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Cobalt Monkey
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
140
   |
Posted - 2012.07.13 07:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't know about other Heavy players, but I'm generally in the AV Club when it comes to what I deal with most. I do fight infantry, but usually only with my Toxin SMG. I can tell you that since I moved from the militia Heavy to the Type 1, it's not uncommon for me to plow through 3 lighter armored characters before they can take me down. Nice as that is, it might be a bit much.
It's also far too common for me to get blown up by the things I'm supposed to be taking down. Not whining, they do generally earn it. If I they can maneuver me into a bad position, or I just blunder, then good on them, shame on me. It just seems to me that if I was put on the battlefield with the main intention of hunting vehicles that I should be able to take a good portion of what they can dish out before I fold.
Now, as the title says, I propose a suit that just takes less damage from mounted weapons and tanks (and possibly explosives?), but is weaker against infantry with small arms and rifles. This wouldn't do anything to discourage teamwork on my part since the big boys are always quite tough to take out. Further, it would give tank drivers/pilots more reason to have a gunner on hand who could pop out to try to get me if they figured out what suit I was in. That would also risk that gunner against my teammates, but it would be their call whether or not to try it.
Is there already something like this and I just haven't seen it?
Thoughts? |
Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 07:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
I heard that damage is different depending on what type the gun is. Like thermal vs kinetic fire arms that cant go through shield but can go through armor and vise-versa. Dont know if this is implemented yet but I'm sure its in the works |
Cobalt Monkey
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 07:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
I would be surprised not to see something like that as well.
I'd be happy if I could just fight tanks a little better in exchange for a little armor.
Heh.
I'm there to tank tanks, after all. It's be nice if my tank tanking didn't tank. :P |
Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 07:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Been trying to tank tanks also. I found scaring them away rather than killing them works pretty well (cant kill them yet since I have a miitia fitting) |
Cobalt Monkey
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 07:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
My Forge is pretty buffed with skills, so I can pretty easily kill the little ones. Suryus (sp?) are a bit of a challenge. Sagari (sp? also) are mean little monsters. I've solo'd exactly one and that was today and I got lucky.
This one happened a bit ago. A Marauder came for B from the attacker's spawn. I chased him back to the redline alone. Couldn't kill him because his regen was just too high and I couldn't shoot fast enough due to the terrain. Of course, the terrain was also what kept me alive. I took the hill and he couldn't follow, but I also couldn't pursue him further because of the large open space. Did keep him pinned there for a good 3 minutes though, even after I ran out of ammo. Just kept popping up like I was going to shoot and then ducking back. |
Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 07:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cobalt Monkey wrote:My Forge is pretty buffed with skills, so I can pretty easily kill the little ones. Suryus (sp?) are a bit of a challenge. Sagari (sp? also) are mean little monsters. I've solo'd exactly one and that was today and I got lucky.
This one happened a bit ago. A Marauder came for B from the attacker's spawn. I chased him back to the redline alone. Couldn't kill him because his regen was just too high and I couldn't shoot fast enough due to the terrain. Of course, the terrain was also what kept me alive. I took the hill and he couldn't follow, but I also couldn't pursue him further because of the large open space. Did keep him pinned there for a good 3 minutes though, even after I ran out of ammo. Just kept popping up like I was going to shoot and then ducking back.
Did you know, after advance and you got all your profficiencies with forge, you can fire all your rounds in less than 5 seconds :D did it last build, not sure about this build. lol yeah playing with their heads really does get to them, some are just too worried about their tanks and play it way too safe (like that dude probably was) |
Cobalt Monkey
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 08:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Currently maxed Operation, and Proficiency 4. Guess I should work on the Heavy Weapon RoF increase. That's a thing, right? I can't remember at the moment.
Getting there.
I can understand why they'd try to play it safe, since those things are a sizable investment. Still, he really should have been able to take me since I was just one guy. As expensive as they are, I really shouldn't be able to take one down solo just by shooting it, even with my proposed suit here. Throw in teamwork, mines once we have them, and that should be what brings the things down, imo. All my suit would do is allow you to threaten them little better. |
Encharrion
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 09:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think that perhaps the heavy should just have a 10-25% reduction on splash damage. |
Ryan Martel
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 09:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Im not even sure if theres any direct bonuses from the suits as far as what strengths they play towards but some are best suited to other roles. In either case I don't think that suit will solve the real problem. You still would have to outstrip the damage of the tank in order to bring it down regardless of any defenses you'd have.
Obviously though people have the right idea with teamwork and so forth and it proves extremely well. Last night a real good team I was with slaughtered like about five or so Sagaris and various tanks and dropships through just making sure they never had a moments rest and kept vocal tabs on the enemy. Made easily half a million from that fight alone. I imagine if I had the SP boost for the first two matches I'd have seen more then 98,000+ SP also.
But back to the making the solutions, in my opinion someone whom specializes in dishing out pain to AV needs to bite the bullet and grind, buy and outfit himself with the best possible damage he can do with his weapon of choice. I mean Im not exactly sure how many damage boosters one can get for a forge gun via skills or how to improve rate of fire and reload times but I do know that outfitting yourself with more damage modules would probably go a long way and increasing the speed via skills in which you can lay into an opponent helps even more. It is not a big leap in logic for that. People that specialize in AV do much more good with more power and speed behind their weapons since they need to make every shot count against the big guys and quickly before they can run.
Just my take on things since I am always compelled to try and help out. |
Finn Kempers
BetaMax.
222
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 10:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maybe have it as a separate Heavy suit to buy that is more resistant to shots that vehicles fire? Damage modifiers/skills that improve damage against tanks?
Seems legit. |
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Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2012.07.13 11:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Isn't this what heavy suit already does?
It has plenty of armor and shield so you can take few of those shots before you drop. There'll probably be shield modules as well which could offer better defense against explosions. Shield skills at least talk about some sorts of resistance modules if I recall correctly.
The reason why you are taking out people with your heavy suit and SMG is mainly because people are just stupid. Most AR users don't realize that SMG fire rate is far above AR's making it really deadly in close ranges. It can take out players within milliseconds if you manage to do a lucky burst of bullets to their face.
Now try taking down an ar-assault that keeps at medium range, and you'll be whooped. Why? because maybe 10% of your bullets will hit and the fire rate is useless in longer ranges. There might even be some distance modifiers making your bullets deal less damage when the distance is greater. |
Cobalt Monkey
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 15:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kyy Seiska wrote:Now try taking down an ar-assault that keeps at medium range, and you'll be whooped. Why? because maybe 10% of your bullets will hit and the fire rate is useless in longer ranges. There might even be some distance modifiers making your bullets deal less damage when the distance is greater.
Yeah, I don't fight those. I run away (as best I can) and make them get into closer quarters if at all possible. Even there they do manage to hit me just fine. I take damage, I just don't often die. I have 900 combined shields and armor, and I'm not sure if that's before or after my passive buffs kick in.
@Ryan
I'm pretty good in the damage department, but I'm not really looking to be able to take these things down solo without a great deal of luck.
AV is as much about field control as it is about actually killing things. I don't need to put a tank down to take it out of the fight, just sufficiently threaten it. I think running in to the only suit on the field that could take a hit from their main gun, say "Ouch" and keep coming would do that. 
@Finn
Complex Heavy Damage modules already do that pretty well. I think I'm currently throwing around about 1700 damage per shot. I hurt, I just don't have the staying power against my favored enemy that I would personally like. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 18:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sounds like you should level up AV grenades and get in a prototype heavy. Popping three grenades and firing 4 shots from the prototype forge gun will obliterate any tank (ANY tank) in the space of under 10 seconds. Probably less than 5. That is extreme AV power, and almost enough EHP to survive a direct hit from anything short of the top tier railguns.
Not to mention, less SP investment than a top tier tank. |
Cobalt Monkey
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 05:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Just upgraded to the Boundless SMG.
You're all made of cardboard now.
Seriously, the thing is crazy. Had to dump a ton of SP into SMG Pro. and Op, then a bunch more into CPU cost reductions for both Heavy and Sidearm, as well as attach a CPU upgrade and go without my Armor Repair until I can dump in more to further reduce the cost. Still practically a one man army now. If I only burst fire I can even kill at mid range with the Boundless.
Even with all that SP investment, it still seems a little broken. The only things that can kill me reliably are main tank fire, dropship crushing, and the Dusty Noob Tube (aka, Remote Explosives). If the Prototype suit is this much better than the Tech 1, then I will likely be a god when I work up to it.
I've kept to militia grenades since AV ones aren't supposed to do anti-personnel so well, and I tend to engage tanks from a distance anyway. Still, if they're that good at what they do I'll try to adapt my style to them. Thanks for the tip. :) |
Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 09:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
i wouldnt mind a dedicated AV set up, something that has a chance to chase a retreating tank, would definately like a forge gun that is all direct damage and no splash. recently im having to use my SMG way too much as my team will readily abandon the heavys in faour of their damn K/D. |
Cobalt Monkey
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 16:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yeah. Some of those tanks are really fast too. Something that large shouldn't be giving LAVs a run for their money. I've countered as best I can with a few points in Endurance and Vigor, but it only helps me run longer and more often, not faster. |
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