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TabbieKat
72
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Posted - 2012.07.09 04:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dust is looking like it is coming out well and well i do know that a lot of stuff will be fixed in the coming weeks and months before it is released to the general public. My reason for this post is to try to get the gimmicky players to stop before stuff gets nurfed. Valid tactics and strategies are going to be lost because you use Remote Explosives as grenades. I mean come on, when have you EVER seen a solider throw a block of C-4 at someone and then detonate it. Using it in a spawn point to kill people as they come in is a good way to use it. Annoying but it is being used correctly. I also know if friendly fire is introduced Remote explosives used as grenades will decline, but in the mean time they will get nurfed and will not be worth it.
Dropship pilots.... DO YOUR JOB. Your job is not to fly around and look for people to squash and your job is not to set up on a tower or building and fire down. You are suppose to pick people up and drop them off and also provide air support though flying around with your gunners. I am not saying do not squish people, that is another valid tactic but looking around for people to squish will get annoying enough that like Remote Explosives it will get nerfed. If you want to be an army of one either get a heavy suit with a HMG or a Forge gun and have at it. You are just wasting everyone else's time looking for people to squish.
I can already see the "QQ more" and the like posts but I am trying to keep things that work from being nufed, and when they do, only you Gimmicky players are to blame. Stop using the low kick button long enough to learn how to play the game and things will be better, this is not live this is BETA play in other ways then the easy way to find stuff wrong with the game that needs to be fixed. |
onlyelisha
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
86
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Posted - 2012.07.09 04:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pretty much agree with everything except this
TabbieKat wrote:a heavy suit with a HMG.
Kind of hard to be a one man army with a HMG. Scrambler pistol or assualt rifle maybe, but the HMG nah.
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TabbieKat
72
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Posted - 2012.07.09 07:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
LOL right but i was just giving an example i do not want to see things get nurfed because some tool wanted easy mode. most good attacks and strategies get nurfed in most MMO's because of these tools.
In Planetside there was a tank called the Magrider Tank. It was a hover tank that got the nick name "The Lawnmower" for good reason. People got really good a mowing down infantry and not learning to use it. Well it got to the point where if you saw one and you were infantry you just let them kill you. Well after a lot of belly aching from the people getting "mowed down" they drastically reduced the damage it did when it hit you. It went from it hits you you are dead to they have to back over your three of four times to kill you. A good tactic was nurfed because people over used it. I foresee this happening to the drop ships in order to force them to be used properly. I do not want to see this happen so please if you see a dropship only, and i repeat ONLY squishing people please tell them to stop so this will not be nurfed. |
Seeker of Cheese
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
163
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Posted - 2012.07.09 10:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
There's a quick test for tactics: Did it work? Then it's the correct way to use it. |
Seran Jinkar
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
214
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well I'd say that the squasch damage will stay the same, but the damage to the vehicle on impact will be increased. That would increase the demand on flight skill and keep the dropships in the sky. |
zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
108
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
TabbieKat wrote:Dropship pilots.... DO YOUR JOB. Your job is to fly around and look for people to squash and your job is to set up on a tower or building and fire down.
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zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
108
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
how much time have you spent flying a dropship?
and how much of that time did you have gunners?
i squish the hell out of the other team so my team realizes that they need to get in my gun seats because i am an impressive pilot. once i have a gunner, or two, i dont squish(as much )
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.09 12:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't have a problem with Dropships trying to squish me.
If they aren't better at the game than me, they usually die first. If they are, they deserved the kill (and I still usually leave them hurting). And if they're tower-camping, my Swarm Launcher is better at killing them than they are at hitting anywhere near me. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2012.07.09 12:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
TabbieKat wrote: Dropship pilots.... DO YOUR JOB. Your job is not to fly around and look for people to squash and your job is not to set up on a tower or building and fire down. You are suppose to pick people up and drop them off and also provide air support though flying around with your gunners.
Have you tried getting SP as a dropship pilot? It's impossible as nobody guns for you so that what people resort to |
Corban Lahnder
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
158
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Posted - 2012.07.09 14:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Squishing always exposes drop ships to alot of fire So I have viewed it as a valid risk reward trade off.
the tower thing is getting ludcirous though. Either they need to adjust the flight cieling of the drop ships, increase the inacuracy of launchers at extreme long range, or just limit there range, also with the safe unsafe zones they could use that to imply a flight cieling for zones.
Moral of the story is theres lots of mechanics to end tower sniping and the game was a lot more fun and balanced with out it. |
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Skunk Shampoo
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2012.07.09 14:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Honestly, if using certain tactics are not the "correct" way to play... Then what's the fuss if it gets nerfed? ;)
Besides, how can CCP find the right balance unless players push the limits and reveal everything that can be exploited? I have no issue with the dropship taking a chunk of damage for slamming against the ground. Dropships on the tower would be a lot less effective once players on the ground can see them. Once I know where they are at, my forge gun can take them in 2 shots... 1 if i hit the gunner. This is all good. |
Kain Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
907
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Posted - 2012.07.09 17:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
I really haven't had too much trouble with tower dropships. Someone just needs to call out their location on coms and then I blast it with my forge gun. Drop ships are a lot easier to hit when parked. |
Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
287
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
zekina zek wrote:how much time have you spent flying a dropship? and how much of that time did you have gunners? i squish the hell out of the other team so my team realizes that they need to get in my gun seats because i am an impressive pilot. once i have a gunner, or two, i dont squish(as much )
Agreed 1000% |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sorry, I got stuck on him condemning the use of remote explosives as an in-a-pinch grenade (somewhat reasonable) and advocating its use for spawn-camping (REALLY?!). While not exactly conventional, it could work. The spawncamping, on the other hand, is 100% pure bullshit. By all means, mine choke points, but the spawn itself is ridiculous (and easily fixed, by not letting you place explosives within a radius of spawn-in points). Had exactly this happen yesterday, don't know how many remote explosives come with a loadout, but he used at least 10 to kill people trying to spawn at the only forward spawn. That's, quite simply, cheap, unreasonable, and unrealistic. FAR more unrealistic than throwing C4 at someone then triggering the detonator. You blow up the thing that people spawn out of, you don't just camp it for free kills (and they are free, since it's literally impossible to get out of the blast radius in time). |
Beta Phish
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gimmick = Abusing what is Broken/UnBalanced is Beta
thats what you really mean |
Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
287
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Sorry, I got stuck on him condemning the use of remote explosives as an in-a-pinch grenade (somewhat reasonable) and advocating its use for spawn-camping (REALLY?!). While not exactly conventional, it could work. The spawncamping, on the other hand, is 100% pure bullshit. By all means, mine choke points, but the spawn itself is ridiculous (and easily fixed, by not letting you place explosives within a radius of spawn-in points). Had exactly this happen yesterday, don't know how many remote explosives come with a loadout, but he used at least 10 to kill people trying to spawn at the only forward spawn. That's, quite simply, cheap, unreasonable, and unrealistic. FAR more unrealistic than throwing C4 at someone then triggering the detonator. You blow up the thing that people spawn out of, you don't just camp it for free kills (and they are free, since it's literally impossible to get out of the blast radius in time).
There is no need to prevent placing explosives in spawn points since spawning in the same place is a known bug.
Once they fix the spawn bug, everything will be fine. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Traynor Youngs wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Sorry, I got stuck on him condemning the use of remote explosives as an in-a-pinch grenade (somewhat reasonable) and advocating its use for spawn-camping (REALLY?!). While not exactly conventional, it could work. The spawncamping, on the other hand, is 100% pure bullshit. By all means, mine choke points, but the spawn itself is ridiculous (and easily fixed, by not letting you place explosives within a radius of spawn-in points). Had exactly this happen yesterday, don't know how many remote explosives come with a loadout, but he used at least 10 to kill people trying to spawn at the only forward spawn. That's, quite simply, cheap, unreasonable, and unrealistic. FAR more unrealistic than throwing C4 at someone then triggering the detonator. You blow up the thing that people spawn out of, you don't just camp it for free kills (and they are free, since it's literally impossible to get out of the blast radius in time). There is no need to prevent placing explosives in spawn points since spawning in the same place is a known bug. Once they fix the spawn bug, everything will be fine. Depends on the implementation of the fix, really. Either way, I'd support having destructible spawns and a hefty point reward for killing them, specifically to discourage spawn-camping. No spawn at all is better than spawn-camp-farming bullshit. |
Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
287
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Sorry, I got stuck on him condemning the use of remote explosives as an in-a-pinch grenade (somewhat reasonable) and advocating its use for spawn-camping (REALLY?!). While not exactly conventional, it could work. The spawncamping, on the other hand, is 100% pure bullshit. By all means, mine choke points, but the spawn itself is ridiculous (and easily fixed, by not letting you place explosives within a radius of spawn-in points). Had exactly this happen yesterday, don't know how many remote explosives come with a loadout, but he used at least 10 to kill people trying to spawn at the only forward spawn. That's, quite simply, cheap, unreasonable, and unrealistic. FAR more unrealistic than throwing C4 at someone then triggering the detonator. You blow up the thing that people spawn out of, you don't just camp it for free kills (and they are free, since it's literally impossible to get out of the blast radius in time). There is no need to prevent placing explosives in spawn points since spawning in the same place is a known bug. Once they fix the spawn bug, everything will be fine. Depends on the implementation of the fix, really. Either way, I'd support having destructible spawns and a hefty point reward for killing them, specifically to discourage spawn-camping. No spawn at all is better than spawn-camp-farming bullshit.
Intended Spawn Mechanic: You spawn in some random area around the spawn point and not always in the same place. The area is supped to be some radius from the point big enough to be "un camp able"
Except for drop uplinks, which I think is supposed to be right on top of it every time.
Destroying CRU's is not a bug, thats just smart gameplay. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Traynor Youngs wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Sorry, I got stuck on him condemning the use of remote explosives as an in-a-pinch grenade (somewhat reasonable) and advocating its use for spawn-camping (REALLY?!). While not exactly conventional, it could work. The spawncamping, on the other hand, is 100% pure bullshit. By all means, mine choke points, but the spawn itself is ridiculous (and easily fixed, by not letting you place explosives within a radius of spawn-in points). Had exactly this happen yesterday, don't know how many remote explosives come with a loadout, but he used at least 10 to kill people trying to spawn at the only forward spawn. That's, quite simply, cheap, unreasonable, and unrealistic. FAR more unrealistic than throwing C4 at someone then triggering the detonator. You blow up the thing that people spawn out of, you don't just camp it for free kills (and they are free, since it's literally impossible to get out of the blast radius in time). There is no need to prevent placing explosives in spawn points since spawning in the same place is a known bug. Once they fix the spawn bug, everything will be fine. Depends on the implementation of the fix, really. Either way, I'd support having destructible spawns and a hefty point reward for killing them, specifically to discourage spawn-camping. No spawn at all is better than spawn-camp-farming bullshit. Intended Spawn Mechanic: You spawn in some random area around the spawn point and not always in the same place. The area is supped to be some radius from the point big enough to be "un camp able" Except for drop uplinks, which I think is supposed to be right on top of it every time. Destroying CRU's is not a bug, thats just smart gameplay. I agree about the CRUs, I'm saying I'd be fine with ALL points you can spawn at having something physical you spawn at, like the tubes in PlanetSide. I say give their destruction a high point value to encourage destroying them, rather than camping there and farming the people spawning in them, like failnubs would often do in PlanetSide. |
bjorn morkai
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.07.09 22:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Seeker of Cheese wrote:There's a quick test for tactics: Did it work? Then it's the correct way to use it.
no no no no no thats not how tactics work. take a lesson from the 40k universe: "if your plan is working, its a trap." "the most dangerous thing on the field is a junior officer with a compass and a map" "incoming fire has the right of way" "fight battles that are small enough to win, but large enough to matter" "attack is the only order worth remembering" "everyone has a soft spot. its right under your chin and its called your neck." "if all else fails, waive your hands above your head, run around in little circles and begin screaming."
there, you are now fully capable of fighting. |
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RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.09 22:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hey i requested sliding, guess i'm one of those players too some people. :D |
Da Lancer
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
15
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Posted - 2012.07.10 01:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Sorry, I got stuck on him condemning the use of remote explosives as an in-a-pinch grenade (somewhat reasonable) and advocating its use for spawn-camping (REALLY?!). While not exactly conventional, it could work. The spawncamping, on the other hand, is 100% pure bullshit. By all means, mine choke points, but the spawn itself is ridiculous (and easily fixed, by not letting you place explosives within a radius of spawn-in points). Had exactly this happen yesterday, don't know how many remote explosives come with a loadout, but he used at least 10 to kill people trying to spawn at the only forward spawn. That's, quite simply, cheap, unreasonable, and unrealistic. FAR more unrealistic than throwing C4 at someone then triggering the detonator. You blow up the thing that people spawn out of, you don't just camp it for free kills (and they are free, since it's literally impossible to get out of the blast radius in time).
The problem I noticed with spawn camping near the letter objectives is that you always spawn in the same part near the objective, which while better and less cheap than spawning right on the objective, is still too easy to predict. Instead when a player chooses a spawn point they get 2-3 different spawn spots in the same direction at relatively the same distance from the letter objectives.
Another solution could be a trick from killzone mulitplayer: when choosing spawn points you get a camera near the area showing you how much fighting is going on near there, also giving the player a visual way to see a enemy bombing up your spawn. If you are trying to spawn at a heavly contested spawn, you should know the risk you are putting yourself in! |
Jardin Gooche
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.10 03:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
I think the gunner-less dropships issue is checken-and-egg.
I want to be a dropship gunner, and I am constantly sprinting after empty dropships to get on board only to have them park on a building (to snipe) or (when there is another gunner on board) point my gun at the edge of the mao.
I know there are good pilots out there, but not many.
It would also be good to be able to tell (maybe I am just not looking lose enough) whether you are boarding an aluminium foil drophip or one that has a decent chance of staying in the air for a while. |
Ender Storm
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2012.07.10 12:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
zekina zek wrote:how much time have you spent flying a dropship? and how much of that time did you have gunners? i squish the hell out of the other team so my team realizes that they need to get in my gun seats because i am an impressive pilot. once i have a gunner, or two, i dont squish(as much )
Well most dropships take flight as soon as they spawn not letting people get close enough to embark.
Other times when you embart, the dropship is just going up to a tower because the pilot wants to camp.
So meh. |
Rykenth Drekk
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
76
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Posted - 2012.07.10 13:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Two words for this whole post....
Battlefield... Roll... |
Dalton Smithe
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
45
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Posted - 2012.07.11 06:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
bjorn morkai wrote:Seeker of Cheese wrote:There's a quick test for tactics: Did it work? Then it's the correct way to use it. no no no no no thats not how tactics work. take a lesson from the 40k universe: "if your plan is working, its a trap." "the most dangerous thing on the field is a junior officer with a compass and a map" "incoming fire has the right of way" "fight battles that are small enough to win, but large enough to matter" "attack is the only order worth remembering" "everyone has a soft spot. its right under your chin and its called your neck." "if all else fails, waive your hands above your head, run around in little circles and begin screaming." there, you are now fully capable of fighting.
Actually that comes from some time before 40k, its murphy's law of combat... |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
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Posted - 2012.07.14 06:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Da Lancer wrote:Another solution could be a trick from killzone mulitplayer: when choosing spawn points you get a camera near the area showing you how much fighting is going on near there, also giving the player a visual way to see a enemy bombing up your spawn. If you are trying to spawn at a heavly contested spawn, you should know the risk you are putting yourself in! No, no, no, NOOOO. No free intel. Period. Anywhere. You want intel? Gather it. The system you propose is like what the Consu believe in "Old Man's War." Let's kill off one of our guys, then his ghost can go check out these other locations and report back what it sees. Wounds familiar, right? Because it's exactly the risk-free intel you're suggesting.
No intel that isn't earned, no killcams, no spawncams, no automatic, free identification of exact suit models / tiers (other than, MAYBE overall class such as pilot/heavy/scout/assault/etc.
Earn your intel.
Dalton Smithe wrote:bjorn morkai wrote:Seeker of Cheese wrote:There's a quick test for tactics: Did it work? Then it's the correct way to use it. no no no no no thats not how tactics work. take a lesson from the 40k universe: "if your plan is working, its a trap." "the most dangerous thing on the field is a junior officer with a compass and a map" "incoming fire has the right of way" "fight battles that are small enough to win, but large enough to matter" "attack is the only order worth remembering" "everyone has a soft spot. its right under your chin and its called your neck." "if all else fails, waive your hands above your head, run around in little circles and begin screaming." there, you are now fully capable of fighting. Actually that comes from some time before 40k, its murphy's law of combat... Also from Skippy's List and Schlock Mercenary. |
Daionnis Magnifico
Doomheim
4
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Posted - 2012.07.14 06:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:No, no, no, NOOOO. No free intel. Period. Anywhere. You want intel? Gather it. The system you propose is like what the Consu believe in "Old Man's War." Let's kill off one of our guys, then his ghost can go check out these other locations and report back what it sees. Wounds familiar, right? Because it's exactly the risk-free intel you're suggesting.
No intel that isn't earned, no killcams, no spawncams, no automatic, free identification of exact suit models / tiers (other than, MAYBE overall class such as pilot/heavy/scout/assault/etc.
Earn your intel.
Easily fixable by making it so dead teammate can't talk over comms.
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Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
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Posted - 2012.07.14 08:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
I am totally for the ideas behind this post and some of the replys. However, some of what's been said here is just rubbish. I'll summarise like this.
For starters, anything that works as a tactic is valid. If something is being used that is not supposed to be used, it's not balanced and of course it'll get abused. Look at real life choppers. They aren't used in battle to squish people. They don't run you over as a battle tactic. Why? Many reasons. For starters, killing a single soldier on the battlefield won't help anyone. Battles aren't about K/D. Battles are about objectives and the final outcome (usually leading to the next battle). Choppers are so busy carrying out objectives that they just don't have the time to deal with infantry work. Now back to the game. Why is squishing a good tactic? Because it works. Why does it work? Have you ever tried squishing someone with a real chopper? It's amazingly stupid. It would either be so slow (as to avoid self damage) that anyone with half a brain would actually move out of the way. Or it would be so destructive to the chopper that it wouldn't be able to take off again. I'm guessing the crew would even be tossed out of the vehicle upon impact.
So no. Dropship squishings don't need to be nerfed. They need to be balanced. A pilot needs to understand that hitting the ground fast has grave consequences.
Those are my 2 cents. |
Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2012.07.14 10:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
i see dropships as vague helecopters, designed to get soldiers into the fight and provide cover, not big mean squishing machines (thats an Lav's job) squasihing should do damage to the dropship, although i guess anything too close to the exhausts should be toasted.
that said i love being able to see a dropship coming and charge a forge shot ready. |
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