While I haven't done my testing as comprehensively or in a particularly structured manner, I've seen results which, for the most part, match the OP.

One point of difference I should mention is with long-range Sniper Rifle use.

There are two factors to be considered. Burst damage vs. DPS, and headshots.

Firstly, burst vs. DPS. ARs have high DPS, while Sniper Rifles are about burst damage. This means high single-hit damage, which is important, because when an enemy is weakened and trying to heal up, burst damage will kill them before they get the opportunity, while DPS-style damage often gives the target that little bit of time they need to retreat. This factor comes into play far more often with squad-level and team-level coordination than it does when testing 1 vs. 1, because a Sniper paired with an AR guy will clearly out-perform 2 AR users at long range. Mid-range SMG and long-range Sniper vs. 2 ARs should also result in the SMG/Sniper pair winning - even though both of those weapons are at a disadvantage against ARs when used in 1 vs. 1 combat at those ranges.

Headshots factor in because Sniper Rifles are just better at landing headshots at long range. Combine the higher chance of a skilled user getting a headshot with the massive increase in damage the Sniper Rifle gets for such a shot, and you'll frequently see a good sniper one-shotting enemies with better gear and more SP than himself. A Militia Sniper Rifle can easily one-shot almost any non-Heavy non-Prototype fitting, if you assume similar SP investment from both players.

Thing a lot of players are forgetting about the assault rifle, it's meant to be good in most situations. The weapons on here are pretty blend and CCP has been over nerfing things already so it really just limits you one playstyles for weapons.

-Some people don't wanna use the HMG since you have to be a heavy.
-The Mass Driver nets more assist then kills.
-Laser Rifles is nice but only when you have it up to Lv. 3.
-SMG is only suited for CQC but maps are not supported for CQC.
-Pistol is fine and great for on the fly weapon swaps.
-Snipers are to easy to use and require little to no skill.
-Forge Gun is a heavy only and it's hard to get infantry kills with it.
-Shotgun is CQC only and pretty much like the SMG, meaning worthless at range and more than 80% of the game is ranged combat.
-Nova Knifes are fun but you have to spend so much time working on them and they are CQC only.
-Swarms Launchers are vehicle only now.


The reason ARs are the go to weapon, it's just like every day needs in the army. An assault rifle is meant to adapt to any situation. Also the AR have different playstyle. The full auto AR is the easiest to use for those that lack aim since it's spare and pray. The Tact is for those that can aim. The Burst is for those that can aim but not as good and want a higher rate of fire. The breach needs a buff (Started trying it out last night and I'm lucky to get over 25+ kills with the CreoDron Breach AR)

While this kind of testing is nice to see, it doesn't really provide anything we didn't already know. SMG and Shotgun are best at close range, Sniper is best at super far ranges and AR is good for a variety of things.

....that's kind of exactly the point of Assault Rifles though. These weapons are performing as intended and doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. This isn't an issue with gun balance, as every weapon has it's specific role (Except ARs which are good at everything but not the best).

Why shouldn't the AR be the best weapon in mid range?

And if it should be jack of all trades, then it should be able to countersnipe snipers sitting in their redline and also be able to take out Proto vehicles.

Edit: And a weapon that's better than the AR in mid range? Missile turrets?

I fail to see how the AR is great in short to mid range is an imbalance.

Shotguns dominate short range (SMG's as well, but they're a sidearm).
AR dominate short to mid range.
Lasers dominate mid to long range.
Snipers dominate everything beyond long range.

AR's are currently ok in mid to long range, but let's not forget they lack recoil at the moment.

Conclusion:
The Militia Assault Rifle seems to over preform itGÇÖs role as GÇ£jack of all trades master of noneGÇ¥ being the master of mid range and one of the few weapons which can contend in both short and long ranges effectively. [sic] Based on this testing it is my sense that the recoil and spread applied to the AR should be increased thus requiring higher player and character skills to uses an AR to great effect at longer ranges or GÇÿrun GÇÿnGÇÖ gunGÇÖ close quarters situations thus bringing it back into line with itGÇÖs battlefield role.

AR isn't the master of Mid as defined by your definitions though, that would fall to the HMG or Laser Rifle. Don't forget those Mkitten Drivers that terrorize players on a nightly basis. The scrambler pistol is pretty handy pistol if you know how to use it as well.

Basically your "test" is flawed if you pick and choose what weapons are used in your testing. Each and every weapon, not just weapon type, would need to be tested. Which is what a beta test is for. Coming in and wanting something nerfed if you have not, by your own admission tested them (the laser rifle was introduced in Codex, so you say you've never used them). The reason that you see more ARs than anything else is that they work the same as any other AR in any other game. The most popular weapon in any game is the AR, followed closely by Sniper Rifles and HMGs. The "specialty" guns trail them. But you didn't put the HMG into your test at all, and it is a rather popular weapon right now in Dust.

The AR is fine. It does need to have the weapon spread and kick reinstated to former levels, but that was only lowered because people came in and made posts spouting "facts" so CCP made them uber easy.

*edited so as not to look trollish*

A note for completeness sake. I have duplicated the AR starter fit subbing in the Driver and Laser respectively. With 'blank' skills this requires that the Cardiac be omitted in favor of a CPU mod in order to equip the Laser. As such the Laser fit even in "starer" form is more expensive than any of the other options but the expense is likely nominal even to a starting player.

In answer to your last post, I have found that most of the weapons can be skilled in to within 5 games, and that is just so that you can afford the skillbooks. The reason for the HMG being so easy for me to obtain however is I have the Skinweave Heavy Suit, so that affects me being able to look at it from a standpoint of skill points, since I don't require the skillpoints into the Heavy Suit to use it.
How do you get into them so fast? The number is only if you forsake any other skills starting out and pump everything you have into weaponry, then into the weapon skill you want. It is not the method I would teach someone new to the game to take, as not having the supporting skills can be rough if you don't know what you are doing out there. But for someone that has been around here for a little bit, just a couple hours after things patch up they can be in a Heavy suit firing off HMG rounds everywhere.

If you have any AUR, there is a Militia CPU Upgrade BPO that can be used if you want to save ISK.

It only costs 20 or 30 AUR, and it's a one-time purchase for infinite CPU Upgrades, so it's a pretty good deal, imo.

I 100% agree with you, and I do indeed have the AUR to pick up those BPOs. For the purposes of this test however I am trying to avoid using any beta tester rewards (skinweave) or Merc Pack/AUR goodies simply because no everyone will have them (and since it adds another layer of variables).

Your advice however is quite sound and I completely endorse it.

Cheers
Cross

ps ~ general testing proceeds apace, I should be familiar enough with the Driver and Laser to begin comparative testing either next week or the week after.

Assault Rifles (Breach especially) - the ultimate weapons of DUST 514
Update: The recoil will be tuned up slightly as well as revisting optimal range for weapons in general in future updates.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=381213#post381213


I think the above quote is a fitting place to draw this thread to a close.