DUST Search - Dear People Complaining About Tanks...

Icy Tiger wrote:

You do not have the right to assume that tanks are Overpowered unless you yourself have used them. I used to think that tanks were extremely overpowered as well, a while ago. So I started skilling up a Surya, already had the best armor and shield skills, and got the best Railgun turret. Finding a good fit alone cost me a lot. I went from 15 000 000 ISK to barely above 4 000 000.

Currently, my Surya fit costs around 186 000 ISK. I can use a max of 2 per round on average.

And I can tell you from experience that AV equipment hurts. Bad. Proto Swarms are nearly impossible to get away from, Forge Guns are a bit easier, but still hurt. 3 AV soldiers can take me out if they have prototype equipment. Another thing is the horrible handling, dropship threats, remote explosives, SMGs that can take out my shields (900 hp) in seconds and lots of bullshit.

Then there are enemy tanks. I can easily take out lower tier tanks without breaking a sweat, enemy Surya's are pretty difficult but still manageabld, and Sagaris', I can only take out in a 1 v 1, without enemy Swarms and Forges. This all depends on the enemy fitting however, and I have died about 7-8 times to enemy tanks whule having taken out 15+.

Tanks are not overpowered, they are just efficient, and a teams worst nigtmare when getting redlined. That is the real problem, the fact that home spawns are open to the enemy, and a team cannot even get out of a base.

I don't know where I'm going with this, but I just want to get the point across that tanks are not overpowered.

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Icy Tiger 496	Posted - 2012.08.12 17:06:00 - [1] - Quote You do not have the right to assume that tanks are Overpowered unless you yourself have used them. I used to think that tanks were extremely overpowered as well, a while ago. So I started skilling up a Surya, already had the best armor and shield skills, and got the best Railgun turret. Finding a good fit alone cost me a lot. I went from 15 000 000 ISK to barely above 4 000 000. Currently, my Surya fit costs around 186 000 ISK. I can use a max of 2 per round on average. And I can tell you from experience that AV equipment hurts. Bad. Proto Swarms are nearly impossible to get away from, Forge Guns are a bit easier, but still hurt. 3 AV soldiers can take me out if they have prototype equipment. Another thing is the horrible handling, dropship threats, remote explosives, SMGs that can take out my shields (900 hp) in seconds and lots of bullshit. Then there are enemy tanks. I can easily take out lower tier tanks without breaking a sweat, enemy Surya's are pretty difficult but still manageabld, and Sagaris', I can only take out in a 1 v 1, without enemy Swarms and Forges. This all depends on the enemy fitting however, and I have died about 7-8 times to enemy tanks whule having taken out 15+. Tanks are not overpowered, they are just efficient, and a teams worst nigtmare when getting redlined. That is the real problem, the fact that home spawns are open to the enemy, and a team cannot even get out of a base. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I just want to get the point across that tanks are not overpowered.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.08.12 17:09:00 - [2] - Quote hey look, another tank balance thread. I agree you can't rant about them until you've properly played them to see their weaknesses.
Iceyburnz 316	Posted - 2012.08.12 17:14:00 - [3] - Quote Wow another great post about the tank issue. Im glad to see people are actually discussing stuff constructively now, rather than just throwing out cheap put downs. I have to say you argument has swayed me somewhat back to neutral on the tanks issue. I think tanks haven't been nerfed because CCP knows something we don't. I suspect CCP has been through this issue during internal testing. In one of the fanfest video Atli said "While everyone in the studio was training sniper I was training for this badboy gestures at marauder picture It was fun owning everyone" the dev he was with said something like "Yes but not fun for everyone else". Thats suggests to me that the big picture yet eludes us. "PROOF OR STFU"
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.12 17:22:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah I saw your tank get blown up to smitherens the other day it was painful to watch our teir 1 tanks pepper up your aft end and the proto swarmer on the roof launched a volley at you and never made it to under the table top where I was waiting for you to cross my cross hairs.
Jimbo Boilstaff Algintal Core Gallente Federation 83	Posted - 2012.08.12 17:24:00 - [5] - Quote It seems to me there's just way too many of them at the moment.... Removing the free vehicles will solve a lot of this.... Increasing the cost of them will also solve this Also,,, I was under the impression we're earning way more skill points than we will in the 'proper' game??? This would suggest it's gonna take a lot longer to skill up on a tank. Remember we have soooooo many options not yet available to invest in,,,, that the current situation is a result of many people getting crazy amounts of sp (purposefully for testing purposes) and not having the full set of options to use it with so its all been put into tanks. If, when the full game comes out, someone decides to invest all their SP and ISK into a tank build, while using only the default suits for combat the rest of the time...... then surely they deserve to have a strong tank sometimes??? Think calls for nerfing are too soon until we see the full SP/ISK balance...... But, man is it frustrating getting caught on the spawn point..... Just gotta laugh at it really, that issue is an obvious balance issue that'll be resolved,,,,, but it seems more to do with map design than tanks being particularly OP'd??
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.12 17:27:00 - [6] - Quote Well good news is the SP will be at normal rates next build.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.08.12 17:53:00 - [7] - Quote Tanks are not OP against 12 morons who are as dumb as a lamp post
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2012.08.12 18:14:00 - [8] - Quote ive taken you out twice in one match. (you took me out 3 times but honestly i was out of forge rounds, so you only sped up your demise) plus 6 kills to 3 deaths is a good trade off to any roll on the field. So, i will agree as a proto forge gunner tanks are not in need of a nerf. in fact i would say BUFF them once they allow me to roll in here with a practiced team of my own. im certain that i can kill a tank at 100 yds with 4 people in under 4 seconds with the forge cannon equiped. 6 to 10 with the swarm/mass driver the math check's to support that being not only possible but fairly easy, with all of the above.
fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.08.12 18:24:00 - [9] - Quote Not op but when you put all your points into assault and assault guns you dont have many options but to run away when they come at you. Yes I got an option to go heavy but with no points in it whats the use so the only option is to change the way I play to be able to compete so no thanks I'll give it a miss
Ad ski IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 209	Posted - 2012.08.12 18:35:00 - [10] - Quote I've only just started skilling up tanks and I dread to think how much SP I've used so far. Tanks are supposed to be intimidating, if you nerf them then what's the point? If SP gets reduced and the price of tanks go up you will see less of them out there,anyone who has one then will deserve it.

Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.12 18:39:00 - [11] - Quote Iceyburnz wrote: Wow another great post about the tank issue. Im glad to see people are actually discussing stuff constructively now, rather than just throwing out cheap put downs. I have to say you argument has swayed me somewhat back to neutral on the tanks issue. I think tanks haven't been nerfed because CCP knows something we don't. I suspect CCP has been through this issue during internal testing. In one of the fanfest video Atli said "While everyone in the studio was training sniper I was training for this badboy gestures at marauder picture It was fun owning everyone" the dev he was with said something like "Yes but not fun for everyone else". Thats suggests to me that the big picture yet eludes us. "PROOF OR STFU" what an awesome post! i havent seen that and it shows CCP basically refuting most of the tank are op complaints lol. then the immediately next part is a text saying cooperate with squads for a combined role....... beautiful CCP +1
lDocHollidayl Imperfects Negative-Feedback 171	Posted - 2012.08.12 18:41:00 - [12] - Quote It is too early to nerf much of anything. When mechanics still need love...Hit detection, map design/spawn camping, grouping,mic crossover. I must say thanks for "fixing" the swarm from last build. We all agree the RE needed some attention. But now the swarm is pretty glitchy with its lock on system and they are clunky fliers. They are overpowered for spawn camping. But not if the price is increased and groups enabled. There is one indisputable fact. A fresh player can not kill a good tanker. A fresh group of 12 can not kill a good tank team. But ... A fresh player will not be killing a proto assault much. But a fresh group of 12 can always kill a proto assault. Tanks are what they are. They are only balanced for pros vs pros. Noobs break the equation.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.08.12 18:50:00 - [13] - Quote the infinate ammo is obviously a problem. i dont really care much tho, because: 1. i dont have any SP in tanks. 2. If i'm being shot at by one I take cover and have enough HP to take an indirect hit or 2. 3. If it's bugging me that bad I call my dropship and hope for a decent gunner.. If the tank has advanced blasters instead of misiles that might be a problem for my dropship, but it then makes the tank easier for the guys n the ground to deal with if it has advanced blasters, if you're getting killed by advanced blasters as an infantry you either suck or the gunner is skilled. By that time the tank is moving on to a more promising target. If you're getting hit directly by a missle, it was because the gunner was skilled enough or you're not running perpendicuar to the tank, if you run at or away from a tank that has you in it's sight it's your own stupidity for making yourself an easy target. There will still be but hurt tho even with limited ammo if another player is resupplying the tank. but that's the reward they get for playing as a team if your team is not packing any nano hives then your SL users are worthless. it's that teams fault for not fitting/dropping nanos only one map actually caters to tanks- plateau.. if you're getting tankraped on biomass you got serious issues i've been raped/redlined by tanks occasionally on plateaus but it doesnt happen every game. just go on to the next match that's going to probably be different anyway. not every match is going to specifically cater to you despite all your "skillz" at gun game
Gelan Corbaine BetaMax. 103	Posted - 2012.08.12 20:45:00 - [14] - Quote fenrir storm wrote: Not op but when you put all your points into assault and assault guns you dont have many options but to run away when they come at you. Yes I got an option to go heavy but with no points in it whats the use so the only option is to change the way I play to be able to compete so no thanks I'll give it a miss Stupid frikking boards ..... oh well here is the tldr version Your job is not killing Tanks but the guys killing your tanks and AV infantry . Do your bit everything helps .
Sabastian Malone Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:09:00 - [15] - Quote Tanks are always unbalanced in my opinion, at best they are simutaniously overpowered and underpowered. But in my opinion if there's an option to be really powerfull or to not be really powerfull ( that option being wether to get in a tank or not), then the game cant be balanced well.
LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS 74	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:22:00 - [16] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: You do not have the right to assume that tanks are Overpowered unless you yourself have used them. I used to think that tanks were extremely overpowered as well, a while ago. So I started skilling up a Surya, already had the best armor and shield skills, and got the best Railgun turret. Finding a good fit alone cost me a lot. I went from 15 000 000 ISK to barely above 4 000 000. Currently, my Surya fit costs around 186 000 ISK. I can use a max of 2 per round on average. And I can tell you from experience that AV equipment hurts. Bad. Proto Swarms are nearly impossible to get away from, Forge Guns are a bit easier, but still hurt. 3 AV soldiers can take me out if they have prototype equipment. Another thing is the horrible handling, dropship threats, remote explosives, SMGs that can take out my shields (900 hp) in seconds and lots of bullshit. Then there are enemy tanks. I can easily take out lower tier tanks without breaking a sweat, enemy Surya's are pretty difficult but still manageabld, and Sagaris', I can only take out in a 1 v 1, without enemy Swarms and Forges. This all depends on the enemy fitting however, and I have died about 7-8 times to enemy tanks whule having taken out 15+. Tanks are not overpowered, they are just efficient, and a teams worst nigtmare when getting redlined. That is the real problem, the fact that home spawns are open to the enemy, and a team cannot even get out of a base. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I just want to get the point across that tanks are not overpowered. 3 AV guys can take your tank down...... 3 to 4 tanks on the battlefield at 1 time.... 12 people on 1 side... how many people does that leave to secure objectives? Do the math
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:24:00 - [17] - Quote Trained em up last week and just got my best score of 54:0 . All skill I tell you and man was it hard to train for took a whole weekend. Tanks need a major buff been saying it all along.
Bhal Jhor Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 23	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:25:00 - [18] - Quote I think the patch note stating that they're increasing the HP boost on all armor plates is a tacit acknowledgement armor tanking isn't up to par with shield tanking. I think that factor needs to be taken into account when talking balance. Also swarm launchers seem to hit armor a lot harder than shields, and forge guns seem to hit shields a lot harder than armor. It might be because there's EVE style EM/Thermal/Kinetic/Explosive damage types and variable resists behind the numbers shown in the DUST UI. It would be nice if a GM or developer could chime in on that.
Gelan Corbaine BetaMax. 103	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:28:00 - [19] - Quote LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS wrote: 3 AV guys can take your tank down...... 3 to 4 tanks on the battlefield at 1 time.... 12 people on 1 side... how many people does that leave to secure objectives? Do the math It debate-ably may take 3 AV guys to take down a tank ........ but will definitely only take one advanced one to drive it away . Vehicle area denial does not always mean kill .
LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS 74	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:42:00 - [20] - Quote Gelan Corbaine wrote: LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS wrote: 3 AV guys can take your tank down...... 3 to 4 tanks on the battlefield at 1 time.... 12 people on 1 side... how many people does that leave to secure objectives? Do the math It debate-ably may take 3 AV guys to take down a tank ........ but will definitely only take one advanced one to drive it away . Vehicle area denial does not always mean kill . Not really .. he said it himself and from experiance we all have forge guns ranked up completly and it actually does take 3

Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:45:00 - [21] - Quote it doesnt always take 3-4 guys to take down a tank. i pop plenty of marauders by myself with my heavy fit, so i simply dont see where everyone is coming from with their inability to pop a tank. again, why is it a guy who has a good aim with a good fitting no dying considered a god when a driver surviving in his tank is always considered a cheating scrub? there might actually be a good driver or two out there...
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:47:00 - [22] - Quote why dont you guys actually look at my thread with a nice video of CCP talking about tanks.....itll answer all your complaints in about a minute. i understand if you dont like debating with actual CCP vids tho.
LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS 74	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:49:00 - [23] - Quote LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS wrote: Gelan Corbaine wrote: LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS wrote: 3 AV guys can take your tank down...... 3 to 4 tanks on the battlefield at 1 time.... 12 people on 1 side... how many people does that leave to secure objectives? Do the math It debate-ably may take 3 AV guys to take down a tank ........ but will definitely only take one advanced one to drive it away . Vehicle area denial does not always mean kill . Not really .. he said it himself and from experiance we all have forge guns ranked up completly and it actually does take 3 All warriors have ishukone forges.. maxed proficiancy, maxed heavy ammo capacity, exct..... 3 guys to take down a tank is accurate.. (excluding militia)
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:53:00 - [24] - Quote im sorry you have such a tough time taking out tanks. i dont find it to be such a problem honestly. again, if you still choose to debate this after not viewing the CCP vid thats on my thread, then your willingly arguing against facts/CCP and thats not going to get you anywhere. They clearly state tanks are hard to pop because they are tanks. ewar will change all that tho. CCP basically put a huge "working as intended" sign on tanks.
Gelan Corbaine BetaMax. 103	Posted - 2012.08.13 01:58:00 - [25] - Quote LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS wrote: Not really .. he said it himself and from experiance we all have forge guns ranked up completly and it actually does take 3] All warriors have ishukone forges.. maxed proficiancy, maxed heavy ammo capacity, exct..... 3 guys to take down a tank is accurate.. (excluding militia) Not accord to MY experience ... I've soloed well known tanker Sags before . And again it only takes one guy to drive off a tank. Is the tank no longer around the objective ? Then problem solved .
LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS 74	Posted - 2012.08.13 02:07:00 - [26] - Quote Gelan Corbaine wrote: LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS wrote: Not really .. he said it himself and from experiance we all have forge guns ranked up completly and it actually does take 3] All warriors have ishukone forges.. maxed proficiancy, maxed heavy ammo capacity, exct..... 3 guys to take down a tank is accurate.. (excluding militia) Not accord to MY experience ... I've soloed well known tanker Sags before . And again it only takes one guy to drive off a tank. Is the tank no longer around the objective ? Then problem solved . Ok answer me this... whats the point in having a forge gun if your gonna just (scaring them off) You dont make sh!t for ISK or SP that way.That would be a waist of my time and an estimated 6 million sp i spent on my forge gun .
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.13 02:08:00 - [27] - Quote because its not about your feelings, its about helping your team win.
LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS 74	Posted - 2012.08.13 02:10:00 - [28] - Quote LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS wrote: Gelan Corbaine wrote: LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS wrote: Not really .. he said it himself and from experiance we all have forge guns ranked up completly and it actually does take 3] All warriors have ishukone forges.. maxed proficiancy, maxed heavy ammo capacity, exct..... 3 guys to take down a tank is accurate.. (excluding militia) Not accord to MY experience ... I've soloed well known tanker Sags before . And again it only takes one guy to drive off a tank. Is the tank no longer around the objective ? Then problem solved . Ok answer me this... whats the point in having a forge gun if your gonna just (scaring them off) You dont make sh!t for ISK or SP that way.That would be a waist of my time and an estimated 6 million sp i spent on my forge gun . Not only that but you still have to deal with 2 to 3 other tanks after you (scare one from the objective)
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.13 02:11:00 - [29] - Quote then at that point why doesnt your team have any ground armor? btw, that doesnt make tanks OP. are dropships OP because one team has air superiority?
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.13 02:14:00 - [30] - Quote you have to adapt to what the enemy team has. If they have 3-4 tanks, simply getting a few guys to go AV will be tough. You also have the ability to call in armor. If your AV guys are competent tho you wouldnt even have given the enemy a chance to bring in that many tanks in the first place. Its the same thing with redlining....the redlined team played like **** in the first place. gonna get fixed tho. edit: cant wait for grouping.



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