DUST Search - *ISK Makes the World Go Round* - Economic harmony between DUST and EVE.

Maximus Creed wrote:

Let's not kid ourselves...

Dust isk and Eve isk will indeed be one and the same currency. Before long Eve corps will be putting up Dust contracts for real isk, and I wouldn't be surprised if not long after that (if not in the same release) capsuleers will be able to send isk direct to Dust mercenaries.

All of those who have expressed an uneasiness about this are quite right to do so. Because of the current disparity in pricing, Eve funded Mercs will have unlimited access to the most expensive kit all the time. Not only does this make the market worthless, but it ruins the game for everyone. Loosing expensive stuff needs to hurt!

So how do we avoid that? The bottom line is this:

The ISK cost of playing for a few hours in Dust needs to be similar to that in EVE.

...and therefore:

Potential hourly earnings in Dust also need to be similar to that in EVE.

That means that (a) Merc kit will need to get more expensive, (b) the potential to make ISK will need to increase.

With such an undervalued market, DUST corps will have no reason to want the lucrative contracts. I don't care if you offer me a 10 billion isk contract, when the 1 billion I currently have in my wallet is enough to fund all my corp members tanks and dropships in every game they play for the next 6 months! ISK needs to be a driving force in Dust, just as it is in EVE.

If the Markets merged right now, with no change to the NPC sale order prices, Dust would be ruined. Though, as I said in the OP, I am sure the Economists at CCP are aware of this - I certainly hope so!

And yes, it might look a bit silly when a fully fitted prototype dropsuit is worth almost as much as a frigate, but there are far sillier things in the universe!


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Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.14 12:01:00 - [1] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ISK being the fundamental drive for Corporation Battles and anything besides Instant Matchmaking would detract from what this game has to offer. Here's how. Eventually all players will learn what they can afford to lose and will become familiar with that, eventually making profit and knowing when to quit while they're ahead. Dust corporations with Eve Online support need not worry about ISK at all as the disparity is huge - Capsuleers earning exponentially higher amounts in a short amount of time (but also risking more). Salvage will be (eventually) be able to be sold on the market and will further increase rewards, even if it's just selling what you dislike/cannot use. The intelligent debate in the above quoted thread, has inadvertently highlighted an issue which I believe is essential to the success of DUST within the EVE universe. "Dust corporations with Eve Online support need not worry about ISK at all as the disparity is huge" One of CCP's greatest achievements with EVE online is the player driven market. ISK is the major driving force of the game, it makes the world go round. And whilst ISK doesn't directly = End Game Win (whatever that means for you), ISK is a necessary requirement for it. Now, as it stands, there is a huge disparity between the cost of funding a ship, and the cost of funding 3 hours worth of drop suits. The great thing about the free market, is that this disparity will close itself. Once EVE online players start manufacturing DUST items, and the NPC sale orders currently in the DUST market are removed, the prices will eventually reach equilibrium. This equilibrium will be MUCH higher then the current market prices, I expect a fully kitted prototype suit to cost the order of tens of millions of ISK, whilst a full militia fit might cost 50k (to pick some numbers out of a hat! don't attack the numbers!). I presume CCP will leave militia items as NPC sales only. (CCP need to be very cautious when they finally go live... No-one wants to see an EVE corp splashing out billions and billions of isk on prototype gear while it is still freely available in unlimited quantities in the cheap NPC sale orders, only to make HUGE profits when those NPC orders are eventually removed and player-manufactured items replace them at much higher prices. CPP have some good economists in their ranks, so i trust they will do this right) Isk SHOULD matter to a dust corporation. But this relies on the markets in dust and eve reaching an economic harmony. Corp vs. Corp matches SHOULD be the big ISK generators (particularly if no SP are gained from them). Mercenaries SHOULD bring their most expensive fits, because that is when it really matters. Corp vs. Corp matches and the potential ISK gains should be the motivation for mercenaries to skill up in instant matches and PvE missions on drone invested planets (picturing starship troopers style, but drones instead of bugs!). But, for this to be the case the impact DUST can have in the EVE universe needs to be BIG. The potential economic benefits that an EVE alliance can reap from using DUST corporations needs to be substantial. A small percentage reduction/increase in reinforcement time for system sovereignty, seems a little on the lame side ( if I have understood it right). I can only assume CCP plan to start small, and ramp up this impact factor bit by bit. Provided the above is indeed the case, how do we know EVE corps will pay top dollar for a good DUST corp's services? Because if they don't their enemy will bid higher. EVE corps will want the best, most reliable mercenaries to do their business. Yes we may see EVE corps directly funding DUST corps, but we may also see the reverse. Why? Because the money that makes the DUST world go round is the same money that makes the EVE world go round, and a good, reliable, sought after DUST corporation SHOULD be a valuable income stream for any EVE parent corporation. These two games will get closer and closer together with each iteration CCP releases over the coming years, and in doing so the goals of a DUST mercenary, and those of an EVE capsuleer will become more and more intertwined. The harmonization of the two player-driven markets will almost be as big an achievement (and challenge) as the harmonization of the two games themselves, but if done right, the sky is the limit to potential of this franchise.
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.14 12:21:00 - [2] - Quote Jax GG wrote: You make some very interesting points, HOWEVER (and there was always going to be a 'however' after I started my post like that), you position seems to assume that non-EvE players will not be able to join EvE corporations. In my view, that is almost the entire point of this game..... to form bonds between DUST and EvE, be it through major corporations (non-mercenary) or through independent corporations (Mercenaries). I beleive, and I could be way off the mark here, but it will be like real life........ the Corporations that run both EvE and DUST will not be as strong in DUST as those that are Independent. The specialists (expert DUSTers) will almost certainly want to stand alone from the Major corporations. The way I see it, the only time ISK will become and issue for anyone in this game is if they do not join a corporation of some kind, be it a EvE/Dust or a DUST only corp. Regards Jax Good input, I think you may be right about standalone DUST corps compared to EVE corps with a DUST branch. I can picture Eve corporations using their own DUST members for the every day ground work, but when the going gets tough they have the option of hiring a reputable DUST mercenary corp, to help swing the balance back in their favour.
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.16 16:35:00 - [3] - Quote Let's not kid ourselves... Dust isk and Eve isk will indeed be one and the same currency. Before long Eve corps will be putting up Dust contracts for real isk, and I wouldn't be surprised if not long after that (if not in the same release) capsuleers will be able to send isk direct to Dust mercenaries. All of those who have expressed an uneasiness about this are quite right to do so. Because of the current disparity in pricing, Eve funded Mercs will have unlimited access to the most expensive kit all the time. Not only does this make the market worthless, but it ruins the game for everyone. Loosing expensive stuff needs to hurt! So how do we avoid that? The bottom line is this: The ISK cost of playing for a few hours in Dust needs to be similar to that in EVE. ...and therefore: Potential hourly earnings in Dust also need to be similar to that in EVE. That means that (a) Merc kit will need to get more expensive, (b) the potential to make ISK will need to increase. With such an undervalued market, DUST corps will have no reason to want the lucrative contracts. I don't care if you offer me a 10 billion isk contract, when the 1 billion I currently have in my wallet is enough to fund all my corp members tanks and dropships in every game they play for the next 6 months! ISK needs to be a driving force in Dust, just as it is in EVE. If the Markets merged right now, with no change to the NPC sale order prices, Dust would be ruined. Though, as I said in the OP, I am sure the Economists at CCP are aware of this - I certainly hope so! And yes, it might look a bit silly when a fully fitted prototype dropsuit is worth almost as much as a frigate, but there are far sillier things in the universe!
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.16 16:54:00 - [4] - Quote Cpl Quartz wrote: the isk in eve is transferable to real money if you equate it to gametime. gametime cards=plex=isk. that 10 billion isk contract starting to look better? actually real money isnt a good description as it never really leaves ccp once it's spent there. I know I can save real money with ISK (if I play Eve), but I can't buy real money. Besides, Dust is free! So no, I still don't care about that contract.
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.16 17:02:00 - [5] - Quote Cpl Quartz wrote: nothing in life is free. ever. free is just a term they use to lure you in Lol, deserves a Like
Maximus Creed ZionTCD Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2012.10.21 11:30:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Transferring ISK from an EVE account to a DUST account is unintended behaviour. I would recommend the corporations who have done this to leave it in their corporation wallets while we investigate. So its happened. I hope CCP learn from this, and don't make the same mistake twice when Dust eventually goes live with tranquility! Maximus Creed wrote: Let's not kid ourselves... Dust isk and Eve isk will indeed be one and the same currency. Before long Eve corps will be putting up Dust contracts for real isk, and I wouldn't be surprised if not long after that (if not in the same release) capsuleers will be able to send isk direct to Dust mercenaries. All of those who have expressed an uneasiness about this are quite right to do so. Because of the current disparity in pricing, Eve funded Mercs will have unlimited access to the most expensive kit all the time. Not only does this make the market worthless, but it ruins the game for everyone. Loosing expensive stuff needs to hurt! So how do we avoid that? The bottom line is this: The ISK cost of playing for a few hours in Dust needs to be similar to that in EVE. ...and therefore: Potential hourly earnings in Dust also need to be similar to that in EVE. That means that (a) Merc kit will need to get more expensive, (b) the potential to make ISK will need to increase. With such an undervalued market, DUST corps will have no reason to want the lucrative contracts. I don't care if you offer me a 10 billion isk contract, when the 1 billion I currently have in my wallet is enough to fund all my corp members tanks and dropships in every game they play for the next 6 months! ISK needs to be a driving force in Dust, just as it is in EVE. If the Markets merged right now, with no change to the NPC sale order prices, Dust would be ruined. Though, as I said in the OP, I am sure the Economists at CCP are aware of this - I certainly hope so! And yes, it might look a bit silly when a fully fitted prototype dropsuit is worth almost as much as a frigate, but there are far sillier things in the universe!