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Zion Shad
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
1620
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Posted - 2012.11.05 23:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
IGÇÖm asking that Forge guns get a slight increase in Accuracy and Range to combat what people are calling OP Dropships. I donGÇÖt see this as a problem when Forge guns have no zoom function in the first place.
Thanks
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KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2012.11.05 23:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
It might be nice. But I'm concerned about the forge vs tank balance which is right on spot now IMO.
So, I'd recommend still waiting after for the fixing the swarm launchers. (The SMART fixing of SL's. But let's not make this thread another swarm fix thread, ok?) |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.11.05 23:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zion Shad wrote:IGÇÖm asking that Forge guns get a slight increase in Accuracy and Range to combat what people are calling OP Dropships. I donGÇÖt see this as a problem when Forge guns have no zoom function in the first place.
Thanks
So you want them to be an even more effective railgun tank? The amount to which they are used to one hit instakill infantry across the map is already ridiculous. If anything they need a reduction in range and splash, rolling them into a antivehicle only ambush weapon. Dropships can be addressed by fixing the flight path of swarms, as I've said on every single thread on this topic over the past month. |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1041
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Posted - 2012.11.06 00:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zion Shad wrote:IGÇÖm asking that Forge guns get a slight increase in Accuracy and Range to combat what people are calling OP Dropships. I donGÇÖt see this as a problem when Forge guns have no zoom function in the first place.
Thanks
In regards to this build, our forge gunners have no issue hitting drop ships. Forge guns have awesome power and there should be skill invovled in using it.
That said, I have no idea what the next build will bring so I reserve the right to change my mind based upon what ccp breaks. |
I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
172
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Posted - 2012.11.06 00:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
I skilled into forge guns with an alt and got to a million sp before I decided that it wasn't worth it anymore.
In my opinion, it's really hard to actually hit the dropships when they're moving so fast. You literally have to aim ahead of them perfectly in order to even have a chance at hitting them, and by the time I do hit them a couple times, I run out of ammo, or die.
I really wish the forge gun blast traveled faster, or could be upgraded to travel faster. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.11.06 00:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
if anything, I think slight and I mean slight range nerf is in order.
Other than that as a professional forge gunner they're fine in anti-vehicle accuracy and the anti infantry capabilities have been severely reduced to 'acceptable' levels which I can only really kill players with direct hits. |
immortal ironhide
SyNergy Gaming
80
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Posted - 2012.11.06 01:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
as i said in the thread i made that has been buried on here, forge guns would benefit most from a skill to reduce the screen shake. other than that they are fine as is.
as free beers said, a skilled forge gunner will hit a dropship with relative ease, except when there is the fun frame rate where the dropship appears to hover but you actually dont hit it.
paren...why would you want to reduce their already limited range? idk why ppl want the forge to be a short range ambush weapon. kinda makes forges 100% pointless if they are only good for 50m. no tank is gunna stay in range and let you hit it enough to destroy it, and also this makes them 100% useless against dropships. the way it is now the range lets you stay hidden slightly while still being effective. also, getting close to a tank with a heavy = suicide..you will die after maybe 1 shot if the ppl in the tank arent completely blind/stupid.
edit: the thread i had made https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=370973#post370973 |
Zion Shad
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
1620
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Posted - 2012.11.06 01:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
@ Paran Tadec: Quote:So you want them to be an even more effective railgun tank?
If the Railguns on tanks are slightly tweak back it wonGÇÖt be. Not picking a fight against Tanks here.
Quote:The amount to which they are used to one hit instakill infantry across the map is already ridiculous. If anything they need a reduction in range and splash, rolling them into a anti-vehicle only ambush weapon.
This is a weapon built to inflict major damage to VehicleGÇÖs so yea if Infantry gets hit by it then they should die in one shot. Missiles can do the exact same to infantry, but they have Zoom, infinite range and require no charge time. Snipers and Missiles still hold the range advantage.
Quote:Dropships can be addressed by fixing the flight path of swarms, as I've said on every single thread on this topic over the past month.
I enjoyed the flight path of swarm from the last build. They went straight for the target and if a building got in their path they would blow. I say bring that back. Even if fixed I still want this tweak for Forge Guns |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.11.06 02:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zion Shad wrote:@ Paran Tadec: Quote:So you want them to be an even more effective railgun tank?
If the Railguns on tanks are slightly tweak back it wonGÇÖt be. Not picking a fight against Tanks here. Quote:The amount to which they are used to one hit instakill infantry across the map is already ridiculous. If anything they need a reduction in range and splash, rolling them into a anti-vehicle only ambush weapon. This is a weapon built to inflict major damage to VehicleGÇÖs so yea if Infantry gets hit by it then they should die in one shot. Missiles can do the exact same to infantry, but they have Zoom, infinite range and require no charge time. Snipers and Missiles still hold the range advantage. Quote:Dropships can be addressed by fixing the flight path of swarms, as I've said on every single thread on this topic over the past month.
I enjoyed the flight path of swarm from the last build. They went straight for the target and if a building got in their path they would blow. I say bring that back. Even if fixed I still want this tweak for Forge Guns
I said the same thing about railguns, in regards to their ability to kill infantry ( a railgun round landing near you should have enough splash to kill you) but CCP felt otherwise and nerfed the **** out of them. Being as forgegun and railgun have similar roles (AV), shouldnt they function similarly? I'd be ok with the current forges if the railguns were returned to their former glory. Currently, a forge and tank squaring off, I see forges win everytime, especially if its a railtank. As for missiles, missiles should have splash as they should be ok at AI and AV. Railguns and blasters are more specialized. |
Zion Shad
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
1620
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Posted - 2012.11.06 03:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote: I said the same thing about railguns, in regards to their ability to kill infantry ( a railgun round landing near you should have enough splash to kill you) but CCP felt otherwise and nerfed the **** out of them. Being as forgegun and railgun have similar roles (AV), shouldnt they function similarly? I'd be ok with the current forges if the railguns were returned to their former glory. Currently, a forge and tank squaring off, I see forges win everytime, especially if its a railtank. As for missiles, missiles should have splash as they should be ok at AI and AV. Railguns and blasters are more specialized.
Then may I add that you should provide a link to your railgun post so others may support it. |
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Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.11.06 03:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zion Shad wrote:Paran Tadec wrote: I said the same thing about railguns, in regards to their ability to kill infantry ( a railgun round landing near you should have enough splash to kill you) but CCP felt otherwise and nerfed the **** out of them. Being as forgegun and railgun have similar roles (AV), shouldnt they function similarly? I'd be ok with the current forges if the railguns were returned to their former glory. Currently, a forge and tank squaring off, I see forges win everytime, especially if its a railtank. As for missiles, missiles should have splash as they should be ok at AI and AV. Railguns and blasters are more specialized.
Then may I add that you should provide a link to your railgun post so others may support it.
I would but it was months go. Nearly impossible to find.
Another thing I've suggested in the past was to make the large missile launcher on the tank an AA weapon, requiring a lock, while the small ones would just become "rocket" launchers, similarly to eve. |
Zion Shad
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
1620
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Posted - 2012.11.06 05:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:
Then may I add that you should provide a link to your railgun post so others may support it. I would but it was months go. Nearly impossible to find.
Another thing I've suggested in the past was to make the large missile launcher on the tank an AA weapon, requiring a lock, while the small ones would just become "rocket" launchers, similarly to eve.
I can agree with this idea. It would leave blasters as the only anit-Infantry large turret on HAVs for the time being. We do have to test a few other turrets once they are released, but I can see this working |
xMarauder
Doomheim
139
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Posted - 2012.11.06 06:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm all for making the forge gun a better AV weapon. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 07:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zion Shad wrote:IGÇÖm asking that Forge guns get a slight increase in Accuracy and Range to combat what people are calling OP Dropships. I donGÇÖt see this as a problem when Forge guns have no zoom function in the first place.
Thanks
Meh, problem is more about SL than FG. Could be a temp fix until fixing SL but will create another kind of disbalance imo. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 08:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
No. I've spent like, a few days using the forge gun (only recently got it unlocked) and I can hit nearly every shot on Dropships and every single shot on a tank, just working on my infantry sniping now. It's quite ridiculous someone even wants it to be more accurate, again, No. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
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Posted - 2012.11.06 08:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:No. I've spent like, a few days using the forge gun (only recently got it unlocked) and I can hit nearly every shot on Dropships and every single shot on a tank, just working on my infantry sniping now. It's quite ridiculous someone even wants it to be more accurate, again, No. there are people who want to increase tanks to even more ridiculousness. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 08:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:No. I've spent like, a few days using the forge gun (only recently got it unlocked) and I can hit nearly every shot on Dropships and every single shot on a tank, just working on my infantry sniping now. It's quite ridiculous someone even wants it to be more accurate, again, No. there are people who want to increase tanks to even more ridiculousness.
Tank damage output should be decreased, it's ability to TANK should be increased ^_^, that's all I feel is necessary. Was using a blaster Tank and destroying infantry in 4 shots, haven't even maxed out any turret skils yet so I can't wait to see how that turns out. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
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Posted - 2012.11.06 08:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote: Tank damage output should be decreased, it's ability to TANK should be increased ^_^, that's all I feel is necessary. Was using a blaster Tank and destroying infantry in 4 shots, haven't even maxed out any turret skils yet so I can't wait to see how that turns out.
tanks can tank just fine. it takes an entire team to make a tank turn around and run back to their hole. an entire mountain lighting up with swarms is practically the only way to push them away from a point let alone destroy it.
there needs to be another seat the pilot should not get the main damage source.
this discussion is over talk about forge guns |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
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Posted - 2012.11.06 09:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:Jason Pearson wrote: Tank damage output should be decreased, it's ability to TANK should be increased ^_^, that's all I feel is necessary. Was using a blaster Tank and destroying infantry in 4 shots, haven't even maxed out any turret skils yet so I can't wait to see how that turns out.
tanks can tank just fine. it takes an entire team to make a tank turn around and run back to their hole. an entire mountain lighting up with swarms is practically the only way to push them away from a point let alone destroy it. there needs to be another seat the pilot should not get the main damage source. this discussion is over talk about forge guns
How about instead of using Militia Swarms, use a Forge Gun or PROPER Swarms, I mean, I've built a bad tank and I get all these militia scrubs chasing me. The only thing that will take out a tank is proper AV, not the militia swarms everyones entitled too. You're the guy that brought up tanks fella, and Forge Guns and Tanks go hand in hand anyways.
Forge Guns don't need accuracy buff, end of. |
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
192
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Posted - 2012.11.06 12:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:No. I've spent like, a few days using the forge gun (only recently got it unlocked) and I can hit nearly every shot on Dropships and every single shot on a tank, just working on my infantry sniping now. It's quite ridiculous someone even wants it to be more accurate, again, No. there are people who want to increase tanks to even more ridiculousness.
There are people who cry about not killing proto tanks solo too and also prove they have no clue on the subject in various threads on the matter....
Back OT.
The forge in it's current state is already a jack of all trades, if you know how to use it or are fairly competant at it. As I keep saying the thing can be used as a AA, AI and AV weapon. You can also snipe with it, yet you want it buffed even more?. My god
If anything it needs a huge nerf or to become more specialised. It's as bad as missile turrets yet nobody whines about it because it's the only thing that can kill dropships at the moment. Go figure. |
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xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
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Posted - 2012.11.06 14:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ty
I had a bigger response but the forum gremlins yet again got it. But
No to a nerf.
And in response to the suggestion I will instead raise you with a demand for a 400% buff.....
Also sniping infantry on the move is pretty hard as far as I can see due to tight and relatively low splash damage etc - I maybe rubbish with it though as admittedly this is my first build trying to use the forge gun. And instead I seem to be sniped instantly if I try.
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Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.11.06 15:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg wrote:Necrodermis wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:No. I've spent like, a few days using the forge gun (only recently got it unlocked) and I can hit nearly every shot on Dropships and every single shot on a tank, just working on my infantry sniping now. It's quite ridiculous someone even wants it to be more accurate, again, No. there are people who want to increase tanks to even more ridiculousness. There are people who cry about not killing proto tanks solo too and also prove they have no clue on the subject in various threads on the matter.... Back OT. The forge in it's current state is already a jack of all trades, if you know how to use it or are fairly competant at it. As I keep saying the thing can be used as a AA, AI and AV weapon. You can also snipe with it, yet you want it buffed even more?. My god If anything it needs a huge nerf or to become more specialised. It's as bad as missile turrets yet nobody whines about it because it's the only thing that can kill dropships at the moment. Go figure.
I know right? |
Kain Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
907
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Posted - 2012.11.06 15:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
They have made it harder to hit infantry in every build with the forge. Personally, I don't think the forges need a range buff. They feel just about right.
People keep trying to fix the wrong things. Limit missile flight time (range) and tie it to skills and give dropships back some of their flight ceiling. Fix the pathing for the swarms and kill the impluse (the physics push) of the swarms on dropships.
Forge guns really don't need a nerf.
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Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.11.06 15:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:They have made it harder to hit infantry in every build with the forge. Personally, I don't think the forges need a range buff. They feel just about right.
People keep trying to fix the wrong things. Limit missile flight time (range) and tie it to skills and give dropships back some of their flight ceiling. Fix the pathing for the swarms and kill the impluse (the physics push) of the swarms on dropships.
Forge guns really don't need a nerf.
If you don't limit the range of the forge, then dropships can never be used as dropships, and will just be used as gunships until something replaces them. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
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Posted - 2012.11.06 16:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Kain Spero wrote:They have made it harder to hit infantry in every build with the forge. Personally, I don't think the forges need a range buff. They feel just about right.
People keep trying to fix the wrong things. Limit missile flight time (range) and tie it to skills and give dropships back some of their flight ceiling. Fix the pathing for the swarms and kill the impluse (the physics push) of the swarms on dropships.
Forge guns really don't need a nerf.
If you don't limit the range of the forge, then dropships can never be used as dropships, and will just be used as gunships until something replaces them.
forge range is fine (tanks and snipers snipe right across the map)
you can stop dropships being gunships by removing the missiles so they arent an attack ship - introduce a cannon or something - so dropships actually fly and drop/ move infantry around the maps.
jets are coming etc...
dropships should be dropships |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.11.06 16:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
xAckie wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Kain Spero wrote:They have made it harder to hit infantry in every build with the forge. Personally, I don't think the forges need a range buff. They feel just about right.
People keep trying to fix the wrong things. Limit missile flight time (range) and tie it to skills and give dropships back some of their flight ceiling. Fix the pathing for the swarms and kill the impluse (the physics push) of the swarms on dropships.
Forge guns really don't need a nerf.
If you don't limit the range of the forge, then dropships can never be used as dropships, and will just be used as gunships until something replaces them. forge range is fine (tanks and snipers snipe right across the map) you can stop dropships being gunships by removing the missiles so they arent an attack ship - introduce a cannon or something - so dropships actually fly and drop/ move infantry around the maps. jets are coming etc... dropships should be dropships
Dropships can't function as dropships when you have a handheld instadeath weapon like the forgegun. It needs shorter range, for a whole host of reasons. Sure, you could use a tank with a railgun for the same thing, but why would you? the tracking is terrible and it puts out half as much damage.
Dropships shouldnt be limited to what they can fit because swarms dont work. Fix swarms and the circle of doom dropships will disappear for all but the most skilled pilots. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
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Posted - 2012.11.06 16:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:xAckie wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Kain Spero wrote:They have made it harder to hit infantry in every build with the forge. Personally, I don't think the forges need a range buff. They feel just about right.
People keep trying to fix the wrong things. Limit missile flight time (range) and tie it to skills and give dropships back some of their flight ceiling. Fix the pathing for the swarms and kill the impluse (the physics push) of the swarms on dropships.
Forge guns really don't need a nerf.
If you don't limit the range of the forge, then dropships can never be used as dropships, and will just be used as gunships until something replaces them. forge range is fine (tanks and snipers snipe right across the map) you can stop dropships being gunships by removing the missiles so they arent an attack ship - introduce a cannon or something - so dropships actually fly and drop/ move infantry around the maps. jets are coming etc... dropships should be dropships Dropships can't function as dropships when you have a handheld instadeath weapon like the forgegun. It needs shorter range, for a whole host of reasons. Sure, you could use a tank with a railgun for the same thing, but why would you? the tracking is terrible and it puts out half as much damage. Dropships shouldnt be limited to what they can fit because swarms dont work. Fix swarms and the circle of doom dropships will disappear for all but the most skilled pilots.
dropships should be limited to what they can do as part of their their vehicle class. It is a dropship. Jets are coming and we dont know what other vehicle classes are too.
If tanks can hide and snipe across the map against infantry, then in my view forge gunners should be able to hit them back across the map. Snipers can already shoot from behind the reline to the other spawn as a counter to this.
(As an aside I think sniping and vehicle balance generally is broke along with the maps at the moment - but frot eh maps at least I hope some structures are coming)..
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Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.11.06 20:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
xAckie wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:xAckie wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Kain Spero wrote:They have made it harder to hit infantry in every build with the forge. Personally, I don't think the forges need a range buff. They feel just about right.
People keep trying to fix the wrong things. Limit missile flight time (range) and tie it to skills and give dropships back some of their flight ceiling. Fix the pathing for the swarms and kill the impluse (the physics push) of the swarms on dropships.
Forge guns really don't need a nerf.
If you don't limit the range of the forge, then dropships can never be used as dropships, and will just be used as gunships until something replaces them. forge range is fine (tanks and snipers snipe right across the map) you can stop dropships being gunships by removing the missiles so they arent an attack ship - introduce a cannon or something - so dropships actually fly and drop/ move infantry around the maps. jets are coming etc... dropships should be dropships Dropships can't function as dropships when you have a handheld instadeath weapon like the forgegun. It needs shorter range, for a whole host of reasons. Sure, you could use a tank with a railgun for the same thing, but why would you? the tracking is terrible and it puts out half as much damage. Dropships shouldnt be limited to what they can fit because swarms dont work. Fix swarms and the circle of doom dropships will disappear for all but the most skilled pilots. dropships should be limited to what they can do as part of their their vehicle class. It is a dropship. Jets are coming and we dont know what other vehicle classes are too. If tanks can hide and snipe across the map against infantry, then in my view forge gunners should be able to hit them back across the map. Snipers can already shoot from behind the reline to the other spawn as a counter to this. (As an aside I think sniping and vehicle balance generally is broke along with the maps at the moment - but frot eh maps at least I hope some structures are coming)..
They will be limited, once swarms are fixed. Removing or barring certain weapons from dropships just to suit whiners serves no one. They could lower the damage on missiles if they fix the issue of weapons and moving vehicles.
Using your argument, the railgun should be returned to splash 5, because if a forgegun can snipe infantry across the map, so should a tank with a railgun. Read around the forums, I'm not the only one who is saying the forge is a jack of all trades gun that does well at everything, AI, AA and AV. All I have suggested is giving the forge a more limited role, and removing its capability to insta-OHK any infantry, which was the biggest complaint about railguns 2 builds ago. Sure, you can do the same with missiles but only if they are right on a person. The majority of people I'v killed with missiles are wearing milita or std gear anyways, not seeing many people run adv or proto, so you can't be begging for nerfs yet.
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Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.11.06 20:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Plus, I bet you will come here and cry about there being tons of snipers on maps that you cant reach to kill, and since the dropship only has blasters after that point, it can't get close enough to do anything, especially if they are carrying AV grenades... |
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