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Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
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Posted - 2012.07.16 02:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bresker Veyne wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Bresker Veyne wrote:Have you even played EvE?
While the idea in itself sounds cool, the influence that Dust players have on EVE would be far to great. There's no way in hell I want my expensive ship being boarded by a couple of DUST players, only to have it defended by a couple of angry kids who have their thumbs up their asses.
Boarding could be an option for a ship that is so weakened that its about to be destroyed anyway, but instead of an eve player destroying it, they hire mercs to steal it and its contents. Have you played EVE yourself? I really think you should at least play EVE a while before you come up with ideas to merge the two games. You should know that once a normal ship (frigate to battleship) hits hull damage, it wouldn't take long for it to blow up. The matchmaking between EVE and DUST would have ot be out of this world for it to work. But even if that were still possible, it wouldn't be fair to the EVE player. EVE is more about planning out your skills and searching for the best fit. It's more about numbers really. When you lose your ship, it should be because you failed by EVE standards, not DUST ones. DUST players are mercaneries. They get paid by giant corporations and rich capsuleers that fly around in EVE. Not all EVE players should be forced to use mercenaries. Let EVE players fight against each other, a bombardment from the sky or a cannon attacking ships would be nice. But entering is just too much.
Capsuleers would have module options to combat this new tactic. Perhaps a new item slot for ships, like 'internal security' modules, that dictate whether you hire mercs, or have npcs, and the difficulty of the map.
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Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
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Posted - 2012.07.16 02:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
I had another idea, you could have the boarding maps be 'destroy the capsuleer' maps, and you can podkill the capsuleer inside his own ship! |
General Zarkaithnia
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.07.16 02:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
That idea is so sick :D. It could be like the Space Pirates from Metroid Prime and how they board GF vessels xD |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
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Posted - 2012.07.17 06:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
I'd like to see some zero-gravity fighting on the hulls of ships/stations also. |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
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Posted - 2012.07.17 06:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
From the chronicle hands of a killer
Quote:Four months later, Daren Athaksis was confirmed as one of six-thousand three-hundred and fourteen reported casualties resulting from the destruction of the Apocalypse-class battleship "Dam-Imud." His post was filled within three days. His family was not notified. |
Minmatar Slave 74136
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
291
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Posted - 2012.07.17 07:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
carl von oppenheimer wrote:From the chronicle hands of a killerQuote:Four months later, Daren Athaksis was confirmed as one of six-thousand three-hundred and fourteen reported casualties resulting from the destruction of the Apocalypse-class battleship "Dam-Imud." His post was filled within three days. His family was not notified.
This.
Several lore references that EVE ships do actually have crewmen aboard - not as many as older designs (non-pod) but there nonetheless to handle the functions that drones or the podpilot could not. Larger ships, of course, have much larger crews up to in the thousands for a Titan class vessel (The Gallente Erebus Titan is 14 kilometers long and masses in at 2,379,370 metric tons) |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.07.17 07:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
Frigates have one pod pilet, or half dozen or so normal humans, capital ships still have thousands on board.
If boarding required damage into hull, it would be a matter of how much the boarding side gains, same loss to the loser. Just have the self-destruct only eject pilot if boarded. The ship blows if dust team fails. only thing that could be practically boarded would be capitals, pos, and ships caught in gate camps the pirates think is worth risk to keep tackled and in structure(hard to do, but some campers would probably try) Boarding could be a citadel torp. ammo, or a "bomb" launched by stealth bomber, both already have hp to be shot in flight.
Dust players for boarding parties would likely have a long wait. Gate camping pirates could dual box to board themselves, since the camping takes little effort. Large corp/alliance fights where capitals/pos could be captured would just have a small team of dust mercs on standby, members of the corp/alliance most likely. The rare times FW would go after a dread, the battle would take some time and some FW dust players would probably be willing to wait 20min standby for the chance at a match that could pay many tens of million isk to each player.
I could definitively see pirates boarding a unarmed freighter if they caught one in a gate camp. The increased profit from capturing the cargo intact would be worth the hassle, plus the value of the ship itself.
Probably something that could be the main feature of future eve/dust expansion. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.17 09:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
DUST Mercs board EVE ship. Someone else blows up EVE ship. Everyone dies.
Or...
DUST Mercs board ship. Ship gets captured by DUST Mercs.
The first option means they take control of events in DUST away from the players in DUST. This is bad for DUST. The second option means that control of events in EVE is being taken from EVE players. This is bad for EVE.
Nobody in either game should feel like they CAN'T COMPETE against others who are using the other game.
And while DUST players are referred to as Mercenaries, I think it needs to be mentioned that player corporations across both DUST and EVE are going to be interchangeable - DUST players will have their own corporations, and corps created by either side will be able to recruit members in both games. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
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Posted - 2012.07.17 09:58:00 -
[39] - Quote
^
Allowing mercs to board EVE ships, frankly, isn't practical for either game. The lore behind EVE ships is that capsuleers, by themselves, can command any ship with minimal space for life support, living quarters, etc as they need only a minimal crew. The "capsule" itself allows the capsuleer to command any ship virtually by himself, and renders him effectively "at one" with the ship. If a capsuleer needs none of that space, he can fill it with extra modules, or cargo, or whatever. This means that there would be hardly any space for a dust merc to board or fight. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
788
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Posted - 2012.07.17 10:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
Like said above, this simply won't work. It's a nice idea, but it is merely a pipe dream with no practical possibility :( |
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Nellantar Ballsinya
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
175
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Posted - 2012.07.17 11:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Like said above, this simply won't work. It's a nice idea, but it is merely a pipe dream with no practical possibility :(
Right, the average EVE timeframe for a fight is just too quick. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.07.17 12:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
I will self destruct, jettision my pod, kill you all in 1 move and win the match and claim all the rewards |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
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Posted - 2012.07.17 18:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
Besides for it to be fair, both sides would have to put equal resources on the attempt. A titan takes 2 months (minimum) to build and costs 75bil for hull alone with 30bil put to fittings and roughly 20bil to implants for the pilot.
Now unless something drastically changes there will never be anything in DUST that would equal with putting 2 months of waiting in RL time (which can be destroyed while being built btw. !!) and would cost you 120billion in ISK to lose. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.07.17 18:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Would PVE enemies of EVE make good targets for boarding? |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
screw MTCs or whatever i wanna board a ship and be a space marine. |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
Need to start with outpost boarding. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Like said above, this simply won't work. It's a nice idea, but it is merely a pipe dream with no practical possibility :(
as much as you want to be a dev you are not nova knife. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
Laheon wrote:^
Allowing mercs to board EVE ships, frankly, isn't practical for either game. The lore behind EVE ships is that capsuleers, by themselves, can command any ship with minimal space for life support, living quarters, etc as they need only a minimal crew. The "capsule" itself allows the capsuleer to command any ship virtually by himself, and renders him effectively "at one" with the ship. If a capsuleer needs none of that space, he can fill it with extra modules, or cargo, or whatever. This means that there would be hardly any space for a dust merc to board or fight.
so a titan is only flown by 1 person, ok. what about all the lights and decks are they for the 1 person the however many kilometer ship, 1 person? |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Need to start with outpost boarding.
64 likes? really? |
Zander Rodriguez
41
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Not ships but dust battles on space stations may be a better idea. |
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Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:Laheon wrote:^
Allowing mercs to board EVE ships, frankly, isn't practical for either game. The lore behind EVE ships is that capsuleers, by themselves, can command any ship with minimal space for life support, living quarters, etc as they need only a minimal crew. The "capsule" itself allows the capsuleer to command any ship virtually by himself, and renders him effectively "at one" with the ship. If a capsuleer needs none of that space, he can fill it with extra modules, or cargo, or whatever. This means that there would be hardly any space for a dust merc to board or fight. so a titan is only flown by 1 person, ok. what about all the lights and decks are they for the 1 person the however many kilometer ship, 1 person?
Just because one person is in a pod doesnt mean the rest of the ship is deserted. This is indicated in the novels, as well as on EVElopedia. Depending on the faction and ship size, there are various support crews. The beginning of the Empyrean Age novel starts with an infiltrator on an Amarr ship, with the crew reacting.
For the time being however, boarding ships isnt practical. What needs to happen though, to give that CQB feel, is to make it mandatory for an eve alliance to take a station/outpost, would require the use of DUST mercs to gain entry and take objectives. Otherwise, the only option is to destroy the station, somethign eve players have been begging for, opening the option to punative conquests. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:EnIgMa99 wrote:Laheon wrote:^
Allowing mercs to board EVE ships, frankly, isn't practical for either game. The lore behind EVE ships is that capsuleers, by themselves, can command any ship with minimal space for life support, living quarters, etc as they need only a minimal crew. The "capsule" itself allows the capsuleer to command any ship virtually by himself, and renders him effectively "at one" with the ship. If a capsuleer needs none of that space, he can fill it with extra modules, or cargo, or whatever. This means that there would be hardly any space for a dust merc to board or fight. so a titan is only flown by 1 person, ok. what about all the lights and decks are they for the 1 person the however many kilometer ship, 1 person? Just because one person is in a pod doesnt mean the rest of the ship is deserted. This is indicated in the novels, as well as on EVElopedia. Depending on the faction and ship size, there are various support crews. The beginning of the Empyrean Age novel starts with an infiltrator on an Amarr ship, with the crew reacting. For the time being however, boarding ships isnt practical. What needs to happen though, to give that CQB feel, is to make it mandatory for an eve alliance to take a station/outpost, would require the use of DUST mercs to gain entry and take objectives. Otherwise, the only option is to destroy the station, somethign eve players have been begging for, opening the option to punative conquests.
man arnt you the hero on the K/D leader board with 14 kills, man wonder how you did that? |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:EnIgMa99 wrote:Laheon wrote:^
Allowing mercs to board EVE ships, frankly, isn't practical for either game. The lore behind EVE ships is that capsuleers, by themselves, can command any ship with minimal space for life support, living quarters, etc as they need only a minimal crew. The "capsule" itself allows the capsuleer to command any ship virtually by himself, and renders him effectively "at one" with the ship. If a capsuleer needs none of that space, he can fill it with extra modules, or cargo, or whatever. This means that there would be hardly any space for a dust merc to board or fight. so a titan is only flown by 1 person, ok. what about all the lights and decks are they for the 1 person the however many kilometer ship, 1 person? Just because one person is in a pod doesnt mean the rest of the ship is deserted. This is indicated in the novels, as well as on EVElopedia. Depending on the faction and ship size, there are various support crews. The beginning of the Empyrean Age novel starts with an infiltrator on an Amarr ship, with the crew reacting. For the time being however, boarding ships isnt practical. What needs to happen though, to give that CQB feel, is to make it mandatory for an eve alliance to take a station/outpost, would require the use of DUST mercs to gain entry and take objectives. Otherwise, the only option is to destroy the station, somethign eve players have been begging for, opening the option to punative conquests. man arnt you the hero on the K/D leader board with 14 kills, man wonder how you did that?
progod skills, progod skills.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
like this should be feasable since both games can make real time transactions that directly affect each other ingame |
John Surratt
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2012.07.18 06:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:
Just because one person is in a pod doesnt mean the rest of the ship is deserted. This is indicated in the novels, as well as on EVElopedia. Depending on the faction and ship size, there are various support crews. The beginning of the Empyrean Age novel starts with an infiltrator on an Amarr ship, with the crew reacting.
For the time being however, boarding ships isnt practical. What needs to happen though, to give that CQB feel, is to make it mandatory for an eve alliance to take a station/outpost, would require the use of DUST mercs to gain entry and take objectives. Otherwise, the only option is to destroy the station, somethign eve players have been begging for, opening the option to punative conquests.
Oh god, there's brilliant idea. . . make an outpost's destruction tie into DUST. . I fricking love it. Contracts to flip stations or to blow them up (after suitable EVE side grind & fights). . .Or better yet, a merc contract to keep the station from being blown up when you grind through shields & armor, and allow the agressor to capture it intact instead of it blowing up. . .
It also allows for an aggressor or defender to practice "scorched earth" tactics, the whole "you ain't gonna dock there again." |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
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Posted - 2012.07.18 07:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Great ideas everyone, keep them coming. I won't be happy until I can fight in Dust while watching real ships blowing each other up out the window. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.07.18 08:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
My immediate reaction is that losing a ship outright to Dust players would be a pretty terrible thing. But, then, it is EVE. I don't know, maybe smaller ships (battleships) could be destroyed outright, but anything larger really ought to simply experience penalties of some kind. It would just be really frustrating to lose your ship to something you can't really defend against at all. Yeah yeah, adapt or die, blah blah. Still.
Otherwise though I really like the idea and I'm sure we've all been hoping this'd show up on the roadmap sometime. Boarding actions would be pretty awesome, intense fights.
Another consideration: How long does the average Dust game take, vs. the average EVE fight? What are the odds that a particular fight would still be going by the time your Dust boarders actually started doing damage to the ship you fired them into? |
Umallon Macross
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
281
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Posted - 2012.07.18 09:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:My immediate reaction is that losing a ship outright to Dust players would be a pretty terrible thing. But, then, it is EVE. I don't know, maybe smaller ships (battleships) could be destroyed outright, but anything larger really ought to simply experience penalties of some kind. It would just be really frustrating to lose your ship to something you can't really defend against at all. Yeah yeah, adapt or die, blah blah. Still.
Otherwise though I really like the idea and I'm sure we've all been hoping this'd show up on the roadmap sometime. Boarding actions would be pretty awesome, intense fights.
Another consideration: How long does the average Dust game take, vs. the average EVE fight? What are the odds that a particular fight would still be going by the time your Dust boarders actually started doing damage to the ship you fired them into?
I proposed in a post that EVE ships be given new module slot for 'internal security' modules, to defend against and counter boarders. |
John Surratt
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2012.07.18 10:10:00 -
[59] - Quote
Umallon Macross wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:My immediate reaction is that losing a ship outright to Dust players would be a pretty terrible thing. But, then, it is EVE. I don't know, maybe smaller ships (battleships) could be destroyed outright, but anything larger really ought to simply experience penalties of some kind. It would just be really frustrating to lose your ship to something you can't really defend against at all. Yeah yeah, adapt or die, blah blah. Still.
Otherwise though I really like the idea and I'm sure we've all been hoping this'd show up on the roadmap sometime. Boarding actions would be pretty awesome, intense fights.
Another consideration: How long does the average Dust game take, vs. the average EVE fight? What are the odds that a particular fight would still be going by the time your Dust boarders actually started doing damage to the ship you fired them into? I proposed in a post that EVE ships be given new module slot for 'internal security' modules, to defend against and counter boarders.
Hell to the no.
Time scales between the two different kinds of fights are too far apart. Fights can last a long time in fleet engagements but most often it's more like "hey I'm good, life is fine. . . . ZOMGWTFBBQ-snap-crackly-dead" for whoever dies.
I do support boarding of POSes and outposts. That kinds of structure grind is much more compatible with a DUST style match and would give the whole CQB fighting in a corridor feeling similar to a ship. It even makes sense in terms of gameplay and setting in both games. |
Finn Kempers
BetaMax.
222
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Posted - 2012.07.18 10:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
How about boarding an MCC and attacking it like on Star Wars Battlefront 2 when you boarded inside the ships and (getting past the turrets and enemy soldiers so assuming you have somehow survived) could take out vital systems. Board maybe even extremely large ships like War Barges? |
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