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Berserker007
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
206
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Posted - 2012.07.12 02:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
hey guys; know i'll probably get royally flamed by this; but never the less here it is. In playing A LOT during the beta hours; ive started to notice how well the Boundless Breach SMG is. Now i am not uber elite player, but i have been noticing that in close/mid range; that gun seems to be tearing up anything in its path.
Im not saying nerf the guy; far from it, as i find that stats to be a-ok (havent used it; just be going by how it seems from the receiving end). What i'd like to see looked at, is the manner in which the smg skills progress.
I find that CCP should try and make it the same as the AR skilling, as make it more accurate to start, then the proficiency about damage, not the other way around. Even if that is done, i find that a +5% is a bit much; and should be looked into going to a +3% like the AR is set to.
In thinking about how it performs in game; take the Creo & the Boundless together (assuming have Operation lv5 + weaponry lv5). The Creo starts at ~58 (plz correct if im off), and the Boundless at ~ 50 (again plz correct if wrong). By using the skill bonuses; you are getting the Creo at ~66.7 ; and the Boundless at ~70 ; then factor into the smg's higher rate of fire.
So assume 2 people w/ exact same skill shoot each other w/in each others range, the Boundless has both a damage & rof advantage at this stage. By looking at this, unless someone using the Creo wants to start putting wanting into AR-P , they will be matched by the Boundless till it becomes out of range.
With that example/rant; not sure if anyone else feels the same, but id like to see the smg SKILLING (not the indv. weapons) looked at.
My .02 (lets hear the flaming possibly/probably commence) |
Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
71
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Posted - 2012.07.12 02:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pretty good point, not an smg expert but you do have a good point |
STB-stlcarlos989 EV
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
936
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Posted - 2012.07.12 04:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Boundless starts at 40.8, Creodron with WeapV and ARV is ~75, SMG with WeapV and SMGV is ~57
Not trying to be a smart ass. |
Jack McReady
46
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Posted - 2012.07.12 08:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
with minimal SP the AR are better close range, when you invest into SMG then the SMG has slightly higher dps but it still has alot worse effective range, it is pretty useless outside of close combat. SMG is supposed to be able to shred stuff up close. will you also complain about scramber pistols being able to one shot alot of targets with a hit in the head? lighter suits or fittings with swarm launchers also need a way to defend themself. |
Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2012.07.12 08:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
the SMG is vital to some of the heavy suits (forge guna and swarm launcher) and has a dramaticly shorter effective range than any of the AR, so i think it does ballance nicely, for every 1 smg death i have i get killed by 20 AR, so i dont thing that there is any issues there.
also at 8,900 isk its one of the most expensive smg, there are others with better Dps as well |
Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2012.07.12 09:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hellhammer Tactical wrote:the SMG is vital to some of the heavy suits (forge guna and swarm launcher) and has a dramaticly shorter effective range than any of the AR, so i think it does ballance nicely, for every 1 smg death i have i get killed by 20 AR, so i dont thing that there is any issues there.
also at 8,900 isk its one of the most expensive smg, there are others with better Dps as well
This
It's actually quite fun to actually sometimes get to lure people up close so you can actually have a chance fighting them. Gotten plenty of kills this way even when on very low hp. It gets most AR users and cqc scouts by surprise when they come up really close and take a somewhat lucky stream of bullets to the head and die in milliseconds. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2012.07.12 10:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
smg's always have lesser DPS than the equivalent AR. by like a lot.
if you assume full skills, the gap closes, but the ar still wins. not to mention the superior range.
though there is a point of course, where the smg will be trained to lvl 5 for dmg and the ar will not have any damage YET. right there the smg is ahead by a little bit, but the ar still has a huge range advantage.
put simply, the boundless does NOT deal 50 damage per shot. |
Berserker007
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
206
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 11:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:Boundless starts at 40.8, Creodron with WeapV and ARV is ~75, SMG with WeapV and SMGV is ~57 Not trying to be a smart ass.
@carlos (and others) ; like i said in my OP, i wasnt positive if the DPS was 50 or 40; it seemed i was wrong. |
Jack McReady
46
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Posted - 2012.07.12 11:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:smg's always have lesser DPS than the equivalent AR. by like a lot.
if you assume full skills, the gap closes, but the ar still wins. not to mention the superior range.
though there is a point of course, where the smg will be trained to lvl 5 for dmg and the ar will not have any damage YET. right there the smg is ahead by a little bit, but the ar still has a huge range advantage.
put simply, the boundless does NOT deal 50 damage per shot.
max skills the boundless breach smg deals 57 dmg per hit. it also has ~6% more dps compared to a max skills creodron breach AR.
anyway the SMG is rather useless outside of close range that is why the AR is better. chances are the AR will get weapon attachments in the future and the smg will not. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
416
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 11:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Buzzwords wrote:smg's always have lesser DPS than the equivalent AR. by like a lot.
if you assume full skills, the gap closes, but the ar still wins. not to mention the superior range.
though there is a point of course, where the smg will be trained to lvl 5 for dmg and the ar will not have any damage YET. right there the smg is ahead by a little bit, but the ar still has a huge range advantage.
put simply, the boundless does NOT deal 50 damage per shot. everything you said is not true.
standard AR. damage=30 rof=750 dps=375 standard smg damage=20 rof=1000 dps=333.333 (repeating)
standard breach AR. DMG=48 rof=401.1 dps=320.88 standard breach smg. DMG=34 rof=534.8 dps= 303.05
advanced AR DMG=33 rof=750 dps=412.5 advanced standard smg DMG=22 rof=1000 dps=366.666(repeating)
advanced breach AR DMG=52.8 rof=401.1 dps=352.968 advanced breach smg DMG=37.4 rof=534.8 dps=333.35
proto standard AR DMG=36 rof=750 dps=450 proto standard smg DMG=24 rof=1000 dps=400
proto breach AR DMG=57.6 rof=401.1 dps=385.056 proto breach smg DMG=40.8 rof=534.8 dps=363.664
AR can train up +15% dmg. smg can train up +25% dmg. for a net gain of 10% in favor of smgs.
so i suppose i stand corrected (somewhat...) fully trained, breach variant SMGs catch up to breach variant ARs. standard ARs beat everything. |
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Jack McReady
46
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Posted - 2012.07.12 11:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:
so i suppose i stand corrected (somewhat...) fully trained, breach variant SMGs catch up to breach variant ARs. standard ARs beat everything.
1. I changed my post, I found it a bit rude 
2. someone uses anything else than breach? 
3. SMG are easier to fit and only occupy the sidearm slot |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.12 12:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
SMGs should be something to fear in CQC. That's the point. At mid-range, every single AR will out-DPS even the maxed-out SMGs. Long range, don't even think about trying to hit someone with your SMG.
I'll admit though, I HAVEN'T played much with any of the top-tier gear, but from what I've seen of high-level SMGs, they're not even CLOSE to having an effective range that threatens ARs.
And the damage buffs early on emphasise the short-range effectiveness better than buffing accuracy first would. I like it (but I would, I like my rapid-fire CQC weapons). |
Jack McReady
46
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Posted - 2012.07.12 13:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:AR will out-DPS even the maxed-out SMGs. Long range, don't even think about trying to hit someone with your SMG.
well that is the basic gist, they are a sidearm and last resort. the AR is meant to be main weapon thus is well rounded. I think the SMGs are balanced. they have their strengths and also serious drawbacks. |
Baron Rittmeister
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 13:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
The way the smg's skill up is to give them a balancing advantage to the ar's. The ar's can only hit +40% if they equip a complex dmg mod while an smg can reach that with just skill perks. Assault smg can match the standard ar if it has a dmg mod and the breach smg has the lowest dps of both classes and all variants, so I feel that's balanced. Just don't forget that dps isn't everything in this game, especially for an smg user. It's more about whose the better shot and knows how to use their weapon. I use the boundless breach cuz I like the control and the sustainable fire ( approx 8s per clip ).
You can max 36 dmg with the assault smg and a lil over 61 with a breach. that's using each prototype variant with a complex dmg mod and full perks. +50% dmg |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 14:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
You basically have to max out sidearm range to make SMG's truly effective as a main weapon. As a backup to my SL, I'm enjoying them a lot for the time being. (I'd be a sitting duck to militia infantry without 'em.)
I'm favoring the Freedom Burst at the moment, but the Breach seems to be the way to go when fighting higher level infantry. |
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