. Trying to balance using ISK has failed dramatically in Eve (Titan blobs anyone?) and I strongly suspect it will do so in Dust.
The solution seems simple to me (but I know I'll just get shouted down by the community): balance around a 3 player tank team fighting a 3 player AV team, assuming equal ISK on both sides.
Reds have a 1.2 million ISK tank fit that requires a driver, a gunner and a commander (driver can't fire the main gun, both driver and gunner have limited field of view, commander has good visibility and an anti-infantry HMG).
Blues have 3 x 400K AV dropsuits.
That should be an even battle and player skill would be the decider. |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2012.11.24 14:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:As for no teamwork to drive one i really dont know where you are going with this, currently i have to drive/watch out for threats/activate mods while driving and GTFO of dodge/also aim main turret and if the tank survives its mainly because of the driver tbh and its even more so now
That's an example of something requiring skill, not teamwork.
Anyway, like I said originally, "I know I'll just get shouted down by the community" on this. I understand a lot of people want to keep single player tanks, I just don't happen to agree.
I don't believe it will ever be possible to balance tanks/AV and keep everyone happy without requiring multiple players to operate a tank. Expect to see a continuous cycle of nerfs & buffs as CCP struggle on without addressing the real issue.
That real issue being that tank drivers want to balance in terms of ISK, almost everyone else wants to balance in terms of players, and the ratio of ISK to players will be different depending on whether tanks are involved or not.
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R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 15:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Waruiko DUST wrote:Tank drivers want balance in terms of being able to play to their chosen specialty.
That may be a good thing, but its not "balance".
Titan pilots in Eve also just want to be able play their chosen speciality, but the community and CCP understand that without appropriate controls it is going to cause problems for the game.
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R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 15:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:
Exactly skill not teamwork
So you are suggesting that Tanks should not require teamwork, but that AV to kill them should. I don't agree.
Quote:
Teamwork a tank isnt exactly easy to do since the driver does it all half the time with driving/aiming/killing and activating mods and the gunners are ther for the ride
Exactly. I'm not raging at you for not doing teamwork in your tank, because I know that tank driving doesn't require it. I'm suggesting that the game should be changed so that you can't do driving/aiming/killing/activating mods with one player.
Quote:Only way is to split the main turret from the driver, then you come across the problem that most likely the guy driving still needs all the turrets skill to be bale to put it on a tank
Yes, I'm suggesting to split the main turret from the driver. I'm also suggesting a tank commander role to make it a 3 player vehicle. You'd probably find that it will be the commanders who create the fits and call them in, then they delegate the driving and main turret shooting.
Quote:
Unless by teamwork a tank you mean to fully outfit a tank with gunners they can train up skills for certain turrets and then buy the turrets to fit onto the tank and the driver doesnt need them skilled to fit them because a gunner already has them which i can see being hard to implement and confusing for alot of ppl
No, I don't think this would work; as you say, confusing & hard to implement.
Quote:
Or even skills in general for players which help the tank, so i dunno pilot suits in which mods can be added to the suit which help imporve the tank in some way ie armor shield hp/regen/resistances/speed/acceleration/dps/ROF etc
Sounds reasonble to me. A tank commander dropsuit, maybe?
I'm still aiming for that "epic" fight between a tank and an AV squad; both sides have 3 players, with a total of about 10mill SP between them and both have spent about 2 mill ISK on equipment. Both sides need to work as a team, with all players demonstrating significant personal skill as well as the teamwork stuff. |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 21:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:R F Gyro wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:
Exactly skill not teamwork
So you are suggesting that Tanks should not require teamwork, but that AV to kill them should. I don't agree. . I never said that it was in response to your quote that it takes driver skill to survive and that it doesnt take teamwork becuase the 2 gunners are next to useless Ther is no teamwork for the tank driver but its all on him to survive against AV AV should take teamwork, as it is now it doesnt its an option but you can solo a tank no problem on your own
R F Gyro wrote:
So you are suggesting that Tanks should not require teamwork, but that AV to kill them should. I don't agree.
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R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 14:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
[blush] |
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