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Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
   |
Posted - 2012.09.10 16:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
This post is in response to all the bad rap we snipers get for sitting in the mountains picking people off instead of 'getting objectives' or whatever their reasoning may be.
1. Sniping isn't easy.
Contrary to popular belief, we snipers get hunted down by folks with Assault Rifles (and subsequently better shields & armor) quite frequently. If by chance we even have a pistol or submachine gun, I rarely am able to take down my target. At best, I can sometimes lob a grenade to get then off my tail long enough for me to lose them and get to my next sniping position (or worse yet die).
Then, as if that isn't enough, we've got tanks and LAV roaming the map firing missiles at any wedge they see. Sometimes, the other team will deploy an LAV specifically to hunt me down and take me out. The heck is our pea shooter going to do to a jeep or a tank? Nothing.
If I have to respawn, especially in ambush, I'm sometimes spawned right in the middle of a fire fight. Sure, sometimes I can take one or two down with my rifle.... but it's not easy and rarely turns out well for me. Plus, I have to run all the way to my new position if I even get away alive. In skirmish, the sniper positions could be nearly a kilometer away on foot. LAVs draw too much attention.
2. Sniping takes skill.
I've seen it written that, 'point at target, watch the dot change color, fire, dead', but that only shows the ignorance of folks who don't snipe often or well. In many cases, those of us sniping at great distances have to lead our targets. When you guys are dancing around, jumping in the air (to avoid my bullets), I literally have to predict which way is the most statistically frequent next move you are going to make and fire. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong. Either way, we have to lead most of you... many targets don't just stand around waiting to get shot.
Another thing is stealth. Do people think it's easy to avoid getting killed as a scout? We're primary targets if they find us, and sometimes me especially just because people know I'm a sniper. Knowing how not to be seen, how to keep the little wedge over our head from appearing, is the difference between life or death. Knowing to stay down when a tank is rolling by on the road and keep still is extremely important. Snipers don't spawn into the game looking to brave the front lines and get mowed down with some heavy holding a giant machine gun. Call it cowardice, but we prefer to take our rifles and pick them off so they don't kill you assaults. We have powerful weapons that can take down even some of the best armored infantry, but they're awful at close range. Aiming takes an eternity at close range. Our job is to take them down so you don't have to, or at the very least weaken them. One of our objectives is to stay alive as long as possible to keep them from killing you, and making your assaults on fortified positions somewhat easier.
3. Sniper rifles aren't overpowered.
Some of you just don't wear enough shield and armor upgrades. Frowning Panda, Deejae can usually take a bullet from me, and others. I literally have top notch weapon upgrades, sniper operation 5, weaponry 5, and any other damage upgrade I can get with an Ishukone sniper rifle and still cannot nail every target in one hit. Sometimes there is between 1-50% of armor remaining.
Stop blaming the guns. The good players don't die to me, they usually have enough upgrades to take the bullet and then run to cover while their shields recharge. If you die to a militia rifle that's your fault. Charge sniper rifles pack a serious punch but we have to charge them for like 2 seconds between shots. That's a long time for a player to reach cover. If you're still standing out in a field after hearing a sniper round land either on or around you, maybe you need to rethink what you're doing out there on the field (not having sound turned on is not an excuse).
On the off chance we predict which way you're going to run or jump and fire the shot, and it hits, and you still don't die... the chances of us making that prediction twice in a row is statistically insignificant.
PRO TIP: jumping is a terrible idea because I know exactly where you are going to land. Just an FYI.
4. Stop mixing up good snipers with the bad ones.
Good snipers don't stand on the tippy top of hills, or on top of the spikey rocks in that one map we all know, or out in the middle of the battlefield. Good snipers either tactically cover a squad with a low-damage high-rof tactical sniper rifle on the move or find a sniper nest and try to cover specific areas of the map. Location is key for the latter, and you depend on team mates to buy you time in the former.
Good snipers don't just stand in the same spot thinking no one will ever spot them. Countless times, I move by tiny bits and more times than not a sniper round will miss me. Dive into cover, creep back out, and take them out as they continue firing at dirt like idiots. NEWS FLASH: IT GIVES AWAY YOUR POSITION.
Good snipers learn the map and memorize where objects are on foggy/windy days. If you know there is a crate there, but your toggle changes color, don't fire if you know there is a crate there. Bad snipers just fire blindly at whatever changes the color of their toggle.
5. Squad leader orders.
Ok, so I admit it, I run off to a sniper nest and pick people off the whole match. Why? I'm never given an objective. I can't stand it during a match when some guy is blathering over coms about some bug or upcoming special event. Stay focused and give me a target. Point out a position you want me to focus on. If I don't have a line, I'll find one. I have hiding spots all over every map in the game.
The objective is to hack null cannons you say? I'm not running in there solo to try and hack it myself. I wait for a team mate to come along, when I see him hacking, I try to pick off any incoming soldiers. Sometimes I'm successful! Run out of room. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 16:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Point to a target and tell me to cover it, and I will. I can pick off people on the move, jumping, heck I've sniped people out of dropships before. I'm a very effective sniper, but I'm hardly utilized because no squad targets are laid out.
6. It isn't my fault you don't post someone to figure out where I'm sniping from.
Look, you can very easily figure out where I am by the current game mechanics. Good players do it all the time and hunt me down. Other times, I'm in a game full of chickens running around a battlefield with no idea what they're doing.
Com a buddy or something to look in the hills, around the map. I expose myself every time I fire the gun, but you aren't looking. You just keep doing whatever you're doing because it's someone else's problem until you're dead... and then...
7. Nerf snipers.
Why? Because some of us are exceedingly good at picking you off from a distance? Use cover, don't stand out in the open. Use armor and shield upgrades. Have a lookout for snipers. There's at least a dozen anti sniper things you can do to protect yourselves. The only answer anyone has is 'sniper rifles are too powerful'. Then stop standing out in the open like a turkey.
We're an effective class. Those of us who do it well will continue doing it regardless of any changes. I enjoy sniping, it's why I play. I'd appreciate it if people better understood a sniper's position. It isn't all sunshine and flowers for us either. I will adapt, but it seems the other classes are having a harder time doing so... therefore, CCP will most likely adapt snipers to you. |
Drake Gro'Dar
19
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
You get a like from me. It takes skill to hit a moving target it's amazing to pull the trigger and see someone 500m away go flying like a ragdoll. And on the note of being unseen I have dropsuit command at lvl 5 and use an assault type II for my sniper load out. So any idea on how long that chevron appears over my head? I'm using it for the extra CPU and shields so I can take a hit or two, but if the scout suit hides me faster than I would probably switch |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I hope your clone never reanimates. |
DestrukterDust
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Drake Gro'Dar wrote:You get a like from me. It takes skill to hit a moving target it's amazing to pull the trigger and see someone 500m away go flying like a ragdoll. And on the note of being unseen I have dropsuit command at lvl 5 and use an assault type II for my sniper load out. So any idea on how long that chevron appears over my head? I'm using it for the extra CPU and shields so I can take a hit or two, but if the scout suit hides me faster than I would probably switch
totally pull an STB here but when not in my tank i prefer the scout suit im not exactly how quick it hides you but its damn fast, run around with assault rifle and sub machine its sick, plus your hard to track via speed and within seconds your shields are full again. put a lil armor repper on there and your set. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:I hope your clone never reanimates.
And I hope you stop posting your pretentious s*** all over these forums. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Drake Gro'Dar wrote:You get a like from me. It takes skill to hit a moving target it's amazing to pull the trigger and see someone 500m away go flying like a ragdoll. And on the note of being unseen I have dropsuit command at lvl 5 and use an assault type II for my sniper load out. So any idea on how long that chevron appears over my head? I'm using it for the extra CPU and shields so I can take a hit or two, but if the scout suit hides me faster than I would probably switch
Usually if you fire a shot the chevron will last about 2-4 seconds. It varies and I'm never 100% sure if they are just continuing to fire more rounds or if they only fired once. That's considering it's a scout suit out firing sniper rounds.
As far as assaults go their chevrons stay lit longer regardless, same with logistics and heavies. So if you want to covertly sneak up on a target, I would definitely suggest a scout suit.
This is all my experience watching targets light up on the field and not based on any numbers/stats/whatever. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Van Aewulf wrote:Tony Calif wrote:I hope your clone never reanimates. And I hope you stop posting your pretentious s*** all over these forums.
What a shame neither is going to happen anytime soon. |
Khabarakh Khimbar
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
This post pretty much sums it up. +1 from me, and kudos for proper grammar and spelling.
Snipers are only problematic if people don't deal with them. There are quite a few ways to deal with snipers:
1. The easiest way to deal with a sniper is to snipe them right back. If I can kill your counter-sniper, does that make snipers overpowered? Nope. If he kills me, is it safe to assume that I'm not coming back? Not in the least. It boils down to skill vs. skill in this case, and is actually extremely fun for both snipers if they're evenly matched.
2. Assault rifles will tear up snipers in a heartbeat. It's fairly easy to sneak up on snipers that are toward the edges of the map. If you can get behind cover near the edge of the map, the chances of anyone seeing your are pretty much nill. You will fall my radar, and have free reign to sneak up behind me and light me up. And at that point, you deserve it, since I should have been paying attention to my local area as much as the battlefield. Once again, skill can overcome snipers.
3. LAVs are cheap (or free), fast, and practically un-snipable. The driver is practically immune to snipers (especially DS3 snipers), and if they have a gunner there's really no reason for them to ever stop moving. I think I've managed to shoot a moving gunner once, in an extremely lucky shot. The moment the LAV stops moving, the gunner is dead; consider this a warning LAV drivers. If you get lucky, you can run over a sniper in a bad perch, but they would need to be pretty ******** to not hear/see you coming. The gunner can keep a sniper occupied potentially forever, or until they get in a lucky shot and kill the sniper. Out skill and outmaneuver the sniper and he's dead.
4. Tanks. Lol. I think we all can imagine what a tank can do to a sniper, and vice versa. There is no skill (or honor) involved here.
5. Dropships are probably the safest way to deal with snipers. It's extremely difficult to hit the gunners in a dropship from pretty much any angle, and the height advantage granted by flying pretty much nullifies any cover the sniper may have. No skill required here, just SP.
So the common theme here is skill. Do you have the skills to take out a target that has low health, minimal short range defenses, tunnel vision, and is almost always solo? Or is it easier to just complain about snipers that fill the exact role that they intend to perform and hope for CCP intervention? Use your head. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Van Aewulf wrote:Tony Calif wrote:I hope your clone never reanimates. And I hope you stop posting your pretentious s*** all over these forums. What a shame neither is going to happen anytime soon.
Why can't you just post a decent counter argument instead of insulting people? You do realize how badly you look right now don't you? Or you don't care because you're just a simple troll? That comment was hateful and nothing more because of your own ignorance and lack of understanding, it's fear at its core. You simply don't understand me or my role on the battlefield, so you become angry, hateful, and spiteful.
Just because noobs won't follow you into the fire and do what you tell them because, as we all know, Tony Calif knows best, doesn't mean they can't do things their own way.
In fact, what do you know? I'm not so sure you know anything at all, but rather have grand Ph.D theories to help wow all of us and opines to match the epics.
Why don't you use snipers to your advantage? I walk away from matches with 25 kills and 1 death. I could be utilized, but no one ever takes the time to direct me. So I sit in a hill and fire at turkeys. Why not help instead of insult people... I don't believe you're as experienced as you portray yourself to be, in fact I think you probably get more noobs killed in action from your foolhardy tactics than the noobs would die from otherwise by themselves by the sound of your other posts. |
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Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Oh NOOOO. I look bad on an Internet forum. Omgz. I don't really care. I'm sure I look terrible.
Your right more would die though we'd take the objective. Omgz NOoo KDR dropping. |
Khabarakh Khimbar
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Just ignore him Van Aewulf, this is probably all that he has. |
Le-gen Dairy
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Van, thank you for your post. As someone who also plays the sniper role, I find it funny when people state snipers have it easier. Sure there are things that have been implemented to make this easier (i.e KB/M) but they also have their disadvantages (slow as kitten turn speed).
Snipers are a great thing to have in your squad/corporation, especially since they provide great over watch to the battlefield. My squad has had a great number of successful encounters because they were warned ahead of time. A sniper who knows what he/she is doing is a valuable to any battle. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Khabarakh Khimbar wrote:This post pretty much sums it up. +1 from me, and kudos for proper grammar and spelling.
Snipers are only problematic if people don't deal with them. There are quite a few ways to deal with snipers:
1. The easiest way to deal with a sniper is to snipe them right back. If I can kill your counter-sniper, does that make snipers overpowered? Nope. If he kills me, is it safe to assume that I'm not coming back? Not in the least. It boils down to skill vs. skill in this case, and is actually extremely fun for both snipers if they're evenly matched.
2. Assault rifles will tear up snipers in a heartbeat. It's fairly easy to sneak up on snipers that are toward the edges of the map. If you can get behind cover near the edge of the map, the chances of anyone seeing your are pretty much nill. You will fall my radar, and have free reign to sneak up behind me and light me up. And at that point, you deserve it, since I should have been paying attention to my local area as much as the battlefield. Once again, skill can overcome snipers.
3. LAVs are cheap (or free), fast, and practically un-snipable. The driver is practically immune to snipers (especially DS3 snipers), and if they have a gunner there's really no reason for them to ever stop moving. I think I've managed to shoot a moving gunner once, in an extremely lucky shot. The moment the LAV stops moving, the gunner is dead; consider this a warning LAV drivers. If you get lucky, you can run over a sniper in a bad perch, but they would need to be pretty ******** to not hear/see you coming. The gunner can keep a sniper occupied potentially forever, or until they get in a lucky shot and kill the sniper. Out skill and outmaneuver the sniper and he's dead.
4. Tanks. Lol. I think we all can imagine what a tank can do to a sniper, and vice versa. There is no skill (or honor) involved here.
5. Dropships are probably the safest way to deal with snipers. It's extremely difficult to hit the gunners in a dropship from pretty much any angle, and the height advantage granted by flying pretty much nullifies any cover the sniper may have. No skill required here, just SP.
So the common theme here is skill. Do you have the skills to take out a target that has low health, minimal short range defenses, tunnel vision, and is almost always solo? Or is it easier to just complain about snipers that fill the exact role that they intend to perform and hope for CCP intervention? Use your head.
Quoted for truth and +1 to you as well sir, thank you for an insightful post. I'll just reply to each of your points with support because, frankly, I agree with all of it with some added notes.
1. Is the very best option, and many times if a sniper shoots you first then you know (or should know) where the shot came from if you were in position and looking. Once you respawn, it should only be a matter of a minute before you take him out. A good sniper knows when his nest is blown.
2. I've been killed most frequently by an AR. I constantly check my six visually to make sure no one is creeping up on me. Once you're looking down the scope at a target and focused... it is super easy for someone to sneak up on a sniper.
3. LAVs are an extremely fast way for a squad to deal with a sniper. Everybody hop in the jeep and drive to his location. One low hp sniper with a sub machine gun vs a squad of baddies with ARs and god knows what else? Sniper is done for. I can snipe the gunner rather easily if they slow down. The driver requires a direct headshot and needs to be stopped completely. Long enough *gasp* so that the rest of your squad can capture the objective that the enemy squad was guarding.
4. LOL, I know right? Just hunker down and wait it out.
5. If the drop ship hovers to line up a shot they're rather easy to pick off the gunners, but generally speaking since the dropship is above you the nest cover does almost no good whatsoever. Have to find a roof.
Agreed, I couldn't have said the final paragraph better myself. That is an awesome encapsulation of the plight of the sniper. I'm ok with it, but other players feel as though they need to be nerfed further. Being an effective sniper is all about knowing your role, doing it well, and learning the skill of hitting targets all the way on the other side of the map while moving or jumping. Not just wildly firing an assault rifle at some guy right in front of you.
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Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Oh NOOOO. I look bad on an Internet forum. Omgz. I don't really care. I'm sure I look terrible.
Your right more would die though we'd take the objective. Omgz NOoo KDR dropping.
So you confess to simply being a troll then? I figured as much, and will subsequently stop feeding you. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 18:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Khabarakh Khimbar wrote:Just ignore him Van Aewulf, this is probably all that he has.
Probably gets his kicks out of upsetting people. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 18:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Le-gen Dairy wrote:Van, thank you for your post. As someone who also plays the sniper role, I find it funny when people state snipers have it easier. Sure there are things that have been implemented to make this easier (i.e KB/M) but they also have their disadvantages (slow as kitten turn speed).
Snipers are a great thing to have in your squad/corporation, especially since they provide great over watch to the battlefield. My squad has had a great number of successful encounters because they were warned ahead of time. A sniper who knows what he/she is doing is a valuable to any battle.
Thanks for your support. Reconnaissance, as the name Scout suggests, is perfect for this role. I believe, hopefully, the mouse issue will be fixed to match the functionality of the DS3 controller. As of right now, the two are not equal in their performance.
Agreed with the value of a scout/sniper. Intel is the bottom line to any operation. The best warriors don't simply rush in, guns blazing, without any intel on what they're running into do they? Information is key in battle, and your point highlights that well.
Thanks for the input. |
Onieros Dreamwalker
7
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 18:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
+1
I think we should also address the difference between sniper rifles. I have maxed sniper skills but find I'm only using the charge rifle with damage mods. There is no reason to currently use proto weapons. Snipers are dedicated to their roles and invest large amounts of it to to be effective. Rather than nerfing a class, we should encourage people to counter it effectively; I hate tanks, but-áI -árespect the time, isk and skill needed to spec into armour tanking so I've also learned to deal with this.
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Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 18:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Onieros Dreamwalker wrote:+1
I think we should also address the difference between sniper rifles. I have maxed sniper skills but find I'm only using the charge rifle with damage mods. There is no reason to currently use proto weapons. Snipers are dedicated to their roles and invest large amounts of it to to be effective. Rather than nerfing a class, we should encourage people to counter it effectively; I hate tanks, but-áI -árespect the time, isk and skill needed to spec into armour tanking so I've also learned to deal with this.
Thanks Onieros.
I agree with what you suggest. The difference between rifles is problematic. I use the prototype Ishukone rifle for rapid, high ROF (over the charge rifle), high damage shots. So if I need to take a 2nd shot I can do so quickly and duck back into cover rather than have to wait for another round to charge.
If the charge round hit every time then it would be superior to the Ishukone rifle in every way, but because we still miss shots being able to take that quick 2nd try pays off more for me than the instant kill the charge rifle gives.
I try not to rant too much against tanks. I see the imbalance they cause though, and side with the people who believe changes should be made to help balance them on the battlefield. My problem comes from the number of tanks spawned in relative to the size of the map. An ambush round shouldn't have 3 or 4 enemy tanks rolling around. Their shield and armor tank maybe be out of proportion, but I cannot speak from experience as I don't try to blow up enemy tanks, so I'm not speaking from experience.
You're right about the respect. I try to respect tank drivers for what they bring to the fight and the role they want to fill. To be prejudice against them would be akin to Tony Calif. |
Zane Hollgren
4
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 18:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hello Van,
I have to say you're pretty much spot on when it comes to snipers and LAVs my man. As a big Saga driver myself, my partner in crime and turret man Don "Big Daddy" Bobben finds it very pleasing to shoot those snipers that sit in obvious places like on top of mountains or in the middle of the map, behind some small rock. Granted the smarter ones can be harder to get a clear shot at with that missile launcher so we might have to get up close and personal with them. But honestly most of the time I leave them alone... Smart or not? You tell me.
Now generally I have nothing against snipers even though Don gets taken out by one from time to time. Actually I have to take my hat off to the ones doing good job. Sometimes I even see snipers protecting objectives and that's great. The problem is that you rarely see the benefits of an allied sniper, but it can be annoying to get shot by an enemy one.
As a side note Van. You're doing one heck offa job promoting yourself with this thread and you seem like a stand up guy, a true team player. I'd roll in the same squad with you any day of the week man. Any day of the week.
One final thing. As far as this dude "Tony Calif" running his mouth, hating on these snipers goes... Well Tony there's an old saying and I've got a message for you brother. If you can't stand the heat, stay the heck out of the kitchen, brother! Hide in a tank, hide behind a rock, do whatever you do, man, stay in your comfort zone dude BUT don't come here and start running your mouth because a my man Van has taken your head off too many times!
Best regards,
Zane Hollgren |
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Khabarakh Khimbar
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 18:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zane Hollgren wrote:Hello Van,
I have to say you're pretty much spot on when it comes to snipers and LAVs my man. As a big Saga driver myself, my partner in crime and turret man Don "Big Daddy" Bobben finds it very pleasing to shoot those snipers that sit in obvious places like on top of mountains or in the middle of the map, behind some small rock. Granted the smarter ones can be harder to get a clear shot at with that missile launcher so we might have to get up close and personal with them. But honestly most of the time I leave them alone... Smart or not? You tell me.
Now generally I have nothing against snipers even though Don gets taken out by one from time to time. Actually I have to take my hat off to the ones doing good job. Sometimes I even see snipers protecting objectives and that's great. The problem is that you rarely see the benefits of an allied sniper, but it can be annoying to get shot by an enemy one.
As a side note Van. You're doing one heck offa job promoting yourself with this thread and you seem like a stand up guy, a true team player. I'd roll in the same squad with you any day of the week man. Any day of the week.
One final thing. As far as this dude "Tony Calif" running his mouth, hating on these snipers goes... Well Tony there's an old saying and I've got a message for you brother. If you can't stand the heat, stay the heck out of the kitchen, brother! Hide in a tank, hide behind a rock, do whatever you do, man, stay in your comfort zone dude BUT don't come here and start running your mouth because a my man Van has taken your head off too many times!
Best regards,
Zane Hollgren
I would just like to say that having read this in the voice of Hulk Hogan just made my day. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zane Hollgren wrote:Hello Van,
I have to say you're pretty much spot on when it comes to snipers and LAVs my man. As a big Saga driver myself, my partner in crime and turret man Don "Big Daddy" Bobben finds it very pleasing to shoot those snipers that sit in obvious places like on top of mountains or in the middle of the map, behind some small rock. Granted the smarter ones can be harder to get a clear shot at with that missile launcher so we might have to get up close and personal with them. But honestly most of the time I leave them alone... Smart or not? You tell me.
Now generally I have nothing against snipers even though Don gets taken out by one from time to time. Actually I have to take my hat off to the ones doing good job. Sometimes I even see snipers protecting objectives and that's great. The problem is that you rarely see the benefits of an allied sniper, but it can be annoying to get shot by an enemy one.
As a side note Van. You're doing one heck offa job promoting yourself with this thread and you seem like a stand up guy, a true team player. I'd roll in the same squad with you any day of the week man. Any day of the week.
One final thing. As far as this dude "Tony Calif" running his mouth, hating on these snipers goes... Well Tony there's an old saying and I've got a message for you brother. If you can't stand the heat, stay the heck out of the kitchen, brother! Hide in a tank, hide behind a rock, do whatever you do, man, stay in your comfort zone dude BUT don't come here and start running your mouth because a my man Van has taken your head off too many times!
Best regards,
Zane Hollgren
Thanks for the support Zane. It's a huge distraction for LAV drivers to have to take the time to drive all the way to a sniper position to either take the sniper out, or continue chasing him down for some time in order to take him out. That's an LAV, and possibly 2 or 3 guys chasing down one dude. In some ways I think you're right to not chase down the hard to reach ones, unless they're particularly good or become a squad based objective. If the hard to reach sniper isn't any good, why bother?
It's very true about hard to see the benefits unless you're watching the kill register in the upper right hand corner. I regularly get 10-20 kills in matches without taking but 1 or 2 clones by myself. That's a huge benefit, especially in Ambush mode. In skirmish, those 10-20 guys have to respawn and run back to an objective to defend/take it. That can be a huge set back to an invading force if I take down 2 or 3 of your guys before you even get there.
LOL, Yea well I try to lay low as to not make myself a target... but the problem is that a) i could snipe with any character, it doesn't matter, and b) someone has to stand up for snipers... they get a really bad rap. I might just take you up on the squad invite though!
Yea, he's just got issues. I probably shouldn't feed him but... if no one stands up to guys like him, he just goes on with his rampage unimpeded. Can't stand for that, or at least, will attempt to show him some reason.
Thanks again Zane. It's appreciated. |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Khabarakh Khimbar wrote:
I would just like to say that having read this in the voice of Hulk Hogan just made my day.
LOL! +1 for that. We need a Hulk Hogan around here... I believe we had one on the EVE forums.
That gave me a real LOL. |
Drake Gro'Dar
19
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thanks for the info I'll look into a good scout suit fit. I loved the charged rifle for its power but the ishukone is amazing once I got the hang of it I was dropping guys just as fast and often able to get that second shot to finish off heavies. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
At least it aint fish in a barrel sniping |
Van Aewulf
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Drake Gro'Dar wrote:Thanks for the info I'll look into a good scout suit fit. I loved the charged rifle for its power but the ishukone is amazing once I got the hang of it I was dropping guys just as fast and often able to get that second shot to finish off heavies.
No problem. Happy to give any advice I can. I agree with the Ishukone rifle... I use it exclusively now. I want to try out the Kaalakiota in a squad sometime though. |
Drake Gro'Dar
19
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
I want to work on my close range befor I try the kaalakiota and close squad support. I try to stay back and use the ishukone, but a good fast gun could improve my effectiveness at ranges less than 50m |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 20:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Khabarakh Khimbar wrote:1. The easiest way to deal with a sniper is to snipe them right back.
2. Assault rifles will tear up snipers in a heartbeat.
3. LAVs are cheap (or free), fast, and practically un-snipable.
4. Tanks. Lol. I think we all can imagine what a tank can do to a sniper, and vice versa. There is no skill (or honor) involved here.
5. Dropships are probably the safest way to deal with snipers.
First, I'm going to say that the fact that you felt the need to write this is evidence enough of snipers being out-of-line and overpowered. That we should require special techniques to deal with, when we're sitting there with a minimal investment of ISK and SP, is dumb. Dropships and tanks, they require special tactics because they've paid a lot for a method of fighting, and if they are successfully countered they take a big hit. Even if a sniper is countered somehow, who cares? A single fit is pocket change. You've accomplished nothing but a brief reprieve. Anyway:
Only bad snipers get counter-sniped easily. This is one of the least effective ways to deal with a sniper.
What kind of clown allows someone with an assault rifle to get near them?
LAVs are okay if the sniper is someplace the LAV can get right up to. That's usually hard to do. It's kind of a default move to put your team between you and the targets you're killing. So to get to the sniper, even if he's accessible via a LAV, would require bypassing the infantry and tanks and etc between you and the sniper. Plus, one day LAVs will cost money, so it won't be such a casual thing to get wheels.
If a tank is able to shoot a sniper, the sniper was probably not a threat to begin with.
Dropships are genuinely the best way to deal with snipers. Notice how the best way to deal with someone packing potentially 100% militia gear winds up being a somewhat expensive vehicle that requires a lot of skillpoints and also requires multiple people to use effectively.
Van Aewulf wrote:6. It isn't my fault you don't post someone to figure out where I'm sniping from.
7. Nerf snipers.
No, it's CCP's fault. Infantry have a lot on their plate. There's a lot going on down there. Chastising infantry because they got one-shot by one of the many red chevrons and don't know which of them is the actual threat isn't any better than the sniper being blamed himself. Sniping is too safe, and a large part of that has to do with the difficulty in seeing where the sniper fire is coming from. That's on CCP.
Snipers should be brought in line with other roles in terms of power vs. skill required vs. risk entailed. Right now snipers are up there with tanks in power, only where a tank has hundreds of thousands if not millions of ISK on the line, snipers have minimal ISK. Even a mere 6.5k ISK can buy you a rifle and make you a real danger.
Van Aewulf wrote:1. Sniping isn't easy.
2. Sniping takes skill.
3. Sniper rifles aren't overpowered.
I disagree with that. Once you get a vague idea of how matches tend to go, where decent vantage points are, etc, sniping becomes fairly routine. I don't play infantry much, but when I do, I am always forced to be more on my toes and otherwise cognizant of the situation. Sniping, by contrast, is pretty relaxed.
Sniping takes less skill than most other forms of play, and yet its payoff tends to be much greater. The issue isn't so much that sniping takes no skill, but rather, that the skill vs. power payoff is skewed in favour of power.
Sniper rifles can kill people from across the map, or at relatively close ranges. They're quite powerful. I'm not sure if they're themselves overpowered as a whole, but we certainly have nothing to complain about in this area. Except that the charge rifle is clearly too good to be standard quality, of course. |
RankRancid
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
51
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 21:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Yes CCP sniper is overpowered. There is no sway on the sniper rifle anymore. Half the damage and triple the sway. I mean imagine if all us snipers had to get and mouseboard and key.
I mean the list of people screaming snipers are op would jump to 5 of us. Listen to us please CCP. I hate these damn snipers.
Guys relax a little too,if you read around tony likes taking the ****. 2 of my clan mates are navy men from the south and I must just say their hate for the northeners and wicked sense of humor is awesome.
But seriously nerf all these damn snipers. Make the scout suits hit box twice the size. Make the damage half and add marshmellows. Please bring back last builds horrific sway. Nerf keyboards and mice. You have to listen to us! We don't want to ruin the infantry game. I'm also talking to you damn tanks and dropships. This is called infantry 514!! |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 21:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sarcasm is cool and also super constructive. |
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