DUST Search - Snipers & Skill Tree

Altina McAlterson wrote:

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that this kind of stuff is what's going to destroy this game. Increase the skills reaquired to snipe, add sway to crouching, increase the recoil after a shot, etc... No, that's a bad idea. What CCP needs to do is fix this crap with snipers being behind cover where you can't shoot them but they can shoot you. That's it, nothing more. They fix that and then we see where we are. What in the holy hell is going on around here? All I see is "nerf this, nerf that" and almost no threads about "Hey, this needs a boost". Holy crap, the only threads about something needing a boost is because everybody cried like a little girl and got it nerfed and now whatever it is sucks.

Here's what happens when I play DUST. I log in, get in to a battle and then I try to kill you. I try to kill you over and over over. I will try to kill you until you throw the controller through the TV and call the cat a bitchass *****. Just because I succeed does not mean something needs a nerf. Damnit...there has really been some OP stuff but has anybody stopped to think and realize that CCP has nerfed almost every single thing in this game. Eventually we're going to be running around trying to kill each other with nothing but harsh language.

Right now there is one single problem with snipers, and that is the glitchy cover BS. I can't even snipe them with a perfect shot lined up, or they're actually behind the cover and I have no shot at all and yet they kill me. Get that fixed and then come back and talk to me about snipers needing a nerf. We're only playing on what, 3 maps right now? Don't you think there's going to be some that are great for sniping and some that are total crap? We're gonna get this game nerfed in to Cow Clicker if we don't watch out.

You dying is not a game issue, it's just you. Because I'm trying to kill you. TO KILL YOU. And yet you get mad when you die? Guess what, I die constantly. I don't have some insane KDR. Some matches I go 3/7. This is a game, which means someone has to win by someone else losing. There are some valid points in this thread, but I'm getting tired ot all this nerf crap and this thread gets my rant, deal with it.

TL:DR - Read it or STFU.

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Sgt Kirk ZionTCD Legacy Rising 348	Posted - 2012.10.14 16:49:00 - [31] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: I'm just gonna go ahead and say that this kind of stuff is what's going to destroy this game. Increase the skills reaquired to snipe, add sway to crouching, increase the recoil after a shot, etc... No, that's a bad idea. What CCP needs to do is fix this crap with snipers being behind cover where you can't shoot them but they can shoot you. That's it, nothing more. They fix that and then we see where we are. What in the holy hell is going on around here? All I see is "nerf this, nerf that" and almost no threads about "Hey, this needs a boost". Holy crap, the only threads about something needing a boost is because everybody cried like a little girl and got it nerfed and now whatever it is sucks. Here's what happens when I play DUST. I log in, get in to a battle and then I try to kill you. I try to kill you over and over over. I will try to kill you until you throw the controller through the TV and call the cat a bitchass *****. Just because I succeed does not mean something needs a nerf. Damnit...there has really been some OP stuff but has anybody stopped to think and realize that CCP has nerfed almost every single thing in this game. Eventually we're going to be running around trying to kill each other with nothing but harsh language. Right now there is one single problem with snipers, and that is the glitchy cover BS. I can't even snipe them with a perfect shot lined up, or they're actually behind the cover and I have no shot at all and yet they kill me. Get that fixed and then come back and talk to me about snipers needing a nerf. We're only playing on what, 3 maps right now? Don't you think there's going to be some that are great for sniping and some that are total crap? We're gonna get this game nerfed in to Cow Clicker if we don't watch out. You dying is not a game issue, it's just you. Because I'm trying to kill you. TO KILL YOU. And yet you get mad when you die? Guess what, I die constantly. I don't have some insane KDR. Some matches I go 3/7. This is a game, which means someone has to win by someone else losing. There are some valid points in this thread, but I'm getting tired ot all this nerf crap and this thread gets my rant, deal with it. TL:DR - Read it or STFU. ^ Person who likes the ability for any joe to snipe with no real capability. >recoil positions gun back to target >dramatically increased recover time >greentexting on DUST forums Even the true snipers I know hate the ease of using the sniper rifle in this build. The sniper rifle shouldn't be a weapon that you can fall back to because a person sucks at combat and wants to raise their K/D.
Conraire Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 52	Posted - 2012.10.14 17:20:00 - [32] - Quote At the OP Grow some patience, and learn to use cover. Pay attention to your surroundings. I can personally spot snipers even when running front line from half way across the map or more easily. Pay attention to where you think would be a good sniper spot, if you see movement there take cover from it. Pretty much every map has several places to avoid being seen by 99% of the snipers in the game. These skills are important in any FPS that has snipers. I actually found it slightly easier to snipe in the previous build due to higher damage. What the OP doesn't realize is how many times people miss before actually hitting him.. I know personally, there are times I may hit 1 or 2 shots out of a clip. There are times if I'm way off that I won't hit a single shot. But, when I'm on I'm on. Thats just my play style though, I move around and change cover after every few shots. I do agree though, even though we're shooting railguns, there does need to be some kickback between shots. And need to have some sway while crouching, just not quite as much as it is while free standing. And there is sway after a shot, at least there is for me.
Dirty Zan 2	Posted - 2012.10.14 17:23:00 - [33] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: I'm just gonna go ahead and say that this kind of stuff is what's going to destroy this game. Increase the skills reaquired to snipe, add sway to crouching, increase the recoil after a shot, etc... No, that's a bad idea. What CCP needs to do is fix this crap with snipers being behind cover where you can't shoot them but they can shoot you. That's it, nothing more. They fix that and then we see where we are. What in the holy hell is going on around here? All I see is "nerf this, nerf that" and almost no threads about "Hey, this needs a boost". Holy crap, the only threads about something needing a boost is because everybody cried like a little girl and got it nerfed and now whatever it is sucks. Here's what happens when I play DUST. I log in, get in to a battle and then I try to kill you. I try to kill you over and over over. I will try to kill you until you throw the controller through the TV and call the cat a bitchass *****. Just because I succeed does not mean something needs a nerf. Damnit...there has really been some OP stuff but has anybody stopped to think and realize that CCP has nerfed almost every single thing in this game. Eventually we're going to be running around trying to kill each other with nothing but harsh language. Right now there is one single problem with snipers, and that is the glitchy cover BS. I can't even snipe them with a perfect shot lined up, or they're actually behind the cover and I have no shot at all and yet they kill me. Get that fixed and then come back and talk to me about snipers needing a nerf. We're only playing on what, 3 maps right now? Don't you think there's going to be some that are great for sniping and some that are total crap? We're gonna get this game nerfed in to Cow Clicker if we don't watch out. You dying is not a game issue, it's just you. Because I'm trying to kill you. TO KILL YOU. And yet you get mad when you die? Guess what, I die constantly. I don't have some insane KDR. Some matches I go 3/7. This is a game, which means someone has to win by someone else losing. There are some valid points in this thread, but I'm getting tired ot all this nerf crap and this thread gets my rant, deal with it. TL:DR - Read it or STFU. Do you honestly believe that fixing a bug and making sniping easier will fix the problem. Yes fixing the bugged cover needs to be done, but returning the kick, adding bullet drop, and returning the sway in between shots also need to happen. Snipers right now just feels too much like an easy point and click weapon. They should require individual player skill to use more effectively such as any other specialized weapon. Yes, agree with you that things are getting nerfed to hard, I still believe that sniper proficiency should increase to 5% more damage with each level, but your shots shouldn't line themselves back up after every shot.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.14 19:15:00 - [34] - Quote Dirty Zan wrote: Do you honestly believe that fixing a bug and making sniping easier will fix the problem. If I honestly believed that I would have said it. But I didn't. I said we need just take a step back and put the nerf bats down and let CCP fix the bugs/glitches/exploits. If sniping is still a problem and is way too easy then we can talk about nerfs. I've been saying since I got on these boards that nerfing something should be the last resort. Work out the glitches and the exploits, let people get bored with it (which they will) and then see where we stand. Or we can just change everything again and hope it doesn't make it worse.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.11 04:29:00 - [35] - Quote Oh for the love of god I **** snipers non stop, its called a scout suit. Assualts are the jack of all trades they are not suppost to be god at every thing. The only thing that is really gay is red line snipers but the red line mechanic needs to be fixed anyways. That said go spend the 40k sp to get a charge sniper and a swarm luancher that way you dont have to rely on one gun to be the best at every thing. Hell if you dont have a standard sniper and av fit you are a waste of a player slot on a team anyways.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.11 04:32:00 - [36] - Quote On the subject of sway, crouched sway is unnessary crouching is enough of a penalty in it own right. But shot sway would reduct tac sniper abuse.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.12.11 05:00:00 - [37] - Quote All they need to do is add in bullet drop, bullet travel time, reticule sway (with potentially a "hold breath" feature), and tracers for the bullets so you can see where the snipers are. Making stuff like range etc tied to skills merely delays things. It isn't a sensible solution. Actually changing the fundamentals of sniping to require skill is a sensible solution. fred orpaul wrote: On the subject of sway, crouched sway is unnessary crouching is enough of a penalty in it own right. But shot sway would reduct tac sniper abuse. Crouching is irrelevant to the majority of snipers. It isn't a penalty. Most people would crouch anyway if only to make themselves a smaller target to any return fire. Crouched sway is absolutely necessary.
Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 319	Posted - 2012.12.11 08:06:00 - [38] - Quote PROBLEM: Sniper giving you trouble. SOLLUTION: Switch to a sniper fit and kill him. You know where to shoot, your victim is only shooting the easiest targets he can find. Should be childsplay.
Legionay Doomheim 39	Posted - 2012.12.11 08:23:00 - [39] - Quote I'm a sniper and I've got to say sniping is NOT that easy if your trying to pick off people that know what there doing. Assault rifles in my opinion have way to much range. How to avoid a sniper: 1. Stick to cover 2. Never run directly towards the sniper 3. If you see a sniper, try your best to flank him 4. You only get 1 hit killed if a headshot is involved, so don't do number 2. 5. Use an LAV to get to the sniper if he's up a hill. 6. Never stay still, your just asking for a headshot.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.12.11 16:01:00 - [40] - Quote Legionay wrote: I'm a sniper and I've got to say sniping is NOT that easy if your trying to pick off people that know what there doing. Assault rifles in my opinion have way to much range. How to avoid a sniper: 1. Stick to cover 2. Never run directly towards the sniper 3. If you see a sniper, try your best to flank him 4. You only get 1 hit killed if a headshot is involved, so don't do number 2. 5. Use an LAV to get to the sniper if he's up a hill. 6. Never stay still, your just asking for a headshot. 1. Lot of places have no cover. You can't stick in cover while moving from objective to objective, except for that one map where it's a big industrial facility. 2. You will be lucky if you even know where the sniper is shooting from. 3. If you see the sniper, he's liable to be a tiny dot off in the distance. His team is also probably between you and him. If you can take out the enemy team such that flanking the sniper becomes an option, you've already won. 4. Scouts often die in one hit to the body as well. 5. Good luck. 6. Moving targets aren't much harder to hit. The problem is not the people snipers are shooting. The problem is the sniper rifles themselves. Sniping is easy. It's easy and it's safe unlike any other way of playing Dust. If you disagree, I'd recommend you see what it's like being regular AR infantry.

fahrenheitM Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2012.12.11 16:35:00 - [41] - Quote If you want to return sway to snipers that are crouched and stationary, then you need to put it into the sites of AR users, especially ones that are moving. I can be MOVING with my AR and have pinpoint accuracy while scoped... Same as snipers that have to be crouched.
Finn Kempers BetaMax. 222	Posted - 2012.12.11 18:20:00 - [42] - Quote I assuming then none of you scrubs have tried the experimental sniper that hangs around the militia gear stock, give that s shot. I say thats the future of all guns in dust. By the way consider here that snipers are technically in Dust minirailguns, so bullets will be basically instant. Also you cannot be OHK'ed unless they use the cumbersome Charge sniper on a low suit or they Headshot you. And another point is that I say we return to how sway used to be, which was you got sway again after each shot. Tbh I still think though its absolute BS the stuff at "OHMAGAWDTHESNIPERISOUTTARANGENEEDSNERF!!!", It's a sniper genius, they are meant to be out of your range to pick you off. What f***ing use are snipers if they cant pick people off, may as well use the Tac AR.
Legionay Doomheim 39	Posted - 2012.12.11 18:55:00 - [43] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Legionay wrote: I'm a sniper and I've got to say sniping is NOT that easy if your trying to pick off people that know what there doing. Assault rifles in my opinion have way to much range. How to avoid a sniper: 1. Stick to cover 2. Never run directly towards the sniper 3. If you see a sniper, try your best to flank him 4. You only get 1 hit killed if a headshot is involved, so don't do number 2. 5. Use an LAV to get to the sniper if he's up a hill. 6. Never stay still, your just asking for a headshot. 1. Lot of places have no cover. You can't stick in cover while moving from objective to objective, except for that one map where it's a big industrial facility. 2. You will be lucky if you even know where the sniper is shooting from. 3. If you see the sniper, he's liable to be a tiny dot off in the distance. His team is also probably between you and him. If you can take out the enemy team such that flanking the sniper becomes an option, you've already won. 4. Scouts often die in one hit to the body as well. 5. Good luck. 6. Moving targets aren't much harder to hit. The problem is not the people snipers are shooting. The problem is the sniper rifles themselves. Sniping is easy. It's easy and it's safe unlike any other way of playing Dust. If you disagree, I'd recommend you see what it's like being regular AR infantry. 1. There is a lot of places you can get behind to hide from a sniper, seriously the amount of times I've had a player move out of sight is a HUGE amount. 2. Then your screwed, just like in assault if you spawn directly in front of an assault rifle wielding drug addict. 3. LAV (Refer to point 5) 4. You shouldn't be in such an open area then with no cover if you have low health like a scout. 5. It's pretty easy to get from Point A to Point B in a LAV uncontested most of the time. 6. There still a bit harder, add jumping and start zigzagging and it'll be even harder.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.12.11 21:21:00 - [44] - Quote At the speeds the railgun based sniper rifles fire projectiles, bullet drop would be less then the dispersion of a real sniper rifle. The travel time could be added so shots on moving targets need lead, max range shot is about a 1/4 second of travel. Adding kick between shots so you have to re-aim between shots would go along way. Maybe make that change and see if more is needed, rather then a bunch of changes at once. A Minmatar sniper with wind adjustment, drop, travel time would be nice. It could be balanced to the caldari with more damage so it was one hit kill more often, but harder to hit with.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 164	Posted - 2012.12.11 22:28:00 - [45] - Quote First off. Sniper stability in crouch can be attributed to the assist servos of the suit stabilizing aim. Being nearly immobile while crouching is expected. I don't really have a problem with this for snipers. If one wants scope sway to make it more challenging don't crouch, this will also increase one's immediate mobility. Returning to aim point after shot recoil can also be attributed to the same servo assist, but would be unlikely and should be taken out. Recoil should throw the rifle off target like it does now, just remove the return to aim point. Fix terrain glitch. It's not just snipers. I've been shot through terrain/walls with a variety of weapons without being able to see any part of the person shooting me. It sucks. And it also sucks when I get a sniper in my FG/HMG/AR/Assault Scrambler sights, pull the trigger, get the blue shield flash, and nothing. No damage, no kill, nothing. Range Indicator fix. Also not just for snipers. I see my reticule turn orange indicating that I have a shot but nothing happens when I fire. CCP needs to update the shot indicator to match weapon range changes. Windage/Bullet Drop/Travel Time. As it is, the velocity of the projectile (8000+ meters per second if I remember the description correctly) is so high that, at the current range limitations, those effects would be negligible unless one were firing in a hurricane or through tornado. Tracers are for people who are too lazy to look for the sniper. There's already a brief contrail that will point you towards the sniper's position if you spot it. Besides, no sniper in their right mind would actually use tracer rounds. Before assumptions, I don't play sniper in Dust. And also... We're not using the full maps yet. When we get to utilize the full map, game play dynamics will change dramatically.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.12.12 03:39:00 - [46] - Quote fahrenheitM wrote: If you want to return sway to snipers that are crouched and stationary, then you need to put it into the sites of AR users, especially ones that are moving. I can be MOVING with my AR and have pinpoint accuracy while scoped... Same as snipers that have to be crouched. Scope sway has nothing to do with realism. Nobody cares about realism. Realism is only a tool, not an objective. ARs are fine with no sway because the people using ARs have to put themselves in harms way to get kills. The challenge in using an AR is the challenge of being a grunt with other infantry, snipers, tanks, turrets, orbital strikes, and everything else barrelling down on you. The challenge of being a sniper should be, primarily, about aiming. Scope sway is part of that, or at least it should be. Currently, aiming is simpler for a sniper than for anyone else. It's a big reason why sniping is so imbalanced. Bullet drop, scope sway, tracers, bullet travel time. Once sniping takes skill you can start comparing ARs to sniper rifles. Ten-Sidhe wrote: At the speeds the railgun based sniper rifles fire projectiles, bullet drop would be less then the dispersion of a real sniper rifle. The travel time could be added so shots on moving targets need lead, max range shot is about a 1/4 second of travel. Adding kick between shots so you have to re-aim between shots would go along way. Maybe make that change and see if more is needed, rather then a bunch of changes at once. Nobody cares about railguns or projectile speeds written in the description. If they feel so inclined they can simply change that in order to reflect the gameplay more accurately. But the gameplay should never be beholden to the fiction. You aren't reading a book, you're playing a game. Legionay wrote: sniper stuff You can write stuff as much as you want, fact is you can easily get a crazy KDR as a sniper, managing 10 - 30 kills a game with 0 - 2 deaths, because all of the solutions people have proposed to dealing with snipers aren't practical. The only legitimately effective way to deal with snipers the majority of the time, while on your own, is to counter-snipe. And that's rather risky in itself. Otherwise, the best you can do is play the game normally and hope CCP fixes sniping sometime soon.
Gaff Origami ZionTCD Legacy Rising 49	Posted - 2012.12.12 06:05:00 - [47] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Wa wa wa Lost my long winded reply...so in summary: nothing about this game is realistic considering we run around in robotic suits if we're going to knock snipers back to 21st century (bullet drop, weapon stablization, etc.) let's make sure it's done on all weapons...we're call the game MW3 Eve-Edition I only go 30-1 when no one bothers to counter sniper me, 90% of my sniper deaths are from other snipers or tanks. Snipers (and everyone else) are ridiculously easy to spot anywhere on the map. If we nerf the sniper let's make sure we a.) add prone position, b.) add bipod attachment and c.) fix the damn hit detection bug that causes 35% of my shots to be duds (these are all for the sake of realism of course).
Eternal Technique Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 281	Posted - 2012.12.12 07:21:00 - [48] - Quote If people are not complaining about snipers then they are underpowered. They don't need a nerf, they need a tweak. Increase the recoil and have the reticle not reset to the same spot after each shot. The reason anyone can be a half decent sniper atm is that there is no incentive for headshots. Ppl just spam away until the enemy dies. Damage wise snipers are fine. Anything but a prototype sniper with proficiency skill trained and damage mods will not OHK prototype suits. Even then only headshots will usually do the trick. Nerfing that would make them ineffective when more ppl are using proto gear.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.12.13 19:27:00 - [49] - Quote Gaff Origami wrote: Lost my long winded reply...so in summary: nothing about this game is realistic considering we run around in robotic suits if we're going to knock snipers back to 21st century (bullet drop, weapon stablization, etc.) let's make sure it's done on all weapons...we're call the game MW3 Eve-Edition I only go 30-1 when no one bothers to counter sniper me, 90% of my sniper deaths are from other snipers or tanks. Snipers (and everyone else) are ridiculously easy to spot anywhere on the map. If we nerf the sniper let's make sure we a.) add prone position, b.) add bipod attachment and c.) fix the damn hit detection bug that causes 35% of my shots to be duds (these are all for the sake of realism of course). Nothing I advocate is about realism. I don't give a **** about realism. I don't know why you even mentioned it. That said, warfare in Dust has nothing to do with how warfare "realistically" would be in such a setting. Everything already is knocked back to the 21st century. Actually, it's knocked back to World War 2 times, essentially, as even today we're murdering people with unmanned drones and artillery/air power most of the time. Changes to sniping have nothing to do with the 21st century, the 19th century, the 3rd century BCE, or any other period of time you'd like to discuss for whatever reason. It has to do with what is fun in video games. Shocking concept, I know. Snipers, right now, are about the easiest version I've ever played in any video game ever. It's absurd, and it's mainly bad players who use sniping as a crutch to pretend like they're good when they go 30-1 who can't see that. Sniping, currently, makes the game less fun for everyone. Snipers have no challenge facing them and are just sitting around farming kills, while non-snipers are being randomly killed from across the map by people they can't even see apart from maybe a red arrow if they're lucky. It is not something that makes Dust a better game, and yet it could be much better. When they nerf sniping, as they're sure to do, they don't need to add prone, they don't need to add bipods, but they absolutely do need to finally fix hit detection. Hit detection is the only thing snipers can complain about.


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