DUST Search - Tweak vs Nerf, know the difference.

Xantanis wrote:

STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote:

Billi Gene wrote:

From my experience, and i say this in agreement with your own statements, nerfs lead to a perpetual cycle of Re-Balancing.

Tweaks are preferred, even if they take longer to reach a balance.

But,

it is better to treat the cause rather then the symptoms.

Think back to all the times players have asked for nerfs to anything, what happens.. devs go to far in the change and then they get a backlash from players who never wanted these changes. But when Devs make small changes, little tweaks here and there to improve game performance or game mechanics it goes a long way with the players.

Thats what we need to keep in mind each time we suggest a change to the game. Are we asking to much or are we asking in a way that would lead to a large change.

We all like tanks (maybe not all), but we also want a way to counter them better. CCP has seen this and they are adding more weapons, fixing the over nerf of AV items (see its happening already), and changes to the tanks themselves.

Does anyone else think that maybe before we do changes to tanks, lets bring out the new items first then adjust the tanks to be inline with the new items? (or is it just me?)

Small changes can happen more often then big changes, so lets work on small buffs, small tweaks to this game instead of:

"tanks are OP, nerf tanks, I hate them.. "

when it should be:

"tanks are really tough to beat, there seems to be to many of them on the battle field. CCP can you offer us more options to beat tanks"

Best advice I can ever offer for a game or life. K.I.S.S which is Keep it simple stupid. Ask for simple tweaks not game breaking changes to everything.

We should wait and see what the current changes will bring, they're tweaking AV again and adding items, so why don't we see if that makes it easier. Also once I see more people trying to go AV, I'll actually listen to people when they say it still isn't working.


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STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:08:00 - [1] - Quote Hello All!, I wanted to talk to you guys today about Nerfs vs Tweaks in games. To often in my opinion we see threads asking for nerfs to this or that. Often this is new players or players that are frustrated with the game and think that because they themselves can not do something or they get killed (often) by something that it is overpowered and needs the NERF hammer brought out. But after many, many years of playing games, with many of them being MMO's, FPS etc., I have seen many forum posts that should have been asking for a tweak to a game mechanic or item, but instead use the word NERF. Nerf is the worst word we could possibly use in any thread about any game. We the players really want just a small adjustment to something, but end up getting a far worse item or mechanic then even we intended. As an example of this, I worked for Sony and DCUO for two years (see Deadpools guide to Gadgets). Many, many times players would ask for a nerf on a power or weapon in the game. But the devs instead of going at the aforementioned weapon or power with a scalpel and just slightly tweak, they brought out the mighty NERF HAMMER and end up destroying it. We Dust bunnies, have seen this a few times. AV items, heavy weapons, suits. Now we face the tank nerf, suit nerf, weapons nerf in the future build coming in a few weeks (soonGäó). Whats the point of this thread.. well its simple. Be careful what you ask for, we all want a good game.. Right? But we need to work on how we present this to CCP. It's not the devs fault, they are just listening to us the players who have many more hours of playing they do. So while I 100% encourage and ask that you make great threads about tweaks to certain parts of this game we love. Just do it in a fashion that does not get the nerf hammer out. To CCP devs: Take your time with making changes to the game, put out polls and ask the mass of people here on the forums, instead of listening to a few whiners. Thank you taking the time to read this, wish you all a good day and happy gaming. Can't stop the flood of blood - STB DeadpoolGäó
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.09.12 18:54:00 - [2] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Wrong. Nerf is a foam dart. Get it right. :P ROFL, lucky I like you..
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.09.12 19:16:00 - [3] - Quote Thanks guy appreciate the honest replies. I know all of this will soon be forgotten by most, but its only beta and we have had to much of the hammer and not enough of the scalpel when it comes to changes in this game. Please don't let this be a pattern of things to come.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.09.12 19:56:00 - [4] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Well said. Thanks Tony.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.09.12 20:24:00 - [5] - Quote Xantanis wrote: Deadpool, the idea of polls for changes sounds amazing. If only more people thought like you. The only time you will ever see this sentence in these forums.. It's not about who is right or wrong, its about finding that middle ground that everyone can accept and work with. If you just take the forums posters, then you are only looking at 5% to 10% (at max). We are but a small sample of the players that play this game. So while we are the most vocal, we are not the majority here. You have to keep this in mind when you say that "we all want this fixed" when really its just a few of you/us.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.09.12 20:43:00 - [6] - Quote Xantanis wrote: STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote: Xantanis wrote: Deadpool, the idea of polls for changes sounds amazing. If only more people thought like you. The only time you will ever see this sentence in these forums.. Why? People don't like it when they're killed by a squad of guys who work together or something? I've tried gettin into a squad for more than a match, I take orders well and generally don't suck too hard.. But most of the random ones I've seen don't work. I've gone against STB... and it sucks to try it alone LMAO.. not STB, we are all proud of the family we belong to. I was talking about me . Sides maybe a few players, no one knows who I am. I'd like to keep it that way and work my way back up the community ladder again and have a small voice in the future of Dust. But that is through hard work and dedication to you the community players. Not because of what I have done in the past. But your comment gives me hope that I am on the right path with this. I don't have time to be the great guide maker again, it takes to much of my real life time to do such work.(sides the new girl friend won't let me..) So I have to work through the comments I make, the threads I post and gain the respect of my elders and fellow players. This is just one of those threads. Please help your fellow players, try to be a decent poster (even I will troll from time to time), try to help others get better so they can enjoy the game more. Add me in game, send me a group invite and Ill be glad to talk and play with you. If you seem like a fun guy, decent player and want more training and work hard on your game play, I will be glad to support you in joining STB or any other corp that you want.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.09.12 21:09:00 - [7] - Quote Billi Gene wrote: From my experience, and i say this in agreement with your own statements, nerfs lead to a perpetual cycle of Re-Balancing. Tweaks are preferred, even if they take longer to reach a balance. But, it is better to treat the cause rather then the symptoms. Think back to all the times players have asked for nerfs to anything, what happens.. devs go to far in the change and then they get a backlash from players who never wanted these changes. But when Devs make small changes, little tweaks here and there to improve game performance or game mechanics it goes a long way with the players. Thats what we need to keep in mind each time we suggest a change to the game. Are we asking to much or are we asking in a way that would lead to a large change. We all like tanks (maybe not all), but we also want a way to counter them better. CCP has seen this and they are adding more weapons, fixing the over nerf of AV items (see its happening already), and changes to the tanks themselves. Does anyone else think that maybe before we do changes to tanks, lets bring out the new items first then adjust the tanks to be inline with the new items? (or is it just me?) Small changes can happen more often then big changes, so lets work on small buffs, small tweaks to this game instead of: "tanks are OP, nerf tanks, I hate them.. " when it should be: "tanks are really tough to beat, there seems to be to many of them on the battle field. CCP can you offer us more options to beat tanks" Best advice I can ever offer for a game or life. K.I.S.S which is Keep it simple stupid. Ask for simple tweaks not game breaking changes to everything.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.09.12 22:11:00 - [8] - Quote Xantanis wrote: STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote: Billi Gene wrote: From my experience, and i say this in agreement with your own statements, nerfs lead to a perpetual cycle of Re-Balancing. Tweaks are preferred, even if they take longer to reach a balance. But, it is better to treat the cause rather then the symptoms. Think back to all the times players have asked for nerfs to anything, what happens.. devs go to far in the change and then they get a backlash from players who never wanted these changes. But when Devs make small changes, little tweaks here and there to improve game performance or game mechanics it goes a long way with the players. Thats what we need to keep in mind each time we suggest a change to the game. Are we asking to much or are we asking in a way that would lead to a large change. We all like tanks (maybe not all), but we also want a way to counter them better. CCP has seen this and they are adding more weapons, fixing the over nerf of AV items (see its happening already), and changes to the tanks themselves. Does anyone else think that maybe before we do changes to tanks, lets bring out the new items first then adjust the tanks to be inline with the new items? (or is it just me?) Small changes can happen more often then big changes, so lets work on small buffs, small tweaks to this game instead of: "tanks are OP, nerf tanks, I hate them.. " when it should be: "tanks are really tough to beat, there seems to be to many of them on the battle field. CCP can you offer us more options to beat tanks" Best advice I can ever offer for a game or life. K.I.S.S which is Keep it simple stupid. Ask for simple tweaks not game breaking changes to everything. We should wait and see what the current changes will bring, they're tweaking AV again and adding items, so why don't we see if that makes it easier. Also once I see more people trying to go AV, I'll actually listen to people when they say it still isn't working. See thats what I am thinking as well, lets play with the new toys and see if it makes a difference. Then change the tanks or LAV's. If we change it all and then add items to infantry that will just make the tank drivers mad and then we get tanks are nerfed or underpowered threads.
STB DEADPOOL5241 EV Doomheim 352	Posted - 2012.09.13 21:17:00 - [9] - Quote Rayan Storm wrote: I agree. Splendidly well said Deadpool. May the scalpel be with us, and may we never have to see THE HAMMER again :) TY sir, appreciate that. I say we use this argument when ever we see a nerf this or that thread. I have seen 4 of them today and a few times ive seen my thread used as a way to counter argue the use of nerf and or remove of item. Stop the nerf, use the scalpel.