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Mouse and Keyboard - fix it or don't include it :(

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Haggisman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.08.29 07:22:00 - [1] - Quote As a long time PC gamer, unfortunately relegated to the ranks of consolite due to various financial commitments (babies are expensive!!), imagine my excitement when I noticed Dust supported mouse & keyboard! Barely able to contain my emotions, I dusted off (pardon the pun! ) my trusty G500 and Saitek Eclipse and plugged them into the PS3. "Lets go set up my controls" I thought to myself, navigating to the M&KB section of the Neocon. "Oh. I can't... well, maybe they're adding that later, I guess I can figure out what the keys do by trial and error" After much experimentation, I managed to join a battle, and prepared to rain fiery death upon my foes. Or not. "Mouse seems a bit slow, I'll just turn up the sensitivity." 5 minutes later, and having resorted to using the pad because the keyboard controls are extremely unintuitive, I see that the sensitivity is already maxed. "Right, well I'll just turn it up on the mouse then" tries "huh... that hasn't really made much difference." Long story short, M&KB is great for sniping, however I couldn't even turn quick enough to track someone running across my screen about 100m away. It also takes 3-4 full lengths of my (larger than normal) mousepad to turn 360 degrees. This really can't be right with a 5700 dpi mouse, and I'm really hoping that CCP decide to do something about this - while I appreciate it's a console game, and pad is of course the standard control method, if you're going to add M&KB support, please please please make it work; there's no point adding it as a feature if it's only going to be tagged on (yes I realise it's a beta and they may have plans to fix it, but the more feedback they get, the more likely they are to fix things, right?) Add fully customisable keymappings, and increase the mouse sensitivity (or at least the sensitivity range so those of us who like our mice twitchy can set it so.) I ended up going back to the pad in frustration, and I hate playing shooters with a pad!
Blowtorch McHurrypants 4	Posted - 2012.08.29 07:32:00 - [2] - Quote Just as an FYI... CCP has imposed a certain turning speed to the mouse so as to level the playing field between console controllers and M&KB. Mice will always be able to turn faster given the opportunity (it's a physical real-life movement) versus pushing an extreme on a controller joystick and turning at the set speed. If you are arguing that the imposed turning speed on M&KB is too slow that's fine - just realize they are doing it purposefully to balance with the console turn speeds. The sluggish turn speed of your mouse will never go away, but you may provide feedback that it is slower than the controller. If its the exact same turn speed, however, you have no legs to stand on.
Haggisman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.08.29 08:45:00 - [3] - Quote Blowtorch McHurrypants wrote: If you are arguing that the imposed turning speed on M&KB is too slow that's fine - just realize they are doing it purposefully to balance with the console turn speeds. cry Why implement a feature and then gimp it to the point it's virtually useless? If they're going to implement M&KB, then there's no point in sticking it in just for the sake of it. If they're doing it to try appeal to the PC gamers (like myself), having it borked in such a way isn't going to help at all, they'd be better either removing it completely, or making it usable.
Kleanur Guy SyNergy Gaming 154	Posted - 2012.08.29 08:49:00 - [4] - Quote I have a solution. Use the PS3 controller. Or you could play a PC game instead? :P Edit: I see you haven't mentioned that you understand that there are turn limits on PS3 controllers too, specificated to dropsuits. And I see you haven't mentioned that you know it's to stop M/KB being 'OP'. And I see you haven't mentioned that you know it's to stop people do 360fakieeznoscopedropshotz.
0pt1mu5Pr1m3 5ER3NITY INC Apocalypse Now. 4	Posted - 2012.08.29 08:53:00 - [5] - Quote As Blowtorch McHurrypants pointed out, the mouse is only going to move as fast as a controller as any faster would be unfair, to standard controller players... Op
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 197	Posted - 2012.08.29 08:56:00 - [6] - Quote Kleanur Guy wrote: I have a solution. Use the PS3 controller. Or you could play a PC game instead? :P Well your helpful... Write a petition/report detailing your findings, CCP is good enough to reply eventually(TM). I dont use the mouse n keyboard but it may be that theyre not balanced yet.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.08.29 08:58:00 - [7] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNsrK6P9QvI
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.08.29 09:05:00 - [8] - Quote I use KB/M I am usually the highest or second highest killer in any game i play, have you tried turning mouse smoothing off? i noticed that gimps the mouse speed, if that doesn't fix it i'd say the problem is holding onto the mouse.
Haggisman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.08.29 09:09:00 - [9] - Quote Kleanur Guy wrote: I have a solution. Use the PS3 controller. Or you could play a PC game instead? :P Edit: I see you haven't mentioned that you understand that there are turn limits on PS3 controllers too, specificated to dropsuits. And I see you haven't mentioned that you know it's to stop M/KB being 'OP'. And I see you haven't mentioned that you know it's to stop people do 360fakieeznoscopedropshotz. I guess I should thank you for the... er... "helpful" reply If you read my OP you'll notice that I say I hate playing FPS on pads, it's like doing brain surgery wearing boxing gloves! I've also stated that I realise pad is the "intended" method of control... I didn't realise there were turn limits related to different dropsuits, so thanks for letting me know, I guess your post wasn't completely pointless. 0pt1mu5Pr1m3 wrote: As Blowtorch McHurrypants pointed out, the mouse is only going to move as fast as a controller as any faster would be unfair, to standard controller players... Op Of course having M&KB support implemented properly is going to be unfair to standard pad players, it's vastly superior. In the same way as using the move controller is unfair to standard pad players, or using a wheel/pedals in driving games is unfair to standard pad players, or using a controller with rapid-fire buttons in beat-em ups is unfair to standard pad players. What I don't get is why add it at all if they're just going to nerf it to oblivion. Simple solution, separate servers for m&kb and pad players. Beld Errmon wrote: I use KB/M I am usually the highest or second highest killer in any game i play, have you tried turning mouse smoothing off? i noticed that gimps the mouse speed, if that doesn't fix it i'd say the problem is holding onto the mouse. Was this sniping or up close and personal? It was fine sniping, I racked up plenty of kills, as the movement required is minimal, as soon as I got into a firefight however, people were running rings round me and it was impossible to turn fast enough to track them (and this was heavies as well, not just scouts) - that makes it a bit useless since I prefer to play triage and its difficult to rez someone from the top of a mountain half a mile away ;) Of course I guess there's another easy solution, not playing ;) which is a shame as I was actually looking forward to this game
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.08.29 09:25:00 - [10] - Quote I pretty much always fight in an assault suit, while i can nail someone better at medium and long range i have little trouble dealing with people up close, I may not turn quite as fast as a controller but i make up for that in accurate fire. Do you have the mouse smoothing option turned on? if you do turn it off and you'll notice a huge difference, my mouse sensitivity is set to 21.

Haggisman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.08.29 09:32:00 - [11] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: I pretty much always fight in an assault suit, while i can nail someone better at medium and long range i have little trouble dealing with people up close, I may not turn quite as fast as a controller but i make up for that in accurate fire. Do you have the mouse smoothing option turned on? if you do turn it off and you'll notice a huge difference, my mouse sensitivity is set to 21. I tried with it both off and on, off was vastly better! I tried sensitivity at both 0 and 100 and to be honest there didn't seem to be a noticeable difference!
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.08.29 09:38:00 - [12] - Quote I've heard the controllers settings can have some effect on the mouse as well, dunno how good the source on that was but perhaps try leaving the mouse at a certain level and adjusting the controller and see if theres any difference. Does your mouse have sensitivity buttons on it? you've already tried adjusting those?
Haggisman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.08.29 09:44:00 - [13] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: I've heard the controllers settings can have some effect on the mouse as well, dunno how good the source on that was but perhaps try leaving the mouse at a certain level and adjusting the controller and see if theres any difference. Does your mouse have sensitivity buttons on it? you've already tried adjusting those? Yeah it does, have whacked it right up to max, which again made it slightly better. I'll have a play with the controller settings tonight :)
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.08.29 10:19:00 - [14] - Quote other then these things i dunno what to suggest honestly, but it also could be that we have totally different views on what is fast, before kb/m I was doing very well using the controller set to 003, while other people are using 080+
Dzark Kill Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.08.29 10:25:00 - [15] - Quote Haggisman wrote: Simple solution, separate servers for m&kb and pad players. There is only one server. Eve is the only MMO to house all player on 1 single shard. Dust is being migrated to the Eve server. Your solution is flawed. Nothing more.
Haggisman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.08.29 10:34:00 - [16] - Quote Dzark Kill wrote: Haggisman wrote: Simple solution, separate servers for m&kb and pad players. There is only one server. Eve is the only MMO to house all player on 1 single shard. Dust is being migrated to the Eve server. Your solution is flawed. Nothing more. Sorry, let me rephrase that - separate battles for m&kb or pad players.
La Fortune Terranauts 36	Posted - 2012.08.29 10:46:00 - [17] - Quote Are you sure your mouse is actually set to that DPI? I found that mine was set to 1800 by default and had to turn it on to 3800 DPI via the software. Wearing a scout suit I usually don't have a problem in CQC with regards to turn speed.
Haggisman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.08.29 10:54:00 - [18] - Quote La Fortune wrote: Are you sure your mouse is actually set to that DPI? I found that mine was set to 1800 by default and had to turn it on to 3800 DPI via the software. Wearing a scout suit I usually don't have a problem in CQC with regards to turn speed. Heh, just checked the software, and the default highest setting is 2000. Doh! There's me assuming putting it to the max setting on the mouse would actually put it to the max DPI.... well, you know what they say about assumption!! I'll try putting it right up when I get in from work and see if it makes a difference, cheers for that :)
Ferocitan 22	Posted - 2012.08.29 10:54:00 - [19] - Quote Does this mean we have to have M/KB and Pad Corperations ingame? making future Corps unable to battle over land because they use different control methods? At the moment Pad is the hardest thing to use, with MKB "and move?" have better accuracy. The differances is minor at the moment making everyone equally UNHAPPY. Allways the best diplomatic solution.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 437	Posted - 2012.08.29 11:02:00 - [20] - Quote Haggisman wrote: Sorry, let me rephrase that - separate battles for m&kb or pad players. Cause that's not even more flawed? "Sorry FC, but only 10 of us had M&KB so we got roflstomped by the enemy who had 100. So there was no way of saving the planet due to all the matches lost by default despite having the same number of actual players."

Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.29 11:55:00 - [21] - Quote No sympathy. Most of the ps3 population didnt want KBM because of the way it makes everyone snipers. Go check how many "omg snipers" threads there were before this build. Exactly none. Within hours of kb/m going live, we had threads about being constantly sniped. Sorry but this is the main reason for KBM. Show me some good KBM players. Where are they? Seriously yo... Where are the elite of shooters? I want to fight them... Btw us DS3 players can't change the sensitivity (0-100 makes no difference for us either). Oh and keyboard controls let you drive tanks faster round corners.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.08.29 12:01:00 - [22] - Quote sry if your dreams of finally pwning inferior ds3 players have turned into nightmares
Haggisman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.08.29 15:13:00 - [23] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: No sympathy. Most of the ps3 population didnt want KBM because of the way it makes everyone snipers. Strangely enough that's never really been a problem with PC shooters. Tony Calif wrote: Go check how many "omg snipers" threads there were before this build. Exactly none. Within hours of kb/m going live, we had threads about being constantly sniped. Sorry but this is the main reason for KBM. Show me some good KBM players. Where are they? Seriously yo... Where are the elite of shooters? I want to fight them... The majority are probably not playing this because of how terrible the M&KB controls are up close. I already mentioned about how it's vast improvement over pad when sniping because of the minimal movement required, more than likely that's why the increase in snipers over and above other classes. Anyway, no M&KB support means simply another game for me not to waste money on, and for that reason I'm out. Enjoy your autoaim ham-fisted pads
Cpl Quartz 127	Posted - 2012.08.29 15:41:00 - [24] - Quote play with kb/m and although i will snipe in most of the different games i play i wouldnt call myself a sniper. Boring sat alone in the middle of nowhere and the initial gun sway puts me of fast sniping with a squad in the heat of battle. There has to be balance between thoses stupid thumbpad things (allthough i have found them to be good at gt5) and kb/m. same for up close especially when you try and turn to melee but you know what they have prolly set it at the same turn speed as the pad so all is fair. Dont miss the first melee shot or dont get that close up.
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.08.29 15:52:00 - [25] - Quote Haggisman wrote: Anyway, no M&KB support means simply another game for me not to waste money on, and for that reason I'm out. Enjoy your autoaim ham-fisted pads 1. DUST is free ... no money wasted. 2. M&KB ARE supported ... but it is in development, sensitivity isn't working on either pad or mouse and turn speeds have been restricted for each suit type. CCP are including mouse and keyboard and move support as an OPTION, not an advantage, so they are working on balancing them to not give an edge to either move, mouse or pad users. My keyboard and mouse are working fine, I have basically the same turn speed as I do on the pad with the same suit. If yours isn't working properly don't come posting in General Discussion crying about it, go to Technical Support & Bugs or better still the Bug Reporting tool and post a description of the problem you're having and tell them exactly what hardware you're using. You people don't seem to realise you're here to TEST a game in development. If you find something that's not working, report it, find a way to work around it if you can ( ie use your pad) and wait for it to be fixed.
Haggisman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.08.29 16:01:00 - [26] - Quote I didn't come crying about it, I came posting my experiences about what I felt was an issue and my suggestions on how to address the issue - you know, the way beta testers are supposed to? I would have thought you may have realised that since you've made such an effort to emphasise the fact that it is a TEST environment. Thankfully not everyone is as aggressive as the majority of members of this community appear to be, and I've actually had some useful suggestions and feedback regarding my issues, however give the attitude that seems to be very evident here, I'm not sure it's a community I want to be a part of as unfortunately people being ***** isn't something that can be bug-fixed or beta-tested out. That being said, it is still summer holidays, so give it a couple of weeks and there may be a higher proportion of people willing to act like adults :)
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.08.29 16:02:00 - [27] - Quote There are a lot of factors regarding the proliferation of snipers in this build. For one, snipers are no longer mostly useless. The base sway seems to have been reduced and the hit detection is much better. I'm still using a dual shock and I will occasionally snipe in this build, while I avoided it like the plague last time. (Generally I only snipe when there are other snipers around; they make the best victims by holding still for me.) Also, some of the new maps are very sniper friendly. I'm not saying that Kb&M hasn't had an effect on the number of snipers (no way to tell for sure), but there would be more out there in this build anyway.
Jimbo Boilstaff Algintal Core Gallente Federation 83	Posted - 2012.08.29 16:02:00 - [28] - Quote Haggisman wrote: Dzark Kill wrote: Haggisman wrote: Simple solution, separate servers for m&kb and pad players. There is only one server. Eve is the only MMO to house all player on 1 single shard. Dust is being migrated to the Eve server. Your solution is flawed. Nothing more. Sorry, let me rephrase that - separate battles for m&kb or pad players. Devs have already suggested that this will be the case (press release when mentioning kb/m in the first place,,, i imagine since we're in beta and the kb/m doesnt appear to be OP like people feared then this hasnt happened yet) personally i use DS3 and dont care what other people do,,, i want everyone in together,,,, and if you need a kb/m to let you move like someone out of DCUO then fair enough,,, makes it even more the sweeter when i send a bullet through your skull
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.08.29 16:23:00 - [29] - Quote Haggisman wrote: I didn't come crying about it, I came posting my experiences about what I felt was an issue and my suggestions on how to address the issue - you know, the way beta testers are supposed to? I would have thought you may have realised that since you've made such an effort to emphasise the fact that it is a TEST environment. Thankfully not everyone is as aggressive as the majority of members of this community appear to be, and I've actually had some useful suggestions and feedback regarding my issues, however give the attitude that seems to be very evident here, I'm not sure it's a community I want to be a part of as unfortunately people being ***** isn't something that can be bug-fixed or beta-tested out. That being said, it is still summer holidays, so give it a couple of weeks and there may be a higher proportion of people willing to act like adults :) Using wording like "please please please" and as you say, the general tone of most of these posts, I just figured you were another one "rage quitting" out of "frustration" and coming in General Discussion to whine about it. Re-reading your op it's not as whiney as it seemed the first read, but I still think it would be more useful in Technical Support if you want something done about it, or better still searching for related threads and adding your experiences to other peoples.
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.08.30 00:04:00 - [30] - Quote lol snipers are easy meat if you can be bothered to go get them, being picked off by one is no worse then being picked off mid battle by someone behind you. biggest butt kicking i've had since the new build has come from a player called death dealer who uses a controller, very few ppl can beat me 1v1 on the australian server but he managed it nonstop with the poor disadvantaged controller, its all about the skills not the tools.



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