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Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
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Posted - 2012.07.21 20:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
This build is re.tar.ded |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 20:15:00 -
[32] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:Snipers are useless in this game.
Snipers are useless in any game where they don't support a coordinated team.
If you get that, a good sniper can be a valuable asset. |
Brahma El Indio
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
171
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Posted - 2012.07.21 20:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
I got into this one game with a German guy, he had a mic, says spawn up the back, I got this mad tank, with a lot of skills dropped in it.......
Whole game we just drove around destroying everything and I mean everything , he went 34/0 and I as the gunner went 12/0 but the whole game was a farce.....
The German guy would say "there's one, shoot him. Dead. Off to heaven he goes.next" and that's the phrase that was repeated the whole game....
Sure, got a whole bunch of sp and isk for the effort but it was ridiculously easy.....
By the way, the guy might not have been German, maybe just European, but from my understanding of accent, sounded german |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 20:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
Defo German. No one does efficient like the Germans. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1452
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Posted - 2012.07.21 20:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:xprotoman23 wrote:Snipers are useless in this game. Snipers are useless in any game where they don't support a coordinated team. If you get that, a good sniper can be a valuable asset.
if a sniper can't average 25-35 kills per game without a coordinated team then they aren't a sniper. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 20:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:xprotoman23 wrote:Snipers are useless in this game. Snipers are useless in any game where they don't support a coordinated team. If you get that, a good sniper can be a valuable asset. if a sniper can't average 25-35 kills per game without a coordinated team then they aren't a sniper.
If you aren't working with your team, you aren't a good sniper regardless of kill count.
Snipers can be valuable assets to their team with 10 - 20 kills. |
Shrator Dram'Dur
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2012.07.21 20:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
I'm a dedicated logistics user. The logi suit is FAR from worthless. The militia one dies pretty quick, but I've skilled up and use the Advanced logi suit. In addition, I use all tank to it (three shield extenders, two armor plates and an armor repper) with a duvolle assault rifle, but most importantly, the Triage repair gun. I run around and repair people, typically i stick around a Minigun heavy that knows what he's doing.
I treat it like a Medic/Heavy combo from TF2. He gets shot, soaks up damage, i heal him, he kills the baddies, and we continue. He got some 34 kills that match, I only got 5, but because of all the repairing I did I got 100k SP.
With the tank on that Advanced logi suit I also could soak up some serious damage before I really had to start running.
The Logi suits are far from broken. You cannot use them like assault (and honestly they're not meant to be). |
Zeran Haggai
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
196
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 21:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
JAG ONE wrote:English.. I totally agree with you. I mentioned the problem on IRC to CCP Wolfman and he seemed to be pretty clueless about the problem. I asked him to look at the vehicle spamage in games now, and he said "are there too many vehicles"?
I think Wolfman trolled you tbh 
Tony Calif wrote:I have tech2 heavy suit forge gun and AV nade set up too, problem is the other assault users seem to be trash, don't drop me hives, and should probably skill for swarms & SMG's as they require least skill to use (for infantry).
Lack of support is probably one of the biggest issues i have as a Forge Heavy right now. I could do my job a whole lot better if i had a couple other infantry to stick with me, drop ammo/armor nano's, and keep the other infantry off my back while i'm blowing up vehicles. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 21:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Sniper is useless, i have yet to see one good sniper in this game
Logi is crap atm, pointless trying to heal ppl atm and drop uplinks i can fit on my AR with tweeking but the suit itself is fairly weak and with so many tanks and heavys about you dont last
LAVs are not that specialized tbh, milita is good enough to get from A to B
Right now on this map its either tanks or AV and maybe AR when ther isnt enough tanks and dropships to blot out the sun Translation: I don't know how to play sniper, so it can't be done. Logi is crap in part because of incomplete support mechanics, but also partly because I'm bad at coordinating with my team to make myself useful. LAVs suck because I suck with them. Right now there's an imbalance in favour of vehicles and anti-vehicle builds, and I refuse to adapt my playstyle by preferentially targeting AV players who WILL be prevalent on the other team and making life easier for the vehicles my team provides. I'm also too proud of my skills in one area of the game to be willing to side-skill into another role. Ther is no good snipers Logi is crap because they can barely survive for 5mins and i can do logi in an assault with a better tank so i survive longer LAV is a 4x4 which isnt hard to use and ther is no specialization with an LAV Rest is gibberish while he obv didnt read the thread
No good snipers? Then can you care to explain how I managed to land 13 sniper kills in one match in Skirmish? No, I'm not a spawn camper. Though it's a legitimate strategy, I prefer a challenge instead.
For Logi, wait for the next build then. Their shield HP will be on par with that of an Assault, they will hack faster than other suits, and if you have a nanite injector fitted you will be able to see who needs reviving while other players will be forced into a 8-second bleedout phase before being able to chose to suicide or wait another 30 seconds.
Yes there is specialization. You can fit it for speed. You can also fit it as a mobile CRU. You can also fit it to tank most standard swarm launchers (as long at your ride isn't militia). It's also an effective battering ram.
Ok, given that Garrette sounded quite blunt and upfront with you right there, at least my points are still valid.
I suck with vehicles, so I tried assault. I suck with assaults, so I tried logi. Logi needs more work (but will be better in the next build this August) so I tried sniper. Guess what?
Advanced Scout Dropsuit
Prototype Ishrukon Sniper Rifle <----just recently trained to this
2x Basic Damage Modifiers
2x Catalysts for sprint speed
I. Fracking. Own.
Some assault dudes no doubt complain that I'm a lame camper who doesn't have the balls to face the up close and personal. But here is the thing. I'm not the one running around blindly with guns ablaze in the open in the middle of a war zone.
I also coordinate. If I have a cooperative team that uses the mic, I can communicate the location of the enemy while I go about hacking critical CRU's. Sometimes I switch out to a different scout suit that includes drop uplinks so that my friends can attack from within. Also, a sniper on the ground can snip out tower campers. |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 21:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
It's stopped by to say snipers are useless its been said and I agree |
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xprotoman23
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1452
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Posted - 2012.07.21 21:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:It's stopped by to say snipers are useless its been said and I agree
25-35 kills per game makes you a good sniper if you can't do that your not a sniper.
Don't give me the i'm trying to play tactically BS, because if you were good you would easily be able to put up 25-35 kills without a team using a sniper. |
First Prophet
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Zombie Ninja Space Bears
35
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Posted - 2012.07.21 21:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
Best thing to be skilled for in this build right is AV tbh.
You've already pretty much got most of what you'll need. Just use your proto assault drop suit with the proto swarm and the boundless submachine gun. Close to medium range submachine guns are better than assault rifles so infantry won't be a problem, and the proto swarm will redline any dropship and make tanks drivers rethink their specialization.
Use shield instead of armor and use the low slots to buff your stamina and sprint. If you spawn with this load out on defense you can sometimes shoot vehicles as the RDV brings them into the spawn. Since you have a submachine gun you won't be able to shoot at them in their spawn but since your submachine gun will tear through them if they get close they'll basically just sit there too scared to go anywhere.
I know some people say forge guns are better but without an equipment slot on a heavy suit you'll run out of ammo after a dropship or two and you won't be much use against anyone with just your pistol, and without grouping you'll have a hard time getting a nano hive from somebody else. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 21:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
If you are daring enough, you can be like PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (how many E's does he have?) and run up to a tank, dance on it like a stripper at Tootsie's and kill the driver. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 21:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Quote:No good snipers? Then can you care to explain how I managed to land 13 sniper kills in one match in Skirmish? No, I'm not a spawn camper. Though it's a legitimate strategy, I prefer a challenge instead.
A whole 13? You hero... Bwahahaha sorry dude. 13? LoL
This is the problem. 13? You realise for giggles last build I ran about with knife only. 15-5 messing about. Not shooting. I know I'm alright at FPS. I'm far from the best though. Proto's logic is bang on. You've got to be getting top kills before sniping is a worthy option. I accept people need to practise though.
The problem is what you CAN'T / WON'T do as a sniper. Capping, blowing tanks up, blocking shots with your face, healing, getting in the enemies face, providing FORWARD spawn points, rargh RAGE
ANDJ3H is the only guy sniping effectively at the moment. Why? Because he'll still cap an objective using RE&SMG, then keep that objective by any means. He's not a sniper, he just uses a sniper rifle. He's a damn good player. |
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
781
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Posted - 2012.07.21 21:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Quote:No good snipers? Then can you care to explain how I managed to land 13 sniper kills in one match in Skirmish? No, I'm not a spawn camper. Though it's a legitimate strategy, I prefer a challenge instead.
A whole 13? You hero... Bwahahaha sorry dude. 13? LoL This is the problem. 13? You realise for giggles last build I ran about with knife only. 15-5 messing about. Not shooting. I know I'm alright at FPS. I'm far from the best though. Proto's logic is bang on. You've got to be getting top kills before sniping is a worthy option. I accept people need to practise though. The problem is what you CAN'T / WON'T do as a sniper. Capping, blowing tanks up, blocking shots with your face, healing, getting in the enemies face, providing FORWARD spawn points, rargh RAGE ANDJ3H is the only guy sniping effectively at the moment. Why? Because he'll still cap an objective using RE&SMG, then keep that objective by any means. He's not a sniper, he just uses a sniper rifle. He's a damn good player.
ANDDDDJUHHHH |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 00:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
I nipped on for 1 hour and managed to have 4 games in EU skirmish
Every game had 1 tank, at least 3 games had 2 tanks and various dropships floating about
I quickly realised im being forced to play as Tank driver or an AV guy because ther seems to be no room for Assualt guys anymore
Sure you can play as assault and try to hack objectives and whatnot but you will constantly have to avoid at least 2 tanks and a shitload of heavys with either ARs or forge guns with non stop running about since spalsh damage is ******* huge and can take you out on the otherside of cover
Hell in those games it was no spawns left and getting out was a pain and dont try to take an objective because the entire enemy team and its 2 tanks will drop in on you just because everyone else seems to quit because they already know whats going to happen so they cut ther losses, every game ended up with less than 10ppl on my side when it was all tanks
Whoever said snipers are useful they are not, mostly because they dont have a OHK weapon to rely on and they have to accuratly hit 2 shots in rapid fire or at least follow a moving target after the 1st shot which 99.9% cannot do and they end up being useless
Whoever said logi suit will tank aswell as an assault suit they are also wrong, look at the stats in the marketplace and compare basic stats, i can do most logi things with the proto assault suit if i wanted tbh
With this map the sand is being removed from the box and in its place is 2 boxes tbh, AV or tank driver
Argue all you want but you know im ******* right, thers more tanks on the field of play with more heavys and forge guns ******* about and im seeing less MI unless its useless snipers or heavys with AR because they can tank
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Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2012.07.22 00:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
snipers areent useless,they just get paid crap compared to the other roles. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 00:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Whoever said snipers are useful they are not, mostly because they dont have a OHK weapon to rely on and they have to accuratly hit 2 shots in rapid fire or at least follow a moving target after the 1st shot which 99.9% cannot do and they end up being useless
Whoever said logi suit will tank aswell as an assault suit they are also wrong, look at the stats in the marketplace and compare basic stats, i can do most logi things with the proto assault suit if i wanted tbh
Bad snipers are bad. Nobody's arguing. You're trying to use the example of a BAD sniper to say that a GOOD sniper is bad, which is stupid.
And at the moment, the fittings screen doesn't show the aspect that Logis have an advantage with - SLOTS. They let you tank more than the base stats indicate. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
416
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 00:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
eh, at standard level they have no slot advantage, at advanced it has 1 more low slot than assault, and at prototype it has one more high slot.
my advanced logi has about 60 health less than my advanced assault, and a slightly weaker shield recharge. if i really wanted to i COULD throw another armor plate in that bonus low slot and end up with slightly MORE health, but it already MOVES slower than the assault, and a plate would slow it down even more. (so right now it has a slightly superior armor self rep)
not to mention that 1 point of armor is less valuable than 1 point of shields just by virtue of shields auto regenerating. i am curious to get up to proto logi though and see where i end up with that 4th high slot. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 08:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Quote:No good snipers? Then can you care to explain how I managed to land 13 sniper kills in one match in Skirmish? No, I'm not a spawn camper. Though it's a legitimate strategy, I prefer a challenge instead.
A whole 13? You hero... Bwahahaha sorry dude. 13? LoL This is the problem. 13? You realise for giggles last build I ran about with knife only. 15-5 messing about. Not shooting. I know I'm alright at FPS. I'm far from the best though. Proto's logic is bang on. You've got to be getting top kills before sniping is a worthy option. I accept people need to practise though. The problem is what you CAN'T / WON'T do as a sniper. Capping, blowing tanks up, blocking shots with your face, healing, getting in the enemies face, providing FORWARD spawn points, rargh RAGE ANDJ3H is the only guy sniping effectively at the moment. Why? Because he'll still cap an objective using RE&SMG, then keep that objective by any means. He's not a sniper, he just uses a sniper rifle. He's a damn good player.
Since when have arbitrary numbers got involved here? Just because someone has 35 kills and I got 13 doesn't mean that I am a bad sniper. It just means that someone is a better sniper than me. A bad sniper is one who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a cannon.
Kudos to the guy who is daring enough to face his enemy, but I'm strictly a sniper by heart because I don't do well with attacking the enemy like an assault would. I go in undetected, hack anything that is left unattended, and hide again waiting for enemy assaults to pop out. Sometimes I even go as far as hunt other snipers that might be out looking for me. |
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Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 08:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sniping has its place but I dont think many are up to the job. When I snipe i dont normaly get more than 15 kills a game and in my mind that means I'm not really helping enuf.
As for the tanks well I think we need a well writen nerf the hell outa tansk thread :)
My engrish is bad so i wont be starting it but is are happy 2 support. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 09:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sha, the tanks are just fine. Skill up a prototype swarm launcher or proto forge gun and even the marauder drivers will think twice about what they're doing. My brother played a match with his team and won. He was mainly a logi guy this match and they won without even using a single vehicle. Please keep in mind that he drives maruaders himself and has learned that the sagaris has a natural predator. |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 09:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Sha, the tanks are just fine. Skill up a prototype swarm launcher or proto forge gun and even the marauder drivers will think twice about what they're doing. My brother played a match with his team and won. He was mainly a logi guy this match and they won without even using a single vehicle. Please keep in mind that he drives maruaders himself and has learned that the sagaris has a natural predator.
Sorry but I dont agree with ya on this I haz proto mass driver and I just cant kill any well fit rocket tanks unless they get stuck on terrain.
Got a a drunk Irish tanky in my corp and even tho I consider myself emotionaly mature he is able to push me to my limmits (first rage quit in like 10 years of gaming) gave my corp a good laught at how butthut I was lol.
Anyway we chat about anti tank stuff alot and he even admits himself he aint so worried about forgeguns. Seen him wipe out 3 forge guys in seconds without braking a sweat tho he claims they were noobs.
Dude also says swarmlaunchers are basicly cute.
I dont think I'm that much of a noob myself ,anyway trying hard to get better but I just aint good enuf to deal with the good tankys even with help. |
Booker DaFooker
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
69
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 09:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
Totally agree with OP but have also got to add that IMHO things will change when we can team up properly. We usually manage to get several of our guys on the same side for matches and we combat the tank and dropship issue pretty well with good comms, team work and some tactics that we have worked out, and we rarely use tanks to do that. Dont get me wrong, on the whole I agree in principle but if you run with a good team you just start to see vehicles as potential SP! |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 09:37:00 -
[55] - Quote
But booker it just dont seem right that it takes sooo many guys to deal with one dam tank. Just a little buff of say 15% on forgegun direct hits would make all the diff...arg but that would be way OP against Dropships...I dont knwo the awnser.
Sod it just gona try and recruit more hotshot anti tank guys then I wont haz to worry my little brain about it. |
Booker DaFooker
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
69
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 09:50:00 -
[56] - Quote
with you all the way Sha, a solution needs to be found to balance things but you know we've been in matches where we have forced people to stop spawning vehicles because its costing them too much, and that is because we work together to achieve that, team working is at the core of this game. I think OP is right but he would not be so adamant about it if grouping was activated for the build. Teams beat tanks, tanks beat individuals |
Leos Saotome
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.07.22 10:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
Quote:So really the only defensive i have is RE which need to be planted and try to lure the tank over em and i may do damage but it needs other ppl to help out - cant be refilled
AV nades hit n miss - cant be refilled
Uhm.. actually u can refill them at the Fitting Station. U just have to go in the Menu at the Station and select ur Dropsuite build. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 10:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
Not to dismiss your well reasoned complaint, I do, however, notice a majority of the top kills players are assault type players, and I suspect assault types are still getting a dominant amount of the skill points each round.
All you'd really need to do to be useful in AV is drop 1M in Proto Swarm Launchers, and pair that with a SMG. (or pistol if that's your thing) Nanohives are also pretty critical.
AV is helpful for the team, but often people bail out before you get kills, and when you're doing your job well, you run out of things to shoot.. letting you get back to assault/SMG work.
Edit: reading some above comments, just wanted to say that Prototype Swarm Launchers and Forge Cannons are Anti-Vehicle. Mass Drivers are not in the same league. I've solo killed both a Sagaris and a Surya in less than a 5 minute period with a Proto SL. Even Militia Swarm launchers clear the sky, just not as well. Forge cannons are heavy hitters. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 13:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
The problem comes when snake and I are forced to use antitank loadouts because it takes literally a whole team to kill a well fitted HAV. It's the fact mr 13-0 sniper will still be saying "I'm useful", the 0-13 guys just want to quit, and there's always some chump in a Dropship doing naff all.
What's that? You want the good players to carry the bad ones? No no no.... Not like this.... This means I don't make my character.... The backward mofos I'm with make my char.
The same guys who won't go 30-0 or whatever playing as infantry.
@anyone sniping still.
Being a pure sniper you suck. Go hybrid or gtfo. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 13:57:00 -
[60] - Quote
Leos Saotome wrote:Quote:So really the only defensive i have is RE which need to be planted and try to lure the tank over em and i may do damage but it needs other ppl to help out - cant be refilled
AV nades hit n miss - cant be refilled
Uhm.. actually u can refill them at the Fitting Station. U just have to go in the Menu at the Station and select ur Dropsuite build.
Cant do tht when the tank retards destroy everything as usual
Even 5 RE knocked it down past shields into armor but without proper back up or an AV im ****** |
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