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mikenasty
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.10.14 23:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Honestly i feel sniping is way to easy an this is one of the reasons there are so many people sniping once you scope in an flick the right analog stick the barrel wander goes away completely. Also there no point to having -sway% on Sniper rifle operations when all i need to do is flick my R3 button an boom easy mode. the scope should always be moving unless you have a bipod of some sort.. maybe make a skill for one an put the bipod in the secondary slot? that way i can feel a little better knowing half my armor an shields were taking out by a guy with skill or some 1 who put some SP into there sniper load out.. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
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Posted - 2012.10.14 23:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah crouching to snipe encourages camping in mountains tbh. They need to be rewarded for moving around instead of camping. I know that's how sniper is supposed to be played but right now the amount of campers with sniper rifles in this build is really annoying. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.10.14 23:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:Yeah crouching to snipe encourages camping in mountains tbh. They need to be rewarded for moving around instead of camping. I know that's how sniper is supposed to be played but right now the amount of campers with sniper rifles in this build is really annoying. Well, as annoying as they can be, I'm sure neither of us wants to be getting quick-scoped at point blank range either, so the balancing for something like this gets to be quite tricky. |
mikenasty
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.10.14 23:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:Yeah crouching to snipe encourages camping in mountains tbh. They need to be rewarded for moving around instead of camping. I know that's how sniper is supposed to be played but right now the amount of campers with sniper rifles in this build is really annoying. Well, as annoying as they can be, I'm sure neither of us wants to be getting quick-scoped at point blank range either, so the balancing for something like this gets to be quite tricky.
I rather to be quick scoped tbh that would involve some skill |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.10.14 23:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
mikenasty wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:Yeah crouching to snipe encourages camping in mountains tbh. They need to be rewarded for moving around instead of camping. I know that's how sniper is supposed to be played but right now the amount of campers with sniper rifles in this build is really annoying. Well, as annoying as they can be, I'm sure neither of us wants to be getting quick-scoped at point blank range either, so the balancing for something like this gets to be quite tricky. I rather to be quick scoped tbh that would involve some skill Stop that train of thought right there. Quick-scoping is the single most ******** mechanic to have been introduced into modern shooters. It isn't skillful, its just stupid.
You also have to keep in mind that sniping is stupidly overpowered right now thanks to a graphical glitch in the LOD mechanic. Right now anyone outside of a certain range shows up as a solid black silhouette up against the terrain. Long-range sniping is easier than closer range, right now. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
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Posted - 2012.10.14 23:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:mikenasty wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:Yeah crouching to snipe encourages camping in mountains tbh. They need to be rewarded for moving around instead of camping. I know that's how sniper is supposed to be played but right now the amount of campers with sniper rifles in this build is really annoying. Well, as annoying as they can be, I'm sure neither of us wants to be getting quick-scoped at point blank range either, so the balancing for something like this gets to be quite tricky. I rather to be quick scoped tbh that would involve some skill Stop that train of thought right there. Quick-scoping is the single most ******** mechanic to have been introduced into modern shooters. It isn't skillful, its just stupid. As stupid as it, is its even stupider to say it doesn't take skill. It takes some serious reflexes. I can't do it tbh. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.10.14 23:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:mikenasty wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:Yeah crouching to snipe encourages camping in mountains tbh. They need to be rewarded for moving around instead of camping. I know that's how sniper is supposed to be played but right now the amount of campers with sniper rifles in this build is really annoying. Well, as annoying as they can be, I'm sure neither of us wants to be getting quick-scoped at point blank range either, so the balancing for something like this gets to be quite tricky. I rather to be quick scoped tbh that would involve some skill Stop that train of thought right there. Quick-scoping is the single most ******** mechanic to have been introduced into modern shooters. It isn't skillful, its just stupid. As stupid as it, is its even stupider to say it doesn't take skill. It takes some serious reflexes. I can't do it tbh. It takes being able to pull the trigger when the dot lights up, which is the same thing long-range sniping currently requires because of the graphical glitch I edited my post to mention. One of the best snipers in my Corp has given it up for this build because he feels ****** killing people who can't even see him. |
Belial777
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.10.15 00:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Of the games I have played where I felt the sniper rifle was being used within it's role were games that took 3 shots to take someone out. This way a sniper is forced to be selective in who they shoot and play an important support role as opposed to one many killing machines shooting everything that moves. I fully understand that 3 shot kills isn't realistic but they way snipers behave in the battlefield is far more realistic this way than normally is the case. I am sure I will get flamed by suggesting this (always do lol) but it never hurts to keep trying.
As far as quickscoping, this usually is only effective if there is a "snap to target" mechanic enabled. I play Dust with aim assist off (kudos to ccp for even giving me that option) so I am not sure if dust has snap to target. If so, simply disabling that mechanic for sniper rifles would allow the other suggestions to work without having to worry about quickscoping. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
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Posted - 2012.10.15 01:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
I have never been quickscoped in this build so I would say it does take quite a bit of skill considering no one can do it.
Graphical glitch or not. |
Ops Fox
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
197
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Posted - 2012.10.15 01:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sniping with the lower tier gear dosent kill them all the way this build and a smiper can earn 10/0 k/d and get 500 wp while a front line infantry can get 10/10 and get 1000+ WP double the Sp and Isk at the end of the match. So yeah people can run sniper buts its not very effictive at getting WP.
However rather than a nerf why not request more Anti-sniprr gear turnchange dust from nerf this and that to a arms race between the devs. Rather than calling for a nerf call for a counter and spec into it dont call something OP ask for another Op item and watch them tear each other up, much more fun that way than another nerf.
Or maybe you could try anti sniper builds but no more nerfs |
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Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 01:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ops Fox wrote:Sniping with the lower tier gear dosent kill them all the way this build and a smiper can earn 10/0 k/d and get 500 wp while a front line infantry can get 10/10 and get 1000+ WP double the Sp and Isk at the end of the match. So yeah people can run sniper buts its not very effictive at getting WP.
However rather than a nerf why not request more Anti-sniprr gear turnchange dust from nerf this and that to a arms race between the devs. Rather than calling for a nerf call for a counter and spec into it dont call something OP ask for another Op item and watch them tear each other up, much more fun that way than another nerf.
Or maybe you could try anti sniper builds but no more nerfs Once we're able to call in and drop installations snipers are going to get a lot more scarce. A well placed missile installation will balance them right out of their corner quite nicely. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 01:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:I have never been quickscoped in this build so I would say it does take quite a bit of skill considering no one can do it.
Graphical glitch or not. Oh, no, I was talking about extreme range with that glitch. If you can counter the scope sway in this game and pull off such a shot, more power to you. |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 01:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:I have never been quickscoped in this build so I would say it does take quite a bit of skill considering no one can do it.
Graphical glitch or not. Oh, no, I was talking about extreme range with that glitch. If you can counter the scope sway in this game and pull off such a shot, more power to you. Oh, those silhouette shots? They're ridiculous, especially if you don't take someone out in one shot. I've gotten so many kill assists while trying to do those |
Enderr Wigginn
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
57
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Posted - 2012.10.15 02:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
mikenasty wrote:Honestly i feel sniping is way to easy an this is one of the reasons there are so many people sniping once you scope in an flick the right analog stick the barrel wander goes away completely. Also there no point to having -sway% on Sniper rifle operations when all i need to do is flick my R3 button an boom easy mode. the scope should always be moving unless you have a bipod of some sort.. maybe make a skill for one an put the bipod in the secondary slot? that way i can feel a little better knowing half my armor an shields were taking out by a guy with skill or some 1 who put some SP into there sniper load out..
I do not understand what you mean by flicking the right analog and the sway goes away ? I snipe ever match and the only way to get rid of scope sway is to kneel and wait (only a second or two yes but flicking the analog does not help or clicking the r3 button). Now a couple things IMO that need to be fixed to help balance sniping is lower the tactical sniper rifle damage, right now it is only about 30 hp less then the slower model but shoots twice has fast. After firing kick returns perfectly back to your original spot, this should be randomized making it less easy to do two consecutive shoots. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 03:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
They reduced recoil between shots too. So if you don't kill em in 1 just hit the trigger right away again.
No joke, I've started sniping. I can't resist. Sit there and do nothing but kill people. It's about all the motivation I can muster for the game. |
mikenasty
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 05:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Enderr Wigginn wrote:mikenasty wrote:Honestly i feel sniping is way to easy an this is one of the reasons there are so many people sniping once you scope in an flick the right analog stick the barrel wander goes away completely. Also there no point to having -sway% on Sniper rifle operations when all i need to do is flick my R3 button an boom easy mode. the scope should always be moving unless you have a bipod of some sort.. maybe make a skill for one an put the bipod in the secondary slot? that way i can feel a little better knowing half my armor an shields were taking out by a guy with skill or some 1 who put some SP into there sniper load out.. I do not understand what you mean by flicking the right analog and the sway goes away ? I snipe ever match and the only way to get rid of scope sway is to kneel and wait (only a second or two yes but flicking the analog does not help or clicking the r3 button). Now a couple things IMO that need to be fixed to help balance sniping is lower the tactical sniper rifle damage, right now it is only about 30 hp less then the slower model but shoots twice has fast. After firing kick returns perfectly back to your original spot, this should be randomized making it less easy to do two consecutive shoots. Well if you move the right analog stick it will stop the sway... |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
132
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 08:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Don't think sniping is easy. You see top kills at the end of the game by ppl who either run vehicles or run with AR. Sniping is safer not easier - i.e. kills don't come as easy with sniping as they are with AR, you just die less. Also, SR is great for static targets only, a moving target is not so easy to hit and harder even to kill this build.
The reason why I say it's not easy is mostly because when I run even on open maps (the one with rock spires) most often than not I'd hear a SR bullet smack the ground next to me - the next thing that happens is I am gone, hiding behind a rock because I know there is a sniper looking for me and now their opportunity is gone. So anyway, for everyone SR shot that gets me there gotta be 5-6 that miss and land next to me. That's a pretty petty hit ratio; add that to the fact that you have to hit a moving target not once but twice before they are under cover. So no, SR are not easy.
I do agree that in Dust SR mechanics force ppl to hide in the mountains that make for a very dull gameplay for both snipers and their targets. Quick scoping - compatible rifles with permanent (but much reduced in amplitude) sway and better zoom (or a two level zoom) would make it easier to snipers to move closer to front lines and be better incorporated into the gameplay. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 13:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote: I do agree that in Dust SR mechanics force ppl to hide in the mountains that make for a very dull gameplay for both snipers and their targets. Quick scoping - compatible rifles with permanent (but much reduced in amplitude) sway and better zoom (or a two level zoom) would make it easier to snipers to move closer to front lines and be better incorporated into the gameplay.
Probably that wouldn't help much, most snipers would still sit on a mountain. Which isn't that terrible after all. |
Aidan Torrall
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 20:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Belial777 wrote:Of the games I have played where I felt the sniper rifle was being used within it's role were games that took 3 shots to take someone out. This way a sniper is forced to be selective in who they shoot and play an important support role as opposed to one many killing machines shooting everything that moves. I fully understand that 3 shot kills isn't realistic but they way snipers behave in the battlefield is far more realistic this way than normally is the case. I am sure I will get flamed by suggesting this (always do lol) but it never hurts to keep trying.
As far as quickscoping, this usually is only effective if there is a "snap to target" mechanic enabled. I play Dust with aim assist off (kudos to ccp for even giving me that option) so I am not sure if dust has snap to target. If so, simply disabling that mechanic for sniper rifles would allow the other suggestions to work without having to worry about quickscoping.
Have you tried sniping in this game? It does take 3 shots to kill infantry with sub proto gear (unless you're using the charge, which should be a higher level gun imho). I have the cheapest tactical sniper (level 1 or 2?), and it routinely takes me 3 shots. Sometimes 2, but a lot of times 3. |
Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
165
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 21:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
I play as a front line assault and very rarely have a problem with snipers. In general, with half decent situational awareness and constant movement the snipers have a hard job to get the head-shot lined up. I'll get hit and go into cover with a fairly good idea of where the shot more than likely came from, allow my shield to boast up and then move to the next cover. It's a rare occurrence when I snipe myself, but I've had great success those few times just using the starter sniper fitted dropsuit. Most of the kills were single shot to the head. Just kneel, aim for the head, wait for them to stop moving, and happy days. |
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Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 22:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
i'd like to see the yellow line implemented. it was being tossed around as the solution to boosters, but it would also help mitigate invincible mountain snipers.
basically there would be a second boundary on the map, the yellow line. your yellow line would coincide with the enemies red line. while you were behind the yellow line you would not earn any points for any action.
this was a great idea and i have no clue what happened to it. hopefully it's still in development and the current "no SP for repairs" system was just a quick fix to stop the huge amount of boosting going on. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 21:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
I saw somebody saying it takes three shots in this game but is this true???
Head shots count in Dust, am I correct in this because I'm sure I took out 2-3 ppl last night using one hit head shots.
I do think it is easy in Dust compared to other games, in certain games I never pick up Sniper rifles because I suck with them but in this game without having put any points into the skill I can do OK. I think how it is now unskilled should be how the game should play at possibly Lv 3 or 4 SR operation.
Once the LOD issue is worked out that will remove the ease of long distance kills but that is only part of the problem.
On the other hand I dont think AR gameplay is that easy - maybe its lag on my part or just using the PS3 control but I dont think the guns spray enough or aim as "free" as they should. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 21:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
The OP is 100% correct. Sniping is far too easy. It's not the best way to get a super high killcount, but it is safer, as mentioned earlier in the thread.
The complete lack of sway when crouched, combined with the fairly fast rate of fire, low recoil that is -meaningless- because it places your cursor exactly where it was meaning you can follow up shots quickly and easily without any real skill involved. Couple that with instant shot travel and super long range, it makes the sniper a fearsome weapon.
Quickscoping in the 'traditional' sense isn't possible (as easily as other games anyways, you can still do it with decent skill + reflexes) because there is no snap-to assist, and the ADS on snipers is slightly random when entering as opposed to always in the same spot on the center of your screen.
That said, I really do think snipers are in a good place damage wise (With the exception of the charge sniper variants, those are just plain awful and need to go, or maybe be repurposed so the charge bonus damage is an AV multiplier instead of infantry) the main problem with snipers is as above. Add more meaningful recoil and sway, and make it so the game doesn't aim your follow-up shot for you, and snipers are perfect. |
Belial777
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 22:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Have you tried sniping in this game? It does take 3 shots to kill infantry with sub proto gear (unless you're using the charge, which should be a higher level gun imho). I have the cheapest tactical sniper (level 1 or 2?), and it routinely takes me 3 shots. Sometimes 2, but a lot of times 3.
Yes I have sniped in this game. Not much, but enough to agree with the OP that it is too easy. I typically play as default "frontline" to simulate what a new player would experience and I have never survived more than 2 shots. And in the little time I spent sniping, I never had to hit someone more than twice. However, I do not know what kind of armor the people I shot were wearing, I was just spamming the "shoot here" arrows that my uber onboard wallhack was giving me. |
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