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Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
140
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Posted - 2012.07.08 19:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just had the idea while I was posting on another thread.
How about a way (icon with color-code or else) to figure out what kind of player you're going against ?
For example, on a map you'd see my name with a (!) next to it, meaning that I have basic armor, or a (((!))) if I have prototype armor.
This could unlocked with a purchasable module OR be a default squad leader prerogative.
This way you could look at a battlefield differently before spawning, and figure out what kind of dropsuit to recommend your squad, knowing you'll go against a heavily-armored defense, for example.
Like it ? |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
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Posted - 2012.07.08 19:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
I shot this down the last time it came up. There's no logical reason you would have this information, there's no logical reason to display it, and it overly complicates things. Use the MAG example, you only getspecial icons for a short time when someone manually calls it out, that's it. The current implementation to differentiate between jeeps, tanks, dropships, and infantry is more than sufficient. You're just fishing for free intel that you could have obtained by looking closer and reporting over comms. |
Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
140
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:I shot this down the last time it came up. There's no logical reason you would have this information, there's no logical reason to display it, and it overly complicates things. Use the MAG example, you only getspecial icons for a short time when someone manually calls it out, that's it. The current implementation to differentiate between jeeps, tanks, dropships, and infantry is more than sufficient. You're just fishing for free intel that you could have obtained by looking closer and reporting over comms.
I don't agree GÇö right now, having better gear or armor is only two-dimensional: live longer or kill faster. On a pure gaming perspective, the armor/gun leveling should have a third dimension that makes it worth while on the long term.
This added dimension of being able to figure out which level or gear your enemy has adds to field strategy:
a) It requires you to make more / better use of the market, as you fight b) It will probably allow a better reason for having logistics vehicles, or characters that supply certain types of ammo c) It requires of you to make on-the-spot strategic decisions.
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Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nate Silverley wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:I shot this down the last time it came up. There's no logical reason you would have this information, there's no logical reason to display it, and it overly complicates things. Use the MAG example, you only getspecial icons for a short time when someone manually calls it out, that's it. The current implementation to differentiate between jeeps, tanks, dropships, and infantry is more than sufficient. You're just fishing for free intel that you could have obtained by looking closer and reporting over comms. I don't agree GÇö right now, having better gear or armor is only two-dimensional: live longer or kill faster. On a pure gaming perspective, the armor/gun leveling should have a third dimension that makes it worth while on the long term. This added dimension of being able to figure out which level or gear your enemy has adds to field strategy: a) It requires you to make more / better use of the market, as you fight b) It will probably allow a better reason for having logistics vehicles, or characters that supply certain types of ammo c) It requires of you to make on-the-spot strategic decisions. Now you're begging, without logic or justification, for even MORE DETAILED intel, for free, and no reason to have it.
How the **** do you know EXACTLY what model weapon he has? What model armour he's wearing? You don't. Learn to identify it visually, like we have to in real life (not that I really care whether the hadji shooting at me is carrying an AK-47 or a vietnam-era AR-15; all I care is that he's shooting at me and I'd damn well better shoot the ****** first before he hits me).
I should thank you, really, for proving the point even more clearly that your request has no place whatsoever in this game. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
There should be ways for scouts to relay this intel with right moduels and other stuff talked about in Roles on the battlefield at fanfest. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 21:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:There should be ways for scouts to relay this intel with right moduels and other stuff talked about in Roles on the battlefield at fanfest. Armour type at the absolute most, and I already addressed that earlier in the thread: it must be MANUALLY called out. No free intel. You think you saw X, fine, mark the target as X, but if it's really Y, it'll show up as Y, because the ID needs to depend on the player actually identifying it, not system magic granting free information. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
There really should be a way to tell the grade of armor your opponents are wearing. Visual clues on the suit themselves, special icons, special modules, whatever the method, it is needed. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 21:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:RolyatDerTeufel wrote:There should be ways for scouts to relay this intel with right moduels and other stuff talked about in Roles on the battlefield at fanfest. Armour type at the absolute most, and I already addressed that earlier in the thread: it must be MANUALLY called out. No free intel. You think you saw X, fine, mark the target as X, but if it's really Y, it'll show up as Y, because the ID needs to depend on the player actually identifying it, not system magic granting free information.
I agreee, no free intel like that. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Nate Silverley wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:I shot this down the last time it came up. There's no logical reason you would have this information, there's no logical reason to display it, and it overly complicates things. Use the MAG example, you only getspecial icons for a short time when someone manually calls it out, that's it. The current implementation to differentiate between jeeps, tanks, dropships, and infantry is more than sufficient. You're just fishing for free intel that you could have obtained by looking closer and reporting over comms. I don't agree GÇö right now, having better gear or armor is only two-dimensional: live longer or kill faster. On a pure gaming perspective, the armor/gun leveling should have a third dimension that makes it worth while on the long term. This added dimension of being able to figure out which level or gear your enemy has adds to field strategy: a) It requires you to make more / better use of the market, as you fight b) It will probably allow a better reason for having logistics vehicles, or characters that supply certain types of ammo c) It requires of you to make on-the-spot strategic decisions. Now you're begging, without logic or justification, for even MORE DETAILED intel, for free, and no reason to have it. How the **** do you know EXACTLY what model weapon he has? What model armour he's wearing? You don't. Learn to identify it visually, like we have to in real life (not that I really care whether the hadji shooting at me is carrying an AK-47 or a vietnam-era AR-15; all I care is that he's shooting at me and I'd damn well better shoot the ****** first before he hits me). I should thank you, really, for proving the point even more clearly that your request has no place whatsoever in this game.
Hadjis. Doesn't matter what rifle he had just that he had one you shoot the bastard if he didn't drop it right away. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 21:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nate Silverley wrote:I just had the idea while I was posting on another thread. How about a way (icon with color-code or else) to figure out what kind of player you're going against ? For example, on a map you'd see my name with a (!) next to it, meaning that I have basic armor, or a (((!))) if I have prototype armor. This could unlocked with a purchasable module OR be a default squad leader prerogative. This way you could look at a battlefield differently before spawning, and figure out what kind of dropsuit to recommend your squad, knowing you'll go against a heavily-armored defense, for example. Like it ?
On topic I suppose. If a squad mate has eyes on target there should be away to know what kind of armor it is but not just popping up on the overview.
But really it just needs to be easier to tell which is which.
Perhaps going of of the chevrons they already use.
1 Chevron is militia/standard 2 is advanced 3 is proto but only if you or a team mate can actually see them and within a reasonble visual range lets say 50 meters |
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Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
140
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Posted - 2012.07.08 22:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Nate Silverley wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:I shot this down the last time it came up. There's no logical reason you would have this information, there's no logical reason to display it, and it overly complicates things. Use the MAG example, you only getspecial icons for a short time when someone manually calls it out, that's it. The current implementation to differentiate between jeeps, tanks, dropships, and infantry is more than sufficient. You're just fishing for free intel that you could have obtained by looking closer and reporting over comms. I don't agree GÇö right now, having better gear or armor is only two-dimensional: live longer or kill faster. On a pure gaming perspective, the armor/gun leveling should have a third dimension that makes it worth while on the long term. This added dimension of being able to figure out which level or gear your enemy has adds to field strategy: a) It requires you to make more / better use of the market, as you fight b) It will probably allow a better reason for having logistics vehicles, or characters that supply certain types of ammo c) It requires of you to make on-the-spot strategic decisions. Now you're begging, without logic or justification, for even MORE DETAILED intel, for free, and no reason to have it. How the **** do you know EXACTLY what model weapon he has? What model armour he's wearing? You don't. Learn to identify it visually, like we have to in real life (not that I really care whether the hadji shooting at me is carrying an AK-47 or a vietnam-era AR-15; all I care is that he's shooting at me and I'd damn well better shoot the ****** first before he hits me). I should thank you, really, for proving the point even more clearly that your request has no place whatsoever in this game.
I never said for free. I proposed it to be a certain specific module OR a squad leader perk only. Not every player should have that, to your credit, but I'm sure there can be an intelligent and balanced way to add this.
To your credit, knowing which model weapon doesn't matter. I'm talking more about armor GÇö you don't have to know which model, just if it's light, medium, or heavy and it's meta technology number. It already says enough.
Example: Nate Silverley (H7) - So you know I'm Heavy with Meta 7 tech armor. So If you see a lot of H6 and H7s on the map, you have to put your noobs under cover and release the hounds. |
Wynn80
43
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Posted - 2012.07.09 00:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
As a support/medic this sounds like a really bad idea I don't want some silly icon over my head telling the other team to kill me first.
What is in the game is mics just have good teams uses scouts to call out what enemies are doing and armor types. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 00:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wynn80 wrote:As a support/medic this sounds like a really bad idea I don't want some silly icon over my head telling the other team to kill me first.
What is in the game is mics just have good teams uses scouts to call out what enemies are doing and armor types.
Comms is always important but I think one of the major points the OP is trying to address is the fact that it is very difficult to tell if they are using prototype armor. Besides if you are a logi you like more like a heavy anyway and become a target that way. |
Wynn80
43
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Posted - 2012.07.09 00:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Still think that a sniper on mic can tell your team people loads out.
Having a icon over my head or near my name telling the other team I'm support would ruin the game for a lot of us, that have the hardest job in team base shooters. A good team will know very fast with team work what the other team has. |
Neco'mancer
Dump Truck driver
17
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Posted - 2012.07.09 00:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
in eve, there's a module that tells you exactly that, all you need to do is get a lock on with it, and you get there full load out, even how much ammo/valubles they have if you have that type of mod equipped. seems like a good use of a slot to me... |
Wynn80
43
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Posted - 2012.07.09 00:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Neco'mancer wrote:in eve, there's a module that tells you exactly that, all you need to do is get a lock on with it, and you get there full load out, even how much ammo/valubles they have if you have that type of mod equipped. seems like a good use of a slot to me...
I'm fine with it being a mod, ghost recon has this with a sniper scope they can give intel that way. I don't want some brainless feature that makes medics stick out like a sore thumb. |
Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 02:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
I agree it shouldn't be something free. But how about this idea: Let's say you have an "Armor Grade Scanner Module of different variants.
AGS Basic: Reveal infantry armor on manual spot. AGS Advanced: Reveal infantry armor + meta level on spot AGS Prototype: Reveal infantry armor of + metal level of every foe on the field.
In opposition, you could always have Stealth Modules scramble the AGS's signal on various levels as well.
As some of you pointed out, yes the idea is to distinguish the High Level / Prototype armors from the rest of the pack.
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Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 07:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bones1182 wrote:On topic I suppose. If a squad mate has eyes on target there should be away to know what kind of armor it is but not just popping up on the overview.
But really it just needs to be easier to tell which is which.
Perhaps going of of the chevrons they already use.
1 Chevron is militia/standard 2 is advanced 3 is proto but only if you or a team mate can actually see them and within a reasonble visual range lets say 50 meters Again, you're asking for free intel there's no logical way for you to know. From looks alone, how would you know the quality of his armour? You don't, you have no right to that intel. You look, you can tell the difference between a scout, an assault, a heavy, and a logi. This is all you need. You may call it out manually. If you call it out wrong, it should shows what you called it out as, not what it really is. It's your job to collect good intel, not the game's to handle you free intel you'd never have.
Nate Silverley wrote:I never said for free. I proposed it to be a certain specific module OR a squad leader perk only. Not every player should have that, to your credit, but I'm sure there can be an intelligent and balanced way to add this.
To your credit, knowing which model weapon doesn't matter. I'm talking more about armor GÇö you don't have to know which model, just if it's light, medium, or heavy and it's meta technology number. It already says enough.
Example: Nate Silverley (H7) - So you know I'm Heavy with Meta 7 tech armor. So If you see a lot of H6 and H7s on the map, you have to put your noobs under cover and release the hounds. How do I know you're wearing meta 7 armour? There's no visual difference and no logical reason I'd have any way whatsoever of knowing it. You want to make a module to guess? Fine, but it needs to be held on the target for 10 seconds or so (like in EVE) and it needs to give erroneous info like it does in EVE (the one in EVE can tell you he has more weapons than he has high slots sometimes ^^).
In reality, you shouldn't get any of this. Look at him, figure it out, and use comms. Free intel is bull****, pure and simple.
Neco'mancer wrote:in eve, there's a module that tells you exactly that, all you need to do is get a lock on with it, and you get there full load out, even how much ammo/valubles they have if you have that type of mod equipped. seems like a good use of a slot to me... Actually, you're conflating two separate modules. And the one that tells you their loadout LIES. It can tell you he has multiples of items he only has one of, more items than he has slots to install them in, modules he doesn't actually have equipped at all, etc.
Also worth noting that no one really uses it, because it's all info you can gather by observation.
Nate Silverley wrote:I agree it shouldn't be something free. But how about this idea: Let's say you have an "Armor Grade Scanner Module of different variants.
AGS Basic: Reveal infantry armor on manual spot. AGS Advanced: Reveal infantry armor + meta level on spot AGS Prototype: Reveal infantry armor of + metal level of every foe on the field.
In opposition, you could always have Stealth Modules scramble the AGS's signal on various levels as well.
As some of you pointed out, yes the idea is to distinguish the High Level / Prototype armors from the rest of the pack.
1) You have no need for this intel 2) There's no logical reason you should HAVE this intel 3) If you're wasting slots on this crap, you're failfitting 4) All the information you actually need can be gathered visually. |
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