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*ISK Makes the World Go Round* - Economic harmony between DUST and EVE.

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Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.14 12:01:00 - [1] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ISK being the fundamental drive for Corporation Battles and anything besides Instant Matchmaking would detract from what this game has to offer. Here's how. Eventually all players will learn what they can afford to lose and will become familiar with that, eventually making profit and knowing when to quit while they're ahead. Dust corporations with Eve Online support need not worry about ISK at all as the disparity is huge - Capsuleers earning exponentially higher amounts in a short amount of time (but also risking more). Salvage will be (eventually) be able to be sold on the market and will further increase rewards, even if it's just selling what you dislike/cannot use. The intelligent debate in the above quoted thread, has inadvertently highlighted an issue which I believe is essential to the success of DUST within the EVE universe. "Dust corporations with Eve Online support need not worry about ISK at all as the disparity is huge" One of CCP's greatest achievements with EVE online is the player driven market. ISK is the major driving force of the game, it makes the world go round. And whilst ISK doesn't directly = End Game Win (whatever that means for you), ISK is a necessary requirement for it. Now, as it stands, there is a huge disparity between the cost of funding a ship, and the cost of funding 3 hours worth of drop suits. The great thing about the free market, is that this disparity will close itself. Once EVE online players start manufacturing DUST items, and the NPC sale orders currently in the DUST market are removed, the prices will eventually reach equilibrium. This equilibrium will be MUCH higher then the current market prices, I expect a fully kitted prototype suit to cost the order of tens of millions of ISK, whilst a full militia fit might cost 50k (to pick some numbers out of a hat! don't attack the numbers!). I presume CCP will leave militia items as NPC sales only. (CCP need to be very cautious when they finally go live... No-one wants to see an EVE corp splashing out billions and billions of isk on prototype gear while it is still freely available in unlimited quantities in the cheap NPC sale orders, only to make HUGE profits when those NPC orders are eventually removed and player-manufactured items replace them at much higher prices. CPP have some good economists in their ranks, so i trust they will do this right) Isk SHOULD matter to a dust corporation. But this relies on the markets in dust and eve reaching an economic harmony. Corp vs. Corp matches SHOULD be the big ISK generators (particularly if no SP are gained from them). Mercenaries SHOULD bring their most expensive fits, because that is when it really matters. Corp vs. Corp matches and the potential ISK gains should be the motivation for mercenaries to skill up in instant matches and PvE missions on drone invested planets (picturing starship troopers style, but drones instead of bugs!). But, for this to be the case the impact DUST can have in the EVE universe needs to be BIG. The potential economic benefits that an EVE alliance can reap from using DUST corporations needs to be substantial. A small percentage reduction/increase in reinforcement time for system sovereignty, seems a little on the lame side ( if I have understood it right). I can only assume CCP plan to start small, and ramp up this impact factor bit by bit. Provided the above is indeed the case, how do we know EVE corps will pay top dollar for a good DUST corp's services? Because if they don't their enemy will bid higher. EVE corps will want the best, most reliable mercenaries to do their business. Yes we may see EVE corps directly funding DUST corps, but we may also see the reverse. Why? Because the money that makes the DUST world go round is the same money that makes the EVE world go round, and a good, reliable, sought after DUST corporation SHOULD be a valuable income stream for any EVE parent corporation. These two games will get closer and closer together with each iteration CCP releases over the coming years, and in doing so the goals of a DUST mercenary, and those of an EVE capsuleer will become more and more intertwined. The harmonization of the two player-driven markets will almost be as big an achievement (and challenge) as the harmonization of the two games themselves, but if done right, the sky is the limit to potential of this franchise.
Jax GG Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 84	Posted - 2012.10.14 12:10:00 - [2] - Quote You make some very interesting points, HOWEVER (and there was always going to be a 'however' after I started my post like that), you position seems to assume that non-EvE players will not be able to join EvE corporations. In my view, that is almost the entire point of this game..... to form bonds between DUST and EvE, be it through major corporations (non-mercenary) or through independent corporations (Mercenaries). I beleive, and I could be way off the mark here, but it will be like real life........ the Corporations that run both EvE and DUST will not be as strong in DUST as those that are Independent. The specialists (expert DUSTers) will almost certainly want to stand alone from the Major corporations. The way I see it, the only time ISK will become and issue for anyone in this game is if they do not join a corporation of some kind, be it a EvE/Dust or a DUST only corp. Regards Jax
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.14 12:21:00 - [3] - Quote Jax GG wrote: You make some very interesting points, HOWEVER (and there was always going to be a 'however' after I started my post like that), you position seems to assume that non-EvE players will not be able to join EvE corporations. In my view, that is almost the entire point of this game..... to form bonds between DUST and EvE, be it through major corporations (non-mercenary) or through independent corporations (Mercenaries). I beleive, and I could be way off the mark here, but it will be like real life........ the Corporations that run both EvE and DUST will not be as strong in DUST as those that are Independent. The specialists (expert DUSTers) will almost certainly want to stand alone from the Major corporations. The way I see it, the only time ISK will become and issue for anyone in this game is if they do not join a corporation of some kind, be it a EvE/Dust or a DUST only corp. Regards Jax Good input, I think you may be right about standalone DUST corps compared to EVE corps with a DUST branch. I can picture Eve corporations using their own DUST members for the every day ground work, but when the going gets tough they have the option of hiring a reputable DUST mercenary corp, to help swing the balance back in their favour.
howard sanchez Conspiratus Immortalis 448	Posted - 2012.10.14 21:38:00 - [4] - Quote This is a great thread and the discussion needs to continue even though we don't have enough info about how the games will work together economically to make firm decisions yet. In my humble opinion, if ccp design the fiscal interaction between the games correctly then business between Eve and Dust can be as varied as currenttly exists across New Eden. For example, when you choose to join or form a corporation in eve there are a myriad of ways you can bring currency into your coffers. A lot of talk about how eve will influence dust has centered on eve corps funding dust corps. But it could work the other way as well. Profitable dust corps could end up funding eve startups or simply recruiting destroyer pilots for better coordinated orbital strkes. Of course, those destroyers will need frigate escorts...you see where this could go.
Whispercrow Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 102	Posted - 2012.10.14 22:04:00 - [5] - Quote The main problem will exist for 'pure' Dust players--if you're not part of a Corp that has a presence in EVE, you're going to be behind. A miner can sit in a T1 mining barge and scoop in a million creds worth of ore in 10 minutes with junky skills. With how FW is going, every month or so it's easy to make a billion just doing a couple L4's a day and cashing in. Hardcore mission runners have a steady stream of income, hardcore Plexers have an order of magnitude greater, and skilled traders have more options than that. If you're in a pure Dust corp using only Dust guys, you'll never be able to afford anything. If you're in an EVE-compatible corp, you will never want for cash. I wonder how CCP will deal with this.
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.10.14 22:12:00 - [6] - Quote good question, how do you transfer isk to dust and not totally **** off the ps3 players that dont have affiliations to eve. and not make it look like your forcing people to play eve to support dust. edit; did they fix the mouse sensitivity yet?
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.14 23:12:00 - [7] - Quote Has anyone ever done something as complicated as joining the economies of two entirely different games before? I do not envy whichever CCP people have the task of figuring out how they can bring Dust and EVE together economically without destroying Dust as a game by making items far too expensive for people without an EVE connection to afford. Most players do not play EVE and will not be involved in competitive, nullsec stuff for EVE corps. The game needs to remain enjoyable for those players as well. Whispercrow wrote: I wonder how CCP will deal with this. They're dealing with it pretty well right now by simply keeping the economies separate. I think that's a perfectly viable path forward. Make EVE players purchase contracts that are bought with EVE-scale funds and pay out in Dust-scale funds (that is, maybe a contract for 5 billion only awards 5 million or something) or use a third currency that acts as an exchange between Dust and EVE players. Such that, y'know, Dust players earn something via their efforts that is of value to EVE players and vice versa, and items can only be sold from one side to the other using this alternative form of payment. The bulk of the items on the market, meanwhile, could be NPC sold or produced by Dust player factories in districts on controlled planets, rather than by EVE players.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.10.15 04:28:00 - [8] - Quote Whispercrow wrote: The main problem will exist for 'pure' Dust players--if you're not part of a Corp that has a presence in EVE, you're going to be behind. A miner can sit in a T1 mining barge and scoop in a million creds worth of ore in 10 minutes with junky skills. With how FW is going, every month or so it's easy to make a billion just doing a couple L4's a day and cashing in. Hardcore mission runners have a steady stream of income, hardcore Plexers have an order of magnitude greater, and skilled traders have more options than that. If you're in a pure Dust corp using only Dust guys, you'll never be able to afford anything. If you're in an EVE-compatible corp, you will never want for cash. I wonder how CCP will deal with this. Cpl Quartz wrote: good question, how do you transfer isk to dust and not totally ** off the ps3 players that dont have affiliations to eve. and not make it look like your forcing people to play eve to support dust. edit; did they fix the mouse sensitivity yet? This is what i wonder as well, how will they balance it. Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Has anyone ever done something as complicated as joining the economies of two entirely different games before? I do not envy whichever CCP people have the task of figuring out how they can bring Dust and EVE together economically without destroying Dust as a game by making items far too expensive for people without an EVE connection to afford. Most players do not play EVE and will not be involved in competitive, nullsec stuff for EVE corps. The game needs to remain enjoyable for those players as well. Whispercrow wrote:** I wonder how CCP will deal with this. They're dealing with it pretty well right now by simply keeping the economies separate. I think that's a perfectly viable path forward. Make EVE players purchase contracts that are bought with EVE-scale funds and pay out in Dust-scale funds (that is, maybe a contract for 5 billion only awards 5 million or something) or use a third currency that acts as an exchange between Dust and EVE players. Such that, y'know, Dust players earn something via their efforts that is of value to EVE players and vice versa, and items can only be sold from one side to the other using this alternative form of payment. The bulk of the items on the market, meanwhile, could be NPC sold or produced by Dust player factories in districts on controlled planets, rather than by EVE players. agree. the majority of ppl wont be in nullsec fighting those big wars and the game must remain as enjoyable as a standalone FPS. As for Industry i wonder how CCP will go about it. Let DUST player produce their own stuff or also let EVE players produce them? thing is how will that affect market prices when u have someone who doesnt play DUST come up with the prices to sell gear at? cuz DUST gear will be a hell of alot cheaper than anything in EVE with the exception of warbarges
Whispercrow Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 102	Posted - 2012.10.15 04:35:00 - [9] - Quote If the currency with the same name exists in both games but can't be exchanged between the two, then it's not the same currency, so they should give it a new name. It's already established in EVE that planetary-based currency is worthless compared to the InterStellar Kredit. There's even an early-game noob mission where you have a 'stack of money' and it outright tells you this. So, rolling with that, CCP should come up with a new currency for Dust if they don't intend to link the economies. It makes no sense otherwise.
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.10.15 14:12:00 - [10] - Quote reading between the lines it's always been the plan that currency moves between the two whether they can think of a good way to do it sooner rather than later is another thing. it'll extend to eve players making small arms weapons, suits, planetary vehcles etc at one point i would imagine and much much more. i would imagine since the begining the plan was always to try and entice ps3 players into EvE and the other way around. sony gave money for development knowing some EvE players would purchase the console but most prefer kb/m so to try and drag pc players in they added it to dust (fix the damn mouse sensitivity btw). ccp knew some dust players might end up in EvE, to encourage that they may make some advantage to having an eve account, that would make sense but i'd think they would be mindfull of people on both sides that have no interest in the other genere - some EvE players downright hated the idea and still do. This is so groundbreaking two totally different games with a symbiotic relationship running on 1 shard when it works out. theres a free trial, every dust player should try it but be warned it's not like an fps and can be brutal yet rewarding. dont fly what you can't afford to lose, and dont jump into a big shiny expensive ship if you don't have the skills to protect it. remember your never totally safe even in high sec, scamming is totally ok as long as it's not for real life money, double check everything and try to stay away from trade window deals. after a while you can make enough ingame currency so your not spending your own on subscriprions like whispercrow pointed a few posts above. personally im hoping eve is something i can pay for to fund my dust, whether sony will allow this if they have any say is another thing. mercs are paid in isk -InterStellarKredits not planetary money. ps they always said they would wait and see how dust pans out before joining the two if at all.

Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.16 00:45:00 - [11] - Quote Whispercrow wrote: If the currency with the same name exists in both games but can't be exchanged between the two, then it's not the same currency, so they should give it a new name. It's already established in EVE that planetary-based currency is worthless compared to the InterStellar Kredit. There's even an early-game noob mission where you have a 'stack of money' and it outright tells you this. So, rolling with that, CCP should come up with a new currency for Dust if they don't intend to link the economies. It makes no sense otherwise. No, it does make sense. All markets around the world are not all freely accessible to all other people. There are all sorts of laws controlling the movement of money/merchandise. As for this fictional setting, capsuleers, the EVE characters, are on a whole 'nother level compared to other people in that setting. It seems perfectly reasonable that the markets foot-slogging Dust grunts would have access to might not include the ones that capsuleers would. If that's not believable enough, they could always throw together some kind of CONCORD legislation that accomplishes much of the same. At any rate, if it's decided that combining the economies can't work without hurting Dust substantially CCP really shouldn't feel any compulsion to do it regardless of that fact simply because the currencies are the same. The success of their game should not be endangered by something as trivial as "well the two currencies are the same therefore the two economies should be joined". Most Dust players, if they're even aware of the shared currency name, would not find themselves caring about that in any significant way. Cpl Quartz wrote: i would imagine since the begining the plan was always to try and entice ps3 players into EvE and the other way around. There are lot's of Dust players who are also EVE players, but the solution to the problem of Dust-only players being unable to afford anything because the prices for items are being set by people with spare billions lying around is not to get those Dust-only players to play EVE.
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.16 01:33:00 - [12] - Quote It just occurred to me: Why would the goods produced in EVE to be sold in DUST be so expensive? It doesn't make sense, really. Almost everything sold in EVE is some sort of starship-based item, which means it is infinitely more complex than the "low-tech" mercenary equipment we use here in DUST. I mean, I don't see why a weapon, dropsuit, module, tank, etc. would cost nearly as much as anything bought or sold or produced at this moment in the EVE universe. But that's just me. If you're worried about the prices being out of wack, remember that EVE is heavily capitalist: therefore, the market will by and large look after itself. If all the EVE Corporations producing weapons aren't selling those weapons to DUST players, then they would almost by default have to make the necessary adjustments in order to turn a profit, which would include dropping the price to make it affordable to DUST mercenaries. Otherwise, they would be cut out by the more DUST-savvy EVE players, who have first-hand experience of the game and know just the right price to entice the players to purchase their product, while also turning a profit. And if capitalism fails us, then CCP can always re-institute the NPC weapons at their current prices, which would force EVE players to either get out of the market or adjust their product to compete with the "baseline" weapons we are being offered right now. Either way, I really see the DUST-EVE joint-economy as just an extension of the current EVE system: capitalism has a way of adjusting itself, and the smartest businessmen will find a way to make their customers happy while making a tidy profit in the process. And CCP has already shown an inclination to step into the EVE market if things get out of hand, so we know that we DUST players won't be left out in the cold if things do get messy.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.16 02:43:00 - [13] - Quote Matobar wrote: It just occurred to me: Why would the goods produced in EVE to be sold in DUST be so expensive? It doesn't make sense, really. There are enough EVE players or EVE-connected players that the market would naturally adapt to that wallet size. What's that quote? "Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it." The necessary result of the kind of wealth disparity between Dust-only and EVE players would be that Dust-only players would find whatever stuff players are setting the price for essentially beyond their reach.
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:31:00 - [14] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: There are lot's of Dust players who are also EVE players, but the solution to the problem of Dust-only players being unable to afford anything because the prices for items are being set by people with spare billions lying around is not to get those Dust-only players to play EVE. i agree that would be forcing them to play EvE but remember that ccp needs to make money somewhere. AUR items will always be available to dust mercs as well as isk earned in dust, regarding resources for dust mercs you'll probably find they come down in price when they start getting manufactured (at least when the market settles) isk will be relatively easy to aquire for EvE players, easier than dust anyway. it's important that ccp get their monthly sub from somewhere maybe not -ú15 for dust as it is currently (only my opinion) but it needs to get some money back whether it's aur items, boosters or subs in EvE that basically transfer to isk in dust this enables continued development in dust............they have grand plans, someone needs to pay for them. you want to play dust for free its still free but you need to be carefull with the isk you earn. anyway the more dumb rich players from eve there are losing valuable equipment in dust the larger the match rewards will be for dusters.
Jax GG Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 84	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:38:00 - [15] - Quote Whispercrow wrote: The main problem will exist for 'pure' Dust players--if you're not part of a Corp that has a presence in EVE, you're going to be behind. A miner can sit in a T1 mining barge and scoop in a million creds worth of ore in 10 minutes with junky skills. With how FW is going, every month or so it's easy to make a billion just doing a couple L4's a day and cashing in. Hardcore mission runners have a steady stream of income, hardcore Plexers have an order of magnitude greater, and skilled traders have more options than that. If you're in a pure Dust corp using only Dust guys, you'll never be able to afford anything. If you're in an EVE-compatible corp, you will never want for cash. I wonder how CCP will deal with this. I think you might be wrong here. I think the non-EvE Dust corporations will possibly be some of the wealthiest around. LIke many things, if you join a large corporation they will give you enough assets to purely get the job done. If you join specialist corporations/companies, they will often excel in what equipment they allow you to use. My message might be a little mixed up, but EvE corps in Dust may have some of the largest disposable income available, however, it will come with a tight (read very tight) leash, whereas a self funding Dust Corporation will get the biggest and best rewards...... and, they'll spend it how they wish, answering only to themselves. You can see what is going to happen. The best in this game will NOT be dictated to by EvE corporations. Regards
Jax GG Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 84	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:40:00 - [16] - Quote Cpl Quartz wrote: good question, how do you transfer isk to dust and not totally **** off the ps3 players that dont have affiliations to eve. You don't, and this was the point I was making earlier. Those players you are worried about upsetting JOIN the corporations that get funding....... Hey Presto, everyone has funding. A the point of release there will be mega-bucks corporations running around all funded by EvE corps, however, and mark my words (just for the drama) within a month or so, the best performing corporations will NOT be EvE corps. EDIT I disagree with some of the other comments about keeping things separate. If you don't share economies, you don't share anything in my mind. There has to be impact on actions or in-actions. Losing a battle you were supposed to win, should have an economic impact on both the contractee and the contractor. On another point, though it's impossible to tell right now, I think prices will plummet once production from EvE side. ps..... Can someone please ***** fix this draft save message. It's making my screen bounce around more than some of hte ***** bunnies I try and shoot (and fail).
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:46:00 - [17] - Quote your kidding yourself. the best corps will still be eve funded, that's the whole concept of the way they designed this game to tie into EvE. its a two way thing eve players will need dust mercs and dust merc need EvE players, maybe not totally at release but that's what they are hoping for in the future. anyway who pays the rewards? who hold the purse strings? contracts are still going to be paid by EvE players. and if you mean EvE players being less skilled/tactical than some console jockeys, LoL. there are people in the EvE community that were playing competative games vastly more skilled and complex than dust is currently 10 + years ago. mind you they're all old now maybe they were old then who knows.
Jax GG Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 84	Posted - 2012.10.16 14:54:00 - [18] - Quote Cpl Quartz wrote: your kidding yourself. the best corps will still be eve funded, that's the whole concept of the way they designed this game to tie into EvE. its a two way thing eve players will need dust mercs and dust merc need EvE players, maybe not totally at release but that's what they are hoping for in the future. Of course..... funded by EvE players THROUGH contracts. Only time will tell, but no top Dust merc will be told 'what-for' by an EvE alliance.
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.16 15:09:00 - [19] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Matobar wrote: It just occurred to me: Why would the goods produced in EVE to be sold in DUST be so expensive? It doesn't make sense, really. There are enough EVE players or EVE-connected players that the market would naturally adapt to that wallet size. What's that quote? "Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it." The necessary result of the kind of wealth disparity between Dust-only and EVE players would be that Dust-only players would find whatever stuff players are setting the price for essentially beyond their reach. That really doesn't make any sense. As I said before, the corporations in EVE simply won't be able to sell things in DUST if they price their items according to how they're priced in EVE. Capitalism 101 is to please your consumer base, not ostracize them. First off, it doesn't make sense to price an assault rifle or drop suit the same way you would price a starship component, because they're completely different items. On top of that, you're assuming that the EVE players who play DUST will control the pricing. They won't. As I said before, the pricing will control itself, capitalist style, and I doubt that the average price of a product in DUST will be as far out of reach from the average DUST consumer as you're saying, because that just wouldn't make sense in a capitalist economy like the one we're headed towards. The price will be set according to what makes the most profit for the EVE corporation, and I highly doubt that profit will be found in making it so only a minority of DUST players can afford their goods. And as I said before, CCP can always re-institute the current NPC orders to accommodate the players if things get out of hand, which would force the EVE corporations to lower their prices just to compete with the new, cheaper NPC product.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.16 15:56:00 - [20] - Quote Jax GG wrote: A the point of release there will be mega-bucks corporations running around all funded by EvE corps, however, and mark my words (just for the drama) within a month or so, the best performing corporations will NOT be EvE corps. There's no way you could say that with any certainty. Having access to unlimited funds would be kind of an advantage. Being able to run as many fits of the most expensive prototype gear, having all the marauder tanks with their best stuff you can lose, always having friendly ships on standby for orbital strikes when needed... it's possible that not all of the best Dust corps will be ones supported by EVE corps, but it's certainly the case that the having EVE backing would be a major advantage and that such corps would naturally attract the better players, who themselves want a piece of the unlimited cash pie. Cpl Quartz wrote: i agree that would be forcing them to play EvE but remember that ccp needs to make money somewhere. If CCP wants to make money they should consider making AUR stuff people actually want to spend money on. The idea of forcing Dust players to become EVE players in order to stay competitive is pretty absurd. That isn't a viable business strategy. Jax GG wrote: My message might be a little mixed up, but EvE corps in Dust may have some of the largest disposable income available, however, it will come with a tight (read very tight) leash, whereas a self funding Dust Corporation will get the biggest and best rewards...... and, they'll spend it how they wish, answering only to themselves. How is it that you'd say the EVE-connected Dust corps would have the most money, but that the self-funding Dust corps would get the "best rewards"? EVE-connected Dust corps would be the wealthiest, never have to worry about ISK at all, would always (or almost always) have the fleet support they need to move their warbarge or get orbital strikes, and the only restrictions they'd have is that they'd be told where to fight. That's hardly an issue that would bother the typical member of such a corp, though. Matobar wrote: That really doesn't make any sense. As I said before, the corporations in EVE simply won't be able to sell things in DUST if they price their items according to how they're priced in EVE. Capitalism 101 is to please your consumer base, not ostracize them. First off, it doesn't make sense to price an assault rifle or drop suit the same way you would price a starship component, because they're completely different items. On top of that, you're assuming that the EVE players who play DUST will control the pricing. They won't. As I said before, the pricing will control itself, capitalist style, and I doubt that the average price of a product in DUST will be as far out of reach from the average DUST consumer as you're saying, because that just wouldn't make sense in a capitalist economy like the one we're headed towards. The price will be set according to what makes the most profit for the EVE corporation, and I highly doubt that profit will be found in making it so only a minority of DUST players can afford their goods. And as I said before, CCP can always re-institute the current NPC orders to accommodate the players if things get out of hand, which would force the EVE corporations to lower their prices just to compete with the new, cheaper NPC product. They will be able to sell things in Dust priced at EVE levels, because there are enough EVE players here and enough EVE-connected players that such pricing will still allow goods to move. If someone opened up the market in Dust to EVE players right now, I would buy out every item sold for 3k ISK or 10k ISK or whatever and give it a substantial mark-up. Dust players would be pissed, and they'd be able to afford 1/10th of these items they normally could or whatever, but EVE players would have no issue being able to buy those items for their Dust character. And I'd probably have people buying out my items and marking them up even further, until things settle at some price far above Dust player wallet sizes, because there are enough people with EVE money playing Dust that selling stuff at EVE levels would always be viable.

Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.10.16 16:07:00 - [21] - Quote eve economy isnt like wow auction house. the items most NPC sell are unlimited or virtually. and buy a load of stock at your peril, when the blueprints come out you might find yourself with gains or losses. this is one area i hate eve, devs chat with their freinds and "insider trading" ensues.
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.16 16:35:00 - [22] - Quote Let's not kid ourselves... Dust isk and Eve isk will indeed be one and the same currency. Before long Eve corps will be putting up Dust contracts for real isk, and I wouldn't be surprised if not long after that (if not in the same release) capsuleers will be able to send isk direct to Dust mercenaries. All of those who have expressed an uneasiness about this are quite right to do so. Because of the current disparity in pricing, Eve funded Mercs will have unlimited access to the most expensive kit all the time. Not only does this make the market worthless, but it ruins the game for everyone. Loosing expensive stuff needs to hurt! So how do we avoid that? The bottom line is this: The ISK cost of playing for a few hours in Dust needs to be similar to that in EVE. ...and therefore: Potential hourly earnings in Dust also need to be similar to that in EVE. That means that (a) Merc kit will need to get more expensive, (b) the potential to make ISK will need to increase. With such an undervalued market, DUST corps will have no reason to want the lucrative contracts. I don't care if you offer me a 10 billion isk contract, when the 1 billion I currently have in my wallet is enough to fund all my corp members tanks and dropships in every game they play for the next 6 months! ISK needs to be a driving force in Dust, just as it is in EVE. If the Markets merged right now, with no change to the NPC sale order prices, Dust would be ruined. Though, as I said in the OP, I am sure the Economists at CCP are aware of this - I certainly hope so! And yes, it might look a bit silly when a fully fitted prototype dropsuit is worth almost as much as a frigate, but there are far sillier things in the universe!
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.10.16 16:49:00 - [23] - Quote the isk in eve is transferable to real money if you equate it to gametime. gametime cards=plex=isk. that 10 billion isk contract starting to look better? actually real money isnt a good description as it never really leaves ccp once it's spent there.
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.16 16:54:00 - [24] - Quote Cpl Quartz wrote: the isk in eve is transferable to real money if you equate it to gametime. gametime cards=plex=isk. that 10 billion isk contract starting to look better? actually real money isnt a good description as it never really leaves ccp once it's spent there. I know I can save real money with ISK (if I play Eve), but I can't buy real money. Besides, Dust is free! So no, I still don't care about that contract.
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.10.16 16:57:00 - [25] - Quote nothing in life is free. ever. free is just a term they use to lure you in
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.16 17:02:00 - [26] - Quote Cpl Quartz wrote: nothing in life is free. ever. free is just a term they use to lure you in Lol, deserves a Like
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.21 11:30:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Transferring ISK from an EVE account to a DUST account is unintended behaviour. I would recommend the corporations who have done this to leave it in their corporation wallets while we investigate. So its happened. I hope CCP learn from this, and don't make the same mistake twice when Dust eventually goes live with tranquility! Maximus Creed wrote: Let's not kid ourselves... Dust isk and Eve isk will indeed be one and the same currency. Before long Eve corps will be putting up Dust contracts for real isk, and I wouldn't be surprised if not long after that (if not in the same release) capsuleers will be able to send isk direct to Dust mercenaries. All of those who have expressed an uneasiness about this are quite right to do so. Because of the current disparity in pricing, Eve funded Mercs will have unlimited access to the most expensive kit all the time. Not only does this make the market worthless, but it ruins the game for everyone. Loosing expensive stuff needs to hurt! So how do we avoid that? The bottom line is this: The ISK cost of playing for a few hours in Dust needs to be similar to that in EVE. ...and therefore: Potential hourly earnings in Dust also need to be similar to that in EVE. That means that (a) Merc kit will need to get more expensive, (b) the potential to make ISK will need to increase. With such an undervalued market, DUST corps will have no reason to want the lucrative contracts. I don't care if you offer me a 10 billion isk contract, when the 1 billion I currently have in my wallet is enough to fund all my corp members tanks and dropships in every game they play for the next 6 months! ISK needs to be a driving force in Dust, just as it is in EVE. If the Markets merged right now, with no change to the NPC sale order prices, Dust would be ruined. Though, as I said in the OP, I am sure the Economists at CCP are aware of this - I certainly hope so! And yes, it might look a bit silly when a fully fitted prototype dropsuit is worth almost as much as a frigate, but there are far sillier things in the universe!


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