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DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.05 15:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
LOL, it is a good thread. I was thinking about finding it and bringing it back from the dead, obviously it is still a relevant discussion to have not only between ourselves but for CCP as well.
+1 to you guys for finding it.
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DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.05 16:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
But it is up to us the players to get the word out about tweaks vs nerfs. We the players are the ones who beta test for CCP, we are the front line to whats going on in the game. So "WE" need to look at out posts and decide are we asking for the right adjustment to in game mechanics. |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.05 16:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote:It's not the devs fault, they are just listening to us the players who have many more hours of playing they do. You figure people who get paid a living wage to professionally decide how games will work are going to sit around on these forums and try to figure out what the tiny minority of Dust testers who use these forums want, and then go and do that? I really hate to burst your bubble, but we're not here to give balance testing ideas. The best we can ever do is provide enough volume about a certain issue that CCP reviews it themselves and comes to their own conclusion. You're kidding yourself if you think they're going to make changes to this multi-million dollar enterprise based on nothing but the ramblings of a few of us.
Actually if you looked at the threads CCP makes about in game adjustments they are getting the ideas from us. Look at the weekly posted to do list the devs post, it includes all of our ideas. Look at the tank nerf, movement nerf, dropship nerf.. Etc. We the players did that, we whine enough about it that it got fixed. So yes we the players have a HUGE voice in this beta. |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.05 20:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:STB DEADPOOL5241 EV wrote:Hello All!,
I wanted to talk to you guys today about Nerfs vs Tweaks in games. To often in my opinion we see threads asking for nerfs to this or that. Often this is new players or players that are frustrated with the game and think that because they themselves can not do something or they get killed (often) by something that it is overpowered and needs the NERF hammer brought out.
But after many, many years of playing games, with many of them being MMO's, FPS etc., I have seen many forum posts that should have been asking for a tweak to a game mechanic or item, but instead use the word NERF.
Nerf is the worst word we could possibly use in any thread about any game. We the players really want just a small adjustment to something, but end up getting a far worse item or mechanic then even we intended.
As an example of this, I worked for Sony and DCUO for two years (see Deadpools guide to Gadgets). Many, many times players would ask for a nerf on a power or weapon in the game. But the devs instead of going at the aforementioned weapon or power with a scalpel and just slightly tweak, they brought out the mighty NERF HAMMER and end up destroying it.
We Dust bunnies, have seen this a few times. AV items, heavy weapons, suits. Now we face the tank nerf, suit nerf, weapons nerf in the future build coming in a few weeks (soonGäó).
Whats the point of this thread.. well its simple. Be careful what you ask for, we all want a good game.. Right? But we need to work on how we present this to CCP. It's not the devs fault, they are just listening to us the players who have many more hours of playing they do. So while I 100% encourage and ask that you make great threads about tweaks to certain parts of this game we love. Just do it in a fashion that does not get the nerf hammer out.
To CCP devs: Take your time with making changes to the game, put out polls and ask the mass of people here on the forums, instead of listening to a few whiners.
Thank you taking the time to read this, wish you all a good day and happy gaming.
Can't stop the flood of blood - STB
DeadpoolGäó
My poor ice got the NERFHAMMER brought down ontop of it in DCUO, why you no stop it deadpool WHY!
I heard, DCUO is a joke to me right now. I have not touched my Gadgets god player.
I actually got the idea from DCUO with the nerf hammer and scalpel. They would do HUGE adjustments with out testing, something I hope CCP avoids.
I got news from Shady Milkman from DCUO that they turned my guide into a YouTube video. I saw it, not bad lol.
You still playing Almighty? |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.21 17:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ok, I'm bringing back this thread to prove a point.
Stop asking for nerfs, CCP is taking all of your comments and using them to death, there is a thread to nerf everything right now.
We may as well call this NERF 514, because soon we will be playing with nerf bats, nerf guns and nerf tanks. Is that what you all really want? Stop the Kitten madness and think before you post you kitten morons.
If you have played any MMO before you know this is common, they bring out a new weapon or gear or item and its OP. So they nerf it down, then the next weapon and next weapon. Soon they will all be doing low damage and we start having 5 min battles with two players..
Nerf the glare, nerf the sun, my MCC is OP nerf it, my nanohive is OP nerf it...
@ CCP this is as much your fault as it is every player that is asking for a nerf. Kitten think before you do some of these changes.
Its not the end of the world, so stop acting like it is CCP. |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.21 20:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:It is not that people are complaining that is the problem
It is that CCP does not understand the tweaking concept. Or do they understand that alot of the time it is a team of militant people getting ran over by proto gear. And they try nerfing the proto gear according to that. instead of tweaking to skill lvl. They need to skill lvl there lobbies instead of throwing newbies in with protos and then someone screams tank OP, or dropship OP or Tactical rifle OP all of a sudden my tank is getting hurt to the point that Millitant gear becomes a problem for it. The tatical rifle was the perfect counter to lasers but now you are unable to truely keep a bead on someone because the kick is worse then snipers and has slower return to center time then snipers. Because CCP does not understand tweaking in very very small ways. They are a nerf/buff video game designer and in reality that is the long way to do things. Tweaking is faster and better way unless you have a serious problem where the weapon is so over used and OPed it is breaking things in the game.
+1 to you sir. You get what I am throwing down. But this is par for the course for almost all MMO's, from WOW to DCUO.
Good players use the good weapons, while bad or newer players whine and moan asking for Nerf this and that, when really its the players lack of knowledge to make a good build, how to use skill points correctly or just the lack of skill of the player, they get butt hurt over it and complain and tell CCP nerf this and that and CCP listens.
I blame CCP for going crossing the line, but for jumping over the line and driving two miles.
CCP learn to tweak and not NERF. Big kitten difference. |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.21 20:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:DEADPOOL5241 wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:It is not that people are complaining that is the problem
It is that CCP does not understand the tweaking concept. Or do they understand that alot of the time it is a team of militant people getting ran over by proto gear. And they try nerfing the proto gear according to that. instead of tweaking to skill lvl. They need to skill lvl there lobbies instead of throwing newbies in with protos and then someone screams tank OP, or dropship OP or Tactical rifle OP all of a sudden my tank is getting hurt to the point that Millitant gear becomes a problem for it. The tatical rifle was the perfect counter to lasers but now you are unable to truely keep a bead on someone because the kick is worse then snipers and has slower return to center time then snipers. Because CCP does not understand tweaking in very very small ways. They are a nerf/buff video game designer and in reality that is the long way to do things. Tweaking is faster and better way unless you have a serious problem where the weapon is so over used and OPed it is breaking things in the game. +1 to you sir. You get what I am throwing down. But this is par for the course for almost all MMO's, from WOW to DCUO. Good players use the good weapons, while bad or newer players whine and moan asking for Nerf this and that, when really its the players lack of knowledge to make a good build, how to use skill points correctly or just the lack of skill of the player, they get butt hurt over it and complain and tell CCP nerf this and that and CCP listens. I blame CCP for going crossing the line, but for jumping over the line and driving two miles. CCP learn to tweak and not NERF. Big kitten difference. You're my new hero. And this is the best thread today, few trolls and lots of agreements. Such rarity deserves my likes, so here, it's yours, take them all a long with my respect.
TY, we the players need to step up and either squash the Nerf threads to death, or CCP needs to open more communication with the players so we do get tweaks and not giant nerfing of every item in the game. CCP you built weapons, they do damage to what they hit, stop nerfing them to be pee shooters. Increase shields, increase armor but stop nerfing weapons to not be weapons anymore. This is a serious pattern you are falling into and it wont stop until you do.
We players have the power, we are the ones who suggest nerfs, so the first move is on us to stop. |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.21 21:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kovak Therim wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I approve this message.
I wonder though if the devs are using the extremes in order to try and find a happy middle. You know, a whole "too hot, too cold, and then just right" approach. The problem is there will never be a "just right." There will always be that group that gets pissy.
Over the years of working for Sony on DCUO, I learned a few things. One, we the forum players are but a small fraction of the players in this game. But with Dust in beta, you actually play with most of the players on the forums, this changes when we go live and have many more players, but for now. I think we the majority of the players are in the forums. So CCP sees this and says well if our beta testers as a majority say thinks that things are OP, then lets try it out. But like mentioned above, the go to the extreme, then try to come back middle. (face palm... anyone.. ) When we the players ask for nerfs, we don't mean make the item useless, just tweak it, a LITTLE bit.. then let us test it. If more needs to be done, then again go small and see if it works. |
DEADPOOL5241
Doomheim
212
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Posted - 2012.12.21 22:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Goat of Dover wrote:Ha Ha DP headed to the most informative and read thread in the game again, like it. Must agree was there for a lot of the DCUO nerfing. I pray that this game takes the scalpel over the hammer and I am here far longer than I was in DCUO.
Goat, you played DCUO?
What name and what league? Were you Goat of Dover on there as well? I seem to remember one on there.
Ha, yeah the gadgets guide. My old pride and joy.
So you see the same pattern, DCUO did the same thing to each class. CCP is doing the same thing over and over, see a thread and then tell devs to nerf the kitten out it.
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