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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 15:22:00 - [61] - Quote PAY TO WIN wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: PAY TO WIN wrote: Why does it matter that the truth came from wikipedia? Are you mad because it came from wikipedia or are you mad because its true? I've pointed out exactly how and why your reasoning was flawed, but also provided a LEGITIMATE reason why your poorly-reached conclusion was correct. But you wouldn't bother to address that, would you? so................. DUST is a series of boardroom meetings with an FPS mini game in between? You're forgetting the infantry and vehicle creation minigame that ties into the FPS minigame, and the RPG-based skill trees, but pretty much, yeah. Why? What did you think it was going to be?
counter logic BetaMax. 42	Posted - 2012.07.17 19:01:00 - [62] - Quote I believe the wikipedia definition is very correct. I also believe DUST is doing a good job of keeping too it. I also feel that people are finding it hard to cope with the fact that they aren't as good as they think they are. So they immediately assume the game is broken just because they feel they are better than everyone, yet that doesn't translate into game play. One last thing, this game is still hugely in the balancing process, so if you feel something is imbalanced. Post, and provide details on why, or stats supporting your claims. HTFU, thanks.
DonRodie II 14	Posted - 2012.07.17 19:17:00 - [63] - Quote lol This more like a mmofpsRPG
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.17 19:45:00 - [64] - Quote Septem Mortuus wrote: Aaron Atreides wrote: Tony Calif wrote: @snake Mostly right, just the bit about getting bonuses in other games. I agree you get to choose, but it is always from a limited selection (cod4 example -stoping power vs juggernaut). Dust allows us to stack all the bonuses. New guys get destroyed, and I see this causing trouble down the line. Ok, If this was just a FPS then I would get this argument and agree with you. But this is also a MMO. Almost all if not all MMO's have skill points, as you progress in the game an beat content or players you get more skill points, these are applied to many different categories to improve your avatar. In our case we use them on weapons, gear, mods, electronics. This is how you lvl up your player, otherwise whats the point of playing a MMO. Any good MMO the longer you play the better your stats a/o gear are supposed to be. I come from DCUO which is almost two years old and new players come in all the time, they all say the same thing "I can't beat the older players" "they players who were here since it started are to far ahead of me" This is just the way of any MMO, the longer and longer you play the greater the distance you get from a starting player to a Vet player. But if you work hard and get help and play right you should get close to those Vet players. Many mmos that have expansions, will use those to help everyone not get to far ahead of each other, the time before an expansion is the time to catch up to the other players, then when expansion comes out they work towards new goals for skills. Do you guys not get this part? Do you not understand this is a MMOFPS, really the first of its kind. So get used to this sorta thing, its going to be the norm soon enough. Tony, amongst others have a VERY big problem with there being MMO aspect sin this game. Seriously, do a search and he's systematically complained about and demanded the removal of pretty much EVERY aspect of this game that isn't pure FPS. It's part of a concerted attempt to turn DUST 514 into MAG 2.0 We call them MAGgots, but in a loving way. Conspiracy theory tbh. There are ways to balance mmopvp. In WoW for example they only allow players of equal levels to play against each other. lvl 10 to lvl 20 plays against each and so on. If there is going to be this much of a difference in how good proto gear is over militia gear then we might need to seperate the lobbies. Of course we can't do that right now. There wouldn't be many people in the proto lobbies atm but this would be a great idea come release time. Group the lobbies based on how much SP people have.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:14:00 - [65] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Conspiracy theory tbh. There are ways to balance mmopvp. In WoW for example they only allow players of equal levels to play against each other. lvl 10 to lvl 20 plays against each and so on. If there is going to be this much of a difference in how good proto gear is over militia gear then we might need to seperate the lobbies. Of course we can't do that right now. There wouldn't be many people in the proto lobbies atm but this would be a great idea come release time. Group the lobbies based on how much SP people have. There have been many suggestions that the matchmaking system for HighSec in DUST will separate players by skill level in some form. I think SP is probably a good measure to use, so that works for me. But LowSec and NullSec shouldn't have those restrictions. That's the POINT of those areas of space.
Aaron Atreides 140	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:14:00 - [66] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Septem Mortuus wrote: Aaron Atreides wrote: Tony Calif wrote: @snake Mostly right, just the bit about getting bonuses in other games. I agree you get to choose, but it is always from a limited selection (cod4 example -stoping power vs juggernaut). Dust allows us to stack all the bonuses. New guys get destroyed, and I see this causing trouble down the line. Ok, If this was just a FPS then I would get this argument and agree with you. But this is also a MMO. Almost all if not all MMO's have skill points, as you progress in the game an beat content or players you get more skill points, these are applied to many different categories to improve your avatar. In our case we use them on weapons, gear, mods, electronics. This is how you lvl up your player, otherwise whats the point of playing a MMO. Any good MMO the longer you play the better your stats a/o gear are supposed to be. I come from DCUO which is almost two years old and new players come in all the time, they all say the same thing "I can't beat the older players" "they players who were here since it started are to far ahead of me" This is just the way of any MMO, the longer and longer you play the greater the distance you get from a starting player to a Vet player. But if you work hard and get help and play right you should get close to those Vet players. Many mmos that have expansions, will use those to help everyone not get to far ahead of each other, the time before an expansion is the time to catch up to the other players, then when expansion comes out they work towards new goals for skills. Do you guys not get this part? Do you not understand this is a MMOFPS, really the first of its kind. So get used to this sorta thing, its going to be the norm soon enough. Tony, amongst others have a VERY big problem with there being MMO aspect sin this game. Seriously, do a search and he's systematically complained about and demanded the removal of pretty much EVERY aspect of this game that isn't pure FPS. It's part of a concerted attempt to turn DUST 514 into MAG 2.0 We call them MAGgots, but in a loving way. Conspiracy theory tbh. There are ways to balance mmopvp. In WoW for example they only allow players of equal levels to play against each other. lvl 10 to lvl 20 plays against each and so on. If there is going to be this much of a difference in how good proto gear is over militia gear then we might need to separate the lobbies. Of course we can't do that right now. There wouldn't be many people in the proto lobbies atm but this would be a great idea come release time. Group the lobbies based on how much SP people have. Actually a lot of players, myself included wont be in the same playing area as the newer players. We will be in High and Low secs and wont really play each other. Also some MMO's dont separate out players of different lvl's. If you que for something like PvP (Corp vs Corp) then you need to bring your A-game. But I expect only the good corps to be doing this. Also they will have PvE for new players to get better skill points in to help them out.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:17:00 - [67] - Quote Aaron Atreides wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: Septem Mortuus wrote: Aaron Atreides wrote: Tony Calif wrote: @snake Mostly right, just the bit about getting bonuses in other games. I agree you get to choose, but it is always from a limited selection (cod4 example -stoping power vs juggernaut). Dust allows us to stack all the bonuses. New guys get destroyed, and I see this causing trouble down the line. Ok, If this was just a FPS then I would get this argument and agree with you. But this is also a MMO. Almost all if not all MMO's have skill points, as you progress in the game an beat content or players you get more skill points, these are applied to many different categories to improve your avatar. In our case we use them on weapons, gear, mods, electronics. This is how you lvl up your player, otherwise whats the point of playing a MMO. Any good MMO the longer you play the better your stats a/o gear are supposed to be. I come from DCUO which is almost two years old and new players come in all the time, they all say the same thing "I can't beat the older players" "they players who were here since it started are to far ahead of me" This is just the way of any MMO, the longer and longer you play the greater the distance you get from a starting player to a Vet player. But if you work hard and get help and play right you should get close to those Vet players. Many mmos that have expansions, will use those to help everyone not get to far ahead of each other, the time before an expansion is the time to catch up to the other players, then when expansion comes out they work towards new goals for skills. Do you guys not get this part? Do you not understand this is a MMOFPS, really the first of its kind. So get used to this sorta thing, its going to be the norm soon enough. Tony, amongst others have a VERY big problem with there being MMO aspect sin this game. Seriously, do a search and he's systematically complained about and demanded the removal of pretty much EVERY aspect of this game that isn't pure FPS. It's part of a concerted attempt to turn DUST 514 into MAG 2.0 We call them MAGgots, but in a loving way. Conspiracy theory tbh. There are ways to balance mmopvp. In WoW for example they only allow players of equal levels to play against each other. lvl 10 to lvl 20 plays against each and so on. If there is going to be this much of a difference in how good proto gear is over militia gear then we might need to separate the lobbies. Of course we can't do that right now. There wouldn't be many people in the proto lobbies atm but this would be a great idea come release time. Group the lobbies based on how much SP people have. Actually a lot of players, myself included wont be in the same playing area as the newer players. We will be in High and Low secs and wont really play each other. Also some MMO's dont separate out players of different lvl's. If you que for something like PvP (Corp vs Corp) then you need to bring your A-game. But I expect only the good corps to be doing this. Also they will have PvE for new players to get better skill points in to help them out. It doesn't matter what you are going to be doing. That fact of the matter is that there will be people in proto gear farming on noobs in the noob game modes and potentially driving away a large portion of the player base because of the imbalance.
Aaron Atreides 140	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:41:00 - [68] - Quote [/quote] It doesn't matter what you are going to be doing. That fact of the matter is that there will be people in proto gear farming on noobs in the noob game modes and potentially driving away a large portion of the player base because of the imbalance.[/quote] A few things about this, if there is a player with Proto gear going around killing new players then they are worthless players in the first place. There will also be Proto players on your team, have them go hunting for the other proto player. Or do like we do, call out that player, anyone sees them you send hunters to go frag that guy. Its not hard to do.. You are worrying about the new players of a MMOFPS, if you play this game then you will progress and get better and better. I hate to say it but you can't worry about them, you need to worry about yourself and your corp. Thats it!! I come from DCUO and Vets play noobs every single day, do they whine and QQ about it, nope not one bit. They understand and so will our new players that this is MMO and you need to work to get better gear. This is not COD or BF or MAG, stop thinking that it is. If a player leaves and wont come back because of a few battles with guys with better gear or weapons, then good those were not the players we wanted to play this soon to be great game. Look I know all of you FPS kids think this is BS, but for MMO players this is just the normal setup we all go through, your imagining what its going to be like, but really you have no idea yet. Remember this is only 10% of the game so far..
Quiverous Dark Harlequin 37	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:18:00 - [69] - Quote I disagree with the OP. Dust is an MMOFPS, moreover it raises the bar for the entire genre. I came here straight from my pod and found myself getting my ass handed to me on a regular, no constant basis. Kill ratio 0.28, so much for skills. My friend joins the fray from CoD and immediately gets a Kill ratio of 2.3, natural player skill wins the day. The story doesn't end there he and I discuss fittings and the effect of skills. End of the second weekned he's on 6.7. Skills + player skill = Win. I doubt I'll ever be great at Dust but with practice I'll improve. I have the time, took me 6 years to fail at eve I'll pencil in Dust for the next 6.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:31:00 - [70] - Quote [/quote]A few things about this, if there is a player with Proto gear going around killing new players then they are worthless players in the first place. There will also be Proto players on your team, have them go hunting for the other proto player. Or do like we do, call out that player, anyone sees them you send hunters to go frag that guy. Its not hard to do.. You are worrying about the new players of a MMOFPS, if you play this game then you will progress and get better and better. I hate to say it but you can't worry about them, you need to worry about yourself and your corp. Thats it!! I come from DCUO and Vets play noobs every single day, do they whine and QQ about it, nope not one bit. They understand and so will our new players that this is MMO and you need to work to get better gear. This is not COD or BF or MAG, stop thinking that it is. If a player leaves and wont come back because of a few battles with guys with better gear or weapons, then good those were not the players we wanted to play this soon to be great game. Look I know all of you FPS kids think this is BS, but for MMO players this is just the normal setup we all go through, your imagining what its going to be like, but really you have no idea yet. Remember this is only 10% of the game so far..[/quote] __________________________________________ Nice stereotypes bro. First off I am not a kid. Second, I have put 1000s of hours into MMOs. I know how they work. You are forgetting that this is a console game and as a beta tester we are trying to figure what works best and eliminate the things that will drive away the console players away. I have also put 1000s of hours into console fps. I know how they work and I know what it takes to make a successful fps. (I have beta tested countless fps games.) So will you all stop crying when we give feedback for this game that is obviously broken atm. Honestly I don't even see why you should care if you are going to be playing in high sec and your not farming noobs. Group lobbies based on how many SP people have and this will eliminate a the huge imbalance within the game. Why wouldn't you want that? do you want this game to fail?

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:03:00 - [71] - Quote Aaron Atreides wrote: I come from DCUO and Vets play noobs every single day, do they whine and QQ about it, nope not one bit. They understand and so will our new players that this is MMO and you need to work to get better gear. Actually, a large amount of them DO whine, but everyone else, including developers, points out, "well that was your fault for going PvP, wasn't it?" because there's a PvE phase that you can swap into (or start off in) if you don't want high-level players murdering you constantly. And I'm pretty sure that, as I mentioned in my post, HighSec will have protections of some form in play to reduce the threat of high-powered players going into noob-stomping matches. But if you go into NullSec with Militia gear, you should EXPECT harsh treatment. Same thing for LowSec, but to a lesser extent.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:04:00 - [72] - Quote Also using DC as an example is so dumb considering that game was a steaming pile of ****.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:23:00 - [73] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Also using DC as an example is so dumb considering that game was a steaming pile of ****. It's actually not bad on PS3. You played it on PC, didn't you? Poor thing...
Patrick Dubeau 0	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:27:00 - [74] - Quote Boooyaaa Finaly a MMO FPS on PS3
Patrick Dubeau 0	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:31:00 - [75] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: Also using DC as an example is so dumb considering that game was a steaming pile of ****. It's actually not bad on PS3. You played it on PC, didn't you? Poor thing... Not bad?!?!? u have to be joking... with all their updated u can boost a NEW character to 73 CR in about 2 days... then buy some replay badges and do Gates for Marks of war... what a boring game... only thing that makes it a bit fun is building up your SP... but doing the same things everyday over and over gets pretty boring
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:42:00 - [76] - Quote Patrick Dubeau wrote: Not bad?!?!? u have to be joking... with all their updated u can boost a NEW character to 73 CR in about 2 days... then buy some replay badges and do Gates for Marks of war... what a boring game... only thing that makes it a bit fun is building up your SP... but doing the same things everyday over and over gets pretty boring Haven't played it much at all since they introduced CR, to be honest. It may have changed enough that it's not what I remember any more. I needed the HDD space for other things, and was running on only 60GB. But I mostly enjoyed open-world PvP anyway, so shortening the grind doesn't worry me at all.


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