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Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 01:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
I propose a new weapon/missile type in EVE, call it a boarding craft.
When launched it is effectively a ship that autopilots to the target it was 'fired at'.
If the boarding craft is not destroyed, it latches onto the hull of the enemy ship and cuts open the hull.
Now comes the DUST 514 part.
The boarding craft is loaded with mercs you've hired who are playing DUST 514.
The boarding party then fights on a map in DUST 514, a ship map, against the defenders on the ship (automated drones and NPCs by default, perhaps upgradeable, or mercs hired by the pilot of the ship to defend it.
If the boarding party 'wins' the map, the ship is captured or destroyed depending on the level of success/time taken.
Of course the pilot could self-destruct, or the ship might be destroyed while the boarders fight to capture it.
In that case the match ends early in a huge explosion, and you respawn in the next boarding craft, ready to launch again. |
Mock Five
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 02:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
I like this idea and ship capts would hire mercs to defend or attack other ships with some type of reward towards the ship attacker if succesful but nothing to big, it would be silly and unfair if the ship was destoryed because of this maybe it would just have a small to mediuam loss to the ship, like maybe they go in to take out a turrent or certain generator that degrades the ship or something.
Somone asked this question at EVEfest or something, and they did not seem to have any plans for this ATM or have any plans for it but maybe now that it has been demanded somewhat they will consider it in the future but I like the idea, I really do. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 02:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
I want this
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Some mechanism could be thought of to disable the enemy capsuleer's neural control over his ship, rendering the self destruct option inept. A corporation notices an awesome enemy ship carrying valuable cargo, they engage it in combat until its weakened to a point where one of them can deploy something that severs the pilot's control, put out a contract to mercs to raid the ship for its goods (and maybe to steal the ship itself instead of destroying it), and the person being invaded by Dust bunnies hires some mercs of his own to help defend his ship. In 20 minutes or so, the capsuleer of the boarded ship will regain control of his ship and escape/self destruct; this could be the time limit. I have never played EVE and this is just off the top of my head (and probably very flawed), but I think CCP can think of a way to make it make sense, and use it as a way to add even more depth and connection between Dust and EVE.
I want this too |
Ayures0
259
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 02:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
No. |
Squiddie Squish
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
87
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 02:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
while it sounds like it would be fun .. it would actually be game breaking for eve .. also a ship to ship fight in eve takes tens of seconds not 20 mins.. i would very much like something like this for sov of player owned stations. |
Mock Five
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 02:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Squiddie Squish wrote:while it sounds like it would be fun .. it would actually be game breaking for eve .. although i would very much like something like this for sov of player owned stations.
Although this seems like a game breaking mechanic, I mentioned above that the Dust mercs boarding the ships and being succesful in there goal would do minimal damage or degrading to the ship it would not determine how the pilot wins but more of a slight advantage to the attacking team.
Just like how the system will be now, although mercs contribute to taking over planets it's more of the eve players doing it the mercs just slightly help *Unless it's planets dust players can take over for themselves*
I think it could work aslong as it's not life and death deciding and does not have major impact to the ship gameplay.
Aslong as it's a minimal but slightly helpful opition for ship's I think it's a great idea. Player owned stations :]
Also I am more referring to the larger ships, I do not have much knowledge on EVE but I beleive there are these bigger ships in the major ship battles that are larger and take a while to takedown? I could be wrong but hey |
Entruv
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 02:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Squiddie Squish wrote:while it sounds like it would be fun .. it would actually be game breaking for eve .. also a ship to ship fight in eve takes tens of seconds not 20 mins.. i would very much like something like this for sov of player owned stations.
Adapt or die amrite? |
Minmatar Slave 74136
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 06:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
A juicy target for a boarding action would be an enemy POS (space station) or NPC station if used in faction warfare. Such as an example where, if a station is put into reinforced mode, the attacking eve corp can opt to try to send in dust marines on a contract to capture rather than destroy it. - or something like that. |
Wako 75
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
76
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 07:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Make it like pretty much the small game type |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 09:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
The more integration the better I say. |
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Drommy Hood
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
242
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 09:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Minmatar Slave 74136 wrote:A juicy target for a boarding action would be an enemy POS (space station) or NPC station if used in faction warfare. Such as an example where, if a station is put into reinforced mode, the attacking eve corp can opt to try to send in dust marines on a contract to capture rather than destroy it. - or something like that.
It's a cool idea but as the defending alliance, would I rather pay for a dust merc crew to duke it out to see if you can capture my pos that I paid for, or let it be destroyed instead |
Danfen Stark
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 09:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
It 'would' be nice to have...as long as it doesnt 'capture' or 'destroy' the ship, but as you say, gives the ship some negative traits (slower speed, longer reload, perhaps longer 'warp-up' time?). Having it give the ability to destroy ships without any input from the pilot at all would be game breaking...it'd be kinda like having orbital bombardments in Dust but no way for you guys to fire back at us
But, I honestly don't see it working anyway, apart from with super-caps (super carriers & Titans), simply just due to how fast ships can die in the game (usually looking at 30 seconds max each in big fleet fights...carriers possibly up to a 10 minutes max depending. Super capitals can last a while though). No FC would also want to draw resources away from primary targets either just for the sake of either capturing easily obtainable (for an alliance) ships.
So yeah, the only use I'd see it having would be to capture super carriers....But then theres the issue of 'no one' knowing when they'll be fielded. They usualyl get fielded from an escalation of arms (small fleet fight gets bigger, until one side brings out capitals, resulting the other one to, and so on). Either that, or one side brings them out and the other side conserves it's reservers, meaning it's a one sided fight anyway. In either point, no side will bring the 'boarding crafts' and the cost of another weapon system, simply as the name of the game is bringing more firepower than the other side
So yes, I 'like' the idea if it provides negative affects to the enemy ship (so no capture/destroy), or the pilot has a method of defending his ship that doesn't have the battle be one sided....but I still don't see it being practical from an EVE point in large fleet fights. The only time I 'could' see it being used is in pirate gate camps in low-sec, but they probably wouldnt bother as they'll have gate guns shooting them up at the same time (so little time to offer ransoms). Possibly asteroid belts....but who would want to capture a mining barge ? |
John Surratt
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 11:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Time differences in the games alone would make this not work, but I'd purely love to see it in outpost or POS bashing as a means to speed/change up the structure shooting grind. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
^ That post. Ship-to-ship wouldn't work. |
steadyhand 08 orti
Doomheim
43
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 15:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
player owned stations yes, ship-to-ship would be very diffcult unless you had players allready on standby for the battle, getting 20 people in one place is hard enough in real life let alone getting FPS players to stick to some kind of plan or react quickly |
Mock Five
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 20:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Danfen Stark wrote:It 'would' be nice to have...as long as it doesnt 'capture' or 'destroy' the ship, but as you say, gives the ship some negative traits (slower speed, longer reload, perhaps longer 'warp-up' time?). Having it give the ability to destroy ships without any input from the pilot at all would be game breaking...it'd be kinda like having orbital bombardments in Dust but no way for you guys to fire back at us But, I honestly don't see it working anyway, apart from with super-caps (super carriers & Titans), simply just due to how fast ships can die in the game (usually looking at 30 seconds max each in big fleet fights...carriers possibly up to a 10 minutes max depending. Super capitals can last a while though). No FC would also want to draw resources away from primary targets either just for the sake of either capturing easily obtainable (for an alliance) ships. So yeah, the only use I'd see it having would be to capture super carriers....But then theres the issue of 'no one' knowing when they'll be fielded. They usualyl get fielded from an escalation of arms (small fleet fight gets bigger, until one side brings out capitals, resulting the other one to, and so on). Either that, or one side brings them out and the other side conserves it's reservers, meaning it's a one sided fight anyway. In either point, no side will bring the 'boarding crafts' and the cost of another weapon system, simply as the name of the game is bringing more firepower than the other side So yes, I 'like' the idea if it provides negative affects to the enemy ship (so no capture/destroy), or the pilot has a method of defending his ship that doesn't have the battle be one sided....but I still don't see it being practical from an EVE point in large fleet fights. The only time I 'could' see it being used is in pirate gate camps in low-sec, but they probably wouldnt bother as they'll have gate guns shooting them up at the same time (so little time to offer ransoms). Possibly asteroid belts....but who would want to capture a mining barge ?
Exactly what I was trying to say, perhaps it could only occur on super carriers or capitals. The problem seems to be how to get mercs all organized for this? easy? You put a contract out and people can accept it and etc or maybe if there in your corp even it could show up on the right upper corner as a important request/contract to corp members. |
Sojuro Ryo
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
189
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 20:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP has already stated that there will be no combat in stations when they presented Walking in Stations. And they have stated they would like to have it so mercs can meet up with potential clients in bars and such face to face. So all in all, no combat in stations. |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 20:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sojuro Ryo wrote:CCP has already stated that there will be no combat in stations when they presented Walking in Stations. And they have stated they would like to have it so mercs can meet up with potential clients in bars and such face to face. So all in all, no combat in stations.
Yeah, I believe everything they have ever said about walking in stations too TROLOLOL
|
Danfen Stark
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 20:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mock Five wrote:
Exactly what I was trying to say, perhaps it could only occur on super carriers or capitals. The problem seems to be how to get mercs all organized for this? easy? You put a contract out and people can accept it and etc or maybe if there in your corp even it could show up on the right upper corner as a important request/contract to corp members.
That would be the problem though, on the EVE side. 'When' does the EVE player set the contract...
Preperation for battles can take anywhere from 10 minutes - 2 hours. Then there is the fact that no one 'knows' if supers will be fielded. So, a contract 'could' be made in advance. But then Dust players could be waiting for quite litteraly ages, only to be let down with not being needed. Or, it 'could' be made when a super is first sighted. Then the EVE players will have to wait for the contract to be 'filled'. Then they'll have to get in to position, then fire the weapon/shuttle. Then wait for this to reach the super.
All of this as well, while hoping that a. The super isn't primaried/destroyed before hand. B. the super doesn't jump out before hand. C. the boarding shuttle isn't destroyed mid flight (this is the only way I could think of that EVE players could counter it).
All three, which are very likely scenerios, could result in a lot of Dust mercs being dissapointed with a lot of time wasted, which could quickly result in this feature becomming unused & a waste
& then lets say that the mercs 'do' reach it, in time, with no problems. Everyone on the EVE side of things will then be sitting there waiting for the outcome.
So again, a nice idea...but I honestly can not think of a way that it could be practical, where just blowing up the super will be a much more effortless & painless affair. |
TEBOW BAGGINS
FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET
549
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 20:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
considering 1 cruiser (second smallest ship class) would be the size or bigger than communications ambush it would be a rather huge developement endeavor... |
|
Necrotizer Bloodmist
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 21:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:considering 1 cruiser (second smallest ship class) would be the size or bigger than communications ambush it would be a rather huge developement endeavor...
I don't play EVE, but since ships are piloted by one person, I don't imagine they would need to have that much traversable space for people to walk around in, thus only a small fraction could be the map. |
Mock Five
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 21:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Danfen Stark wrote:Mock Five wrote:
Exactly what I was trying to say, perhaps it could only occur on super carriers or capitals. The problem seems to be how to get mercs all organized for this? easy? You put a contract out and people can accept it and etc or maybe if there in your corp even it could show up on the right upper corner as a important request/contract to corp members.
That would be the problem though, on the EVE side. 'When' does the EVE player set the contract... Preperation for battles can take anywhere from 10 minutes - 2 hours. Then there is the fact that no one 'knows' if supers will be fielded. So, a contract 'could' be made in advance. But then Dust players could be waiting for quite litteraly ages, only to be let down with not being needed. Or, it 'could' be made when a super is first sighted. Then the EVE players will have to wait for the contract to be 'filled'. Then they'll have to get in to position, then fire the weapon/shuttle. Then wait for this to reach the super. All of this as well, while hoping that a. The super isn't primaried/destroyed before hand. B. the super doesn't jump out before hand. C. the boarding shuttle isn't destroyed mid flight (this is the only way I could think of that EVE players could counter it). All three, which are very likely scenerios, could result in a lot of Dust mercs being dissapointed with a lot of time wasted, which could quickly result in this feature becomming unused & a waste & then lets say that the mercs 'do' reach it, in time, with no problems. Everyone on the EVE side of things will then be sitting there waiting for the outcome. So again, a nice idea...but I honestly can not think of a way that it could be practical, where just blowing up the super will be a much more effortless & painless affair.
Perhaps they could be on contract beforehand and will be teleported when requested. Kind of like you know how your waiting for a game in battle finder but you can walk around and do stuff maybe the same concept except you can also be teleported out of non important game if you choose to accept the contract, But again I have barley played EVE and really have no idea how hard it would be unless I truley played it and understood it fully. I just like being involved in the EVE universe more I mean that's what is making the game so unqie right now, I just hope they can immerse us more other then stations and being able to communicate with eve players. |
Bresker Veyne
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
152
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 21:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Have you even played EvE?
While the idea in itself sounds cool, the influence that Dust players have on EVE would be far to great. There's no way in hell I want my expensive ship being boarded by a couple of DUST players, only to have it defended by a couple of angry kids who have their thumbs up their asses.
|
ROIZENGH
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 21:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
I vote for this, while yes we dust player should not be the only variable on the win/lose outcome more like a point system i don't know how the Eve universe really works but i dig this kind of integration as @Umallon Macross said "The more integration the better I say." |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 21:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bresker Veyne wrote:Have you even played EvE?
While the idea in itself sounds cool, the influence that Dust players have on EVE would be far to great. There's no way in hell I want my expensive ship being boarded by a couple of DUST players, only to have it defended by a couple of angry kids who have their thumbs up their asses.
Boarding could be an option for a ship that is so weakened that its about to be destroyed anyway, but instead of an eve player destroying it, they hire mercs to steal it and its contents. |
Bresker Veyne
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
152
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 22:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Bresker Veyne wrote:Have you even played EvE?
While the idea in itself sounds cool, the influence that Dust players have on EVE would be far to great. There's no way in hell I want my expensive ship being boarded by a couple of DUST players, only to have it defended by a couple of angry kids who have their thumbs up their asses.
Boarding could be an option for a ship that is so weakened that its about to be destroyed anyway, but instead of an eve player destroying it, they hire mercs to steal it and its contents.
Have you played EVE yourself? I really think you should at least play EVE a while before you come up with ideas to merge the two games.
You should know that once a normal ship (frigate to battleship) hits hull damage, it wouldn't take long for it to blow up. The matchmaking between EVE and DUST would have ot be out of this world for it to work. But even if that were still possible, it wouldn't be fair to the EVE player. EVE is more about planning out your skills and searching for the best fit. It's more about numbers really. When you lose your ship, it should be because you failed by EVE standards, not DUST ones.
DUST players are mercaneries. They get paid by giant corporations and rich capsuleers that fly around in EVE. Not all EVE players should be forced to use mercenaries. Let EVE players fight against each other, a bombardment from the sky or a cannon attacking ships would be nice. But entering is just too much. |
Hawk Von Draum
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 23:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Umallon Macross wrote:I propose a new weapon/missile type in EVE, call it a boarding craft.
When launched it is effectively a ship that autopilots to the target it was 'fired at'.
If the boarding craft is not destroyed, it latches onto the hull of the enemy ship and cuts open the hull.
Now comes the DUST 514 part.
The boarding craft is loaded with mercs you've hired who are playing DUST 514.
The boarding party then fights on a map in DUST 514, a ship map, against the defenders on the ship (automated drones and NPCs by default, perhaps upgradeable, or mercs hired by the pilot of the ship to defend it.
If the boarding party 'wins' the map, the ship is captured or destroyed depending on the level of success/time taken.
Of course the pilot could self-destruct, or the ship might be destroyed while the boarders fight to capture it.
In that case the match ends early in a huge explosion, and you respawn in the next boarding craft, ready to launch again.
That'd be awesome! |
John Surratt
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 00:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sojuro Ryo wrote:CCP has already stated that there will be no combat in stations when they presented Walking in Stations. And they have stated they would like to have it so mercs can meet up with potential clients in bars and such face to face. So all in all, no combat in stations.
Yes, I can see no combat in the shared games space of the "WiS/ambulation/Incarna/whatever" areas. . . and yeah I seem to remember "no combat" being mentioned before. . .
. . .but that being said, there's be no reason not to have a "station map" in DUST for mercs to duke it out on to advance or slow down a POS or outpost timer. Imagine being able to hire mercs to change the reinforce timer by a few hours, or to advance to the next stage or over turn a reinforce. . .
Imagine the shared WiS space as, say looking kinda like the the Mall of America (thinking og the Jita 4-4 story) crossed with the CQ .. . and the "combat station map" as the utility corridors behind the stores in the Mall of America crossed with the CQ. . .
Personally, I think it would add a lot to both games.
I keep thinking back to some of the CJ Cherryh books describing space combat and station combat. . . both the Chanur series and the Alliance-Union series. . . |
Zeekoh
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 00:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
As has been mentioned already, ship battles in EVE usually end in a few seconds to a few minutes as far as an individual ship being attacked goes. The EVE players would have to completely incapacitate the enemy ship and make it so that they can't move or even fire weapons (having to sit and tank damage from the ship or chance it getting away isn't a bright idea...), which would defeat the purpose of sending Mercs in for anything but to take the ship or destroy it (EDIT - or steal cargo?). The pilot could always just self destruct as well, killing all on board.
At this point in my theory it's almost pointless to add this functionality to EVE, as far as boarding other player's ships goes. I like the idea about boarding stations though. Having space/space station warfare would be pretty cool.
EDIT - Plus, unless things have changed in EVE since I played, most player flown ships are only populated by the person flying the ship and maybe a few drones. Everything is controlled from the pilot's pod. It wouldn't be all that fun from an FPS perspective. Jumping on Dust to play and you choose a ship contract and then board the ship and have nothing to shoot at but a few defenseless drones that were never meant to perform in combat. At best it would be considered more of a race to get to whatever your objective is before the pilot blows the ship up. |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 02:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Danfen Stark wrote:Mock Five wrote:
Exactly what I was trying to say, perhaps it could only occur on super carriers or capitals. The problem seems to be how to get mercs all organized for this? easy? You put a contract out and people can accept it and etc or maybe if there in your corp even it could show up on the right upper corner as a important request/contract to corp members.
That would be the problem though, on the EVE side. 'When' does the EVE player set the contract... Preperation for battles can take anywhere from 10 minutes - 2 hours. Then there is the fact that no one 'knows' if supers will be fielded. So, a contract 'could' be made in advance. But then Dust players could be waiting for quite litteraly ages, only to be let down with not being needed. Or, it 'could' be made when a super is first sighted. Then the EVE players will have to wait for the contract to be 'filled'. Then they'll have to get in to position, then fire the weapon/shuttle. Then wait for this to reach the super. All of this as well, while hoping that a. The super isn't primaried/destroyed before hand. B. the super doesn't jump out before hand. C. the boarding shuttle isn't destroyed mid flight (this is the only way I could think of that EVE players could counter it). All three, which are very likely scenerios, could result in a lot of Dust mercs being dissapointed with a lot of time wasted, which could quickly result in this feature becomming unused & a waste & then lets say that the mercs 'do' reach it, in time, with no problems. Everyone on the EVE side of things will then be sitting there waiting for the outcome. So again, a nice idea...but I honestly can not think of a way that it could be practical, where just blowing up the super will be a much more effortless & painless affair.
There would be a 'launcher' or 'fleet battle' lobby, where you could look for active 'launchers'. You activate your launcher module to add your launcher to the lobby.
Once you have Dust players coming into the room the module indicates that its ready to fire.
Fire boarding craft!
Boarding craft takes (lets say) 20 seconds.
If it makes it, it starts the match for the Dust players.
If it doesnt, they have to wait 25 seconds while it reloads and re-fires.
If the ship the boarders are on gets blown up, then the map explodes, and the boarding party gets boosted SP as compensation *they did assist after all in taking down the ship), and are returned to the launcher waiting room for the next launch. |
|
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 02:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bresker Veyne wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Bresker Veyne wrote:Have you even played EvE?
While the idea in itself sounds cool, the influence that Dust players have on EVE would be far to great. There's no way in hell I want my expensive ship being boarded by a couple of DUST players, only to have it defended by a couple of angry kids who have their thumbs up their asses.
Boarding could be an option for a ship that is so weakened that its about to be destroyed anyway, but instead of an eve player destroying it, they hire mercs to steal it and its contents. Have you played EVE yourself? I really think you should at least play EVE a while before you come up with ideas to merge the two games. You should know that once a normal ship (frigate to battleship) hits hull damage, it wouldn't take long for it to blow up. The matchmaking between EVE and DUST would have ot be out of this world for it to work. But even if that were still possible, it wouldn't be fair to the EVE player. EVE is more about planning out your skills and searching for the best fit. It's more about numbers really. When you lose your ship, it should be because you failed by EVE standards, not DUST ones. DUST players are mercaneries. They get paid by giant corporations and rich capsuleers that fly around in EVE. Not all EVE players should be forced to use mercenaries. Let EVE players fight against each other, a bombardment from the sky or a cannon attacking ships would be nice. But entering is just too much.
Capsuleers would have module options to combat this new tactic. Perhaps a new item slot for ships, like 'internal security' modules, that dictate whether you hire mercs, or have npcs, and the difficulty of the map.
|
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 02:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
I had another idea, you could have the boarding maps be 'destroy the capsuleer' maps, and you can podkill the capsuleer inside his own ship! |
General Zarkaithnia
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 02:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
That idea is so sick :D. It could be like the Space Pirates from Metroid Prime and how they board GF vessels xD |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 06:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
I'd like to see some zero-gravity fighting on the hulls of ships/stations also. |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 06:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
From the chronicle hands of a killer
Quote:Four months later, Daren Athaksis was confirmed as one of six-thousand three-hundred and fourteen reported casualties resulting from the destruction of the Apocalypse-class battleship "Dam-Imud." His post was filled within three days. His family was not notified. |
Minmatar Slave 74136
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 07:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
carl von oppenheimer wrote:From the chronicle hands of a killerQuote:Four months later, Daren Athaksis was confirmed as one of six-thousand three-hundred and fourteen reported casualties resulting from the destruction of the Apocalypse-class battleship "Dam-Imud." His post was filled within three days. His family was not notified.
This.
Several lore references that EVE ships do actually have crewmen aboard - not as many as older designs (non-pod) but there nonetheless to handle the functions that drones or the podpilot could not. Larger ships, of course, have much larger crews up to in the thousands for a Titan class vessel (The Gallente Erebus Titan is 14 kilometers long and masses in at 2,379,370 metric tons) |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 07:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
Frigates have one pod pilet, or half dozen or so normal humans, capital ships still have thousands on board.
If boarding required damage into hull, it would be a matter of how much the boarding side gains, same loss to the loser. Just have the self-destruct only eject pilot if boarded. The ship blows if dust team fails. only thing that could be practically boarded would be capitals, pos, and ships caught in gate camps the pirates think is worth risk to keep tackled and in structure(hard to do, but some campers would probably try) Boarding could be a citadel torp. ammo, or a "bomb" launched by stealth bomber, both already have hp to be shot in flight.
Dust players for boarding parties would likely have a long wait. Gate camping pirates could dual box to board themselves, since the camping takes little effort. Large corp/alliance fights where capitals/pos could be captured would just have a small team of dust mercs on standby, members of the corp/alliance most likely. The rare times FW would go after a dread, the battle would take some time and some FW dust players would probably be willing to wait 20min standby for the chance at a match that could pay many tens of million isk to each player.
I could definitively see pirates boarding a unarmed freighter if they caught one in a gate camp. The increased profit from capturing the cargo intact would be worth the hassle, plus the value of the ship itself.
Probably something that could be the main feature of future eve/dust expansion. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 09:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
DUST Mercs board EVE ship. Someone else blows up EVE ship. Everyone dies.
Or...
DUST Mercs board ship. Ship gets captured by DUST Mercs.
The first option means they take control of events in DUST away from the players in DUST. This is bad for DUST. The second option means that control of events in EVE is being taken from EVE players. This is bad for EVE.
Nobody in either game should feel like they CAN'T COMPETE against others who are using the other game.
And while DUST players are referred to as Mercenaries, I think it needs to be mentioned that player corporations across both DUST and EVE are going to be interchangeable - DUST players will have their own corporations, and corps created by either side will be able to recruit members in both games. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 09:58:00 -
[39] - Quote
^
Allowing mercs to board EVE ships, frankly, isn't practical for either game. The lore behind EVE ships is that capsuleers, by themselves, can command any ship with minimal space for life support, living quarters, etc as they need only a minimal crew. The "capsule" itself allows the capsuleer to command any ship virtually by himself, and renders him effectively "at one" with the ship. If a capsuleer needs none of that space, he can fill it with extra modules, or cargo, or whatever. This means that there would be hardly any space for a dust merc to board or fight. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
788
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 10:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
Like said above, this simply won't work. It's a nice idea, but it is merely a pipe dream with no practical possibility :( |
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Nellantar Ballsinya
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
175
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 11:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Like said above, this simply won't work. It's a nice idea, but it is merely a pipe dream with no practical possibility :(
Right, the average EVE timeframe for a fight is just too quick. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 12:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
I will self destruct, jettision my pod, kill you all in 1 move and win the match and claim all the rewards |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 18:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
Besides for it to be fair, both sides would have to put equal resources on the attempt. A titan takes 2 months (minimum) to build and costs 75bil for hull alone with 30bil put to fittings and roughly 20bil to implants for the pilot.
Now unless something drastically changes there will never be anything in DUST that would equal with putting 2 months of waiting in RL time (which can be destroyed while being built btw. !!) and would cost you 120billion in ISK to lose. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 18:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Would PVE enemies of EVE make good targets for boarding? |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
screw MTCs or whatever i wanna board a ship and be a space marine. |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
Need to start with outpost boarding. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Like said above, this simply won't work. It's a nice idea, but it is merely a pipe dream with no practical possibility :(
as much as you want to be a dev you are not nova knife. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
Laheon wrote:^
Allowing mercs to board EVE ships, frankly, isn't practical for either game. The lore behind EVE ships is that capsuleers, by themselves, can command any ship with minimal space for life support, living quarters, etc as they need only a minimal crew. The "capsule" itself allows the capsuleer to command any ship virtually by himself, and renders him effectively "at one" with the ship. If a capsuleer needs none of that space, he can fill it with extra modules, or cargo, or whatever. This means that there would be hardly any space for a dust merc to board or fight.
so a titan is only flown by 1 person, ok. what about all the lights and decks are they for the 1 person the however many kilometer ship, 1 person? |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Need to start with outpost boarding.
64 likes? really? |
Zander Rodriguez
41
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Not ships but dust battles on space stations may be a better idea. |
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Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:Laheon wrote:^
Allowing mercs to board EVE ships, frankly, isn't practical for either game. The lore behind EVE ships is that capsuleers, by themselves, can command any ship with minimal space for life support, living quarters, etc as they need only a minimal crew. The "capsule" itself allows the capsuleer to command any ship virtually by himself, and renders him effectively "at one" with the ship. If a capsuleer needs none of that space, he can fill it with extra modules, or cargo, or whatever. This means that there would be hardly any space for a dust merc to board or fight. so a titan is only flown by 1 person, ok. what about all the lights and decks are they for the 1 person the however many kilometer ship, 1 person?
Just because one person is in a pod doesnt mean the rest of the ship is deserted. This is indicated in the novels, as well as on EVElopedia. Depending on the faction and ship size, there are various support crews. The beginning of the Empyrean Age novel starts with an infiltrator on an Amarr ship, with the crew reacting.
For the time being however, boarding ships isnt practical. What needs to happen though, to give that CQB feel, is to make it mandatory for an eve alliance to take a station/outpost, would require the use of DUST mercs to gain entry and take objectives. Otherwise, the only option is to destroy the station, somethign eve players have been begging for, opening the option to punative conquests. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:EnIgMa99 wrote:Laheon wrote:^
Allowing mercs to board EVE ships, frankly, isn't practical for either game. The lore behind EVE ships is that capsuleers, by themselves, can command any ship with minimal space for life support, living quarters, etc as they need only a minimal crew. The "capsule" itself allows the capsuleer to command any ship virtually by himself, and renders him effectively "at one" with the ship. If a capsuleer needs none of that space, he can fill it with extra modules, or cargo, or whatever. This means that there would be hardly any space for a dust merc to board or fight. so a titan is only flown by 1 person, ok. what about all the lights and decks are they for the 1 person the however many kilometer ship, 1 person? Just because one person is in a pod doesnt mean the rest of the ship is deserted. This is indicated in the novels, as well as on EVElopedia. Depending on the faction and ship size, there are various support crews. The beginning of the Empyrean Age novel starts with an infiltrator on an Amarr ship, with the crew reacting. For the time being however, boarding ships isnt practical. What needs to happen though, to give that CQB feel, is to make it mandatory for an eve alliance to take a station/outpost, would require the use of DUST mercs to gain entry and take objectives. Otherwise, the only option is to destroy the station, somethign eve players have been begging for, opening the option to punative conquests.
man arnt you the hero on the K/D leader board with 14 kills, man wonder how you did that? |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:EnIgMa99 wrote:Laheon wrote:^
Allowing mercs to board EVE ships, frankly, isn't practical for either game. The lore behind EVE ships is that capsuleers, by themselves, can command any ship with minimal space for life support, living quarters, etc as they need only a minimal crew. The "capsule" itself allows the capsuleer to command any ship virtually by himself, and renders him effectively "at one" with the ship. If a capsuleer needs none of that space, he can fill it with extra modules, or cargo, or whatever. This means that there would be hardly any space for a dust merc to board or fight. so a titan is only flown by 1 person, ok. what about all the lights and decks are they for the 1 person the however many kilometer ship, 1 person? Just because one person is in a pod doesnt mean the rest of the ship is deserted. This is indicated in the novels, as well as on EVElopedia. Depending on the faction and ship size, there are various support crews. The beginning of the Empyrean Age novel starts with an infiltrator on an Amarr ship, with the crew reacting. For the time being however, boarding ships isnt practical. What needs to happen though, to give that CQB feel, is to make it mandatory for an eve alliance to take a station/outpost, would require the use of DUST mercs to gain entry and take objectives. Otherwise, the only option is to destroy the station, somethign eve players have been begging for, opening the option to punative conquests. man arnt you the hero on the K/D leader board with 14 kills, man wonder how you did that?
progod skills, progod skills.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
like this should be feasable since both games can make real time transactions that directly affect each other ingame |
John Surratt
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 06:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:
Just because one person is in a pod doesnt mean the rest of the ship is deserted. This is indicated in the novels, as well as on EVElopedia. Depending on the faction and ship size, there are various support crews. The beginning of the Empyrean Age novel starts with an infiltrator on an Amarr ship, with the crew reacting.
For the time being however, boarding ships isnt practical. What needs to happen though, to give that CQB feel, is to make it mandatory for an eve alliance to take a station/outpost, would require the use of DUST mercs to gain entry and take objectives. Otherwise, the only option is to destroy the station, somethign eve players have been begging for, opening the option to punative conquests.
Oh god, there's brilliant idea. . . make an outpost's destruction tie into DUST. . I fricking love it. Contracts to flip stations or to blow them up (after suitable EVE side grind & fights). . .Or better yet, a merc contract to keep the station from being blown up when you grind through shields & armor, and allow the agressor to capture it intact instead of it blowing up. . .
It also allows for an aggressor or defender to practice "scorched earth" tactics, the whole "you ain't gonna dock there again." |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 07:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Great ideas everyone, keep them coming. I won't be happy until I can fight in Dust while watching real ships blowing each other up out the window. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 08:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
My immediate reaction is that losing a ship outright to Dust players would be a pretty terrible thing. But, then, it is EVE. I don't know, maybe smaller ships (battleships) could be destroyed outright, but anything larger really ought to simply experience penalties of some kind. It would just be really frustrating to lose your ship to something you can't really defend against at all. Yeah yeah, adapt or die, blah blah. Still.
Otherwise though I really like the idea and I'm sure we've all been hoping this'd show up on the roadmap sometime. Boarding actions would be pretty awesome, intense fights.
Another consideration: How long does the average Dust game take, vs. the average EVE fight? What are the odds that a particular fight would still be going by the time your Dust boarders actually started doing damage to the ship you fired them into? |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 09:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:My immediate reaction is that losing a ship outright to Dust players would be a pretty terrible thing. But, then, it is EVE. I don't know, maybe smaller ships (battleships) could be destroyed outright, but anything larger really ought to simply experience penalties of some kind. It would just be really frustrating to lose your ship to something you can't really defend against at all. Yeah yeah, adapt or die, blah blah. Still.
Otherwise though I really like the idea and I'm sure we've all been hoping this'd show up on the roadmap sometime. Boarding actions would be pretty awesome, intense fights.
Another consideration: How long does the average Dust game take, vs. the average EVE fight? What are the odds that a particular fight would still be going by the time your Dust boarders actually started doing damage to the ship you fired them into?
I proposed in a post that EVE ships be given new module slot for 'internal security' modules, to defend against and counter boarders. |
John Surratt
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 10:10:00 -
[59] - Quote
Umallon Macross wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:My immediate reaction is that losing a ship outright to Dust players would be a pretty terrible thing. But, then, it is EVE. I don't know, maybe smaller ships (battleships) could be destroyed outright, but anything larger really ought to simply experience penalties of some kind. It would just be really frustrating to lose your ship to something you can't really defend against at all. Yeah yeah, adapt or die, blah blah. Still.
Otherwise though I really like the idea and I'm sure we've all been hoping this'd show up on the roadmap sometime. Boarding actions would be pretty awesome, intense fights.
Another consideration: How long does the average Dust game take, vs. the average EVE fight? What are the odds that a particular fight would still be going by the time your Dust boarders actually started doing damage to the ship you fired them into? I proposed in a post that EVE ships be given new module slot for 'internal security' modules, to defend against and counter boarders.
Hell to the no.
Time scales between the two different kinds of fights are too far apart. Fights can last a long time in fleet engagements but most often it's more like "hey I'm good, life is fine. . . . ZOMGWTFBBQ-snap-crackly-dead" for whoever dies.
I do support boarding of POSes and outposts. That kinds of structure grind is much more compatible with a DUST style match and would give the whole CQB fighting in a corridor feeling similar to a ship. It even makes sense in terms of gameplay and setting in both games. |
Finn Kempers
BetaMax.
222
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 10:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
How about boarding an MCC and attacking it like on Star Wars Battlefront 2 when you boarded inside the ships and (getting past the turrets and enemy soldiers so assuming you have somehow survived) could take out vital systems. Board maybe even extremely large ships like War Barges? |
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Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 10:53:00 -
[61] - Quote
John Surratt wrote:Umallon Macross wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:My immediate reaction is that losing a ship outright to Dust players would be a pretty terrible thing. But, then, it is EVE. I don't know, maybe smaller ships (battleships) could be destroyed outright, but anything larger really ought to simply experience penalties of some kind. It would just be really frustrating to lose your ship to something you can't really defend against at all. Yeah yeah, adapt or die, blah blah. Still.
Otherwise though I really like the idea and I'm sure we've all been hoping this'd show up on the roadmap sometime. Boarding actions would be pretty awesome, intense fights.
Another consideration: How long does the average Dust game take, vs. the average EVE fight? What are the odds that a particular fight would still be going by the time your Dust boarders actually started doing damage to the ship you fired them into? I proposed in a post that EVE ships be given new module slot for 'internal security' modules, to defend against and counter boarders. Hell to the no. Time scales between the two different kinds of fights are too far apart. Fights can last a long time in fleet engagements but most often it's more like "hey I'm good, life is fine. . . . ZOMGWTFBBQ-snap-crackly-dead" for whoever dies. I do support boarding of POSes and outposts. That kinds of structure grind is much more compatible with a DUST style match and would give the whole CQB fighting in a corridor feeling similar to a ship. It even makes sense in terms of gameplay and setting in both games.
It depends on the kind of ship.
Ship boarding would be self-regulating in that you would have to weigh up the cost and effectiveness vs different targets. Motherships and titans don't get instapopped constantly. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 20:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Would PVE enemies of EVE make good targets for boarding? Any answers? |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 20:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Would PVE enemies of EVE make good targets for boarding? Any answers?
I think those would have to be the test bed we try on.
I'd love for that, but I want to hit stations!
pretty much just walk out of my merc quarters one day and BAM!
We have someone fighting for a POS or NPC faction warfare station. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 22:11:00 -
[64] - Quote
I try to be as short as possible:
Ship boarding isn't a good idea and very unlikely to be implemented correctly. Reason: In order to get a fight happening and both attacking and defending teams ready, there would have to be a timer. A timer on a flying ship doesn't work well.
BUT on the other hand: Station boarding IS a very good idea indeed because: - It is a large static target - Current station conquering mechanics suck azz big time in Eve: Whichever corporations ship that happens to destroy the last HP of the stations hull gains control if it magically and the station is even more magically repaired 75% or so. Really??? Oh yes. - Stations are being conquered rarely enough to keep it interesting, not like 1000+ "take this carrier"-contracts at the same time - Station takeover would be neatly implemented with a timer allowing both sides to hire/organise a defense
My 5 cents onto the subject. |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 23:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
It really depends on the ship, and the system behind it.
If you target a ship that's gonna get instapopped, then you have wasted your shot. The system is self-limiting. You don't need to limit it to certain kinds of ships because it is self-limiting. It would give an advantage to fleets that have strong communication: they could send boarders to cripple or even capture high value targets. I see a lot of people saying 'no this won't work it takes too long and ships blow up' but I guess you've never flown in fleets. Good fleets call targets and communicate.
If the defender installs a DUST 514 Merc internal security module, it could automatically add their ship to the playlist for people to join in the 'ship-boarding' queue, with the payouts automatically deducted from the pilot, when the ship is hit with boarders.
If you have Dust players in your corp you can work with, you could have a 'private' lobby, where your corps Dust mercs could be standing by in major fleet battles to spawn on any ship that needs assistance, or to spawn in any boarding craft, and only allowing in freebooter mercs from the queue as needed.
Ships and stations would have base level NPC defenses, which could be augmented with modules that affect the terrain of the map, the difficulty of the NPCs, and the ability to hire Dust mercs. These would fit in new internal security module slots. |
John Surratt
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 07:17:00 -
[66] - Quote
Umallon Macross wrote:It really depends on the ship, and the system behind it.
If you target a ship that's gonna get instapopped, then you have wasted your shot. The system is self-limiting. You don't need to limit it to certain kinds of ships because it is self-limiting. It would give an advantage to fleets that have strong communication: they could send boarders to cripple or even capture high value targets. I see a lot of people saying 'no this won't work it takes too long and ships blow up' but I guess you've never flown in fleets. Good fleets call targets and communicate.
If the defender installs a DUST 514 Merc internal security module, it could automatically add their ship to the playlist for people to join in the 'ship-boarding' queue, with the payouts automatically deducted from the pilot, when the ship is hit with boarders.
If you have Dust players in your corp you can work with, you could have a 'private' lobby, where your corps Dust mercs could be standing by in major fleet battles to spawn on any ship that needs assistance, or to spawn in any boarding craft, and only allowing in freebooter mercs from the queue as needed.
Ships and stations would have base level NPC defenses, which could be augmented with modules that affect the terrain of the map, the difficulty of the NPCs, and the ability to hire Dust mercs. These would fit in new internal security module slots.
Ships, no. Stations yes. NPC defenders, . . no. It should be a contract or group of troops from the aggressor corp/alliance who is SBUing the system, and a contract or group of troops from the defending corp/alliance which holds the sov. It should occur during some portion of the reinforcement grind. . .
. . . I've got some thoughts on station fights & Sov but I'm gonna wait till the weekend when I can write it out. I'll post something in feedback, if I get the chance to work it out on "paper." |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 10:19:00 -
[67] - Quote
I think NPC defenders should be the baseline, like if you have no internal security modules installed, or if you don't have enough isk to pay out contracts. |
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