DUST Search - Missiles OP? or is because of circumstance?

Second Cerberus wrote:

Phantom Eren wrote:

Sephirian Fair wrote:

XT-1 Accelerated Missile Launcher:
Direct Damage: 455.0 HP
Splash Damage: 260.0 HP
Blast Radius: 5 meters

Using two 20% damage modules gives around 35% damage increase, and Turret skills gives another 20% damage increase. their is 55% more damage on turrets. LetGÇÖs run the numbers again.

Damage Modifiers included:
Direct Damage: 705.25 HP
Splash Damage: 403.0 HP

this was written by one of the dropship pilots a Zion TCD in our private forums. he has a point missile turrets are really really OP
(it's not a direct quote to prevent data leaks)

Pretty sure turret proficiency is 3% per level for a total of 15% dmg increase, not 20%.

Also, I think you are quoting the information for the XT-1, not the XT-1 Accelerated model. The accelerated models have a .08 instead of 1.6 cycle but lower damage. The accelerated XT has the same stats for the lower power AT-1 which I believe is 420 direct and 240 splash. So to clarify, the numbers I see are 630 direct with Turret Prof and Dmg Mods. Still substantial, but not exactly 705. Please feel free to correct me if the stats in the store show differently, but missile turrets are OP enough they don't need exaggerated.

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.07 12:54:00 - [31] - Quote Last i checked i remember small railguns having the top dps output on its base stats But dont bother ive lost hope with this community everything gonna get nerfed and no one can see past the short term, long term this game could be ******
Sephirian Fair ZionTCD Legacy Rising 48	Posted - 2012.11.07 14:31:00 - [32] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Last i checked i remember small railguns having the top dps output on its base stats But dont bother ive lost hope with this community everything gonna get nerfed and no one can see past the short term, long term this game could be ****** I believe you might be correct on DPS potential on Railguns, as I had forgotten what the fire rate for Small Railguns are. If I'm not mistaken, they are .8 seconds compared to the 1.6 seconds of Missile Turrets. Only issue is that small Rails can only fire... I think it is 5 or 6 shots before a very long cooldown. Try not to think of the turret changes as nerfs, though. It does suck to see everything nerfed, but try to work towards more of a readjustment to the purpose of vehicles. If turrets are adjusted to more reasonable levels, it makes the overall state of balance easier to control. It is very difficult to balance anything that has the ability to one-shot infantry (Or even Installations in the case of Missile Turrets.) If turret damages are brought into line, we could see much tankier vehicles come about. In every build that I've been apart of since the E3 build, any issue with Vehicles being called "overpowered" had little to do with the actual vehicle, but entirely to do with the Turrets. In Precursor, the issue with tanks during the first half of that build wasn't because they were incredibly difficult to destroy, but because they could also instant kill everything. The same thing with Dropships this build. If the turrets weren't instant killing infantry all over the map, no one would complain about how difficult they are to shoot down. The vehicle mechanics currently are too similar to Battlefield's. Battlefield's vehicles are these paper thin, die in 2 or 3 hits, but every one of them have something that instant kill infantry or 2 shot another vehicle. The issue with Dust right now, is that the vehicles are slightly stronger than paper thin, and still kill infantry instantly. To have balance with Vehicles, you cannot have a medium between difficult to destroy and easy to destroy with. CCP needs to pick an extreme and stick with it. The current extreme they are leaning to is like BF's, but the SP and ISK systems they have in place make that extreme very unappealing to anyone who runs vehicles. They have weak vehicles with very strong turrets. Here's an excerpt from the discussion on the TCD forums concerning my thoughts on the matter: "The other extreme is something I feel that fits the Dust/Eve feeling that it already has. And that is, make all Vehicles EXTREMELY difficult to destroy, but gut the turrets. And I donGÇÖt mean by a little, I mean all damages cut by more than half. There should be no reason any turret outside of a very powerful Railgun should be able to one-shot even a basic Assault with a direct hit. Tanks would then become GÇ£tanks,GÇ¥ laying down suppressing fire while soaking up a lot of damage. Dropships would be able to ferry units to various points once the knock-back physics are reeled into place and wonGÇÖt have to worry about leaving their base because name removed is on the other side. YouGÇÖll no longer have Dropships sitting in the air able to one-shot infantry. If they try, their effectiveness will be greatly diminished from what it was before. YouGÇÖll no longer have tanks taking up GÇ£Artillery PositionsGÇ¥ on the side of a mountain in the back of the map, raining hell on the combatants below. TheyGÇÖll be a nuisance, but no more across map instant kills. Personally, thatGÇÖs how I would want Vehicles to be in Dust. If they are paper thin, they are destroyed instantly with little coordination. But if they are difficult to destroy, but arenGÇÖt the instant killing threat they are currently, it leaves a lot more tactical decisions that need to be made to combat them. Laying traps, making ambush positions, strong use of Webifiers when they are released, perhaps use of anti-vehicle mines and the like. And having to juggle how many AV-AI units you have on the field. Is the tank or dropship that big of a threat? Does it need to be destroyed or just distracted and kept away from combat? If they are difficult to destroy, but have lowish to moderate damage, strategy and tactics take a higher precedence. There is no counter play to being instant killed as soon as you spawn." With Dust's current ISK and SP systems, I believe this to be more appealing to vehicle pilots, because their investment is safer, while still able to contribute to the battle in meaningful ways. There is a lot more counter-play involved in a situation like that, where a weapon's strengths and weakness play a part in combat. The stark difference between armor and shield would shrink because of their increased tankiness, and their counters would play a more important part of actually possessing the needed counter, rather than a jack-of-all-trades is currently able to get by with no problem, taking out everything.
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 192	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:12:00 - [33] - Quote 90% of the people commenting here aren't even bothering to read the thread and it shows you to be fools tbh. He's not crying about anything, merely stating facts and telling people why. Yet your all that obsessed or butt hurt about tanks/missiles that you don't even bother to read it. The fact is, as I've stated that many times now it's beyond boring, AV/Turrets/Vehicles are totally off balance. They were last build and the build before and CCP keeps altering the things that work to compound the issue. Missile turrets have always been the king of everything. How many LAV's, Dropships or Tanks use missiles as their secondary and why is that?. It's blatantly because they work well at everything and blasters/rails are useless. If they sort this out then we woudn't see missile spam from anything that is a vehicle. Next we have the fact CCP have been tweaking the large turrets due to "Whines" last build. The problem wasn't the railgun last build or the tanks HP. It was the fact the tanks had a 50% damage mod built in and everyone ran missiles and the fact we'd see 3-4 of them on one team per match. The large blaster was also complained about and that got some love and it now working imo. Now bare in mind what they altered last build, because due to the cries of "nerf" the new standard turret for tanks has become the Large missile. If the large rail was actually any use you'd see the better tankers using that for sure. Couple this with the fact CCP decided to add in damage mods with better stats and lower requirements than dropsuit mods, you can see the issue right?. Next CCP decided it'd be a really good idea to make the turret skills buff damage, which tbh it is, but they did it without even looking at or trying to fix the already broken turrets. Now we have not only tanks that are running about spamming missiles, but ridiculous LAV's and Dropships. The latter of which can't really be countered without a lot of effort.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:39:00 - [34] - Quote complainers achieved that only 1 out off 3 turrets are actual effective, complainers achieved that tank resistance has beeing reduced massive so you can take them on by yourself with a swarm launcher, So tell me the only remaining thing that gives them firepower against infantry should be nerfed down to beeing useless? Are you guys out off your mind? Tanks with a decent fit can easy go over 1 million ISK (gunnlogi) and you want to deal with them easy with a fit that might cost you 10.000 ISK or even free with a starter fit? The mentality off this forum is entertaining. Sure nerf missiles you will get a nice payback when artillery is getting spammed from inside off the redline when it gets released.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:13:00 - [35] - Quote MSISSILES?!?!?! FORGET THAT, RAILGUNS ARE TOO OP AND NEEDS NERFING. EVERYTIME I SEE THAT OP TURRET SHOOTING AT ME I LOOSE MY TANKS IN SECONDS. CCP WY HAVE YOU NOT FIXED THIS, I CAN'T DODGE IT AND THE DAMAGE IS TOO HIGH. I TRIED USING DROPSHIPS BUT NOOOOOOOO, THE GUY TREATED THAT LIKE AN I WIN BUTTON AND KILLED ME MID-AIR AS I EXIT THE BURNING DROPSHIP. CCP, FIX THIS NAO!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!!!111 ... Ok so on a serious note, effectiveness of missiles vs armor needs to be removed as well as reducing the dmg bonus of mods by half. Not sure why the change wasn't implemented yet even after the GM referees witnessed it's strength in the tourny. As for dropships, there should reduced damage output just like the logistics LAV, after all it's a "dropship" not a gunship.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:42:00 - [36] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: there should reduced damage output just like the logistics LAV, after all it's a "dropship" not a gunship. I know a quite a few people who wont be happy about this post LOL.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2012.11.07 21:17:00 - [37] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: there should reduced damage output just like the logistics LAV, after all it's a "dropship" not a gunship. I know a quite a few people who wont be happy about this post LOL. Dropship prices get lower and then it's ok.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.08 14:03:00 - [38] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: complainers achieved that only 1 out off 3 turrets are actual effective, complainers achieved that tank resistance has beeing reduced massive so you can take them on by yourself with a swarm launcher, So tell me the only remaining thing that gives them firepower against infantry should be nerfed down to beeing useless? Are you guys out off your mind? Tanks with a decent fit can easy go over 1 million ISK (gunnlogi) and you want to deal with them easy with a fit that might cost you 10.000 ISK or even free with a starter fit? The mentality off this forum is entertaining. Sure nerf missiles you will get a nice payback when artillery is getting spammed from inside off the redline when it gets released. Yea but cloud when that happens the majority of this idiot community will once again cry nerf against artillery, they will cry nerf against any turrets if its kills infantry until they are all useless and tanks as a whole become pointless to use
Kein-Engel Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 45	Posted - 2012.11.08 16:01:00 - [39] - Quote Second Cerberus wrote: Phantom Eren wrote: Sephirian Fair wrote: XT-1 Accelerated Missile Launcher: Direct Damage: 455.0 HP Splash Damage: 260.0 HP Blast Radius: 5 meters Using two 20% damage modules gives around 35% damage increase, and Turret skills gives another 20% damage increase. their is 55% more damage on turrets. LetGÇÖs run the numbers again. Damage Modifiers included: Direct Damage: 705.25 HP Splash Damage: 403.0 HP this was written by one of the dropship pilots a Zion TCD in our private forums. he has a point missile turrets are really really OP (it's not a direct quote to prevent data leaks) Pretty sure turret proficiency is 3% per level for a total of 15% dmg increase, not 20%. Also, I think you are quoting the information for the XT-1, not the XT-1 Accelerated model. The accelerated models have a .08 instead of 1.6 cycle but lower damage. The accelerated XT has the same stats for the lower power AT-1 which I believe is 420 direct and 240 splash. So to clarify, the numbers I see are 630 direct with Turret Prof and Dmg Mods. Still substantial, but not exactly 705. Please feel free to correct me if the stats in the store show differently, but missile turrets are OP enough they don't need exaggerated. The Cycled missiles have a fire rate of 0.8. I think the damage on the accelerated I'd the same as the regular missiles, they just fly through the air faster.
ugg reset ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2012.11.08 16:21:00 - [40] - Quote SOONGäó? [FEEDBACK/ISSUE] Dropships and Missiles imbalance Update: A number of tweaks and improvements to missiles have been made and are planned for deployment in the next beta update/hotfixes. Some of the changes include improvements to missile tracking and speed stats, more tuning for the small and large missile turrets. Countermeasures are also planned for future updates.

Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 634	Posted - 2012.11.08 19:01:00 - [41] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Last i checked i remember small railguns having the top dps output on its base stats Numbers since last build: Top small rail dps = 275.55 Proto small missile dps = 284.37 (cycled = 426.5) That's direct damage, splash damage isn't even close.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.08 19:04:00 - [42] - Quote Last build? We aint on last build we on this build
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 634	Posted - 2012.11.08 19:08:00 - [43] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Last build? We aint on last build we on this build Numbers have been the same on those since last build.
Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 320	Posted - 2012.11.08 19:45:00 - [44] - Quote Missiles are OP _AND_ rails/blasters are severly Underpowered. Theres no reason to use the other two weapon systemms.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1062	Posted - 2012.11.09 02:59:00 - [45] - Quote I know how we can balance missiles! give them swarm tracking! Oh wait, that might be an overnerf. Reimus Klinsman wrote: Missiles are OP _AND_ rails/blasters are severly Underpowered. Theres no reason to use the other two weapon systemms. I think railguns are exactly where they need to be. Large blasters are OK, but small blasters need a major range/accuracy boost
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.09 10:17:00 - [46] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I know how we can balance missiles! give them swarm tracking! Oh wait, that might be an overnerf. Reimus Klinsman wrote: Missiles are OP _AND_ rails/blasters are severly Underpowered. Theres no reason to use the other two weapon systemms. I think railguns are exactly where they need to be. Large blasters are OK, but small blasters need a major range/accuracy boost Railguns turn too slow


Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page