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Penalty for logistics

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Dalton Smithe OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 45	Posted - 2012.08.31 05:58:00 - [1] - Quote Might get some flak for this one but here goes. I have played in matches where the logi does what he/she is supposed to do, revive your teammates, rep the armor...yada yada. However I am still playing in matches where I get killed, there is a triage unit in the area, cleared of enemies, and no one comes to revive me. I end up bleeding out anyways. So for the most part, I refuse to bring in any drop suits that have a substantial investment in them. I propose that logistic players that don't revive teammates when there are no hostiles in the area get a reduction in SP and ISK they receive from a match. Have a radius in which if there is no enemy, it makes it very important to revive your teammate.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.08.31 06:09:00 - [2] - Quote Depends on how you died. If a sniper got you then you'll be right back on the ground, with the medic's lifeless corpse laying next to you.
Dalton Smithe OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 45	Posted - 2012.08.31 06:10:00 - [3] - Quote Timothy Reaper wrote: Depends on how you died. If a sniper got you then you'll be right back on the ground, with the medic's lifeless corpse laying next to you. I knew this argument was coming....lol. Snipers do get me from time to time, but mostly its when I am fighting to take a null cannon or supply depot.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.08.31 06:25:00 - [4] - Quote Don't get me wrong, I've been in the same situation, and it's frustrating. I'm just saying that sometimes they see something you can't. The whole idea behind the clone soldiers is that they are disposable assets. If the medic sees that they're needed elsewhere more than you need them, then I can't really blame them for leaving you behind. Then again, maybe that particular medic just isn't a good team player. But a blanket penalty woudn't be fair to those who are doing their job properly. For the record, I'm not a medic.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.08.31 06:30:00 - [5] - Quote Timothy Reaper wrote: Don't get me wrong, I've been in the same situation, and it's frustrating. I'm just saying that sometimes they see something you can't. The whole idea behind the clone soldiers is that they are disposable assets. If the medic sees that they needed elsewhere more than you need them, then I can't really blame them for leaving you behind. Then again, maybe they are just not good team players. But a blanket penalty woudn't be fair to those who are doing their job properly. For the record, I'm not a medic. Hell, I carry injectors on my Assault suit and use them whenever I can. Not sure why someone would spec into a Logistics suit and not do the same.
TiMeSpLiT--TeR Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 326	Posted - 2012.08.31 06:32:00 - [6] - Quote Some players don't know how to use the med kit. Just saying.
kalahari ilkeston Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2012.08.31 07:00:00 - [7] - Quote Ive tried to play the medic and its rather difficult job. There is also the numerous players who just immediately hit respawn or dont wait long enough. The feedback between the too (wounded and medic) is pretty crap. Come on, Bleeding out, so still alive, so should still be able to look around or have some better indication of medics actions. The callout for medic, while playing medic I have no idea what it is The quick change menu selection needs tweeking Its also a wasted slot as I use armour repair, uplink and resupply more then I use revive. If I ever get a logi suit with four slots I might try it again
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.08.31 07:25:00 - [8] - Quote So if you die like a dummy in the middle of a place where a tank and 10 snipers are all pointing their guns, a nearby medic wisely keeping his head down should be penalized? How about the penalty for not reviving an ally is that you don't get free points, and your team does more poorly because it is a man down in the fight until you get back?
Jebus McKing DUST University Ivy League 24	Posted - 2012.08.31 07:49:00 - [9] - Quote Everytime I tried to revive someone they hit respawn just the moment I reach them... so I switched my injectors for a mobile spawnpoint (forgot what they are called) because noone seems to use those though they really help especially in ambush.
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.08.31 07:52:00 - [10] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Timothy Reaper wrote: Don't get me wrong, I've been in the same situation, and it's frustrating. I'm just saying that sometimes they see something you can't. The whole idea behind the clone soldiers is that they are disposable assets. If the medic sees that they needed elsewhere more than you need them, then I can't really blame them for leaving you behind. Then again, maybe they are just not good team players. But a blanket penalty woudn't be fair to those who are doing their job properly. For the record, I'm not a medic. Hell, I carry injectors on my Assault suit and use them whenever I can. Not sure why someone would spec into a Logistics suit and not do the same. You're the kind of assault guy that, I as a logistics specialist, like. I don't like this expectation that it's entirely up to us to revive, repair, supply ammo, and everything else. Plus, if I go down, it's nice to have someone else to bring me back up. I can't support my team if I'm dead. Since most assault can use nano hives, that means they can use nanite injectors too (same skill). Hell, just bring the militia one. I don't make enough money or SP to wear any suits other than militia ones at this point, so I only get the two slots. I have to pick which two items I bring, and every other suit but prototype has only three slots. Also, early on, when players should specialize with their SP, it's hard to train up remote repair and nanocircuitry. If I knew that a decent number of assaults and scouts carried injectors, I'd focus on getting my remote repair up first. In other words, a logistics person has to pick what gear to bring and which skills to train up for. It's entirely possible for them to specialize in things other than nanite injectors. So just because a logistics guy doesn't revive you, don't assume he's a moron who doesn't care about teamwork--as long as he's doing something else to support the team. If he's just playing as a less effective assault, on the other hand, then by all means assume he's a moron. Of course, most of the time now I'm playing with randoms. Once the game launches, I hopefully will be playing with the same people a lot and we'll plan our loadouts as a squad so that we can support each other and so forth.

Dzark Kill Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.08.31 08:02:00 - [11] - Quote kalahari ilkeston wrote: There is also the numerous players who just immediately hit respawn or dont wait long enough. I think this boils down too free suit tbh. If im running militia i dont see any point in delaying my return to the action waiting for a revive and potentially getting the person doing the reviving killed by the same sniper/tank that got me. I think once people have more skills, are running in better gear and working as a team for corps/allys they will be more willing to wait for the revive.
Lazarus Solo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 66	Posted - 2012.08.31 08:10:00 - [12] - Quote In BF3 and MAG I was used to playing the medic role on the front line, so that's what I try to do in DUST, but you would be surprised at how often the marker to revive someone (it's almost never on your body), is in mid aid or something, making it very difficult to revive someone.
GR1NCH Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 199	Posted - 2012.08.31 08:11:00 - [13] - Quote as someone who has played logi from day one of the E3 build , i can be sympathetic with the op , yes their are those that leave you to bleed . but please don't penalize us logi's that need the revives for are score, the reps and resupply' s . i personally bust a gut every game to keep my team in the action , so why should i be blamed for other peoples faults ! its more sickening to be a medic bleeding out to watch every over medic leave you their to die , maybe its define justice i don't know.
Anatoly Gasputin Doomheim 40	Posted - 2012.08.31 08:59:00 - [14] - Quote Interesting idea dude. But it sucks, hard. Bodies vanish and people just give up fast in the bleed out.
H4rabec Weathers 16	Posted - 2012.08.31 11:46:00 - [15] - Quote I would like the option to cancel the call for help button. sometimes when i'm down i see a danger that i know i shouldnt be exposing the logistics guy to yet i've already hit the button. maybe something togglable in the ui to show if help is being asked for. something i have noticed about a few logistics is that they repair like the doctor would in TF2 and making themselves targets due the the visual effects of the repair beam. imo logistics shouldnt be afraid to help with taking the enemy out but their suits are not designed for front line battle, it all dipends on the situation though. sometimes they are better staying back in a fall to position and getting assaults/heavies back into battle sooner. players need to learn to retreat and be healed too it's beter than dieing and waiting for revive. i dont agree with any kind of penalty as logistics is an already underplayed part of the game. everyone wants to be the hero with all the kills and i partly blame CCP for encouraging this.
Nahtlog 17	Posted - 2012.08.31 22:48:00 - [16] - Quote Dalton Smithe wrote: Might get some flak for this one but here goes. I have played in matches where the logi does what he/she is supposed to do, revive your teammates, rep the armor...yada yada. However I am still playing in matches where I get killed, there is a triage unit in the area, cleared of enemies, and no one comes to revive me. I end up bleeding out anyways. So for the most part, I refuse to bring in any drop suits that have a substantial investment in them. I propose that logistic players that don't revive teammates when there are no hostiles in the area get a reduction in SP and ISK they receive from a match. Have a radius in which if there is no enemy, it makes it very important to revive your teammate. I certainly cannot say that I like this. Coming from a Logibro's standpoint, I do indeed try my best to try and revive my fellow teammates but in some cases I can't. This is due to multiple instances: 1. Area is still hostile 2. Sniper nearby 3. Too far away, resulting in death and lost suit. 4. Revive location has derped and I sometimes have to jump in the air in the perfect spot to hit a revive. I can only jump about 2 times in the suit without sprinting. 5. Repairing/repping an alive teammate to keep them longer on the field. I can only heal so fast with a Standard Triage module. 6. Downed player says " 'Eff this, I'm just going to respawn." If this penalty happened, then it shouldn't be just for all Logibros, but for anyone carrying a Nanite injector on their persons, which isn't fair to the player(s) when they just can't get to you in time or other instances.
Dariuz Krul Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2012.08.31 23:10:00 - [17] - Quote As someone who is going 100% logi this time around, what they said is quite applicable. I dump 30k on each logi suit I field, and running into a wall of enemies to revive the guys who charged in guns blazing with no backup isn't very smart.. Which I see alot. To expect me to die repeatedly to pad someones K\D ratio while they clearly run past objectives in search of new kills isn't my idea of fun... How about we penalize the guy who gets 12+ kills in one match and doesn't take 1 objective..
Tbone322 D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 124	Posted - 2012.08.31 23:24:00 - [18] - Quote Most of the time I see the Logi looking frantically for my body trying to revive me but my body is like 3m off. Logi's are trying but I still don't think the revive mechanics are very good.
kalahari ilkeston Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2012.08.31 23:39:00 - [19] - Quote H4rabec Weathers wrote: players need to learn to retreat and be healed too it's beter than dieing and waiting for revive. i dont agree with any kind of penalty as logistics is an already underplayed part of the game. everyone wants to be the hero with all the kills and i partly blame CCP for encouraging this. +1 ccp needs to encourage people to work as a team not hope they work as a team Pointing these things out in the war room and in quarters might help Having a different color or symbol for logi would help Also logi should be squad leader by default as they arent normally on front line and have the time to issue orders
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.31 23:42:00 - [20] - Quote Terrible idea.

TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.01 08:34:00 - [21] - Quote I'm blind to the color blue. I only see green. "Dont heal that random guys, not worth it... He overextended himself"
Talneck Balder British Federation Sleepless Knights Alliance 21	Posted - 2012.09.17 08:32:00 - [22] - Quote I dont like this idea at all , medics have a bad enough time of it already and now you want to penalise them ! Im going to do another post about reviving , but it seams to me that the revive spot is based on the point of kill not the body final resting and this causes us medics no end of issues and needs resolving. People die all the time but why should I get penalised for not helping a fallen team mate when they rush out into the open and get snipped or hit by a tank ., im here to help and assist ! not rush out and join him in death Ill do all i can to keep my team going but at the same time im not going to put myself at high risk esp if theres others around who need my help esp in death match games were revival can play a serious role. There have been points made and im not going to restate , but oftain medics get overlooked or undervalued and its appreciated when folks do say thanks. As for medics reviving militia fits if your fighting to hold a position , a quick revive and heal can be a dam sight quicker and more usefull than a respawn and can help keep the momentum of an assult going.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.09.17 09:15:00 - [23] - Quote I've been frustrated by this myself, especially when playing Logi it's maddening to have a hive on deck, a repper ready to go and a nano injector of my own... see the notification for help and not have it come That having been said there are a few things to consider This issue: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=36929&find=unread The Bug that causes several attempts to be required for a rev even when the correct spot is located. Remember that not only Logi carry injectors and often times that help you're waiting for is from the Assault guy standing over you exchanging fire with the enemy (or dashing past you towards the next firefight). I agree that teamplay is important and encouraging it is valuable but rather than punish the LogiBros in the game let's fix the bugs first and see where things stand. After all end of the day when Dust goes live the good support peeps will have Squads and Crops who want them and those who don't play the role won't be recruited or sought. That's a pretty big consequence right there and it doesn't require CCP to write a single line of code. My 0.02 ISK Cross EDIT: Talneck Balder beat me to it regarding that linked content, either way the point is well made.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.09.17 09:17:00 - [24] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: I'm blind to the color blue. I only see green. "Dont heal that random guys, not worth it... He overextended himself" You know this is the first time I've been able to get any info on why some are blue and some are green. Thank you! Knowing that helps quite a bit.
q00t Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 5	Posted - 2012.09.17 10:33:00 - [25] - Quote Dzark Kill wrote: kalahari ilkeston wrote: There is also the numerous players who just immediately hit respawn or dont wait long enough. I think this boils down too free suit tbh. If im running militia i dont see any point in delaying my return to the action waiting for a revive and potentially getting the person doing the reviving killed by the same sniper/tank that got me. I think once people have more skills, are running in better gear and working as a team for corps/allys they will be more willing to wait for the revive. Everytime you respawn the available number of clones drops, taking your team one step closer to a loss. Tbone322 wrote: Most of the time I see the Logi looking frantically for my body trying to revive me but my body is like 3m off. Logi's are trying but I still don't think the revive mechanics are very good. That is the major problem.
xxBIG DIRTYxx 19	Posted - 2012.09.17 10:58:00 - [26] - Quote Dariuz Krul wrote: As someone who is going 100% logi this time around, what they said is quite applicable. I dump 30k on each logi suit I field, and running into a wall of enemies to revive the guys who charged in guns blazing with no backup isn't very smart.. Which I see alot. To expect me to die repeatedly to pad someones K\D ratio while they clearly run past objectives in search of new kills isn't my idea of fun... How about we penalize the guy who gets 12+ kills in one match and doesn't take 1 objective.. Well said, bro.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1592	Posted - 2012.09.17 11:19:00 - [27] - Quote Your problem is that you are still playing with randoms in some fashion even with a squad that you formed before joining a match. This causes unit cohesion to be borked. Wait until the next build. We will have player-run corporations available where you can coordinate effectively with every player in your entire team NOT be a random.
Average Joe81 57	Posted - 2012.09.17 11:25:00 - [28] - Quote Dalton Smithe wrote: Might get some flak for this one but here goes. I have played in matches where the logi does what he/she is supposed to do, revive your teammates, rep the armor...yada yada. However I am still playing in matches where I get killed, there is a triage unit in the area, cleared of enemies, and no one comes to revive me. I end up bleeding out anyways. So for the most part, I refuse to bring in any drop suits that have a substantial investment in them. I propose that logistic players that don't revive teammates when there are no hostiles in the area get a reduction in SP and ISK they receive from a match. Have a radius in which if there is no enemy, it makes it very important to revive your teammate. sorry that was probably me. i was waiting for my tank.
Uber Dragonlord Valkarish 29	Posted - 2012.09.17 11:51:00 - [29] - Quote Medic here! I think there should be a healed/death stat and an ISK saved/lost stat next to the k/d stat at the end of battle so the nanite injector carriers and repair tool carriers can be properly appreciated for their contributions. Also I think you should receive WP per second while healing/repairing instead of just every once in a while. I only occasionally get to shoot enemies because I'm constantly whipping out the injector and repair tool to patch up my team, so these would be a great boon for people like me. Since I'm rarely ever in a squad that wants to stick together, once they disperse I pretty much just drift across the battlefield in search of a teammate or a squad in trouble, swoop in and do some healing, and if they are in trouble I hang around. If not I move on in search of another injured soldier or squad or tank or resupply unit. I'm basically a wandering medic unless my squad actually works as a squad. I love being in a squad though, drifting off alone without an objective makes you an easy target for snipers and anyone else who can sneak up on you. The repair system is broken horriBAD, I've circled an ally and got myself shot in the process many times trying to revive them and the dumb game won't let me. And I've been the one downed and have seen medics shot down trying to revive me. As for Logi users, not all of them carry nanite injectors. I use two suits (Militia because I currently don't make enough to upgrade), one with a droplink and a nanoswarm thing whatever-they're-called (I only use this suit at the beginning to set a good droplink on the field for the team to spawn at), and then my main suit which I use for reviving and repairs. If you are downed before I get a droplink down and before I can switch suits, you're s.o.l.. If you ARE carrying a nanite injector, I don't think punishment is the right recourse. Perhaps a reward for healing units not in your squad?
Virex Staz Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 53	Posted - 2012.09.17 12:48:00 - [30] - Quote The whole revive procedure needs some proper love, tbh. 1. The "revive me" indicators should have a distance cue of some sort 2. Medics need to be able to acknowledge revive requests so the downed player knows help's on the way 3. Both parties need to be able to notify the other that its too hot so abandon the attempt 4. Revive points clearly need to be where the body is, always (assuming this is still broken) 5. Revive/Death ratio should be published with Kill/Death ratio 6. An indicator of distance to nearest friendly logistics might help prevent players from rushing off and leaving their logi behind For example, when you are holding a nanite injector the "aim down scope" button could become a "list fallen team-mates" button. Press this and you get a list of players needing assistance, sorted by distance. You scroll up/down and acknowledge, at which point the list disappears and you get an indicator like the one used when a squad leader sets a target, with a distance cue. The downed player gets an indicator that his request has been ack'd, with the same distance cue. The logi might get another indicator showing (roughly) how long till the guy bleeds out. Acknowledged revive requests should be marked on the revive-request lists as well to help prevent multiple logis going for the same revive.



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