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Antonius Dacinci
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 09:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
To be honest they are actually under powered due to their unabillity to survive tank shells or dish out enough damage to take them on one on one but i just assumed that was because they are millitia quality xD |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
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Posted - 2012.08.25 09:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:I don't think you understand how kinetic energy works. Even inert metal rounds moving at those sorts of speeds would create a large shockwave (effectively an explosion) when hitting a target. All that kinetic energy has to go somewhere. I mean, watch this video of the US Navy's experimental railgun. It looks like a rocket, but that's just an inert piece of metal fired at ludicrous speed. I agree with your second point though. People are still thinking in "FPS match" K/D terms. "if this weapon gets more K/D than whatever I'm using, it's overpowered." People need to start thinking in "warfare" terms. Remember that installations will be placable by commanders and will probably be rather pricy. Right now they're just sitting on the map for free. I understand how kinetic energy works, and yes I am aware that the impact would create a shock wave. I said splash damage is to high, not that they should get rid of it. The current rail guns are doing splash damage akin the the missile turrets, and that just doesn't make sense. The shock wave created by the railgun should cause more of a knock back effect, rather than damaging effect - though it should certainly retain some damage.
Edit: copied from comments on the video, perhaps why it looks like a missile. I'm not educated on the topic, so this may or may not be accurate.
"the friction between the air and the object is so intense that it causesn++ air to turn to plasma."
in reply:
"that and/orn++ there is such high ampage that the electrons felt like pushing whatever atoms that were in there way from completing the circuit and the electrical resistence heated the air to the point of free electron exchange." |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
143
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Posted - 2012.08.25 09:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jarre Jardox wrote:If u get shot once by a rail gun I can understand being frustrated. But if u get shot a second and more times I say its ur own fault for not paying attention to ur location in relation to the turret. Wise up and stay out of Los honestly its not tht hard. I would have to agree with this |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.08.25 09:23:00 -
[34] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Does anyone here, happen to know how a rail gun works? You're daft if you think they shouldn't have epic range. Splash damage however, is way to much, considering that they are kinetic weapons. Unless of course they happen to be loaded with explosive rounds, in which case the splash damage is fine.
Turret installations are supposed to **** you, thats their job. If they sucked, they wouldn't be a useful defense mechanism would they? If you want to kill one, work as a team, take it on from more than one direction. It can't shoot you all at the same time. It's under hybrid weapons so the hybrid could be with explosive canisters?
Hybrid is an EVE weapon classification meaning that it's an energy/projectile hybrid, like blasters and rail guns. The other classifications are energy (lasers) and projectile (chemically propelled rounds like we have today--autocannons and artillery). Some artillery rounds actually have small nuclear warheads in them in EVE, but I doubt this will be the case in DUST.
Energy weapons require no ammo, but use a lot of capacitor (stored energy), hybrid use ammo and a medium amount of capacitor, and projectile use ammo and no capacitor.
Then there are missiles, which are their own things and work differently.
Here is the full list of EVE weaponry. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 09:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Does anyone here, happen to know how a rail gun works? You're daft if you think they shouldn't have epic range. Splash damage however, is way to much, considering that they are kinetic weapons. Unless of course they happen to be loaded with explosive rounds, in which case the splash damage is fine.
Turret installations are supposed to **** you, thats their job. If they sucked, they wouldn't be a useful defense mechanism would they? If you want to kill one, work as a team, take it on from more than one direction. It can't shoot you all at the same time. It's under hybrid weapons so the hybrid could be with explosive canisters? Hybrid is an EVE weapon classification meaning that it's an energy/projectile hybrid, like blasters and rail guns. The other classifications are energy (lasers) and projectile (chemically propelled rounds like we have today--autocannons and artillery). Some artillery rounds actually have small nuclear warheads in them in EVE, but I doubt this will be the case in DUST. Energy weapons require no ammo, but use a lot of capacitor (stored energy), hybrid use ammo and a medium amount of capacitor, and projectile use ammo and no capacitor. Then there are missiles, which are their own things and work differently. Here is the full list of EVE weaponry.
I didn't ask for an encyclopedia (but i liked reading it) and the exposive canister could consist of a compress form of energy similar to what the blaster shoots |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 09:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:I don't think you understand how kinetic energy works. Even inert metal rounds moving at those sorts of speeds would create a large shockwave (effectively an explosion) when hitting a target. All that kinetic energy has to go somewhere. I mean, watch this video of the US Navy's experimental railgun. It looks like a rocket, but that's just an inert piece of metal fired at ludicrous speed. I agree with your second point though. People are still thinking in "FPS match" K/D terms. "if this weapon gets more K/D than whatever I'm using, it's overpowered." People need to start thinking in "warfare" terms. Remember that installations will be placable by commanders and will probably be rather pricy. Right now they're just sitting on the map for free. I understand how kinetic energy works, and yes I am aware that the impact would create a shock wave. I said splash damage is to high, not that they should get rid of it. The current rail guns are doing splash damage akin the the missile turrets, and that just doesn't make sense. The shock wave created by the railgun should cause more of a knock back effect, rather than damaging effect - though it should certainly retain some damage.
All an explosion is is a shockwave (created by a chemical reaction) + possibly shrapnel. My point is that to the person getting hit, it doesn't matter if it is a shockwave from a chemical reaction or a shockwave from a piece of metal moving at super high speeds.
As to whether one should have a larger radius or whatever, that's really more of a balance issue that I'm sure CCP will figure out. |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 09:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:All an explosion is is a shockwave (created by a chemical reaction) + possibly shrapnel. My point is that to the person getting hit, it doesn't matter if it is a shockwave from a chemical reaction or a shockwave from a piece of metal moving at super high speeds.
As to whether one should have a larger radius or whatever, that's really more of a balance issue that I'm sure CCP will figure out. Except an explosion involves heat (correct me if I'm wrong).
Also, do you know the barrel length of that US Military railgun? That has a large effect on the speed of the projectile. |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.08.25 09:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Does anyone here, happen to know how a rail gun works? You're daft if you think they shouldn't have epic range. Splash damage however, is way to much, considering that they are kinetic weapons. Unless of course they happen to be loaded with explosive rounds, in which case the splash damage is fine.
Turret installations are supposed to **** you, thats their job. If they sucked, they wouldn't be a useful defense mechanism would they? If you want to kill one, work as a team, take it on from more than one direction. It can't shoot you all at the same time. It's under hybrid weapons so the hybrid could be with explosive canisters? Hybrid is an EVE weapon classification meaning that it's an energy/projectile hybrid, like blasters and rail guns. The other classifications are energy (lasers) and projectile (chemically propelled rounds like we have today--autocannons and artillery). Some artillery rounds actually have small nuclear warheads in them in EVE, but I doubt this will be the case in DUST. Energy weapons require no ammo, but use a lot of capacitor (stored energy), hybrid use ammo and a medium amount of capacitor, and projectile use ammo and no capacitor. Then there are missiles, which are their own things and work differently. Here is the full list of EVE weaponry. I didn't ask for an encyclopedia (but i liked reading it) and the exposive canister could consist of a compress form of energy similar to what the blaster shoots
Well, that's the thing--railguns and blasters shoot the same ammo in EVE. They're mostly solid metal with the exception of antimatter, which is antimatter magnetically suspended in a casing. They're made of things like iron, iridium, tungsten, stuff like that. Railguns shoot them as is, whereas blasters turn them into bolts of plasma and then fire them. The rounds themselves aren't explosive.
While I'm at it, here is the list of all ammo.
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Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.08.25 09:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:All an explosion is is a shockwave (created by a chemical reaction) + possibly shrapnel. My point is that to the person getting hit, it doesn't matter if it is a shockwave from a chemical reaction or a shockwave from a piece of metal moving at super high speeds.
As to whether one should have a larger radius or whatever, that's really more of a balance issue that I'm sure CCP will figure out. Except an explosion involves heat (correct me if I'm wrong).
As do railguns and blasters. Did you see the video? I saw lots of heat (plasma). In space maybe not, since there's no atmosphere, though.
The US Navy railgun is:
Quote:capable of hurling 40-pound projectiles at speeds of 4,500 mph to 5,600 mph over 50 to 100 miles (7,240 to 9,010 kilometers per hour over 80 to 161 kilometers). |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 09:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:All an explosion is is a shockwave (created by a chemical reaction) + possibly shrapnel. My point is that to the person getting hit, it doesn't matter if it is a shockwave from a chemical reaction or a shockwave from a piece of metal moving at super high speeds.
As to whether one should have a larger radius or whatever, that's really more of a balance issue that I'm sure CCP will figure out. Except an explosion involves heat (correct me if I'm wrong). As do railguns and blasters. Did you see the video? I saw lots of heat (plasma). In space maybe not, since there's no atmosphere, though. Alright, you got me there. I'm tired, not thinking through my thoughts 100%.
Although, with a bomb, the explosion is forced outward in every direction from the center-most point of the explosion. Where as with a railgun, the round is very hot, but it is being forced in only one direction towards its target. When it impacts the ground/target, it isn't going to suddenly start moving left-right-forwards-backwards-up-down-inside-and-out, it's going to keep going the direction it's going until it's momentum and inertia are overpowered by the ground. |
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Shiro Mokuzan
220
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 09:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:All an explosion is is a shockwave (created by a chemical reaction) + possibly shrapnel. My point is that to the person getting hit, it doesn't matter if it is a shockwave from a chemical reaction or a shockwave from a piece of metal moving at super high speeds.
As to whether one should have a larger radius or whatever, that's really more of a balance issue that I'm sure CCP will figure out. Except an explosion involves heat (correct me if I'm wrong). As do railguns and blasters. Did you see the video? I saw lots of heat (plasma). In space maybe not, since there's no atmosphere, though. Alright, you got me there. I'm tired, not thinking through my thoughts 100%. Although, with a bomb, the explosion is forced outward in every direction from the center-most point of the explosion. Where as with a railgun, the round is very hot, but it is being forced in only one direction towards its target. When it impacts the ground/target, it isn't going to suddenly start moving left-right-forwards-backwards-up-down-inside-and-out, it's going to keep going the direction it's going until it's momentum and inertia are overpowered by the ground.
The energy is going to be released outward also, but maybe not as equally in all directions as an explosive. The record Navy railgun projectile carried 32 megajoules of energy. A 1-ton vehicle moving at 100 mph has about 1 megajoule.
1 kilogram of TNT is equivalent to 4.184 megajoules in terms of energy released. So a current-day railgun projectile impact would be roughly equivalent to 7.6 kilograms of TNT exploding. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 10:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Its easy to take down installations. Just blindfire a swarm into their direction after all you have a somewhat look alike aiming device when pressing L1. |
Jean-Henri
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 10:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
I have no beef with electro-magnetically accelerated mass be it irradiated, explosive, or as otherwise.
My beef is that when you fire swarms at Turrets, they do not actually hit it..... they go for the lowest point... as someone up thread pointed out.... effectively they expend their energy upon the mound of dirt that the turret is built onto.
Turrets are invulnerable to swarm missiles while this bug persists.
no? or should we keep talking about how this weapon system or that weapon system works in this way or that way?
the issue is not the delivery system of the target, not the damage it does, nor its effective range.... the issue is that currently the two most likely infantry based weapons, able to take out a turret, either have lousy range, or borked targeting systems/programing.
imho |
Khun-Al
135
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 11:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
Yes they are great. Best KDR: 24/0. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 12:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:All an explosion is is a shockwave (created by a chemical reaction) + possibly shrapnel. My point is that to the person getting hit, it doesn't matter if it is a shockwave from a chemical reaction or a shockwave from a piece of metal moving at super high speeds.
As to whether one should have a larger radius or whatever, that's really more of a balance issue that I'm sure CCP will figure out. Except an explosion involves heat (correct me if I'm wrong). As do railguns and blasters. Did you see the video? I saw lots of heat (plasma). In space maybe not, since there's no atmosphere, though. The US Navy railgun is: Quote:capable of hurling 40-pound projectiles at speeds of 4,500 mph to 5,600 mph over 50 to 100 miles (7,240 to 9,010 kilometers per hour over 80 to 161 kilometers).
This brings up an interesting point though - It would be really, really cool if railgun splash damage was reduced on planets with thinner atmospheres, eventually being made zero on an airless moon. And maybe splash-buffed but range-nerfed on thicker atmosphere planets.
I suppose range could be altered based on planetary gravity too - equally cool would be if a railgun could achieve the velocity to put a sabot into orbit on an airless moon. That way the railgun operator could shoot himself, or shoot the oppposite direction and still hit his target an orbital period later =) |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
256
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 14:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
From 0-50 or 100 meters the splash damage should be significant to provide close range anti-infantry capability for the user. From 100-max meters the splash damage should be extremely low for anti-vehicle usage, not lolhereisapanelboom3kills. |
STB-LURCHASAURUS EV
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
173
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 19:04:00 -
[47] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I just wanted to thank whoever decided to make these things into massive sniper rifles, props to you. Coupled with the forge guns **** poor range and swarm launchers that target the ground, I just had the pleasure of watching someone go 19/0 in one of these stupid things
Bravo.
Bravo.
your not going to like commanders calling in installations then. |
Carilito
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
345
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 19:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
These arent too bad if you keep something in between you and it but I like it that way.
I know this is a game but war isnt always fair. |
TEBOW BAGGINS
FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET
549
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 20:37:00 -
[49] - Quote
if your solo and running across an open field you will die.. get used to it or do a mass infantry charge across open ground.. helps to be on a mic tho and with non randoms |
Flux Raeder
WarRavens
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 21:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
What really pisses me off is the fact that when someone is in one of these things half the time you can;t even get to them, is that the system now or is there some bug here? I remember a few games ago I got shot by someone in one of these turrets so I respawned and snuck up on it thinking I was gonna make an easy kill, only to see that even though someone was firing the thing, there body was somehow IN the machine |
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Qn1f3
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
18
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Posted - 2012.08.28 05:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Flux Raeder wrote:What really pisses me off is the fact that when someone is in one of these things half the time you can;t even get to them, is that the system now or is there some bug here? I remember a few games ago I got shot by someone in one of these turrets so I respawned and snuck up on it thinking I was gonna make an easy kill, only to see that even though someone was firing the thing, there body was somehow IN the machine
I've been in the same situation multiple times on one of the maps, where it's placed near CP A. Snuck around and trying to kill the unsuspecting turret pilot. Instead getting a load in the neck when there is none to be found.
Is this installation remotely controlled(nasty)? Or is it just a bug?
My main priority on that map has become to take it down, cause it bothers the hell out of me! And the pilot always nets +20/0 KDR. Everyone else seems to care a lot less about it running around happily getting shot cross the map. |
Gyrnius
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 05:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jarre Jardox wrote:If u get shot once by a rail gun I can understand being frustrated. But if u get shot a second and more times I say its ur own fault for not paying attention to ur location in relation to the turret. Wise up and stay out of Los honestly its not tht hard.
"dodging" through the terrain in a heavy suit still gets me popped by these things. I've started just blowing them up as soon as I can. Forge gun has terrible range, but I can get close enough to do it without leaving myself too open too frequently. |
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