Wrong. Nerf is a foam dart. Get it right. :P

Hello All!,

I wanted to talk to you guys today about Nerfs vs Tweaks in games. To often in my opinion we see threads asking for nerfs to this or that. Often this is new players or players that are frustrated with the game and think that because they themselves can not do something or they get killed (often) by something that it is overpowered and needs the NERF hammer brought out.

But after many, many years of playing games, with many of them being MMO's, FPS etc., I have seen many forum posts that should have been asking for a tweak to a game mechanic or item, but instead use the word NERF.

Nerf is the worst word we could possibly use in any thread about any game. We the players really want just a small adjustment to something, but end up getting a far worse item or mechanic then even we intended.

As an example of this, I worked for Sony and DCUO for two years (see Deadpools guide to Gadgets). Many, many times players would ask for a nerf on a power or weapon in the game. But the devs instead of going at the aforementioned weapon or power with a scalpel and just slightly tweak, they brought out the mighty NERF HAMMER and end up destroying it.

We Dust bunnies, have seen this a few times. AV items, heavy weapons, suits. Now we face the tank nerf, suit nerf, weapons nerf in the future build coming in a few weeks (soonGäó).

Whats the point of this thread.. well its simple. Be careful what you ask for, we all want a good game.. Right? But we need to work on how we present this to CCP. It's not the devs fault, they are just listening to us the players who have many more hours of playing they do. So while I 100% encourage and ask that you make great threads about tweaks to certain parts of this game we love. Just do it in a fashion that does not get the nerf hammer out.

To CCP devs: Take your time with making changes to the game, put out polls and ask the mass of people here on the forums, instead of listening to a few whiners.

Thank you taking the time to read this, wish you all a good day and happy gaming.

Can't stop the flood of blood - STB
DeadpoolGäó

Well said.

IMHO they'd need to include the poll IN GAME. Because I know there are a lot of people out there who can't/don't access the forums.

Deadpool, the idea of polls for changes sounds amazing. If only more people thought like you.

The only time you will ever see this sentence in these forums..

Why? People don't like it when they're killed by a squad of guys who work together or something? I've tried gettin into a squad for more than a match, I take orders well and generally don't suck too hard.. But most of the random ones I've seen don't work. I've gone against STB... and it sucks to try it alone

From my experience, and i say this in agreement with your own statements, nerfs lead to a perpetual cycle of Re-Balancing.

Tweaks are preferred, even if they take longer to reach a balance.

But,

it is better to treat the cause rather then the symptoms.

Think back to all the times players have asked for nerfs to anything, what happens.. devs go to far in the change and then they get a backlash from players who never wanted these changes. But when Devs make small changes, little tweaks here and there to improve game performance or game mechanics it goes a long way with the players.

Thats what we need to keep in mind each time we suggest a change to the game. Are we asking to much or are we asking in a way that would lead to a large change.

We all like tanks (maybe not all), but we also want a way to counter them better. CCP has seen this and they are adding more weapons, fixing the over nerf of AV items (see its happening already), and changes to the tanks themselves.

Does anyone else think that maybe before we do changes to tanks, lets bring out the new items first then adjust the tanks to be inline with the new items? (or is it just me?)

Small changes can happen more often then big changes, so lets work on small buffs, small tweaks to this game instead of:

"tanks are OP, nerf tanks, I hate them.. "

when it should be:

"tanks are really tough to beat, there seems to be to many of them on the battle field. CCP can you offer us more options to beat tanks"

Best advice I can ever offer for a game or life. K.I.S.S which is Keep it simple stupid. Ask for simple tweaks not game breaking changes to everything.

We should wait and see what the current changes will bring, they're tweaking AV again and adding items, so why don't we see if that makes it easier. Also once I see more people trying to go AV, I'll actually listen to people when they say it still isn't working.

I agree. Splendidly well said Deadpool. May the scalpel be with us, and may we never have to see THE HAMMER again :)

Had 2 search for this and bring it back to the top for the games sake read it and learn ppl.




END TRANSMISSION..............................

Hello All!,

I wanted to talk to you guys today about Nerfs vs Tweaks in games. To often in my opinion we see threads asking for nerfs to this or that. Often this is new players or players that are frustrated with the game and think that because they themselves can not do something or they get killed (often) by something that it is overpowered and needs the NERF hammer brought out.

But after many, many years of playing games, with many of them being MMO's, FPS etc., I have seen many forum posts that should have been asking for a tweak to a game mechanic or item, but instead use the word NERF.

Nerf is the worst word we could possibly use in any thread about any game. We the players really want just a small adjustment to something, but end up getting a far worse item or mechanic then even we intended.

As an example of this, I worked for Sony and DCUO for two years (see Deadpools guide to Gadgets). Many, many times players would ask for a nerf on a power or weapon in the game. But the devs instead of going at the aforementioned weapon or power with a scalpel and just slightly tweak, they brought out the mighty NERF HAMMER and end up destroying it.

We Dust bunnies, have seen this a few times. AV items, heavy weapons, suits. Now we face the tank nerf, suit nerf, weapons nerf in the future build coming in a few weeks (soonGäó).

Whats the point of this thread.. well its simple. Be careful what you ask for, we all want a good game.. Right? But we need to work on how we present this to CCP. It's not the devs fault, they are just listening to us the players who have many more hours of playing they do. So while I 100% encourage and ask that you make great threads about tweaks to certain parts of this game we love. Just do it in a fashion that does not get the nerf hammer out.

To CCP devs: Take your time with making changes to the game, put out polls and ask the mass of people here on the forums, instead of listening to a few whiners.

Thank you taking the time to read this, wish you all a good day and happy gaming.

Can't stop the flood of blood - STB
DeadpoolGäó

It's not the devs fault, they are just listening to us the players who have many more hours of playing they do.

You figure people who get paid a living wage to professionally decide how games will work are going to sit around on these forums and try to figure out what the tiny minority of Dust testers who use these forums want, and then go and do that? I really hate to burst your bubble, but we're not here to give balance testing ideas. The best we can ever do is provide enough volume about a certain issue that CCP reviews it themselves and comes to their own conclusion. You're kidding yourself if you think they're going to make changes to this multi-million dollar enterprise based on nothing but the ramblings of a few of us.

Actually if you looked at the threads CCP makes about in game adjustments they are getting the ideas from us. Look at the weekly posted to do list the devs post, it includes all of our ideas. Look at the tank nerf, movement nerf, dropship nerf.. Etc. We the players did that, we whine enough about it that it got fixed. So yes we the players have a HUGE voice in this beta.

Actually if you looked at the threads CCP makes about in game adjustments they are getting the ideas from us. Look at the weekly posted to do list the devs post, it includes all of our ideas. Look at the tank nerf, movement nerf, dropship nerf.. Etc. We the players did that, we whine enough about it that it got fixed. So yes we the players have a HUGE voice in this beta.

Hello All!,

I wanted to talk to you guys today about Nerfs vs Tweaks in games. To often in my opinion we see threads asking for nerfs to this or that. Often this is new players or players that are frustrated with the game and think that because they themselves can not do something or they get killed (often) by something that it is overpowered and needs the NERF hammer brought out.

But after many, many years of playing games, with many of them being MMO's, FPS etc., I have seen many forum posts that should have been asking for a tweak to a game mechanic or item, but instead use the word NERF.

Nerf is the worst word we could possibly use in any thread about any game. We the players really want just a small adjustment to something, but end up getting a far worse item or mechanic then even we intended.

As an example of this, I worked for Sony and DCUO for two years (see Deadpools guide to Gadgets). Many, many times players would ask for a nerf on a power or weapon in the game. But the devs instead of going at the aforementioned weapon or power with a scalpel and just slightly tweak, they brought out the mighty NERF HAMMER and end up destroying it.

We Dust bunnies, have seen this a few times. AV items, heavy weapons, suits. Now we face the tank nerf, suit nerf, weapons nerf in the future build coming in a few weeks (soonGäó).

Whats the point of this thread.. well its simple. Be careful what you ask for, we all want a good game.. Right? But we need to work on how we present this to CCP. It's not the devs fault, they are just listening to us the players who have many more hours of playing they do. So while I 100% encourage and ask that you make great threads about tweaks to certain parts of this game we love. Just do it in a fashion that does not get the nerf hammer out.

To CCP devs: Take your time with making changes to the game, put out polls and ask the mass of people here on the forums, instead of listening to a few whiners.

Thank you taking the time to read this, wish you all a good day and happy gaming.

Can't stop the flood of blood - STB
DeadpoolGäó

My poor ice got the NERFHAMMER brought down ontop of it in DCUO, why you no stop it deadpool WHY!

It is not that people are complaining that is the problem

It is that CCP does not understand the tweaking concept. Or do they understand that alot of the time it is a team of militant people getting ran over by proto gear. And they try nerfing the proto gear according to that. instead of tweaking to skill lvl. They need to skill lvl there lobbies instead of throwing newbies in with protos and then someone screams tank OP, or dropship OP or Tactical rifle OP all of a sudden my tank is getting hurt to the point that Millitant gear becomes a problem for it. The tatical rifle was the perfect counter to lasers but now you are unable to truely keep a bead on someone because the kick is worse then snipers and has slower return to center time then snipers. Because CCP does not understand tweaking in very very small ways. They are a nerf/buff video game designer and in reality that is the long way to do things. Tweaking is faster and better way unless you have a serious problem where the weapon is so over used and OPed it is breaking things in the game.

+1 to you sir. You get what I am throwing down. But this is par for the course for almost all MMO's, from WOW to DCUO.
Good players use the good weapons, while bad or newer players whine and moan asking for Nerf this and that, when really its the players lack of knowledge to make a good build, how to use skill points correctly or just the lack of skill of the player, they get butt hurt over it and complain and tell CCP nerf this and that and CCP listens.

I blame CCP for going crossing the line, but for jumping over the line and driving two miles.

CCP learn to tweak and not NERF. Big kitten difference.

You're my new hero. And this is the best thread today, few trolls and lots of agreements. Such rarity deserves my likes, so here, it's yours, take them all a long with my respect.

I approve this message.

I wonder though if the devs are using the extremes in order to try and find a happy middle. You know, a whole "too hot, too cold, and then just right" approach.

The problem is there will never be a "just right." There will always be that group that gets pissy.

Wrong. Nerf is a foam dart. Get it right. :P

Ha Ha DP headed to the most informative and read thread in the game again, like it. Must agree was there for a lot of the DCUO nerfing. I pray that this game takes the scalpel over the hammer and I am here far longer than I was in DCUO.