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Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
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Posted - 2012.06.29 18:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
This thread is about aurum items, as-is. I don't want conjecture and speculation about how things will be or what will happen with aurum stuff. This is about the items, not any of the issues behind them. I want players to help, and I will try to edit this post to make it easier for CCP to read the important stuff and keep it up to date with valid concerns about aurum. (Again, keep the pay2win stuff outside.)
First off : Inconsistencies. The 'lesser skill' aurum items give access to prototype level stat equipment, earlier than they should. Level 1 of a skill gives you access to the advanced tier (Normally level 4), At level 2 of a skill you get the prototype equivalent (Normally level V + additional profiency skill level 1 for weapons). I feel this is far too early for equivalents of the best stuff in the game. I feel a 'one level' system would be more appropriate. Level 3 of a skill giving you the advanced tier equivalent, and level 4 giving you the prototype equivalent.
EDIT : There is a large skill requirement inconsistency in prototype level Aurum gear. All of the gear (Including the 'reduced CPU/PG' versions on the market at prototype tier only requires XXX weapon operation 4, when most of the ISK variants require operation at level 5 and proficiency at level 1. This is one thing that -must- change. This also applies to the advanced tier items, as an addendum to the first point, all of the aurum items are 'early acces' even the ones which reduce pg/cpu. That should not be the case.
Second :
Fitting requirements. I like this idea, I really do. However, what I take issue with is the implementation. Many of the Aurum items provide the same effect with less fitting costs. This goes against the spirit of (at least in my mind) what Aurum is supposed to be. Aurum items should be sidegrades and variants. Aurum items that are easier to fit are great, but they need to have downsides. A player should choose between "more effect" and "easier to fit". They should not get both. There should be a trade off there.
For example, the prototype shield extender gives a bonus of 66 shield HP and PG/CPU cost of 54/11. The Aurum one provides the same HP and costs 36/6. With what I am proposing the ISK one would remain at current stats but the Aurum version would only provide 45-50 HP while costing less CPU. This maintains the role as a sidegrade, ensuring that neither item is 'better', and each is more useful in certain situations. The Aurum item remains attractive to purchase, but is not 'required to make the best possible fit'.
Edit : Third :
Pricing. Making Aurum cheap is an important part of making it attractive to purchase. The prices are mostly good but some stuff could stand to be a bit lower. Mostly the dropsuits. The dropsuit is probably the most important Aurum item to make attractive to buy. Why? Because it's one that is easily seen by other players. Weapons show up in the killfeed, but a dropsuit is actually seen. There's a visual recognition that someone is using real money gear without any other indication. People need to want to buy these, and CCP needs to do everything to encourage that. (Give us pink suits. Seriously.) Another thing is that with the new shiny graphics, some suits lost their color, while other colors became more prominent. Scouts got better color, assaults lost theirs. The suit that was gold is no longer gold (Make it a brighter gold. People want vanity and E-peen. A golden suit will be popular. (Very popular) The suit that was blue is no longer the clear blue.
Here's a rough list of what suits are now and what they could be adjusted to, in order make them more attractive... ordered from standard/advanced/prototype:
Scout & assault current : 5/7/11. Change to : 4/6/8 Logistics current : 6/7/13. Change to : 4/6/9 Heavy current : 5/8/11. Change to 4/7/9
Weapons seem to follow a pattern of standard 3, advanced 5 or 7, and prototype 9. A 3/5/7 would be more attractive for sure. The differences are small, but they add up. I might be biased as one of the people spending money, but if I get the perception I'm getting more out of my money, I'm personally going to be far more willing to invest even more. It's all about things being perceived as a 'good deal'.
I feel these suggestions would put Aurum items back in line with how CCP initially advertised them and would ease many concerns of players about them. If anyone notices any specific anomalies in item stats or skill requirements related to Aurum stuff, post it here so I can update this post. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
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Posted - 2012.06.29 18:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Some of the lesser fitting requirement is needed to compensate for lack of skills that reduce fitting requirements. (keeping in line with the idea of allowing people to try out stuff)
This of course will lead to some optimal high-skill fits that might only fit with AUR items, and that is something CCP really should look into fixing. While not a perfect solution, keeping the PG consisten between ISK and AUR items would be an idea, as CPU usage is most heavily modified by skills. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 19:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
And Repair Guns. Having ISK Repair Guns would be really nice. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 19:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:And Repair Guns. Having ISK Repair Guns would be really nice.
There is. None of the repair tools are supposed to be on the market at all, right now. There is actually about a dozen of these buggers for ISK, some better at infantry, some better at vehicles/installations, etc. The aurum ones even being on the market currently is a mistake on their part :) |
The2 Holgg
BetaMax Beta
47
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Posted - 2012.06.29 20:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Do any one know if you can use all the best stuff (modules and dropsuet) ISK wise if you have all the skills that reduce the CPU and PG if so am fine whit the reused (payed) versions. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 20:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:And Repair Guns. Having ISK Repair Guns would be really nice. There is. None of the repair tools are supposed to be on the market at all, right now. There is actually about a dozen of these buggers for ISK, some better at infantry, some better at vehicles/installations, etc. The aurum ones even being on the market currently is a mistake on their part :)
I know... but until they correct this/add the ISK ones, I'm gonna keep at it anyway. |
Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 21:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Greetings,
The2 Holgg wrote:Do any one know if you can use all the best stuff (modules and dropsuet) ISK wise if you have all the skills that reduce the CPU and PG if so am fine whit the reused (payed) versions. Even with maxed skills it is not possible to use all of the best stuff in each category. Having said that however, there are ways you can make your fit work with all of the best stuff. For example in the last build, I had a vk.0 scout fit with all prototype gear, however, I had to use CPU mods to do it... They were prototype CPU mods, but I could not fit by my primary weapon, secondary weapon and multiple shield extenders without the CPU mods... But that is why CCP does it the way they do and why the EVE players love it. No one weapon / skill / fit / etc is an 'I win button', instead they each have their advantages and their disadvantages.
|
The2 Holgg
BetaMax Beta
47
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 21:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
I did not mean the I win outfit. more like in the log run if I where to focus all in one fit I will end up whit a fit that is only one module less then a pay variant and thats all fine =) |
Tobirama Uchiha
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 22:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
I feel the same as u thanks for posting this so detailed man. :)
Nova Knife wrote:This thread is about aurum items, as-is. I don't want conjecture and speculation about how things will be or what will happen with aurum stuff. This is about the items, not any of the issues behind them. I want players to help, and I will try to edit this post to make it easier for CCP to read the important stuff and keep it up to date with valid concerns about aurum. (Again, keep the pay2win stuff outside.)
First off : Inconsistencies. The 'lesser skill' aurum items give access to prototype level stat equipment, earlier than they should. They give access to prototype gear at level 2 of a skill. I feel this is far too early for equivalents of the best stuff in the game. I feel a 'one level' system would be more appropriate. Level 2 or 3 of a skill giving you the advanced tier equivalent, and level 4 giving you the prototype equivalent.
Second :
Fitting requirements. I like this idea, I really do. However, what I take issue with is the implementation. Many of the Aurum items provide the same effect with less fitting costs. This goes against the spirit of (at least in my mind) what Aurum is supposed to be. Aurum items should be sidegrades and variants. Aurum items that are easier to fit are great, but they need to have downsides. A player should choose between "more effect" and "easier to fit". They should not get both. There should be a trade off there.
For example, the prototype shield extender gives a bonus of 66 shield HP and PG/CPU cost of 54/11. The Aurum one provides the same HP and costs 36/6. With what I am proposing the ISK one would remain at current stats but the Aurum version would only provide 45-50 HP while costing less CPU. This maintains the role as a sidegrade, ensuring that neither item is 'better', and each is more useful in certain situations. The Aurum item remains attractive to purchase, but is not 'required to make the best possible fit'.
I feel these suggestions would put Aurum items back in line with how CCP initially advertised them and would ease many concerns of players about them. If anyone notices any specific anomalies in item stats or skill requirements related to Aurum stuff, post it here so I can update this post.
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Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 10:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Initial post updated with skill requirement information. |
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Red at Math
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
41
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Posted - 2012.06.30 10:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
My thoughts on AUR expenditures are that they should be a way to exchange AUR for time. Using that as a guiding principle, I'm 100% OK with AUR items having a reduced requirement to use. I do think that they need to be standardized, and I'm fine with Standard AUR items being as good as Advanced ISK while Advanced AUR items are as good as Prototype ISK items. This leaves nothing for Prototype AUR items to upgrade to though, introducing the reduced fitting requirements.
I'm also 100% fine with the reduced fitting requirements on Prototype AUR items. An often overlooked concept when discussing how much better they can make fittings is that the Dropsuits themselves introduce a hard cap on the number of modules you can fit. If you're suit has 3 high slots and can fit 3x Complex Shield Extenders using ISK, then it cannot suddenly fit a 4th Extender because you have switched to AUR Modules and both Extenders give the same HP. As some people have asked whether a suit comprised of entirely AUR items is capable of doing things that an ISK suit cannot, the answer is that it can...but not to any degree you might expect.
Generally speaking, the difference between a completely AUR fit Prototype Suit and a completely ISK fit Prototype Suit is a single Module. The ISK fit either foregoes fitting a Sidearm, or an Equipment Slot, but is otherwise identical or it fits a single CPU Upgrade module in a lowslot in order to gain just as much (and generally more) extra CPU as the AUR suit had. This usually led to fittings where the AUR suit had an extra Armor Plate in place of the CPU Upgrade, giving it 100 more HP, but also making it slower. In several comparisons it meant that the ISK Suit also now had enough CPU to fill a second EQ slot that the AUR suit didn't have.
After looking at the numbers in a fair degree of detail, my conclusion is that the complete AUR suit isn't worth the performance upgrade that it does receive over the ISK suit. What I more often see reduced fitting AUR items being utilized by is the person who doesn't have all those fitting skills completely leveled up. Which again, I view more as an exchange of AUR for time, and as I've already stated I'm 100% OK with that.
Red at Math (Also Bad at Spelling) |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 11:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
As I stated in my post, I'm okay with the reduced skill requirements (Aur vs time) but the problem is they scale in a poor way. Level 1 gives you the advanced tier equivalents, which I think is too early. Level 2 gives you the prototype equivalents before you can even use the advanced. This is definitely improper. This unbalances the aur vs time as you're essentially skipping the entire mid tier with an incredibly minor sp investment. Advanced equivalent items should require at least level 2 and prototype should require no less than 4. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 23:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Post edited regarding aurum prices. |
Ile Faded
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2012.07.01 01:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Where are the BPOs for these items? Pssh |
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