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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
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Posted - 2012.10.20 14:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
It has way more shield,but has f**kall for armor,and I've found that I'm actually taking less shots to get killed on with it.So what's the point of actually having it? does anyone see any benefits from using it? |
Icy Tiger
Universal Allies Inc.
1026
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Posted - 2012.10.20 14:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
It has a higher movement rate and sprint speed, and also is a shield type, which automatically makes it better than any others, due to CCP logic. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
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Posted - 2012.10.20 14:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shield repairs faster, and doesn't require you to spend a module slot.
If CCP ever release a Type-II BPO pack like the Type-I weekend offer I'd buy it immediately. It all depends on your playstyle, and when you're avoiding direct frontal confrontations the shield tank is preferable. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
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Posted - 2012.10.20 14:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Shield repairs faster, and doesn't require you to spend a module slot.
If CCP ever release a Type-II BPO pack like the Type-I weekend offer I'd buy it immediately. It all depends on your playstyle, and when you're avoiding direct frontal confrontations the shield tank is preferable. Still seems that higher tier weapons just rip though that shield in no time,and without any armor,you don't really have any survivability at that point. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2012.10.20 14:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
against most weapons, it's just plain better. sure you lose armor, but you gain MORE shields than you lost in armor, for a net gain in total health.
not to mention shields recharge without needing a module.
it also has a small CPU/PG advantage over the type-I
it also moves slightly faster.
so unless everybody on the other team is using laser rifles and scrambler pistols, the type-II is better than the type-I (laser weapons are supposed to deal more damage to shields than other types, but we have no idea by how much. so the type-II might be better even THEN.)
if you're really dieing faster then the only thing i can think of is: do you have mechanics at like 5 but shield management at like 0? seeing as these are % based EHP buffs, the type-I stands to gain more from mechanics as it has higher base armor. that being said i'm not sure, off the top of my head, that the difference is large enough even comparing 5 to 0 for the type-I to ever actually have more total hitpoints. |
Quickgloves
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
327
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 14:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
1 extra module if u fit it right ie = to proto suit meet me in private ill walk u through building it last build my kdr in assualt 2 was 7.8 30- 3 matches regular |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
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Posted - 2012.10.20 15:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:against most weapons, it's just plain better. sure you lose armor, but you gain MORE shields than you lost in armor, for a net gain in total health.
not to mention shields recharge without needing a module.
it also has a small CPU/PG advantage over the type-I
it also moves slightly faster.
so unless everybody on the other team is using laser rifles and scrambler pistols, the type-II is better than the type-I (laser weapons are supposed to deal more damage to shields than other types, but we have no idea by how much. so the type-II might be better even THEN.)
if you're really dieing faster then the only thing i can think of is: do you have mechanics at like 5 but shield management at like 0? seeing as these are % based EHP buffs, the type-I stands to gain more from mechanics as it has higher base armor. that being said i'm not sure, off the top of my head, that the difference is large enough even comparing 5 to 0 for the type-I to ever actually have more total hitpoints. Mechanics level is at 5,and my shield management is at level 3.
IDK,I'm just not seeing the benefits right now,and I have an enhanced shield regulator and a militia shield extender. |
Lonewolf514
79
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Posted - 2012.10.20 15:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
ungodly fits that is your benefit. you cannot beter it in real play.
dont fit it like you would an eve ship , mix and match. same goes for your skill build. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
362
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 15:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Armor is more or less worthless compared to shields. And it's not really just CCP being silly, I understand where that comes from since this takes place in the EVE universe. In EVE (these are just generalizations or course) shield focused ships hit hard and are high offense low defense. Armor tanked ships tend to do less DPS and are low offense high defense. You can see this in the original version of the heavies and there were many tears.
So the type ii assault is vastly superior to the type i due to the increased shields. Leveling the HP across all the suit variations completely removed the usefulness of armor and I believe it is a serious balance issue that needs to be addressed. Currently a heavily shielded assault suit with an AR is so vastly superior to anything else it's more or less mandatory. |
Lonewolf514
79
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Posted - 2012.10.20 15:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quickgloves wrote:1 extra module if u fit it right ie = to proto suit meet me in private ill walk u through building it last build my kdr in assualt 2 was 7.8 30- 3 matches regular
not sure what you just said, but i think you think the same as me. |
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Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2012.10.20 15:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
going off memory here so correct me if my numbers are wrong but:
type-I is 175 base armor, 125 base shields. for 300EHP
type-II is 105 base armor, 225 base shields. for 330EHP (believe armor is 105, used to be 125 but that was super OP.)
so bone stock this gives us a 30 point EHP bonus in favor of the type-II
so lets plug your skills into this, 15% to shields 25% to armor.
with your skills, type-I gets 218.75 armor, 143.75 shields. totaling 362.5 EHP
with your skill, type-II gets 131.25 armor, 258.75 shields. totaling 390 EHP
so skill modded the type-II EHP advantage drops by 2.5 points.. but it's still ahead by 27.5 EHP. and will only catch up if you finish off your shield management skill.
i didn't account for modules because the skills don't effect the modules. you'd just add their amount to those numbers, and the difference would remain the same.
and of course none of this takes into account the type-II having small bonus' in fitting and mobility.
all i can think of is you just got out leveled and unlucky. if everybody ELSE upgrades faster than you. you can get your ass kicked and it can feel like you got downgraded, even though you upgraded.
but don't let me tell you how to play.
EDIT: also bear in mind i don't actually know what the game does with those half points of health. it might round them up, or drop them completely, which would throw the results off a point or 2. but only by a point or 2. |
Lonewolf514
79
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Posted - 2012.10.20 15:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
screw number play the fuckign game. stb guy is right best value build was type 2 with gek. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 15:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Type-II has more overall durability, more CPU/PG, and an extra low slot. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
362
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 15:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Type-II has more overall durability, more CPU/PG, and an extra low slot. Absolutely. More PG/CPU=probably better. Extra slot = definitely better. Except maybe for that advanced heavy suit, still not too sure about that one. |
Lonewolf514
79
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Posted - 2012.10.20 15:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Type-II has more overall durability, more CPU/PG, and an extra low slot. so an awesome build, beter than proto for the money. now if you asked me to build a proto i'd build and play you a better one.
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 15:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ok,I just played a match,and literally took only two shots before I died with the type II suit.Same match with the type I,and was able to take a few more shots.
I'll never use the type II again.The survivability just isn't there for me.I know that he number support that the type II is better,but on the battlefield,it just isn't,and that's the only numbers that really count for me.As they say,the game isn't played on paper. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 15:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Type-II has more overall durability, more CPU/PG, and an extra low slot. Type II doesn't have more CPU,only more PG,which I rarely run low on. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
362
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 15:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Ok,I just played a match,and literally took only two shots before I died with the type II suit.Same match with the type I,and was able to take a few more shots.
I'll never use the type II again.The survivability just isn't there for me.I know that he number support that the type II is better,but on the battlefield,it just isn't,and that's the only numbers that really count for me.As they say,the game isn't played on paper.
You're doing it wrong. I don't mean to be a ****, I mean that you are doing something wrong. More shield skills and better shield upgrades. Type ii is better when you fit it right.
EDIT:Extra low slot could mean more CPU. Just saying. |
Lonewolf514
79
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Posted - 2012.10.20 15:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Ok,I just played a match,and literally took only two shots before I died with the type II suit.Same match with the type I,and was able to take a few more shots.
I'll never use the type II again.The survivability just isn't there for me.I know that he number support that the type II is better,but on the battlefield,it just isn't,and that's the only numbers that really count for me.As they say,the game isn't played on paper.
thats whats key your gamplay might not be like mine
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Lonewolf514
79
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Posted - 2012.10.20 15:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:Ok,I just played a match,and literally took only two shots before I died with the type II suit.Same match with the type I,and was able to take a few more shots.
I'll never use the type II again.The survivability just isn't there for me.I know that he number support that the type II is better,but on the battlefield,it just isn't,and that's the only numbers that really count for me.As they say,the game isn't played on paper. You're doing it wrong. I don't mean to be a ****, I mean that you are doing something wrong. More shield skills and better shield upgrades. Type ii is better when you fit it right. EDIT:Extra low slot could mean more CPU. Just saying. screw that why waste the slot. use what your given. or find. |
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
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Posted - 2012.10.20 16:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:Ok,I just played a match,and literally took only two shots before I died with the type II suit.Same match with the type I,and was able to take a few more shots.
I'll never use the type II again.The survivability just isn't there for me.I know that he number support that the type II is better,but on the battlefield,it just isn't,and that's the only numbers that really count for me.As they say,the game isn't played on paper. You're doing it wrong. I don't mean to be a ****, I mean that you are doing something wrong. More shield skills and better shield upgrades. Type ii is better when you fit it right. EDIT:Extra low slot could mean more CPU. Just saying.
Shield extender, enhanced shield regulator,Shield management level 3,and shield operation level 4.Don't know what else there is to do.
I deleted that fit,and won't use it again.seems that too many weapons are meant to cut through your shield faster,and without any armor,you are toast when your shield is depleted.
I'll just save up for the Type A like I've been intending to do anyway.
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Lonewolf514
79
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Posted - 2012.10.20 16:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
stop thinking defence and think offence. that what that suit is for. maybe wrong didnt decide yet. or maybe a mid offence |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
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Posted - 2012.10.20 16:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lonewolf514 wrote:stop thinking defence and think offence. that what that suit is for. maybe wrong didnt decide yet. or maybe a mid offence Thinking defense,but playing offense.I'm not sitting back waiting,I'm running in,and that suit can't take it,plain and simple.
TBH,I don't notice the speed difference either,so like I said before,I'll never use it again as I see it having no real advantage over the type I,which I seem to play better with. |
Lonewolf514
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 16:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Lonewolf514 wrote:stop thinking defence and think offence. that what that suit is for. maybe wrong didnt decide yet. or maybe a mid offence Thinking defense,but playing offense.I'm not sitting back waiting,I'm running in,and that suit can't take it,plain and simple. TBH,I don't notice the speed difference either,so like I said before,I'll never use it again as I see it having no real advantage over the type I,which I seem to play better with.
thats the **** devs not you. paid to do nothing. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 17:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
There is more to type-II suits than just shield/armor HP as noted above.
Eve/Dust follows the concept of 'Full Metal Alchemist' which refers to equivalent exchange. If you wish to gain something, you must give up something else of equal value and vice versa. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 21:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:There is more to type-II suits than just shield/armor HP as noted above.
Eve/Dust follows the concept of 'Full Metal Alchemist' which refers to equivalent exchange. If you wish to gain something, you must give up something else of equal value and vice versa. Well, that's more than a bit vague. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
362
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 21:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Well, you did ask which was better and I still maintain that the type ii is better, generally. Might not fit your playstyle. If anyone tells you that you have to switch and blah blah blah tell 'em look at your KDR. I switched to type ii last build before i swore off AR's and I died a lot at first. A whole lot. But then I got my style down and a fit I liked. I loved the type ii and did better than ever with it. If you're winning with the type i then wear it.
I guess my only real advice would be use what you like, but if you feel like you just can't go any further with it, then the type ii is a very good suit and might work better for you then.
I shouldn't have told you that you were doing it wrong, earlier. That was my bad. All that matters is that at the end of the day you're still vertical and they aren't. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 23:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Well, you did ask which was better and I still maintain that the type ii is better, generally. Might not fit your playstyle. If anyone tells you that you have to switch and blah blah blah tell 'em look at your KDR. I switched to type ii last build before i swore off AR's and I died a lot at first. A whole lot. But then I got my style down and a fit I liked. I loved the type ii and did better than ever with it. If you're winning with the type i then wear it.
I guess my only real advice would be use what you like, but if you feel like you just can't go any further with it, then the type ii is a very good suit and might work better for you then.
I shouldn't have told you that you were doing it wrong, earlier. That was my bad. All that matters is that at the end of the day you're still vertical and they aren't.
I wasn't asking which one is better per se,because from my experience,the Type I is better for me.I was wondering what advantages the Type II had over the Type I,other than shield.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 00:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Third, if the type 1 works better than the type 2 for you then use the type 1. That's what makes this game great......there is no right or wrong. Dropsuits are customizable to your playstyle. I don't know anyone in my corp that has my exact dropsuits. Its almost like a fingerprint.
I know a 2.48 KDR player with a militia dropsuit. It is all about what works for you and your playstyle. Personally, I don't like the type 1 because my shield gets depleted waaay too fast and then now I just have armor left. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
362
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 00:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Then the advantages are shield and extra slot. And it has more roman numerals in the name so you know it's even more awesomer. |
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
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Posted - 2012.10.21 01:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Then the advantages are shield and extra slot. And it has more roman numerals in the name so you know it's even more awesomer.
Type I has the same amount of slots.
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Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
931
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 01:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
A type II suit with maxed out shield skills, and complex shield extenders can have up to 413 shields
An advanced type II suit can have over 500 shields.
A proto type II suit can have nearly 600 shields.
So yea, they're worth it. |
crazy space
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
879
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 01:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Rasatsu wrote:Shield repairs faster, and doesn't require you to spend a module slot.
If CCP ever release a Type-II BPO pack like the Type-I weekend offer I'd buy it immediately. It all depends on your playstyle, and when you're avoiding direct frontal confrontations the shield tank is preferable. Still seems that higher tier weapons just rip though that shield in no time,and without any armor,you don't really have any survivability at that point.
You misunder stand, you both shoot each other down to half armor. You duck out of the way, and you have faster shield repair. S when you pop back out, your both at full shields but he only has 80 shield, you've got 400 shield. And now you have the hp advantage. You have to play smart.
So lets take notes
Shield tanking : Fast self healing All about getting behind cover and waiting for your shield to repair. This is similar to halo. Shield comes back 40 ticks at a time.
Armor tanking : Buffer tank Where the shield tank has a weakness it's in how many hits you can take. Armor plates add more hp than shield. You do run slower however if you armor tank. Also armor can be repairs during combat, but only at a max with all prototype using all 4 low slots, of around 26 hp/sec. Compare this to a prototype shield repair rate, you can get that sucker up to 85 hp/sec
So the type 2 has a speed bonus on top of not needing armor plates.
The type 1 has the armor plate built into the suit for free. But less shields. Basically each suit has 1 or 2 free modules already built in. So you like to shield tank for the speed and repair, then you get a suit tailored for that. |
Sandromin Hes
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
204
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 01:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:against most weapons, it's just plain better. sure you lose armor, but you gain MORE shields than you lost in armor, for a net gain in total health.
not to mention shields recharge without needing a module.
it also has a small CPU/PG advantage over the type-I
it also moves slightly faster.
so unless everybody on the other team is using laser rifles and scrambler pistols, the type-II is better than the type-I (laser weapons are supposed to deal more damage to shields than other types, but we have no idea by how much. so the type-II might be better even THEN.)
if you're really dieing faster then the only thing i can think of is: do you have mechanics at like 5 but shield management at like 0? seeing as these are % based EHP buffs, the type-I stands to gain more from mechanics as it has higher base armor. that being said i'm not sure, off the top of my head, that the difference is large enough even comparing 5 to 0 for the type-I to ever actually have more total hitpoints.
Laser rifles drop shields very quickly. Thank you for having more shields and less armor for me to rip-through btw. |
crazy space
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
879
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 02:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sandromin Hes wrote:Buzzwords wrote:against most weapons, it's just plain better. sure you lose armor, but you gain MORE shields than you lost in armor, for a net gain in total health.
not to mention shields recharge without needing a module.
it also has a small CPU/PG advantage over the type-I
it also moves slightly faster.
so unless everybody on the other team is using laser rifles and scrambler pistols, the type-II is better than the type-I (laser weapons are supposed to deal more damage to shields than other types, but we have no idea by how much. so the type-II might be better even THEN.)
if you're really dieing faster then the only thing i can think of is: do you have mechanics at like 5 but shield management at like 0? seeing as these are % based EHP buffs, the type-I stands to gain more from mechanics as it has higher base armor. that being said i'm not sure, off the top of my head, that the difference is large enough even comparing 5 to 0 for the type-I to ever actually have more total hitpoints. Laser rifles drop shields very quickly. Thank you for having more shields and less armor for me to rip-through btw. That's the point, that's what makes eve awesome. There is a counter for everything, but it's rock paper sissors, it's a stupidly over complex system you could dive into for years. I'm excited, this game is going to be like the starcraft 2 of fps.
Remember in the current release they almost released the rts commander role. One player gets to drive the MCC. I really think this game is going to pull off something special. Where balance isn't changed with a patch, it's changed due to the meta game. The real loss will help with that. |
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