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Dzark Kill
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2012.10.17 16:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:TiMeSpLiT--TeR wrote:AV is now a landmine. A small, hard to detect mine with a unexplained attraction to vehicle hulls.
Magnet, I know science fiction is OP'd oh wait google just told me they exist already
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Alldin Kan
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
169
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Posted - 2012.10.17 16:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Dzark Kill wrote:Magnet, I know science fiction is OP'd oh wait google just told me they exist already
Oh the feels you get for wanting to reply like that -_- |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.10.17 17:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dzark Kill wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:
So 1 guy is still able to kill a tank with next to no SP investement at all and with little risk to himself with a big reward?
This is taking into account that it seems to need 4 ppl to get the 1 SL milita guy, i wouldnt mind if the guy had advanced/proto gear but the fact is the majority dont even bother
Every militia weapon can kill the enemy. Why should tank be immune to milita. Since your probably talkin about a milita tank too. I've put 2 mil SP into AR. Why do I die when a militia weapon shoots me? If the tank is sat in the open thinking he's god then a milita SL should very well destroy him. 1guy with a militia SL will not kill a fully supported tank. SL guy needs to hit you 3/4 times. You hit him 1 time he's dead end of. You have the upper hand. He can fire at you. You and 2 gunners can fire at him. If he's causing you an issue you ain't doing it right. So how did you get into a fully Proto fit tank with the SP cap? And even if you are why should proto be immune to militia. As a tank you have very few threats, use cover use team mates and tanks are fine.
Milita tanks dying to milita stuff is fine since its equal just like proto kills proto stuff
Im on about 1 milita guy being able to cause serious damage to a gunlogi or even the sagaris on his own with very little invested in skills
Milita gear is ther to be used but really it should scratch the paintwork at best, if milita can do just a good as job as AV then why bother really skilling up for anything higher which costs more isk and SP |
Sparten 269
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
89
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Posted - 2012.10.17 17:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:EnglishSnake wrote: A tank isnt a tank if i cannot do its job
True! And a tank is mainly to support infantry not be the infantry! You take any major tank battle;- its main objective is to suppress the enemy so that the infantry can push forward. EnglishSnake wrote:
Half the time my tank is on the run even if i have all gunners slots filled with MI support because a guy spamming SL up on the hill is enough to back me off, i try to go in front blap a few things and cover my infantry instead i find an AV minefield and a guy spamming the milita SL so its safer for me to come in behind the MI which isnt the point of a tank
1 guy with milita SL? are you serious my tank should shrugg tht off like its nothing
This just means your gunners dont know what to do. If I were your gunner and someone was swarming your tank, I would jump out and shoot the swarmer in the face! Most blue dot gunners I have seen love to stay in the tank till its blown up or steal it! A tip: Have a sniper as a gunner and stay away from the blue dots! EnglishSnake wrote:
You can have a 50k AV fit or less even and destroy a tank worth half a mil or even the 1.3mil tanks excluding the mods on your own
Thats not a tank thats free pts and free kills
True but you can have a guy with a militia loadout take out the guy with the 50 K AV outfit. If someone is firing at your tank, his focus is on your tank and nothing else. If should be easy to take him out! EnglishSnake wrote: That game you were in had 8ppl combined, at least 4 would be after you which is fine they worked together but you dont even need that, 1 guy on his own can kill a tank no problem
It doesnt matter if its 8 people or 16 people! A good squad of 3 or 4 should be able to hold a choke point! The lesson learned by my squad mates was to invest in skills that would help defend choke points!
Its very rare for people to support a tank in a pub match, and for tanks to be an infantry supporter is plain not true. A tank is a vehicle capable of holding it's own against enemy AV/infantry, it should take a team to destroy a tank not a single man. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.10.18 12:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
EDIT
9. AV mines/nades - They cannot be destroyed, i can see them and i fire at them with my large missile turret and they shrug it off like i hit them with air, nades should go off after 5 seconds anyways like i covered but mines should be destroyed with any type of weapon when you fire at it tbh, they are not a hardened structure a mile under the ground its a damn mine
10. Turret on the front of the HAV - If an LAV hits the front of your HAV at full speed while your pretty much at full speed or so it will blow up but it will take the guy in the front turret also, he is in the tank tho he should not die since he is protected by my shields and armor
11. Swarm Launcher - Should not be able to lock on through the mountain so when you pop up you can instantly spam your missiles and then hide again and rinse and repeat
12. Vehicle controls - I would like to swap them about tbh, R2/L2 for forward and reverse, R1/L1 kept the same, Left analog kept for direction, R3 for turret movement, the booster would also move moved to R3 then when the wheel pops up you flick it in the direction of the booster you want to use and it activates - Either way i would think it be better if we could have alternate controls because frankly moving the tank about while firing the main turret screws up your direction
13. Reversing in a HAV - the camera should change so it shows you where you are reversing instead of basically guessing and praying ther isnt a bunch of rocks you will hit or some other crap which is littered about, i cant turn my turret around quick enough either and when i do turn my turret for some reason it also changes my direction |
Dzark Kill
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2012.10.18 13:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:
Milita tanks dying to milita stuff is fine since its equal just like proto kills proto stuff
Im on about 1 milita guy being able to cause serious damage to a gunlogi or even the sagaris on his own with very little invested in skills
Milita gear is ther to be used but really it should scratch the paintwork at best, if milita can do just a good as job as AV then why bother really skilling up for anything higher which costs more isk and SP
I think CCP's vision is that a noob starting in militia should have every chance to defend himself and kill the enemy regardless of enemies equipement. If you ignore tanks for a moment any militia build you can think of can cause serious damage to the proto equivalent. ie in a proto assault suit with proto weapons and mods i can still get seriously damagd from a malitia guy with no skills. I have the advantage with the proto stuff but it definately isnt an I WIN button.
Ive seen lots of games with tanks, ive seen lots of tanks take spankings from numerous militia fit AV dudes and the tank has managed to amble away and repair.
Are you sure its 1 guy in militia fit that keeps killing your tank? It possible you were hit a number of times by a skiled AV with a proto/aur SL and the lucky bugger in milita got the killing blow. A guy hiding behind a wall may have threw a few AV nades at you just before the Militia dude hit.
a milita SL doesnt 1 shot a tank, it can do a fair amount of damage to a badly fit tank.
The point of proto SL is the same as the point of any proto equipment it give an advatage over the militia variants. So a proto SL will kill you quicker than a militia SL.
As stated earlier everything can kill everything else except for tanks and dropship to kill them you need 1 of a few tools. Tanks therefore have a massive advantage, I cannot do anything to a tank with a pistol, AR sniper etc etc.
There needs to be a counter for everything and no equipement should be useless in every given senario. CQC guys are weak to range, mid range guys are weak to snipers/CQC guys. Snipers are weak in CQC. Heavies are weak to range. AV's are weak to infantry. TANKS are strong against everything and with 3 turrets can take anything down in seconds. There is no issue with Tanks at all. As with Eve dont use what you cannot afford to lose.
Edit to add an Eve example;
A titan in EVE with fittings can cost you ~150 billion Isk. (60 day GT code go for about 1 billion isk - so RL equivalent of 150 x $34.99). No you have your $4000 ship what do you think will happen when you go traveling around on your own, I can guarentee you wont last very long unles you have a large amount of support ships. Theoretically I could fly to you in a 100 milllion ISK Battleship and circle and destroy you. Team games require teams and therefore even in your tank you should still be required to use support to stand any chance of survival. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.10.18 14:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
I dont skill up anything apart from if its tank releated
I use milita everything except on a tank and do okay with it and destroy tanks with milita it if the rare one appears use milita weapons and mods and do okayish, i dont expect to do well because i havnt invested points into weapons or better mods and equipment so i dont always expect to kill
As for is it a 'milita AV guy' it mostly is i can tell these days but ther is the odd person who i think does use advanced or so or prob the AUR ones if ther is any and they are turning up a bit more plus you can tell by the number of missiles which are fired and i count them as they turn the corner to hit my HAV as its behind the cover of a mountain
Plus i havnt lost a tank in days tbh except when the framerate dropped to 1 and it got blown up while my screen was frozen which i dont count for obv reasons because i couldnt do anything while frozen
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Dzark Kill
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2012.10.18 14:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:I dont skill up anything apart from if its tank releated
I use milita everything except on a tank and do okay with it and destroy tanks with milita it if the rare one appears use milita weapons and mods and do okayish, i dont expect to do well because i havnt invested points into weapons or better mods and equipment so i dont always expect to kill
As for is it a 'milita AV guy' it mostly is i can tell these days but ther is the odd person who i think does use advanced or so or prob the AUR ones if ther is any and they are turning up a bit more plus you can tell by the number of missiles which are fired and i count them as they turn the corner to hit my HAV as its behind the cover of a mountain
Plus i havnt lost a tank in days tbh except when the framerate dropped to 1 and it got blown up while my screen was frozen which i dont count for obv reasons because i couldnt do anything while frozen
There is also alot of EW items that are not in game as yet and im pretty sure there will be some kind of smoke screen you can drop to avoid the locked on SL missiles. I hope there will be some form of defender missiles you can fit to tanks that lock on and fire at incoming missile, they have them in eve so why not in dust. But IMO apart for the bugs that will hopefully be fixed there isn;t a whole lot wrong with Tank balance.
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.10.18 15:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
Defender missiles will need to be made 1st so we need to have all the diff ammo types in
Webifiers will be a HAV worst nightmare tbh, nades or even a gun tractor beam type to hold you in
HAV will need some sort of mod to break locks for swarms, i cant think what could be done to avoid the web nades apart from have a beast tank and hope infantry can help
Plus tracking disruptors against the HAV too
It seems maybe alot of EW could be against the HAV so that tank will have to be a tank and not a glass ship when all the changes and new mods have been added |
Jonquill Caronite
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
115
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 22:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote: Going for RL examples now?
Challenger 2 tank i think took a combined total of 14 RPGs and the occupants inside survived
I like the post in general, but I'm going to make a slight correction it was ACTUALLY 70 RPG's in Basra and it didn't completely destroy the tank either it just disabled it. People RADICALLY under-estimate reactive armor, never-mind future tech with shields et cetera... Look it up yourself. The things that actually destroy tanks are shape charges made from modified Russian ordinance, and we're not talking ordinary ordinance here, were talking 120mm and larger shells buried in the ground and rigged to blow a hole through a tank. Let's just say we have some crafty opposition.
The point is, I don't want to hear us playing the realism game here, if we were the starter Swarm would be a standard RPG and useless against almost all tanks, and the slightly above average RPG's or regular gear would be only good when used by considerable groups of opponents in Ambush situations. Be happy it's a game and we dont have to model after real life, the only shoulder mounted weapon systems that have actually been used to penetrate armor are the RPG-29, and it didn't disable the tank or kill any of the crew members, it just injured them and penetrated the armor of the tank. Therefore if we were being realistic that is an advanced model, and it wouldn't come close to killing an armored dropsuit inside a tank, or actually taking out the tank, so dream on.
Its questionable how a Javelin would perform against a tank, I imagine it would penetrate, so that would be your prototype model in real life. Ultimately what that means is if we use REAL LIFE EXAMPLES, you won't win the tank war until your in prototype gear.
Tanks are OP for a game maybe, but they've been heavily nerfed, to the point where they still fill their role but most players wont use them. That's adequate I think, and asking for anymore is honestly the same as just asking to have tanks removed from the game, which wont happen. |
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.10.19 12:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:1. Take away the extra 20% buff that the SL got, it was already put back to how it used to be
2. SL missiles should not be able to bend around corners when you are already behind cover, i see like 12 missiles heading for me so i back around the hill and half the missiles will then stick on the road and follow it around until they hit me. TBH its pure BS these missiles can turn quicker than an LAV, what is the point of having cover when they can avoid cover and go around it even if you was already behind cover in the 1st place
3. AV nades - you pull the pin it should blow up, not sit ther and wait 20mins until a tank/LAV passes it by. It makes AV mines useless since you are restricted to how many you can put down when compared to an AV nade minefield
4. Forge guns vs railguns - Forge gun is damn accurate and has a nice spalsh damage to boot and can take on infantry where as the tanks version has been made purly for anti tank roles so why does the forge gun get away with being infantry and AV? Shouldnt it be AV only tbh so that the heavy has to have support from MI so he doesnt get shot up
5. Dropships - Shouldnt be able to fly around in circles avoiding missiles, its BS when you see a dropship with 30missiles following it
6. Shield resistance/Armor resistance/damage control mods - They got whacked with the nerf bat and currently are not worth using tbh, if they got brought back to original levels then it would give more options for HAV drivers
7. Armor active resistance mods - we should have them tbh, give armor HAV users the same options as shield HAV drivers
8. Armor vs shield - Anyone can use the SL on any suit so its the most common used AV but the bad new for armor drivers is that it causes most DPS against armor, if point 7 was in it wouldnt be so bad tbh and make it a viable option
9. AV mines/nades - They cannot be destroyed, i can see them and i fire at them with my large missile turret and they shrug it off like i hit them with air, nades should go off after 5 seconds anyways like i covered but mines should be destroyed with any type of weapon when you fire at it tbh, they are not a hardened structure a mile under the ground its a damn mine
10. Turret on the front of the HAV - If an LAV hits the front of your HAV at full speed while your pretty much at full speed or so it will blow up but it will take the guy in the front turret also, he is in the tank tho he should not die since he is protected by my shields and armor
11. Swarm Launcher - Should not be able to lock on through the mountain so when you pop up you can instantly spam your missiles and then hide again and rinse and repeat
12. Vehicle controls - I would like to swap them about tbh, R2/L2 for forward and reverse, R1/L1 kept the same, Left analog kept for direction, R3 for turret movement, the booster would also move moved to R3 then when the wheel pops up you flick it in the direction of the booster you want to use and it activates - Either way i would think it be better if we could have alternate controls because frankly moving the tank about while firing the main turret screws up your direction
13. Reversing in a HAV - the camera should change so it shows you where you are reversing instead of basically guessing and praying ther isnt a bunch of rocks you will hit or some other crap which is littered about, i cant turn my turret around quick enough either and when i do turn my turret for some reason it also changes my direction
All i can think of atm tbh
14 to 70 hm quite close :D
Anyways if i had to pick the points i would want in now it would have to be points 1,2,3,5,7,9,10,11,13 i think it would balance the game a bit more
Vehicle controls need to have an alternate control scheme or even let us map the buttons to it because they make it harder as it is |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 09:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
14. Small missile turrets - They cannot seem to shoot straight, always firing at angles like its RBS from MAG except with missiles |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 10:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
Possibly point 15
15. AUR items and mods for vehicles - Dropsuits have them so why dont use vehicle users get some aswell, maybe and just maybe an extra AUR tank which has diff stats etc |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 13:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
15. Ejecting seats - Dropships pilots sometimes have a few in them doing nothing, i used to have a full dropship in the past and they never jumped out even if an objective was clear and they could take it, so eject them all and force them to do something (hacking objective) and it would be useful espc if your avoiding AV and cant land
16. Pilot/HAV radar - maybe it could be a skill, maybe even for MI aswell and the more its leveled up the more the radar shows the roads/instalations/buildings/enemy vehicles
17. Squad lock - HAV mainly, driver locks up the HAV so only squad members can enter the turret slots, can turn it off is running solo so blue dots can enter, this allows gunners to get out hack something and get back in knowing blue dots wont jump in because they see a tank |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 15:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
18. AUR items and mods for vehicles - Dropsuits have them so why dont use vehicle users get some aswell, maybe and just maybe an extra AUR tank which has diff stats etc
I dont see why we cannot have AUR items for vehicles at least for mods |
Alldin Kan
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
169
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Posted - 2012.10.24 15:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:18. AUR items and mods for vehicles - Dropsuits have them so why dont use vehicle users get some aswell, maybe and just maybe an extra AUR tank which has diff stats etc
I dont see why we cannot have AUR items for vehicles at least for mods
There used to be AUR turrets for vehicles but got removed on Codex. One of the large turrets used to go for 360 AUR. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 17:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:18. AUR items and mods for vehicles - Dropsuits have them so why dont use vehicle users get some aswell, maybe and just maybe an extra AUR tank which has diff stats etc
I dont see why we cannot have AUR items for vehicles at least for mods There used to be AUR turrets for vehicles but got removed on Codex. One of the large turrets used to go for 360 AUR.
Im suprised they didnt expand on it
I mean they have changed all the AUR prices so you get more bang for ya buck and doing vehicle mods maybe make ppl try vehicles and we would see more of them |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 19:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
5. Dropships - Shouldnt be able to fly around in circles avoiding missiles, its BS when you see a dropship with 30missiles following it
Fixed
Well done CCP dont stop ther now |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.10.25 12:11:00 -
[49] - Quote
19. Rig slots - Maybe MI could have small rigs for dropsuits and dropships have medium sized rigs and HAVs have large rigs, just like in EVE even the basic ships ie frigs have rig slots |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.10.26 13:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
3. AV nades - you pull the pin it should blow up, not sit ther and wait 20mins until a tank/LAV passes it by. It makes AV mines useless since you are restricted to how many you can put down when compared to an AV nade minefield - FIXED |
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Doomheim
83
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Posted - 2012.10.26 13:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:3. AV nades - you pull the pin it should blow up, not sit ther and wait 20mins until a tank/LAV passes it by. It makes AV mines useless since you are restricted to how many you can put down when compared to an AV nade minefield - FIXED What is happening to them now? They explode instantly? |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 13:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:3. AV nades - you pull the pin it should blow up, not sit ther and wait 20mins until a tank/LAV passes it by. It makes AV mines useless since you are restricted to how many you can put down when compared to an AV nade minefield - FIXED What is happening to them now? They explode instantly?
Basically you pull the pin and if it doesnt hit a vehicle it hits the floor stay for a few seconds then disappears |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 13:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
20. All large turrets turn at the same speed as the missile turrets, currently railgun is so slow its only good for sniping |
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