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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is kind of confusing.
The physical structure and properties of the brain is what creates our mental features (consciousness, personality, memory, etc). The mind (or consciousness) is a continuous process, or action being performed by the brain; the mind is to the brain what running is to legs. Keeping that in mind, I don't understand how "transfer of consciousness" works in clones, its like transferring the act of running to a different set of legs. How does that work? Sure you could replace the legs (or brain) piece by piece until no original parts left, thus it becomes a different set of legs (or a different brain) while still preserving and continuing the process/action, but that isn't what happens when we respawn. Our mind somehow migrates from one brain to the other, thats like the act of running somehow leaving a pair of legs, and attaching itself to a different pair of legs... doesn't really make sense. How does this work? in EVE fiction, what is the mind, or consciousness? |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quantum mechanics, nanotechnology, respawn lampshading, "a wizard did it", etc.
I believe there is an EVE novel that digs into this stuff. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quantum mechanics would explain the instant transfer part, since quantum entanglement is instant... other than that, it really does sound like the "a wizard did it" trope. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
At least CCP came up with something. All other shooters don't even try. |
Lixet
The Craniac Naloran Project
50
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
You're a wizard Harry |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Skihids wrote:At least CCP came up with something. All other shooters don't even try.
True, and I do appreciate this. 1st shooter I have played that actually tried. |
Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading |
Primus Core
Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention
22
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
EVE capsuleers and DUST mercs are essentially bio-mechanical beings. If anything, we're more cyborg than human. Most of our brains consist of numerous nano-mechanical circuits and biological implants to improve cognitive function, among other things. Essentially, we took our brains and turned them into an even more advanced computer. This "transfer of consciousness" is simply the act of taking one computer's memory storage and transferring it all wirelessly, near-instaneously, to another computer. |
Sake Monster
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
353
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
We are Cylons. |
Andius Fidelitas
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Giorgio A. Tsoukalos Face*
Aliens |
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Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
There is detailed info about this on Evelopedia, but basically at the moment of death, it scans the state of each neuron, dendrite etc. destroying the source brain in the process, and instantaneously re-creates all that in the clone brain.
If you take an instantaneous snapshot of a process, for example that of consciousness, and instantaneously re-create it somewhere else, it seems like that process would basically be moved somewhere else. |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
393
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
to learn how to transfer consciousness, watch THIS TV show HERE or buy it HERE |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kyy Seiska wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading
The word transfer implies moving, but really this is just copying. Maybe in Dust its also just copying, but that's not the impression I got from the trailer. |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Primus Core wrote:EVE capsuleers and DUST mercs are essentially bio-mechanical beings. If anything, we're more cyborg than human. Most of our brains consist of numerous nano-mechanical circuits and biological implants to improve cognitive function, among other things. Essentially, we took our brains and turned them into an even more advanced computer. This "transfer of consciousness" is simply the act of taking one computer's memory storage and transferring it all wirelessly, near-instaneously, to another computer. This is not accurate. The scientific articles specifically mention scanning neurons, turning the original brain into jelly, etc. Just because a brain has implants doesn't make it a computer.
I believe you may be confusing this with Ghost in the Shell. |
Sandromin Hes
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
204
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
It's based off the brain mapping idea that you can transfer the actual thing that gives a being its consciousness to another body. It's very odd indeed... theoretically, the mass of consciousness learns from each clones action, and you could possibly split the consciousness into different parts, thereby making multiple clones... however, due to the New Reykjavik Convention of 20001, this is considered 'inhumane'...
It is a very odd idea. I think their belief is that the consciousness is copied upon death, and you start thinking with your new pair of legs... it depends on you belief system. One belief system would say that both clones have their own consciousness, while the other would say they're linked together... I think the computer running these clones *actually* has your consciousness and that the computer focuses on one clone at a time rather than the above. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:There is detailed info about this on Evelopedia, but basically at the moment of death, it scans the state of each neuron, dendrite etc. destroying the source brain in the process, and instantaneously re-creates all that in the clone brain.
If you take an instantaneous snapshot of a process, for example that of consciousness, and instantaneously re-create it somewhere else, it seems like that process would basically be moved somewhere else.
So its really copying and not a transfer, thank you :) |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Kyy Seiska wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading The word transfer implies moving, but really this is just copying. Maybe in Dust its also just copying, but that's not the impression I got from the trailer. It's not copying, because the original is destroyed in the process.
If you record the state of something, destroy it, and recreate it elsewhere, that's essentially moving it. |
H4rabec Weathers
16
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Skihids wrote:At least CCP came up with something. All other shooters don't even try.
LOL yuo make is sound like it wasnt proggression from games they played.
some of them ar as ol as the hills. as old as jetpacks anyway. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
I thought it would be copying when I first heard about the game, but I thought somehow the mind was actually transferred somehow when I saw the Fanfest 2012 trailer when they were talking about the Sleeper brain tech. I wrote some fanfiction about the idea of copying the mind in Dust a long long while ago http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/p/copy-of-psycho-dust-514-based-story.html |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:There is detailed info about this on Evelopedia, but basically at the moment of death, it scans the state of each neuron, dendrite etc. destroying the source brain in the process, and instantaneously re-creates all that in the clone brain.
If you take an instantaneous snapshot of a process, for example that of consciousness, and instantaneously re-create it somewhere else, it seems like that process would basically be moved somewhere else. So its really copying and not a transfer, thank you :) If that's copying then so is Star Trek transporter technology. Every Star Trek character would be the copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the original. For that matter, each person would be a copy of themselves seven years ago, since all of a human body's cells are replaced every seven years or so.
Copying implies making a duplicate, leaving the original intact. When you copy a file on a computer, you have the original and the copy. When you move a file in a computer, you delete the original, transfer the bits, and recreate the file somewhere else on the computer.
So unless you believe in some metaphysical "soul", the consciousness is basically the state of the brain and the ongoing process of it working. If you capture that and recreate it elsewhere, that's transferring it. |
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Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
of a copy |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:of a copy
of a copy
|
Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I thought it would be copying when I first heard about the game, but I thought somehow the mind was actually transferred somehow when I saw the Fanfest 2012 trailer when they were talking about the Sleeper brain tech. I wrote some fanfiction about the idea of copying the mind in Dust a long long while ago http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/p/copy-of-psycho-dust-514-based-story.html And how would you propose reliably transferring a human consciousness across interstellar distances instantaneously without using magic? |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:Kira Lannister wrote:of a copy of a copy
of a copy |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:Kira Lannister wrote:Kira Lannister wrote:of a copy of a copy of a copy
|
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
That is immortality. |
H4rabec Weathers
16
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:There is detailed info about this on Evelopedia, but basically at the moment of death, it scans the state of each neuron, dendrite etc. destroying the source brain in the process, and instantaneously re-creates all that in the clone brain.
If you take an instantaneous snapshot of a process, for example that of consciousness, and instantaneously re-create it somewhere else, it seems like that process would basically be moved somewhere else. So its really copying and not a transfer, thank you :) If that's copying then so is Star Trek transporter technology. Every Star Trek character would be the copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the original. For that matter, each person would be a copy of themselves seven years ago, since all of a human body's cells are replaced every seven years or so. Copying implies making a duplicate, leaving the original intact. When you copy a file on a computer, you have the original and the copy. When you move a file in a computer, you delete the original, transfer the bits, and recreate the file somewhere else on the computer. So unless you believe in some metaphysical "soul", the consciousness is basically the state of the brain and the ongoing process of it working. If you capture that and recreate it elsewhere, that's transferring it.
im tired of this unreal engine ****. when can i play the real tribes again? why would ccp choose such an engine?
******* cheapskates. |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
A common misconception is that it's just copying memories. I would not be a transfer of consciousness, that would just be making a copy of a person who might think they're the original.
Anyway, it does get into philosophical areas, and maybe capsuleers actually wonder about whether they're really themselves or just a copy.
To me, taking an instantaneous snapshot of the brain, destroying the original, and re-creating that snapshot elsewhere is essentially transferring it. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I thought it would be copying when I first heard about the game, but I thought somehow the mind was actually transferred somehow when I saw the Fanfest 2012 trailer when they were talking about the Sleeper brain tech. I wrote some fanfiction about the idea of copying the mind in Dust a long long while ago http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/p/copy-of-psycho-dust-514-based-story.html And how would you propose reliably transferring a human consciousness across interstellar distances instantaneously without using magic?
Quantum entangled pairs? The actual transfer itself isn't what I find to be problematic, its the fact that is a process or action being transferred. I'm glad it's actually just copying, because thats much easier to explain. |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 20:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sake Monster wrote:We are Cylons.
It does feel awful Cylon-y, doesn't it. |
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