DUST Search - Missiles OP? or is because of circumstance?

Second Cerberus wrote:

Phantom Eren wrote:

Sephirian Fair wrote:

XT-1 Accelerated Missile Launcher:
Direct Damage: 455.0 HP
Splash Damage: 260.0 HP
Blast Radius: 5 meters

Using two 20% damage modules gives around 35% damage increase, and Turret skills gives another 20% damage increase. their is 55% more damage on turrets. LetGÇÖs run the numbers again.

Damage Modifiers included:
Direct Damage: 705.25 HP
Splash Damage: 403.0 HP

this was written by one of the dropship pilots a Zion TCD in our private forums. he has a point missile turrets are really really OP
(it's not a direct quote to prevent data leaks)

Pretty sure turret proficiency is 3% per level for a total of 15% dmg increase, not 20%.

Also, I think you are quoting the information for the XT-1, not the XT-1 Accelerated model. The accelerated models have a .08 instead of 1.6 cycle but lower damage. The accelerated XT has the same stats for the lower power AT-1 which I believe is 420 direct and 240 splash. So to clarify, the numbers I see are 630 direct with Turret Prof and Dmg Mods. Still substantial, but not exactly 705. Please feel free to correct me if the stats in the store show differently, but missile turrets are OP enough they don't need exaggerated.


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Sephirian Fair ZionTCD Legacy Rising 48	Posted - 2012.11.07 00:08:00 - [1] - Quote Second Cerberus wrote: Phantom Eren wrote: Sephirian Fair wrote: XT-1 Accelerated Missile Launcher: Direct Damage: 455.0 HP Splash Damage: 260.0 HP Blast Radius: 5 meters Using two 20% damage modules gives around 35% damage increase, and Turret skills gives another 20% damage increase. their is 55% more damage on turrets. LetGÇÖs run the numbers again. Damage Modifiers included: Direct Damage: 705.25 HP Splash Damage: 403.0 HP this was written by one of the dropship pilots a Zion TCD in our private forums. he has a point missile turrets are really really OP (it's not a direct quote to prevent data leaks) Pretty sure turret proficiency is 3% per level for a total of 15% dmg increase, not 20%. Also, I think you are quoting the information for the XT-1, not the XT-1 Accelerated model. The accelerated models have a .08 instead of 1.6 cycle but lower damage. The accelerated XT has the same stats for the lower power AT-1 which I believe is 420 direct and 240 splash. So to clarify, the numbers I see are 630 direct with Turret Prof and Dmg Mods. Still substantial, but not exactly 705. Please feel free to correct me if the stats in the store show differently, but missile turrets are OP enough they don't need exaggerated. There's no exaggeration. That information comes from a discussion on the Zion TCD forums and is accurate pertaining to the skills of my designated Gunner. He has Turret Op Level 4 which gives 8% increase and Missile Turret Op Level 4 which gives 12%, and I run two 20% Damage Modifiers on my rig. Those numbers are near exact, with a +or- of around 1-2 percent based on the severity of stacking penalties. I believe I may even be slightly under the exact percentage, meaning the turret has a little more power than I stated. The accelerated Missile Turrets fire a faster moving missile, but has the same damage output as the standard Missile Launcher. You are thinking of the Cycled one, which possesses lesser damage along with having a much smaller blast radius, but fire at a faster rate. As you can see by those numbers, my gunner will one-shot anything short of a Heavy with just his splash damage. With a Direct hit, he'll instant kill a Militia Heavy suit and leave higher grade suits in critical. As for you, English Snake, which Railguns would you like me to run through? Small ones? Well, I don't have to even run numbers to let you know that Small Missile Turrets do more direct damage than Small Railguns do. I've not run any numbers on Large Railguns.
Sephirian Fair ZionTCD Legacy Rising 48	Posted - 2012.11.07 14:31:00 - [2] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Last i checked i remember small railguns having the top dps output on its base stats But dont bother ive lost hope with this community everything gonna get nerfed and no one can see past the short term, long term this game could be ****** I believe you might be correct on DPS potential on Railguns, as I had forgotten what the fire rate for Small Railguns are. If I'm not mistaken, they are .8 seconds compared to the 1.6 seconds of Missile Turrets. Only issue is that small Rails can only fire... I think it is 5 or 6 shots before a very long cooldown. Try not to think of the turret changes as nerfs, though. It does suck to see everything nerfed, but try to work towards more of a readjustment to the purpose of vehicles. If turrets are adjusted to more reasonable levels, it makes the overall state of balance easier to control. It is very difficult to balance anything that has the ability to one-shot infantry (Or even Installations in the case of Missile Turrets.) If turret damages are brought into line, we could see much tankier vehicles come about. In every build that I've been apart of since the E3 build, any issue with Vehicles being called "overpowered" had little to do with the actual vehicle, but entirely to do with the Turrets. In Precursor, the issue with tanks during the first half of that build wasn't because they were incredibly difficult to destroy, but because they could also instant kill everything. The same thing with Dropships this build. If the turrets weren't instant killing infantry all over the map, no one would complain about how difficult they are to shoot down. The vehicle mechanics currently are too similar to Battlefield's. Battlefield's vehicles are these paper thin, die in 2 or 3 hits, but every one of them have something that instant kill infantry or 2 shot another vehicle. The issue with Dust right now, is that the vehicles are slightly stronger than paper thin, and still kill infantry instantly. To have balance with Vehicles, you cannot have a medium between difficult to destroy and easy to destroy with. CCP needs to pick an extreme and stick with it. The current extreme they are leaning to is like BF's, but the SP and ISK systems they have in place make that extreme very unappealing to anyone who runs vehicles. They have weak vehicles with very strong turrets. Here's an excerpt from the discussion on the TCD forums concerning my thoughts on the matter: "The other extreme is something I feel that fits the Dust/Eve feeling that it already has. And that is, make all Vehicles EXTREMELY difficult to destroy, but gut the turrets. And I donGÇÖt mean by a little, I mean all damages cut by more than half. There should be no reason any turret outside of a very powerful Railgun should be able to one-shot even a basic Assault with a direct hit. Tanks would then become GÇ£tanks,GÇ¥ laying down suppressing fire while soaking up a lot of damage. Dropships would be able to ferry units to various points once the knock-back physics are reeled into place and wonGÇÖt have to worry about leaving their base because name removed is on the other side. YouGÇÖll no longer have Dropships sitting in the air able to one-shot infantry. If they try, their effectiveness will be greatly diminished from what it was before. YouGÇÖll no longer have tanks taking up GÇ£Artillery PositionsGÇ¥ on the side of a mountain in the back of the map, raining hell on the combatants below. TheyGÇÖll be a nuisance, but no more across map instant kills. Personally, thatGÇÖs how I would want Vehicles to be in Dust. If they are paper thin, they are destroyed instantly with little coordination. But if they are difficult to destroy, but arenGÇÖt the instant killing threat they are currently, it leaves a lot more tactical decisions that need to be made to combat them. Laying traps, making ambush positions, strong use of Webifiers when they are released, perhaps use of anti-vehicle mines and the like. And having to juggle how many AV-AI units you have on the field. Is the tank or dropship that big of a threat? Does it need to be destroyed or just distracted and kept away from combat? If they are difficult to destroy, but have lowish to moderate damage, strategy and tactics take a higher precedence. There is no counter play to being instant killed as soon as you spawn." With Dust's current ISK and SP systems, I believe this to be more appealing to vehicle pilots, because their investment is safer, while still able to contribute to the battle in meaningful ways. There is a lot more counter-play involved in a situation like that, where a weapon's strengths and weakness play a part in combat. The stark difference between armor and shield would shrink because of their increased tankiness, and their counters would play a more important part of actually possessing the needed counter, rather than a jack-of-all-trades is currently able to get by with no problem, taking out everything.