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Goliath Raven
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
80
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Posted - 2012.09.05 15:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
Dzark Kill wrote:Goliath Raven wrote:
Again skilled players will always overcome the disadvantage. And lets keep track of the definitions of a player and a character. A player being the living, breathing, skilled, strategizing person, and a character being the skill point bucket avatar in game. In my opinion, skilled, dedicated players or teams thereof, should be the players with the best characters. Best character being determined by skill point total. Is there anything else measure a character by? I do not believe that the first players to join a game, no matter how terrible they are at it, should be rewarded with the highest sp characters in said game for no other reason then they were first.
I don't believe there are "insurmountable elite". I never even used that phrase. Perhapse you are confused by my use of the term Uber which is German for "Above" or "Greater". I don't think there are "insurmountable elite". I simply don't believe there should be a reward for being the first in a game. It's silly to me. This is not a race, it is a contest of skill. Reward the skilled, not the first.
Skill is rewarded in that with skill you get more WP and that means more ISK and SP. Passive SP gives casual gamers (skilled or non-skilled) a chance to not fall too far behind those with time to play 18hrs a day SP are not an I WIN button. SP's still require skill to utilise. You can have all your gunnery skills up to Lvl 5 but if you cannot aim to begin with those points are useless. All defence skills to lvl 5 but if you stand still in the open you still die quick. The "firsts" as you call them are rewarded with as many SP in a day as a Skilled player can make in a match meaning a skilled player will always catch an unskilled casual even with diminishing returns. And this is more related to a common misconception IGÇÖve seen all over this thread. You could start Eve today, Scam, steal, beg, kill or trade for ISK make enough ISK in any way you can think and once you have saved enough you can buy a 150 million SP Character LEGALLY for the Isk you made. The possibilities in Eve are endless. If you were a rich casual you could also spend RL money on PLEX and sell them in game for ISK and use that to buy a high SP character.
Someone was suggesting that the sp only be rewarded based off time, like it is in eve. No sp for active gaming, only passive sp. To be clear, I support the current sp reward system.
Also, the idea of creating your own character so that you can use it simply to replace itself with some other character some other player made is unpleasant to me as well. Kind of a "Forget about taking your own path, buy someone else's so you can be on top!" I won't be using that system if implemented but for those who it works for, whatever. I only see the character and could care less who is controlling it, unless its on my team. I like the sp system as is. Passive sp are rewarded, but active sp dominates. You cant get too far ahead as the longer you play, the more diminished the return of sp is for what you do. Skilled players are rewarded with the most sp. Why change this to eve passive sp system? So us beta folk can have the highest sp characters? I don't think we deserve it for being first. |
Dzark Kill
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2012.09.05 15:49:00 -
[62] - Quote
Goliath Raven wrote:
Someone was suggesting that the sp only be rewarded based off time, like it is in eve. No sp for active gaming, only passive sp. To be clear, I support the current sp reward system.
Also, the idea of creating your own character so that you can use it simply to replace itself with some other character some other player made is unpleasant to me as well. Kind of a "Forget about taking your own path, buy someone else's so you can be on top!" I won't be using that system if implemented but for those who it works for, whatever. I only see the character and could care less who is controlling it, unless its on my team. I like the sp system as is. Passive sp are rewarded, but active sp dominates. You cant get too far ahead as the longer you play, the more diminished the return of sp is for what you do. Skilled players are rewarded with the most sp. Why change this to eve passive sp system? So us beta folk can have the highest sp characters? I don't think we deserve it for being first.
My apologies, it sounded like you were against passive SP all together.
The best thing about CCP/Eve is that there are numerous ways to achieve your goals with as few restrictions as possible. Making the games enjoyable to all. Invested time or money never guarantees victory. The bit about buying a character was just to highlight that a new player can, if inclined to do so, catch up to someone in so who beta in Eve. |
DaReaperPW
Net 7 The Last Brigade
5
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Posted - 2012.09.05 16:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
Again TL:DR
I did wee a few post i'll comment on. As a almost 9 year player of eve, i will say that there really is no Cap to your class. As ccp is always changing and adding new things to cretin jobs. There is also no Class, as again you can change professions on the fly.
If dust is like eve then honestly SP will not matter. In eve, my main has 100M SP (i took a year off and never use implants, ya i know odd right) Anyway, at any time a noobie can kill me in heart beat, no matter how bad ass my ship is, i can still be killed anytime, almost anywhere by anyone. Skills only take you so far. From what i have seen thats the same thing with dust. A sniper can take out a high skilled player with the right hits. You can get a lucky shot with a swarm launcher or an AV nade and blow a tank sky high. Skills in the long run will not matter, and that skill point gap won;t make a lick of difference if you just got pounded on, got out with 10% armor, only to have a noob run up an knife you in the back. The point is, Dust seems like it will be more like eve then say WoW, where your skills points give you an advantage, but just because you have 1billion SP doesn't mean you will survive a noob who has a different weapon or gets the jump on you. |
Goliath Raven
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
80
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Posted - 2012.09.05 16:42:00 -
[64] - Quote
DaReaperPW wrote:Again TL:DR
I did wee a few post i'll comment on. As a almost 9 year player of eve, i will say that there really is no Cap to your class. As ccp is always changing and adding new things to cretin jobs. There is also no Class, as again you can change professions on the fly.
If dust is like eve then honestly SP will not matter. In eve, my main has 100M SP (i took a year off and never use implants, ya i know odd right) Anyway, at any time a noobie can kill me in heart beat, no matter how bad ass my ship is, i can still be killed anytime, almost anywhere by anyone. Skills only take you so far. From what i have seen thats the same thing with dust. A sniper can take out a high skilled player with the right hits. You can get a lucky shot with a swarm launcher or an AV nade and blow a tank sky high. Skills in the long run will not matter, and that skill point gap won;t make a lick of difference if you just got pounded on, got out with 10% armor, only to have a noob run up an knife you in the back. The point is, Dust seems like it will be more like eve then say WoW, where your skills points give you an advantage, but just because you have 1billion SP doesn't mean you will survive a noob who has a different weapon or gets the jump on you.
Agreed, however the conversation is not about if you can overcome or not. I have three main points.
1. More sp = advantage (However small can we agree there is an advantage?)
2. Any advantage should be a reward. (Personal opinion)
3. What should players be rewarded for? I believe that in a game like dust, players should be rewarded for their skill and cooperation. Passive skill points should play at most a minor role in character development.
Actually this is a really in-depth matter, and now that I think about it some more, I'm not ok with the current sp reward system. Its a good start but I do think it should focus more on squad cooperation then on individuals. I might just make a new topic addressing this issue in feedback. |
TEBOW BAGGINS
FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET
549
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Posted - 2012.09.05 18:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
[setting: mansion study/bookshelf with many books in background]
*adjusts reading glasses.. *closes a thick book.. *puff on tobacco pipe..
For one might also say... The casual gamer is against DUST514. |
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