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Sin3 DeusNomine Doomheim 142	Posted - 2012.07.16 05:41:00 - [1] - Quote Well after seeing the many nerf threads about tanks I decided that there was need to post up a thread for keeping tanks exactly how they are. My reasons why. 1. Well you would hurt the AV skilled player community. Any players that has thrown 6m+ SP into a AV set up will have no challenge to go against. Currently some of the best AV builds out there are finding marauder tanks to be easy the way it is. -It hurts them because when they should be getting the kills and making there SP off these enemies all of a sudden a nerfed version of the tank will become a easy target for standard launchers. So a guy or 2 with standard launchers will be able to take out these tanks. With that happening all of a sudden high skilled AV people have nothing to do because all the newere players will be able to take out the vehicles before they can deal with them. This will make great AV builds a stagnant class compared to the rest. -People are spec in this and they can handle tanks pretty well and if you get a couple of them together they are very deadly to a tank. 2. Tanks are going to become very very expensive in the future. With that expense if you do a nerf to the tanks you will seriously hurt your game play with tanks never being used because the risk/reward factor will turn into just a isk sink 3. once they implement skill point set lobbies. your lower skilled players will not be getting stuck with 6m point marauder tank drivers. I know they have mentioned once that they where going to try to seprate people based on there SPs. 4. with that last thing being said when your marauder is in a high SP lobby it does have survival trouble when put in a lobby with high skilled AV fits. It could almost be said it is under powered. But i think this will correct it self when skills actually effect vehicles. I would like to get the support of the Proto out AV specialist because I know I have seen you post against nerfing of the tanks. And it would show CCP that tanks are not OP just that when thrown into matches where people are not skilled in AV they gain the appearance of it. And I think the real solution is once they get a better match making system tank and AV warfare will change because each will be close in skill lvl
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.07.16 05:49:00 - [2] - Quote Tank driver here. Tanks are fine the way they are. As soon as the AV guys can group up and take out an asset multiples more expensive than their AV equipment, you'll probably find tank drivers on here asking for buffs or AV nerfs. Group up. Seriously. A pack of forge gunners / SL'ers has me running ****less. The lone militia SL guy on a roof sitting on a nanohive? Hell, sometimes I'll just sit there and eat them like skittles.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.16 05:53:00 - [3] - Quote The only problems with vehicles are the price (which is being increased) and the lack of teamwork when people have to go against vehicles. EDIT: I should mention - I play AV Scout.
Jack McReady 46	Posted - 2012.07.16 09:44:00 - [4] - Quote none of the points are holding against the facts. 1. price => if you are funded by an eve alliance and fighting for territory then 2mil is nothing. it will be a tank vs tank game 2. in the current build the tanks speed, obstacles on the map and poor flying path make swarms useless. I have the skills to use proto launcher and I can consider myself lucky when I get a full hit or even a hit at all (a full hit takes away 15% shields of a good sagaris fit which almost never happens unless the tank is in the wide open). the flying path of swarms is really bad, even curving is almost impossible. tanks are able to dodge swarm launcher missiles like a ninja in the current build. if swarm launcher missiles are not able to keep up with a competent driver, how are heavies with forge guns supposed to walk up and get a clean shot? they are too slow for that job. 3. dropship in the tanks deadzone argument => the dropship weapons damage is pathetic against a tank. you think your small launchers matter against a sagaris? the sagaris can ignore it and will laugh his ass off as you waste your time. the dropship will just get shot down in no time by someone else. stop using shitfits and bad drivers as argument for tanks.
Nexus Cavor KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 88	Posted - 2012.07.16 10:13:00 - [5] - Quote Like I have already stated... Don't nerf tanks. I am a Prototype Forge Gun user here. I love fighting a gritty battle with a tank. That means the game is realistic. It is a freaking tank. What do you expect them to do? Shoot soap bubbles and confetti? No, they should be OP, shock and awe weapons that demoralize infantry with pure terror. Tanks are doing their job people... The question is... Are you doing your job?
Jack McReady 46	Posted - 2012.07.16 10:23:00 - [6] - Quote Nexus Cavor wrote: Like I have already stated... Don't nerf tanks. I am a Prototype Forge Gun user here. I love fighting a gritty battle with a tank. That means the game is realistic. It is a freaking tank. What do you expect them to do? Shoot soap bubbles and confetti? No, they should be OP, shock and awe weapons that demoralize infantry with pure terror. Tanks are doing their job people... The question is... Are you doing your job? in short: you have no point I have not lost my sagaris till yet. it has 15k effective shield hp and all I do is to move nonstop around the map and kill infantry on the fly. swarms fired on me usually hit some obstacle and I rarely get hit more then once from a forge gun cause the heavies are too slow to keep up with my speed and the meantime I happily regain health to full shield hp again from the pathetic 2k damage you have done. I can ignore dropships because their weapons deal low damage to me, they get shot down by someone else by the time I get significantly hurt or I just drive on a hill and use the hills angle to shoot up and 3 shot the drop ship. there is no battle because at the moment nothing can challenge me except another high sp tank driver.
Ryan Martel Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2012.07.16 10:33:00 - [7] - Quote Sin3 DeusNomine wrote: I would like to get the support of the Proto out AV specialist because I know I have seen you post against nerfing of the tanks. And it would show CCP that tanks are not OP just that when thrown into matches where people are not skilled in AV they gain the appearance of it. And I think the real solution is once they get a better match making system tank and AV warfare will change because each will be close in skill lvl As you wish. Tanks have their purpose. Militia variants give new tank drives practice in learning the controls and so forth and for a starting tank, they do the job but don't expect them to stay valid for long or last long against a prototype swarm launcher/forge gunner. Marauders are the big boys and take concerted efforts to take down either by the lone guy who catches them off guard or with a posse that travels in packs to deal with them. Sure I can do it solo but it is way easier to kill tanks with teamwork. Nerfing the Marauder Tank makes my 10 million SP specializing in this task obsolete. I put in around 30,000 ISK every time so far since I am in Tier 2 suits rocking prototype swarmers and prototype modules as best as I can muster to be that damn effective against them. I can easily get over 3,000 damage in a single shot with a Swarmer at the moment. I have put SP into increasing reload time, ammo capacity and so forth. I laugh like a maniac every time I blow up one of the Marauders because my build has finally paid off and keeps getting better as time goes on. Also I have seen Sagaris/Surya pilots get absolutely curb stomped when there is enough firepower being thrown in their direction from a good co-ordinated team. Heck, I have taken down four in a single match at times because I had great back up then. On the flip side of things I have gotten completely curb stomped as well by them when I was with a team of Mute Mook and went up against five of those damn things... at once. Sure I killed about three of them but all that happened was they simply spawned another. Whats my point in this? If I can walk it off and get back into the fray then there is no excuse why others cannot take the time needed to at the very least dabble in a good AV weapon or give good support for those that do. Maybe Jack is right in there needing to be a tweak but I do not think it's the tanks themselves that are the issue.
Nexus Cavor KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 88	Posted - 2012.07.16 10:36:00 - [8] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Nexus Cavor wrote: Like I have already stated... Don't nerf tanks. I am a Prototype Forge Gun user here. I love fighting a gritty battle with a tank. That means the game is realistic. It is a freaking tank. What do you expect them to do? Shoot soap bubbles and confetti? No, they should be OP, shock and awe weapons that demoralize infantry with pure terror. Tanks are doing their job people... The question is... Are you doing your job? in short: you have no point I have not lost my sagaris till yet. it has 15k effective shield hp and all I do is to move nonstop around the map and kill infantry on the fly. swarms fired on me usually hit some obstacle and I rarely get hit more then once from a forge gun cause the heavies are too slow to keep up with my speed and the meantime I happily regain health to full shield hp again from the pathetic 2k damage you have done. I can ignore dropships because their weapons deal low damage to me, they get shot down by someone else by the time I get significantly hurt or I just drive on a hill and use the hills angle to shoot up and 3 shot the drop ship. there is no battle because at the moment nothing can challenge me except another high sp tank driver. So basically what you are saying is that you claim to be piloting a tank effectively and no one else really knows how to combat that so tanks should be nerfed due to skilled use? Yes, that makes perfect sense...
Jack McReady 46	Posted - 2012.07.16 12:07:00 - [9] - Quote Ryan Martel wrote: I can easily get over 3,000 damage in a single shot with a Swarmer proto swarm launcher deals 2100 damage with all missiles. I am not sure if weaponry skill works on it, that would still be only 2400 and after resistance mods on the tank this number shrinks by alot. and if the tank moves nonstop it is ZERO damage cause the rockets with hit the ground or an obstacle. Nexus Cavor wrote: So basically what you are saying is that you claim to be piloting a tank effectively and no one else really knows how to combat that so tanks should be nerfed due to skilled use? Yes, that makes perfect sense... no I am not the only one that figured out that you can abuse the tanks speed to be impossible to kill. I see it in every 2nd game now. sagaris drives around and kills everyone that dares to spawn. you cant kill this tank because you need several seconds of concentrated fire to do so, which is not possible with so many obstacles, the tanks Hp and when the tank is able to cross the whole map that fast. ignore that tank and get shot everytime he crosses your way or chase him and still die?
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 191	Posted - 2012.07.16 17:18:00 - [10] - Quote If is just the sagaris that can't be killed nerf the sagaris not ALL the tanks.

Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.07.16 17:56:00 - [11] - Quote Tank killer here, and I say tanks are fine. Nice, meaty, rewarding kills, but if I had to complain... I guess maybe slow them down a tad so that the afterburners will maybe have more of a role. Otherwise, keep the coffins coming, I hunger.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.07.16 17:58:00 - [12] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Tank killer here, and I say tanks are fine. Nice, meaty, rewarding kills, but if I had to complain... I guess maybe slow them down a tad so that the afterburners will maybe have more of a role. Otherwise, keep the coffins coming, I hunger. Tank afterburners... drools
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 907	Posted - 2012.07.16 18:07:00 - [13] - Quote What they really need to do is implement the Web grenades before they consider nerfing the tank. Once we (me and other AV players) are able to pin a tank down so it can't run then it will be screwed. It may be that the tank is OP'ed but I think we need all the tools in the toolbox to make that decision.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.07.16 18:12:00 - [14] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Tank killer here, and I say tanks are fine. Nice, meaty, rewarding kills, but if I had to complain... I guess maybe slow them down a tad so that the afterburners will maybe have more of a role. Otherwise, keep the coffins coming, I hunger. Tank afterburners... drools 3 nanos + AB - I expect to FLY. Literally.
Nom Lemming 5	Posted - 2012.07.16 18:23:00 - [15] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: If is just the sagaris that can't be killed nerf the sagaris not ALL the tanks. this... sagaris does seem to be ridiculous. Was in a match the other night where EVERY player on the team was firing swarms or forges at ONE Sagaris and it gradually munched the lot of us (when the infantry that we can't kill so well with heavy weapons like those weren't). Sure alot of those swarms were people like myself who haven't got access to the skills for heavies due to skilling in other areas but when you get that crap happening it makes the match really boring and people start to quit the match leaving you to fight out numbered as well as out gunned. Sagaris soaks damage like a quantum sponge, though it CAN be killed if you're lucky enough to get teamed up with someone who is a heavy AV specialist. Though apparently the one I was kept getting spawned infront of and dying to before I could even move was triple rep fitted so it was ALWAYS repairing. Downside at the moment is when one or two are spawned. and you can't kill them for whatever reason, you can finish a match with 0 SP's. Which means you end up with fewer AV guys because they can't get SP's early on due to tank swarms.
Kyy Seiska Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 188	Posted - 2012.07.16 18:27:00 - [16] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: proto swarm launcher deals 2100 damage with all missiles. I am not sure if weaponry skill works on it, that would still be only 2400 and after resistance mods on the tank this number shrinks by alot. and if the tank moves nonstop it is ZERO damage cause the rockets with hit the ground or an obstacle. Yeah dealing around 1575 damage(?) per swarm with prototype swarm launcher doesn't help much against these beasts with what? 7k shield hp alone? Not to mention how shield regenerates fairly fast, meaning the moment your second swarm hits, the shield has already regenerated by a fair amount. But like you said, its not all the tanks and most of them do not have this kind of a shield or armor and can be destroyed with few (usually 2-5) swarms. Tanks should not take a whole team to take down, one well equipped AV-build should be more than enough to take down a tank. Why? Because that's what they are trained and geared to do. Cost of tanks and the amount of SP needed is irrelevant as anyone can level up a skill with SP or buy stuff with ISK. It's just that most of the builds don't have access to these kinds of super weapons.
Ryan Martel Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2012.07.16 19:20:00 - [17] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: proto swarm launcher deals 2100 damage with all missiles. I am not sure if weaponry skill works on it, that would still be only 2400 and after resistance mods on the tank this number shrinks by alot. and if the tank moves nonstop it is ZERO damage cause the rockets with hit the ground or an obstacle. Weaponry does apply to it and so does any light weapon module. Im also working on the resistances modules to get around them but Im going to have to wait for better weapons and equipment that dish out thermal/electromagnetic damage like the laser weapons in order to specialize in shield busting. Also based on what you said it's not the tank itself but the damage reduction modules that need retooling from the sounds of things. They have no stacking penalty and I assume that this stacking penalty applies only if you use the exact same module? Please elaborate so I know where you come from.
Ray seveN Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2012.07.16 19:26:00 - [18] - Quote Ryan Martel wrote: Jack McReady wrote: proto swarm launcher deals 2100 damage with all missiles. I am not sure if weaponry skill works on it, that would still be only 2400 and after resistance mods on the tank this number shrinks by alot. and if the tank moves nonstop it is ZERO damage cause the rockets with hit the ground or an obstacle. Weaponry does apply to it and so does any light weapon module. Im also working on the resistances modules to get around them but Im going to have to wait for better weapons that dish out thermal/electromagnetic damage like the laser weapons. I was just about to say that. Those laser weapons (from the description) sounds like they'll eat up most vehicles and infrantry. Really want to know how effective they are towards sheild and armor
Relyt R Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2012.07.16 19:36:00 - [19] - Quote you guys do realize that if the tank has 7k shield, its shield is softer, if it reps constantly (tri rep) then it has a point where it's only using a small rep, and it has to sacrifice defenses to acheive this, which means 3 forges will instakill that tank. different setups have different weaknesses, though maintaining AV fire after their heavy rep goes off is a weakness they all share. A forge gun hurts like a mother, and my setup is a heavy buffer tank with high resistances and only 1 heavy rep. That 1 forge can take upwards of 1/4 to 1/5 of my armor per shot (i run a surya) and they can usually get off 2 shots before i can even get my tank turned around to leave, then if they're in a good spot they can get another shot or 2 off. Also, proto swarm launchers are absolutely brutal; high fire rate, massive damage, the only way to save yourself IS to hide behind something.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.07.16 21:37:00 - [20] - Quote The nerf crowd is a bunch of sissies. Don't nerf jack **** till all the pieces are in place and we can see what's what.. The homing AV grenades alone are going to make a huge difference.

Jace Kane Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2012.07.16 21:57:00 - [21] - Quote Are people seriously whining about tanks? Wow, just wow, that's pathetic. It's a TANK, you're supposed to DIE to it if you are infantry you bunch of knuckleheads. IT'S SUPPOSED TO TAKE TEAMWORK TO BLOW UP IF YOU ARE INFANTRY ITS A TANK. Do not nerf tanks they are working as intended. The only people whining about them are the knucklehead infantries trying to solo kill tanks, the scrubs that think you are only allowed to fight with a gun in FPS games, and those who are too dumb to get into a tank of their own to counter it. It's a vehichle weapon, all the work and money that goes into making one... if nerfed it would make all of that meaningless. I repeat, it should be feared, ITS A TANK. The Eve world is hard. Are you up to the challenge? Use strategy or turn your PS3 off, please. Ridiculous.
gangsta nachos Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 377	Posted - 2012.07.16 22:03:00 - [22] - Quote Tanks are overpowered they will be fixed soon tank scrub beware
Sin3 DeusNomine Doomheim 142	Posted - 2012.07.17 02:44:00 - [23] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: none of the points are holding against the facts. 1. price => if you are funded by an eve alliance and fighting for territory then 2mil is nothing. it will be a tank vs tank game 2. in the current build the tanks speed, obstacles on the map and poor flying path make swarms useless. I have the skills to use proto launcher and I can consider myself lucky when I get a full hit or even a hit at all (a full hit takes away 15% shields of a good sagaris fit which almost never happens unless the tank is in the wide open). the flying path of swarms is really bad, even curving is almost impossible. tanks are able to dodge swarm launcher missiles like a ninja in the current build. if swarm launcher missiles are not able to keep up with a competent driver, how are heavies with forge guns supposed to walk up and get a clean shot? they are too slow for that job. 3. dropship in the tanks deadzone argument => the dropship weapons damage is pathetic against a tank. you think your small launchers matter against a sagaris? the sagaris can ignore it and will laugh his ass off as you waste your time. the dropship will just get shot down in no time by someone else. stop using shitfits and bad drivers as argument for tanks. Jack you say none of my points are holding against the facts then only talk about one thing and that is price. Well you also talk about proto swarms but you say that is all you have 1. To counter your price example. Jack you have to think corps will not just be buying tanks they have a 100m MCC to keep in the air. Then they have the vehicles for delivering there vehicles to buy. Then they have CPUs. After that they have all there installations. And then any other destructible object on battle field has to be paid for by them if they want it out there. They also have to pay for ground to space defense units to take out people trying to orbital bombard them. Trust me 2m isk into a tank will matter for corps. Now you also have to realize about 70% of your players out there are not going to be active in a corp so there for they will not benefit from corp gains. And right now having to pay 2m per tank would keep me from calling them out every game I could not afford it because that is about 8 games worth of isk. 2. Your swarm objection. I got a proto swarm launcher and I can not hit a tank. First off it sounds like that is all you invested in for AV weapon and do not even have the skills to back it up like some of the AV builds out there. And after that it sounds like your one of those guys that expect to sit on a roof of a building lock on shoot and get a easy kill. No it does not work that way you need to actually set up a point of attack just like a sagaris drive needs to think of his best route to keep himself safe from getting destroyed. Edited: because mitchman did point out a mistake was thinking wrong.
Sin3 DeusNomine Doomheim 142	Posted - 2012.07.17 02:56:00 - [24] - Quote I ran out of room. And for anyone who does not believe there will be a separation in players by there skill points lvl here is a thread that shows a dev confirming they are fixing match making so new players will not get stuck against a higher points player. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=25189&find=unread
Mitchman 514 36	Posted - 2012.07.17 03:10:00 - [25] - Quote He's talking about _effective_ HP. 7.5k HP at 50% resistance is 15k effective HP.
Sin3 DeusNomine Doomheim 142	Posted - 2012.07.17 03:16:00 - [26] - Quote Mitchman 514 wrote: He's talking about _effective_ HP. 7.5k HP at 50% resistance is 15k effective HP. Thanks Mitchman late night and I was looking at damage resist wrong. So corrected myself. But still with that said. I see tons of sagaris geting dropped. I was in a match where my team popped 6 sagaris and 2 surya's the enemy team took big loss and we won. But that is because we had a lobby with a few great AV set ups.
Ryan Martel Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2012.07.17 03:17:00 - [27] - Quote Sin3 DeusNomine wrote: Edited out due to courteousy. Just to give you a helping hand on that Sin, I did a recent numbers crunch on my rockets and also know the AV grenades I wield do about 2198.1 per Grenade. If all three detonate then thats 6,594.3 damage. Darn good for grenades of course but let's talk about the rockets I use. I start with a base of 350 damage per missile. There are six rockets per volley and a total of six shots for now in my entire payload. I tried putting increased ammo capacity and haven't noticed any changes in my rockets max ammo but weaponry seems to influence my attack strength as well which is 25%. Multiply the damage by .25 and you get 87.5 as additional damage per rocket dealing 437.5 per rocket. I can go a touch further adding perhaps two complex light weapon modules to add to my current damage which is 18%. Multiply the current value and you get 78.75 to add on further. That totals 516.25 per missile that connects. If all six missiles connect that is 3,076.5 damage per volley. Not sure how much damage reduction would cut that down by but as I recall shields have some decent resistance to explosive damage by default so it's not my best foot forward but against an Armor Based Tank like a Surya I'll do insidious damage to them. But onto the numbers crunch again. If all my missiles connect theres 18,459 damage total from the rockets. Add the grenades as well and the grand total is... 25,053.3 Thats the very best I can unleash against someone for now. Might we have someone do a numbers crunch for the damage reduction and so forth? PS - I'll be honest and say that Math is my worst subject so if I did this numbers crunch completely wrong then I apologize in advance.
Sin3 DeusNomine Doomheim 142	Posted - 2012.07.17 03:35:00 - [28] - Quote Thanks Ryan ya the info I put above was kind of miss calculated long day of work. So currently 15k is probably close to the Best a tank driver can pull off. And I have a feeling 18k EHP might be possible once they fix the skills not transferring over to vehicles for some reason. You do show it is possible to Solo any tank if all goes perfect. Which it never does. A few swarms always miss or something goes bad. But if you have a second player with a decent advanced build even they can probably easily finish off what you started. Now your a great example of a guy that equals most tank drivers in skill points except yours are put into AV. I know I have been taken out by you before and yes your set up hurts big time I drive a tank with 4.9k shield HP and 61% resists with nanos and Large Missile Turrets for a set up. I know that it is possible to get blown up pretty easy once you make your mistake as a tank driver. You hit a object you are stuck trying to rebuild your speed which takes forever. And from there forge gunners and SL can take advantage of the situation It would be nice to here from a proto forge gunner what they put out. Right now I think the price tag is going to change tank usage big time. I would not mind seeing it in the next build. Also if they implement the high sec lobbies set up you will not see sagaris facing new players. And they should then be facing more higher skilled AV set ups like you currently run. Militant fitted enemies of coarse make a decent tank seem OP. But people like you kind of put us vehicle drivers in there place.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.07.17 04:04:00 - [29] - Quote ProtoForge here I'll put up the specifics when the server comes back up, but as much as I remember is this. Ishikune Assault Forge Gun: 1400~ damage standard. Weaponry lvl 5 (5% per level) and Forge Gun Proficiency lvl 5 (5% per level): 2100 Heavy Complex Damage Modifier (10%): 2310 Fire Rate: 2.5 second charge, .5 second cooldown Forge Gun Specialization lvl 5 (5% per level): 1.875 second charge. Assuming I remembered the correct numbers (I sincerely doubt that, I think Forge Prof may have been 3%) and my math is correct, we have a bit more than 1240 DPS if we never miss and there is no damage falloff, before damage harders. Corrections will ensue on Thursday.
Jack McReady 46	Posted - 2012.07.17 07:54:00 - [30] - Quote Sin3 DeusNomine wrote: stuff your assumption show that you actually have no points at all and you obviously have not figured out how to drive a tank in the current build effectively. I will never lose my sagaris tank as long as I dont stop moving and have not lost a single one. those proto swarms and forge guns do not bother me, every swarm volley fired in my direction is a waste of time because the moment it is fired I am already somewhere else and it will fly into an obstacle or hit the ground because the fly path is really bad. I get hit twice by a forge gun at most before I am out of vision, it only tickles and I move on. after a few seconds I am back with full hp (because I drive circles around the map) and one shot you with my turret the moment I ride past you. dropships also dont bother me, their turret damage is low I can basically ignore them, drive to a hill and abuse the hills angle to be able to shoot the dropship which drops in 3 hits at most if its heavy tanked. it is not that tanks are hard to kill when they dont move, the problem is when they never stop moving combined with the massive HP then you are never able to put enough concentrated fire to kill them. the tank does not need to stay to be dangerous, he only need to show up once in a while one shot a few dropsuits and move on to the next objective. With my sagaris I cause havoc and disruption the whole game. you cant chase me because I am faster, you cant kill me because I have 15k effective shield hp, you cant touch me because I dodge every missile like a ninja. Zero Harpuia wrote: ProtoForge here I'll put up the specifics when the server comes back up, but as much as I remember is this. Ishikune Assault Forge Gun: 1400~ damage standard. Weaponry lvl 5 (5% per level) and Forge Gun Proficiency lvl 5 (5% per level): 2100 Heavy Complex Damage Modifier (10%): 2310 Fire Rate: 2.5 second charge, .5 second cooldown Forge Gun Specialization lvl 5 (5% per level): 1.875 second charge. Assuming I remembered the correct numbers (I sincerely doubt that, I think Forge Prof may have been 3%) and my math is correct, we have a bit more than 1240 DPS if we never miss and there is no damage falloff, before damage harders. Corrections will ensue on Thursday. isnt weaponry and weapon proficiency both 3%?

Ryan Martel Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2012.07.20 10:55:00 - [31] - Quote Nope. It's 5% per level for Weaponry. Unless I really do need glasses. Anyway after some well needed grinding and getting 2 million skill points after last weekend plus the bonus, I now have the prototype heavy and sweet Mary what a difference in killing power. This brings my total skill points to nearly 12 million. So once again I had to do the numbers crunch and see just how much power I could currently put on this thing. Why? Because I don't just wanna bump this topic without good information to chew on. There is a Damage Multiplier which comes at the end of all the modules and skill boosters further adding to the damage I can throw out when attacking. So what this does is effectively double my payload in terms of damage. If it's actually working of course. Haven't had the luxury to try it out yet since no Marauders have currently shown up during last night that weren't taken out by others. Seems like a lot of people are catching on that AV speccing to some degree is a must if you wanna stop them. Anyway onto the whole gig. Currently after all the mods being applied I do 553 without any multiplier. Since this Prototype Heavy suit has one (if I have done the math right which again is not my strong point.) this means my missiles each do 1,106. If the entire volley strikes it deals 6,636. With a grand total of six volleys in my entire payload, this gives a total of 39,816 if all hit. Add the grenades (if they all explode) and I get a grand total of 46,383. I think that basically will wreck any Marauder-Class Tank given the chance solo. If a trio or quartet of AV specialists with that build comes that way, good night. Hell I can still improve upon that and I shall but for now this is the best I can potentially dish out
Jonquill Caronite Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.07.20 11:22:00 - [32] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Ryan Martel wrote: I can easily get over 3,000 damage in a single shot with a Swarmer proto swarm launcher deals 2100 damage with all missiles. I am not sure if weaponry skill works on it, that would still be only 2400 and after resistance mods on the tank this number shrinks by alot. and if the tank moves nonstop it is ZERO damage cause the rockets with hit the ground or an obstacle. Nexus Cavor wrote: So basically what you are saying is that you claim to be piloting a tank effectively and no one else really knows how to combat that so tanks should be nerfed due to skilled use? Yes, that makes perfect sense... no I am not the only one that figured out that you can abuse the tanks speed to be impossible to kill. I see it in every 2nd game now. sagaris drives around and kills everyone that dares to spawn. you cant kill this tank because you need several seconds of concentrated fire to do so, which is not possible with so many obstacles, the tanks Hp and when the tank is able to cross the whole map that fast. ignore that tank and get shot everytime he crosses your way or chase him and still die? Point only relevant on this map because all objectives are in the open where a tank can hit them... More structures tanks cant penetrate and internal warfare means you have a speedy tank circling a structure with nothing to shoot while your MCC is slowly whittled down, or your team fights the battle to gain command points to whittle down the other teams MCC... Its a valid tactic, you win, tanks own this match if used the way you use them, but still you require a team to take points since you ARENT taking points, and further another tank comes out, and the battle is up for grabs... Drive by is a legit strategy... No 300+k investment should EVER be killed in a one hit wonder unless that weapon is a similar costing artillery strike or some such... So. YES it takes concentrated fire, tanks shouldnt be one shottable once they are Prototype, unless its a super weapon that cost near as much as the tank, and thats that... Your point would make tanks useless if taken into consideration, then not only would you stop using them but EVERYONE, and someone would always keep a superweapon up their sleeve just in case...
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.20 12:33:00 - [33] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: proto swarm launcher deals 2100 damage with all missiles. I am not sure if weaponry skill works on it, that would still be only 2400 and after resistance mods on the tank this number shrinks by alot. and if the tank moves nonstop it is ZERO damage cause the rockets with hit the ground or an obstacle. Get better with your Swarm Launcher. There are ways to make sure you hit a moving target, you just need to know how to make the shots go where you want them to.


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