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Jin J'Rayle
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
60
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Posted - 2012.10.10 16:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
Before I started playing the Beta I was expecting that skill training would be exactly the same as it is in EVE and to me that would've been cool and a differentiator from the other FPSes out there. I still think it would be interesting to see how it would be if it was such.
But nevertheless we have what we have. So I'm just throwing this out there as another option. This one is something that was implemented in MAG. "Happy Hour". Within a minimum 24 hour period you receive an active SP multiplier for an hour. After that hour you go back down to standard SP gain. You won't get another "Happy Hour" for at least 24 hours from when your last "Happy Hour" finished.
I thought this worked quite well for the casual gamers who could only log on for a few hours a day, if at all.
Thoughts? |
Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
91
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 16:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
4 is the only way to be fair to everyone unless the cap is refined. |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 16:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
1. One ONE. NEO. |
Waruiko DUST
G I A N T
90
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Posted - 2012.10.10 17:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
I like the idea of SP cap, but I don't like it when combined with the diminishing returns. Maybe if it stopped diminishing at about 2000 or so for a good game I could live with the current system. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 17:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Waruiko DUST wrote:I like the idea of SP cap, but I don't like it when combined with the diminishing returns. Maybe if it stopped diminishing at about 2000 or so for a good game I could live with the current system. I agree there needs to be a limit on how low it can go before it reaches 0. 2000 sounds pretty reasonable, getting that much a match is tedious enough. |
Sandair Mulholy
Codex Troopers
42
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Posted - 2012.10.10 17:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Your MonkeyWrench wrote:Sandair Mulholy wrote:Maybe option 6: No cap, diminishing returns with no hard reset (like a capacitor draining while you play, that recharges when you don't), but a way to buy SP with Aurum for the folks that can't play 8 hours a day because they work, but still want to be competitive. Probably with a limitation on the amount of SP you can buy. E.g.: You can buy 200K SP for each 200K SP that you earn in the game (or whatever number).
Obviously, some people will think this is evil, but CCP needs to make money, and people that want to pay to play should be rewarded. The best way to do that is to allow people that pay not to "waste" time grinding to level up. The theory being they work and thus have money but no time. Boosters already extend the SP cap by 50%...
Indeed, but the problem with the boosters is that for casual or occasional players, they are hard to justify. If you play only a couple of games a day, the boosters becomes pretty expensive for the SP that you get (Aurum/SP becomes very high). |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2012.10.10 17:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
I urge people to remember that a char with higher SP is not necessarily that much better in absolute terms. The reason is that a single weapon, or any speciality, can be maxed out by playing a medium amount relatively easy. While maxed out, it is the EXACT same as for the hardcore player while the hardcore player is more versatile.
Meaning, a 6M SP person who has maxed assault suit with AR is on par with 40M SP player in assault suit+AR with no kill advantage on either side. The 40M SP dude has a different advantage: different suits and vehicles up his sleeve, so he can adapt and have the right tools for the job at hand (which on the other hand in most cases can be countered the rock-paper-scissors way).
I believe CCP's initial plan was to give hardcore players incentive to play by opening up many different options as they progress, while getting the average player a fighting chance by specializing in one area first.
Of course, the brand new characters and newbies to the game are in disadvantage compared to all the others, but that is somewhat inevitable - one can't have everything straight away. The newb's challenge is directly proportional to how deep the said specialization goes, if the proficiency skills are strong it's harder for them, if the profic's are something like 1% or so it's easier. However, while important, this newb issue is not the one at hand.
SP gain system affects in the long term all: character development, player interest and overall balance.
(wow, that was a bit of a long introduction...)
It is in everyone's interest (both communitywise and for CCP's profit) to have as large regularly logging playerbase. It would be best to have system that encourages to log on regularly for a smaller period of time (remember, it's tempting to play 'still one more game' with your friends even thogh the rewards aren't that great). This is created best by having the 'sweet games' or 'happy hours' in every 24h or 48h.
Supporting the large playerbase is the fact that there should not be a godlike cadre absolutely untouchable players. Lot's of that is avoided by the lateral developement of characters explained in the intro. The rest is done by keeping the amouont of sweet SP's pretty small.
Someone might criticise that missing a day sets you back. True, but missing one or two days shouldn't be THAT big. How about weekend players? Well it might make sense to give some additional boost if you havent played for, say, four days. But we would have to be careful not to create a situation where it's better NOT to play for some days in order to get more SP as that would be bad.
---
My vote? Closest one is OPTION 4. |
NiceGuy Ice
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.10.10 17:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:What about keeping the hybrid system but flip it so its closer to the EVE side of things while keeping some classic fps progression elements.
The player queues up skills like in EVE so that the skill will finish after a curtain amount of time. When they play matches they get small amounts of SP that adds to the skill that is queued, so the skill can go by faster by playing matches. It is still close to the EVE system it just has small fps elements instead of vice versa.
^this |
Salazar Skye-fire
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2012.10.10 17:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
i have no problem with the cap i can just work on another toon and further diverse my skill tree much more quickly. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 17:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
If we are to have a cap, remove diminishing returns. Then somebody can play to the cap, switch to next character, no reason to make last bit of sp take so long. option 1
The sp for kills is a rpg element, shooters just started using it frequently, but it came from pencil and paper rpgs of the 1970's. EvE system could work as well in a shooter as it does in EvE, it would just need more adjustment for new players. They probably have enough to adjust to without it. |
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Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 18:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
this is going to be a challenge for the devs.
i said before that there is a line they are trying to find. if they give too many SP you will fill all your skills and just be pilling them up and people will stop playing.
if there are too little skill points the console players like all the K/D kiddies will lose interest.
they are working on finding the line between the two if they give two much the life of the game will be short, if they give too few the game will be a grindfest. |
Ky'noke Vyrus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.10.10 18:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Eve-style. No active sp. Because the 13375 complain about "get some gun game" then farm sp all day. Lets really make it about the gun game. Every toon will gain at about the same rate regardless of play time. Seems more "fair" to me than "oh I can play a lot so I should be rewarded for that right?"
I know it's too late for this so ill go with sleepy's idea. |
Bubbles moon
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 18:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sorry it's not up to vote |
Ky'noke Vyrus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 18:15:00 -
[44] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:
they are working on finding the line between the two if they give two much the life of the game will be short, if they give too few the game will be a grindfest.
Eve gives only passive sp. Doesn't make it a grindfest. So how do u figure? |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 06:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
My vote is EVE Style. That's one major thing EVE has going for it, is that it both limits skill acquired as well as evens the skill base to where you don't have to play constantly in order to "level up".
Weekly SP caps is better than daily, but even better IMO would be monthly. I have periods where RL is busy and I can't play often, and slower times where I can play nightly.
If the game wants to even out constant players with casual or semi-casual players, EVE style skill gain is best.
Alternatively, having 80% time based, and 20% cap based would give daily players a bonus (besides the tremendous ISK and personal experience benefit) of playing constantly, while still evening out the skill pool. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 12:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Quick add up
So far option 1 is most popular tbh
Followed by 'EVE' style option 3
2/4 is like meh |
Khemlar Maktaar
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 15:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
no 4 |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.10.12 16:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:I like current SP Gains as it stands. It is catered for us that work M-F -8-5. And we are the most likely population that will spend money supporting the game.
Agreed, sorry I'm not a kid anymore. I don't live at home with mommy and daddy anymore and have to work M-F 8-5. By having a SP cap each week, I can make sure to stay within reach of the hardcore players that play 8 hours a day, while I'm at work.
Some players hit the cap in 1-2 days, while it takes us working stiffs all week to get to the same point. The current system does not allow players to spend all day everyday get ahead of the players that don't have that option due to real life obligations.
At first I hated the idea of the cap, but after the first week and seeing that the hardcore players in our own corp are even with the rest of us, I came to love this SP cap.
Like it was mentioned before, hit the SP cap and start a new avatar. Go a different direction, have an AR player, AV player, vehicle player. Now you can have avatars ready when you need them for corp battles.
Please CCP stick with the current SP cap. The guys and girls that have to work want to be able to keep up with our die hard players and not fall behind each day and week. |
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
192
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 16:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
Here's a few I've been thinking about.
1) Bring in a MAG like happy hour. Meaning the first time the player logs in and starts a match it begins a 1 hour timer of double SP for an hour then goes back to normal.
This option gives players who only play a couple of matches a day a good boost and still lets players level at their leisure if they want to play more, only with less SP earned.
2) Remove diminishing returns and place a hard cap on the week, then make all matches yield a maximum of say 500-1000SP a match.
At least that way the players wanting to play wont feel like they got a huge kick in the balls for going something like 20/1 after a few days, like it currently is.
Personally whatever system is put in place I'll be playing the game, but I want new people trying the game to stick around and the current system will make them turn off quicker than a power cut. If new people don't join then I have nothing to shoot.
The other massive issue that people seem to whine about is the fact that this system is good as it stops people getting to far ahead of the curve. Well unfortunately the way the skills in this game work and the bonuses they give your not getting just more options as you progress, your physically getting better with everything you use.
Trying to hold back what is essentially THE progression system in this game, to me, is mind boggling. Holding the dedicated back to make up for the guys who can't play as often is nonsense. What are you gonna do in 3 years time, remove 10 million SP from everyone so it's more fair?.
The system is broken and a complete joke in it's current form. |
Deskalkulos Ildigan
CrimeWave Syndicate
115
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 16:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
3) Eve Style
I can see that many won't love this style, and that it will discourage them. But it's still better than what we have now (some who are grinding xp dominating everyone else with high end tech and skills) |
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Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 16:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=174592
Suggested ages ago, and supposedly in the works. This would fix the issue for most since you would never "cap out" only slow down. |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 16:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg wrote:Here's a few I've been thinking about.
1) Bring in a MAG like happy hour. Meaning the first time the player logs in and starts a match it begins a 1 hour timer of double SP for an hour then goes back to normal.
This option gives players who only play a couple of matches a day a good boost and still lets players level at their leisure if they want to play more, only with less SP earned.
2) Remove diminishing returns and place a hard cap on the week, then make all matches yield a maximum of say 500-1000SP a match.
At least that way the players wanting to play wont feel like they got a huge kick in the balls for going something like 20/1 after a few days, like it currently is.
Personally whatever system is put in place I'll be playing the game, but I want new people trying the game to stick around and the current system will make them turn off quicker than a power cut. If new people don't join then I have nothing to shoot.
The other massive issue that people seem to whine about is the fact that this system is good as it stops people getting to far ahead of the curve. Well unfortunately the way the skills in this game work and the bonuses they give your not getting just more options as you progress, your physically getting better with everything you use.
Trying to hold back what is essentially THE progression system in this game, to me, is mind boggling. Holding the dedicated back to make up for the guys who can't play as often is nonsense. What are you gonna do in 3 years time, remove 10 million SP from everyone so it's more fair?.
The system is broken and a complete joke in it's current form.
Dedicated = players that have no jobs and play all day long. Is that your definition of dedicated? Thats not dedication thats not having a real life in the real world. Why should any game cater to you, when its the players that have jobs that make $$$ that are the real dedicated players that will spend $$$ to get AUR, which is what keeps CCP in business.
Which one are you? Im betting dedicated, which means you have all day to play and you burn your self out in the first few days and do nothing else, then blame CCP for getting bad returns the rest of the week. It's your fault that you grind so hard so fast, but you blame the guys that have jobs and families?
Again play your alts, play other games, get a job, get a life.. heck just get outside maybe.
|
Cpl Quartz
127
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 16:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
Deskalkulos Ildigan wrote:3) Eve Style
I can see that many won't love this style, and that it will discourage them. But it's still better than what we have now (some who are grinding xp dominating everyone else with high end tech and skills)
what you dont get it that them people who play 40 hours a week are going to dominate you reagardless, any attempt by CCP to counter this with AUR items will make the game pay2win. |
Krynn 007
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 16:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
I just read the original post, and didn't scroll through the other 3 pages to see if this was mentioned but there is something that could be added to your list
Just like you said the more you play the less SP you'll get over time, so your first game you get 200 SP, but by the end of your 8th game your getting like 30SP. So that way your still working your way to your goal.
Now that does make it a bigger gap for players who play all the time over those of us who may get an hour or 2 in a night.
So the other option is to learn from other MMOs and offer a rested bonus. If your logged off for X amount of hours, you'll earn X% higher amount of SP. This of coarse will diminish over time, but this way for those who don't get as much time to keep up with others can earn a little extra more SP, and not feel like they are always falling behind
The only thing I fear about in this game is that once players get their suits and vehicles to their ideal levels the new players will just get destroyed and after getting slaughters the first round or 2 will turn away and go play something less challenging like CoD where any noob can win |
Cpl Quartz
127
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 16:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
DEADPOOL5241 wrote:Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg wrote:Here's a few I've been thinking about.
1) Bring in a MAG like happy hour. Meaning the first time the player logs in and starts a match it begins a 1 hour timer of double SP for an hour then goes back to normal.
This option gives players who only play a couple of matches a day a good boost and still lets players level at their leisure if they want to play more, only with less SP earned.
2) Remove diminishing returns and place a hard cap on the week, then make all matches yield a maximum of say 500-1000SP a match.
At least that way the players wanting to play wont feel like they got a huge kick in the balls for going something like 20/1 after a few days, like it currently is.
Personally whatever system is put in place I'll be playing the game, but I want new people trying the game to stick around and the current system will make them turn off quicker than a power cut. If new people don't join then I have nothing to shoot.
The other massive issue that people seem to whine about is the fact that this system is good as it stops people getting to far ahead of the curve. Well unfortunately the way the skills in this game work and the bonuses they give your not getting just more options as you progress, your physically getting better with everything you use.
Trying to hold back what is essentially THE progression system in this game, to me, is mind boggling. Holding the dedicated back to make up for the guys who can't play as often is nonsense. What are you gonna do in 3 years time, remove 10 million SP from everyone so it's more fair?.
The system is broken and a complete joke in it's current form. Dedicated = players that have no jobs and play all day long. Is that your definition of dedicated? Thats not dedication thats not having a real life in the real world. Why should any game cater to you, when its the players that have jobs that make $$$ that are the real dedicated players that will spend $$$ to get AUR, which is what keeps CCP in business. Which one are you? Im betting dedicated, which means you have all day to play and you burn your self out in the first few days and do nothing else, then blame CCP for getting bad returns the rest of the week. It's your fault that you grind so hard so fast, but you blame the guys that have jobs and families? Again play your alts, play other games, get a job, get a life.. heck just get outside maybe.
dedicated players will reward ccp a different way, boosters and such (if they get the balance right) they are just trying out the waters right now to see how many people they can nickle and dime (thats where the real money is in fp2 games people spending 30p here and there and bam by the end of the month you spent -ú30) anyway player numbers are saying it all regardless of whats being typed on these forums. less people playing means a bottom line of people don't like this build in general now whether that means that ccp and making more of less money that's another question. |
Cpl Quartz
127
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 16:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
Krynn 007 wrote:I just read the original post, and didn't scroll through the other 3 pages to see if this was mentioned but there is something that could be added to your list
Just like you said the more you play the less SP you'll get over time, so your first game you get 200 SP, but by the end of your 8th game your getting like 30SP. So that way your still working your way to your goal.
Now that does make it a bigger gap for players who play all the time over those of us who may get an hour or 2 in a night.
So the other option is to learn from other MMOs and offer a rested bonus. If your logged off for X amount of hours, you'll earn X% higher amount of SP. This of coarse will diminish over time, but this way for those who don't get as much time to keep up with others can earn a little extra more SP, and not feel like they are always falling behind
The only thing I fear about in this game is that once players get their suits and vehicles to their ideal levels the new players will just get destroyed and after getting slaughters the first round or 2 will turn away and go play something less challenging like CoD where any noob can win
ccp in their wisdom putting in a matchmaking system. ask any gamer if they have come across a game development company that successfully pulled this off. quake live failed miserably and it's exactly the same concept that they are trying to matchmake their way around. |
BLENDEDDAVE
WARRIORS 1NC
52
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 18:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
just look at how mag did it simple but mag was still to much brain work for a teenage cod fan boy so it failed just have no skill cap and make the sp gap biger between levels that way people can save loads of sp for say nexr assault suit or go for some thing in a different class at lower cost |
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