Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 12:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Daionnis Magnifico wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:No, no, no, NOOOO. No free intel. Period. Anywhere. You want intel? Gather it. The system you propose is like what the Consu believe in "Old Man's War." Let's kill off one of our guys, then his ghost can go check out these other locations and report back what it sees. Wounds familiar, right? Because it's exactly the risk-free intel you're suggesting.
No intel that isn't earned, no killcams, no spawncams, no automatic, free identification of exact suit models / tiers (other than, MAYBE overall class such as pilot/heavy/scout/assault/etc.
Earn your intel.
Easily fixable by making it so dead teammate can't talk over comms. 1) That only works if when you die once, you're out for the remainder of the match, otherwise it just means you report the intel 12 seconds later (allowing 2 seconds to select spawnpoint and loadout).
2) That would only serve to cause squads to set laptops next to them and use Mumble or TS with voice activation turned on.
Your solution only actually "works" in games like ArmA2, when playing entirely within (and against!) a group of FRIENDS whose focus is on realism and immersion. Any other situation will simply cause people to make the call that is most advantageous to them.
Grit Breather wrote:I am totally for the ideas behind this post and some of the replys. However, some of what's been said here is just rubbish. I'll summarise like this.
For starters, anything that works as a tactic is valid. If something is being used that is not supposed to be used, it's not balanced and of course it'll get abused. Look at real life choppers. They aren't used in battle to squish people. They don't run you over as a battle tactic. Why? Many reasons. For starters, killing a single soldier on the battlefield won't help anyone. Battles aren't about K/D. Battles are about objectives and the final outcome (usually leading to the next battle). Choppers are so busy carrying out objectives that they just don't have the time to deal with infantry work. Now back to the game. Why is squishing a good tactic? Because it works. Why does it work? Have you ever tried squishing someone with a real chopper? It's amazingly stupid. It would either be so slow (as to avoid self damage) that anyone with half a brain would actually move out of the way. Or it would be so destructive to the chopper that it wouldn't be able to take off again. I'm guessing the crew would even be tossed out of the vehicle upon impact.
So no. Dropship squishings don't need to be nerfed. They need to be balanced. A pilot needs to understand that hitting the ground fast has grave consequences.
Those are my 2 cents. And that's basically my point, and I said as much in one of my earlier posts in this or another thread. Simply increase the impact damage that dropships receive. Very quickly you'll see people avoiding hitting things (go figure.) That said, we need to increase the impact damage to infantry by tanks and jeeps, because as it stands, it's way too light (or seems it). The only time I've had one hurt me was while I was hacking a terminal and he literally crushed me between the terminal and his jeep, then drove off again.
Though that actually raises another issue, since the jeeps seem to be incapable of receiving environmental damage. In a tank, if I bump into a pillar 2 meters behind me, starting from a dead stop, i take damage (1-5% armour on the soma with a DCU). Meanwhile I was flying all over the place, slamming into things, and generally behaving like a drunken squirrel that's just snorted an 8-ball, and it doesn't even touch the shields. Seems kinda backwards, don't you think? haha
|
TabbieKat
72
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 22:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Some of you have gotten why I have done this post and others did not. If you actually spend the time to read my two previous posts I am attempting to NOT get stuffed nurfed. Using remote explosives as a pinch grenade is fine but I have seen people only use it because it is an easy kill. If this keeps up people will complain about it. The more people that complain about it will equal Nurf. I do not want to see the damage or the blast radius get nurfed because it was overused for easy kills.
As for Dropships, yes landing on someone in this game is easy to do and I have done it myself. But i also do not go around looking for people to squish. Either i do it when i am taking off, trying to sweep people off of a tower, or trying to get rid of a pesky guy on a tower shooting at me while i wait for people to gun for me. People getting Dropships and squishing people all the time will result in the crushing damage being nurfed. In the new Communications Map I see the drop ship being used like it should be as air support. Annoying as all hell when the Dropship is on the other team but ehh shoot it down... or try , and/or get your own. They still squish people but not very often. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 23:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
TabbieKat wrote:Some of you have gotten why I have done this post and others did not. If you actually spend the time to read my two previous posts I am attempting to NOT get stuffed nurfed. Using remote explosives as a pinch grenade is fine but I have seen people only use it because it is an easy kill. If this keeps up people will complain about it. The more people that complain about it will equal Nurf. I do not want to see the damage or the blast radius get nurfed because it was overused for easy kills.
As for Dropships, yes landing on someone in this game is easy to do and I have done it myself. But i also do not go around looking for people to squish. Either i do it when i am taking off, trying to sweep people off of a tower, or trying to get rid of a pesky guy on a tower shooting at me while i wait for people to gun for me. People getting Dropships and squishing people all the time will result in the crushing damage being nurfed. In the new Communications Map I see the drop ship being used like it should be as air support. Annoying as all hell when the Dropship is on the other team but ehh shoot it down... or try , and/or get your own. They still squish people but not very often. You don't know CCP that well if you think whinging is sufficient to get them to ruin their game. Taking a look at EVE, they've made some extremely unpopular changes, that were in fact to the great benefit of the game (one of the biggest I can think of is the big nano nerf a few years back.) Their focus is on making an awesome game, not appeasing the whiners. That strategy has made them the only MMORPG in the three-decade history of the genre that has shown consistent growth for even HALF as long as they have, and they show no signs of peaking.
If they nerf something, expect it to be the reasons or ability to misuse something (for example, allowing us to cook grenades, and making their behavior more consistent and predictable), rather than nerfing that something as a band-aid fix. Nerfs and buffs without thought to balance or consequences are more a SOE and Actiblizzion thing. CCP is very much hands-off, and they only make large changes where there's a legitimate need for the good of the game, whether that change will be popular at first or not. |
TabbieKat
72
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 23:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
no whining here as i can see you do not understand. things work but when people over use things because it makes it easy to win and generally pisses off the other people will get things nurfed. not whining at all just warning. if you like the RE and the Dropship squishing you with either agree that they are being overused and you do not want them nurfed, or you will say i am an idiot for warning you before the flood. As for the people that hate them either they will say they need to be nurfed or taken out because they are too powerful or if they were toned down a bit they really work well in the game.
All in all I think they work well, add in Friendly Fire and a Penalty though either ISK and or SP for killing your own people and that will make them more strategic. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 23:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
TabbieKat wrote:no whining here as i can see you do not understand. things work but when people over use things because it makes it easy to win and generally pisses off the other people will get things nurfed. not whining at all just warning. if you like the RE and the Dropship squishing you with either agree that they are being overused and you do not want them nurfed, or you will say i am an idiot for warning you before the flood. As for the people that hate them either they will say they need to be nurfed or taken out because they are too powerful or if they were toned down a bit they really work well in the game.
All in all I think they work well, add in Friendly Fire and a Penalty though either ISK and or SP for killing your own people and that will make them more strategic. Again, it's you that doesn't seem to understand. CCPs general strategy is to let people figure out how to counter it. If there isn't a counter, they might make small tweaks to introduce a viable counter. If something truly is broken, they'll make the change necessary, regardless of if it's popular or not.
The fixes to the "issues" listed here are simple: randomize spawns (or provide physical spawn devices at all spawnable areas with a strong point incentive to kill them rather than farm them), make normal grenades better (allow cooking, and make their behavior more consistent and predictable), and increase the impact damage received by jeeps and dropships that crash into people and objects.
These are all good balance fixes, and are not really buffs or nerfs, simply tweaking them to bring them more in line with how they SHOULD be, and encourage normal gameplay.
You're letting your experience with other companies shade your perspective. Arbitrary buffs and nerfs, consequences be damned, are the territory of Actiblizzion, SOE, and similar. CCP avoids big changes like the plague, and nothing they do is a knee-jerk. They always have an eye to the consequences.
SP and ISK penalties for teamkilling aren't just broken and ********, but completely fly in the face of what this universe is. Betrayal is a part of the game. You're jumping on a knee-jerk solution, as opposed to smaller, more subtle changes, to guide player behavior in line with intended gameplay. My suggestions do this; yours do not. |
TabbieKat
72
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 00:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Well Geirskoegul lets agree to disagree, yes I have found counters and i know adding friendly fire damage to the game will stop people from just throwing RE's willy nilly. I also know if they increase the Draw Distance for Dropships this will also keep people from just popping out of no where and squishing you. As for the penalty thing, yes I do get this is a game that supports a "I will do what I want when I want" mentality and I like that. Maybe when they add corporations into the game "player ones not the default ones" the people in charge of it will get an option to penalize members for killing people on their side as it hurts their bottom line. Just saying this is all Knee-Jerk reactions is not right. Yes I have played other games and while CCP owns this game they are partnered with SOE to bring you this game.
I get what you are saying and I understand and I am glad to know you trust CCP enough to see the next few squares ahead to get a broader picture of what is going on. I really do understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. I respect your opinion on the game as a whole and I hope you respect mine, because without respect I will just say, (to quote Adam Savage) "I reject your reality and substitute my own." |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 01:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
TabbieKat wrote:Well Geirskoegul lets agree to disagree, yes I have found counters and i know adding friendly fire damage to the game will stop people from just throwing RE's willy nilly. I also know if they increase the Draw Distance for Dropships this will also keep people from just popping out of no where and squishing you. As for the penalty thing, yes I do get this is a game that supports a "I will do what I want when I want" mentality and I like that. Maybe when they add corporations into the game "player ones not the default ones" the people in charge of it will get an option to penalize members for killing people on their side as it hurts their bottom line. Just saying this is all Knee-Jerk reactions is not right. Yes I have played other games and while CCP owns this game they are partnered with SOE to bring you this game.
I get what you are saying and I understand and I am glad to know you trust CCP enough to see the next few squares ahead to get a broader picture of what is going on. I really do understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. I respect your opinion on the game as a whole and I hope you respect mine, because without respect I will just say, (to quote Adam Savage) "I reject your reality and substitute my own." Working closely with SOE is not the same as partnered. One of the reasons it became PS3 exclusive is that MSFT was unwilling to let CCP do things their way. |
Galthur
CrimeWave Syndicate
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 01:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Corban Lahnder wrote:Squishing always exposes drop ships to alot of fire So I have viewed it as a valid risk reward trade off.
the tower thing is getting ludcirous though. Either they need to adjust the flight cieling of the drop ships, increase the inacuracy of launchers at extreme long range, or just limit there range, also with the safe unsafe zones they could use that to imply a flight cieling for zones.
Moral of the story is theres lots of mechanics to end tower sniping and the game was a lot more fun and balanced with out it. I don't agree with either of those, i agree with CCP's plan of adding artillary turrets for tanks, lets see them up there then |
TabbieKat
72
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 01:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote: Working closely with SOE is not the same as partnered. One of the reasons it became PS3 exclusive is that MSFT was unwilling to let CCP do things their way.
They have a business contract with them so that CCP has the use of the PS3 as a medium to get their game out, while they control the game they do not control the PS3 ie a partnership over rights. Also while CCP can control what they sell on the market, SOE gets a profit off of them using it. Now is it a 50/50 contract, no. CCP reserves the creative rights to Dust 514 while SOE reserves the rights of their programming. If you really want to get technical, Unreal owns the game seeing as they are using their engine to run it. If Unreal felt they were not getting the contract fulfilled with them they could kill Dust in two seconds.
They are contractual partners, Sony has giving Unreal the codes for the PS3 to adjust their engine to be usable on the PS3 and Unreal has allowed CCP to use their PS3 version of the Unreal Engine to make Dust. Sony has allowed CCP to use the PS3 as a platform and though contracts that both companies feel benefits both of them, Dust is a reality. All people that are working with CCP to make Dust are partners though contracts.
Now as to how much creative licence is given SOE in Dust, I do not know and i know "unless you have read the contract" do not know either. They may have control over parts or none at all. Yes EVE is a big success but so is WoW. OMG OMG Tabbie said WoW. EVE is for the more sophisticated and older player were as WoW is geared to the Younger crowd. Where Dust sits is to be determined at the moment. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 02:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
TabbieKat wrote:Geirskoegul wrote: Working closely with SOE is not the same as partnered. One of the reasons it became PS3 exclusive is that MSFT was unwilling to let CCP do things their way.
They have a business contract with them so that CCP has the use of the PS3 as a medium to get their game out, while they control the game they do not control the PS3 ie a partnership over rights. Also while CCP can control what they sell on the market, SOE gets a profit off of them using it. Now is it a 50/50 contract, no. CCP reserves the creative rights to Dust 514 while SOE reserves the rights of their programming. If you really want to get technical, Unreal owns the game seeing as they are using their engine to run it. If Unreal felt they were not getting the contract fulfilled with them they could kill Dust in two seconds. They are contractual partners, Sony has giving Unreal the codes for the PS3 to adjust their engine to be usable on the PS3 and Unreal has allowed CCP to use their PS3 version of the Unreal Engine to make Dust. Sony has allowed CCP to use the PS3 as a platform and though contracts that both companies feel benefits both of them, Dust is a reality. All people that are working with CCP to make Dust are partners though contracts. Now as to how much creative licence is given SOE in Dust, I do not know and i know "unless you have read the contract" do not know either. They may have control over parts or none at all. Yes EVE is a big success but so is WoW. OMG OMG Tabbie said WoW. EVE is for the more sophisticated and older player were as WoW is geared to the Younger crowd. Where Dust sits is to be determined at the moment. Were the terms of engine licensing as ridiculous as you imply, no one would license an engine. What you describe sounds like what Oracle was trying to do with anything written in or for Java: "use our APIs, we own you."
What you say seems to describe the deal Sony has with anyone else. CCP would appear to have full control and discretion over Dust, within the standard rules for any software on the PS3. I don't see anything indicating that SOE would have the power to force CCP to make detrimental changes to the game in violation of their previous history and behaviour when it comes to handling balancing their games. |
|
TabbieKat
72
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 02:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Geirskoegul, were you on a debate team in High School/Grammar School/Collage because you sure can debate a point. And if you are still in HS/GS/Collage then you should be. You would be good. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 02:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
I think I'll take that as a compliment? heh
And no, never did debate team, but I do follow things I find interesting. I'm also highly active on the Ars Technica forums, and whenever subjects like global warming, software patents, copyright, etc. come up, trolls and other ignorant individuals show up in force. Arguing a point on here is cakewalk compared to there (and requires far less sourcing, since here it's usually just a matter of logic and explaining things; there I actually have to find the scientific proof to shut up the idiots, or at least to be able to do so while calling them out for baseless assertions that credible sources CAN"T be found for.)
It's further exacerbated by the fact that I'm taking a writing and a public speaking course at the moment, and I'm currently working on the persuasive research paper and persuasive speech for the two respectively, heh. Kinda already has me in debate mode (4.0 GPA so far in all my classes, not bad considering the last time I was in school was the better part of a decade ago, and i'm working full time while I'm doing this haha). |
TabbieKat
72
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 02:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Well to be honest I see us arguing the same side of the same coin. Some points we differ but in most of it we are saying the same thing. We both do not want unnecessary nurfs. I do not know CCP as well as you do and yes my past has scared me from people using gimmicks and forcing a nurf that ruins the game. I really hope you are right about CCP but we will not know for 100% until the game goes live.
PS:and yes that was a compliment and an insult to a worthy foe LOL |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |