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Maken Tosch DUST University 13781	Posted - 2017.06.21 17:18:00 - [1] - Quote It's really weird seeing the Overwatch community embrace the meta like a really overused meme. What they call the meta we often called it flavor of the month back in the golden days of Dust 514. Here in Dust 514 a lot of us often shunned those like witches in Salem for winning matches using the easiest setups possible. We have seen them all. Cloaky shotgun scouts, double/triple-stacked tanks, redline-loving commando snipers, blue bottle bunnies and OP fisters. We have seen them abuse it all here in Dust because it was just easy to win that way. At least here in Dust we appreciated the specialists because at least they proved to have skill and never backed down from a challenge. But in Overwatch, it's the other way around. You are ostracized for admitting to being a one-trick pony. For ** sake, Mercy mains are heavily criticized and that's before you get to my main (Hanzo). They don't like specialists. They want everyone to get in line and be peer pressured into following the meta (aka flavor of the month) even if the player being pressured in the team is not that good with the hero they are being pressured into using. I didn't see much of this happen even in Dust 514's Factional Warfare. But if you go to Overwatch and go into competitive, chosing Hanzo in there is like running for US President. No one will like you no matter how good you are. To them, teamwork only means switching heroes if they are being countered. To them they don't seem to understand the impact that coordination and communication has. Oh, you're getting pegged by Pharah? Switch to hitscan hero (McCree, Soldier, Widow). Doesn't matter if you have a way to mess up Pharah without having to switch. You MUST switch or else you get reported for throwing the match even though Blizzard specifically states on their reporting system that they will not ban anyone just because they refused to switch out of a specific hero. And it's very toxic over there. If you people though Dust 514 was toxic with all the "harden the ** up" mantra that we constantly chanted throughout the years here, wait until you look at the Overwatch community. It is so toxic I am almost tempted to call the Environmental Protection Agency because I can almost smell the chemicals from way over here. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9439	Posted - 2017.06.21 18:23:00 - [2] - Quote That's the cultural difference between only caring about easy wins vs wanting to be challenged and suffer in the process of getting your win. Project\|Nova - What We Know So Far
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Eternal Beings 4757	Posted - 2017.06.21 18:26:00 - [3] - Quote So it's a good thing i haven't purchased it yet. PSN SilentChaozz Autistic with extreme chronic pain. Hey, it's a rare one!
DeadlyAztec11 10231	Posted - 2017.06.21 19:02:00 - [4] - Quote The thing is, there is no customizability that affects gameplay in Overwatch. So you have to often play generalist type heroes because otherwise you tend to get destroyed by people that are playing generalists. Another thing is that specialists are often difficult to master and few in the community put time towards being good with them. So often you see that people who play a niche character tend to have little benefit to their team. Niche characters are often easy to counter as well, so on top of being very good those players have to have vast map awareness. They also have to have a very competent team to make up for their lack of versatility. This is extremely evident when two niche characters are on the same team. So if you have Hanzo and Junkrat on the same team they will often times be destroyed by flankers who are made to counter them. It doesn't help that Pharah is the only hero that can consistently hold a vertical threat and she directly counters most of the niche characters: Junkrat(mortar guy), Reaper (shotgun guy), Bastion (mini gun), Torbjorn (autonomous turret), Widowmaker (sniper), Hanzo (Bow & Arrow), Symmetra (multiple autonomous turrets). When she has permanent healing from Mercy she is almost unkillable unless she is killed by an insta kill shot. So if no one wants to deal with the only flying threat in Overwatch then your fight has ended before it starts. In regards to throwing, when you are reported enough for it moderators will go back and look at the code for tour matches and determine whether you were throwing or if you were simply playing an unpopular hero. They do this by looking at what activities you did (healing, damage, damage taken) and see if you were doing anything that may imply throwing, but hero choice is not a factor. Here is the caveat however, you don't need to listen to your teammates. You can play what you wish and there's nothing they can do about it. A small percentage will throw, but it's unlikely since throwing would only punish their SR worse than anyone else. In general they will have to deal with it. I know the struggle because I play a lot of Reaper, Torbjorn, Ana, Hanzo and Zenyatta so I deal with salty people constantly. I don't let it bother me since often times I generate the best score. I also don't have voice enabled LOL Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17237	Posted - 2017.06.21 19:02:00 - [5] - Quote That was a big reason I didn't end up getting the game after the beta. I was Genji all the way, but it was obvious that wouldn't work. Especially the times there were one or more Genjis on the team. I also think that our community skewed older, particularly early on. That certainly helps. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
DeadlyAztec11 10231	Posted - 2017.06.21 19:07:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: That's the cultural difference between only caring about easy wins vs wanting to be challenged and suffer in the process of getting your win. Except in Dust 514 often times there will be a lot of back and forth and the match will end closely or at least reasonably. However, Overwatch is much more team dependent since death is valued much higher than in Dust 514. In Dust 514 you can play without regarding your team and do well, so if you have one ding dong on your team it doesn't donk it up for everyone. However, in Overwatch having one incompetent guy on your team means 1/6 of your team is useless. So in Overwatch if you don't work with your team you are done. It's honestly that easy. If one player isn't carrying their own weight your team is handicapped. Matches also tend to be rather short if your team isn't working together, so there's very little time to fix your mistakes. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2807	Posted - 2017.06.21 20:08:00 - [7] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: In Dust 514 you can play without regarding your team and do well, so if you have one ding dong on your team it doesn't donk it up for everyone. H I would dispute. Even one player could change many things like : capturing the homepoint, keeping vehicles off the map, being the most noticeable. Of course there's no point in comparing 6v6 to 16v16, but if you could afford to slack in Dust that meant it wasn't a real battle (just saying). About the community. What is there to expect? A game that can draw in CoD players and such is deemed to be toxic Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
Maken Tosch DUST University 13784	Posted - 2017.06.21 20:09:00 - [8] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: That's the cultural difference between only caring about easy wins vs wanting to be challenged and suffer in the process of getting your win. Except in Dust 514 often times there will be a lot of back and forth and the match will end closely or at least reasonably. However, Overwatch is much more team dependent since death is valued much higher than in Dust 514. In Dust 514 you can play without regarding your team and do well, so if you have one ding dong on your team it doesn't donk it up for everyone. However, in Overwatch having one incompetent guy on your team means 1/6 of your team is useless. So in Overwatch if you don't work with your team you are done. It's honestly that easy. If one player isn't carrying their own weight your team is handicapped. Matches also tend to be rather short if your team isn't working together, so there's very little time to fix your mistakes. That is very true. Unfortunately a lot of the Overwatch players in the community (possibly vast majority) seem to believe that working together strictly means changing heroes. They want to force you into picking a different character even if doing so will hinder your performance. I have progressively racked up more and more kills per match as Hanzo as I have this regimen about doing 3 quick play matches followed by 1 competitive match. This is to warm me up and try something new before going into competitive. I have also been keeping close to my team pair up with certain heroes that compliment what I stick with. Surprisingly my experience has taught me that the vast majority of the hero lineup in Overwatch can work well with Hanzo and I have learned to overcome my own weaknesses while exploiting the weaknesses of the opponents. So yeah, I carry my own weight and often up up getting silver or gold eliminations recently. Right now there are just too many players that don't know how to use niche heroes well enough and so the community has this very big stigma towards anyone who uses them. At first the stigma was limited to competitive, but now I'm seeing it bleed over to quick play where players start telling me to get off my hero despite my contributions to the team as that hero. It's really selfish for them to try to force others to do something they don't want to do just because they want to win a match. At the end of the day, it's only a game and people paid money to play the game however they want (whether to win or have fun or both). I am not obligated to be jack of all trades in any game. I guess the Overwatch community just doesn't want anyone being a specialist and just wants everyone to follow the flavor of the month. Thankfully a lot of them stayed away from Dust 514. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University 13784	Posted - 2017.06.21 20:17:00 - [9] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: In Dust 514 you can play without regarding your team and do well, so if you have one ding dong on your team it doesn't donk it up for everyone. H I would dispute. Even one player could change many things like : capturing the homepoint, keeping vehicles off the map, being the most noticeable. Of course there's no point in comparing 6v6 to 16v16, but if you could afford to slack in Dust that meant it wasn't a real battle (just saying). About the community. What is there to expect? A game that can draw in CoD players and such is deemed to be toxic I remember most of my matches having players relaying critical intel to each other about enemy positions which helped a lot of the one-tricks in the team to work effectively. Scouts running around hacking stuff while the enemy if distracted. Sentinels and Commandos working with Repair Logis to push through a point.* etc. * - No one complained about the repair logis. Teamwork and communication has a much greater impact on the match than just simple picks but the Overwatch community refuses to believe that. It's a hopeless cause trying to convince these people. I just do my thing. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1319	Posted - 2017.06.21 21:27:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: That's the cultural difference between only caring about easy wins vs wanting to be challenged and suffer in the process of getting your win. Feels proud. SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial

Zatara Rought fatal absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 5609	Posted - 2017.06.22 05:50:00 - [11] - Quote Only problem i have with OW balance is that most of the time the answer a to soldier on the enemy team is getting your own soldier LOL. No matter what. FAmily Mercy may only be obtained in death. In other words; Fatal Absolution.
DeadlyAztec11 10237	Posted - 2017.06.22 15:52:00 - [12] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Only problem i have with OW balance is that most of the time the answer a to soldier on the enemy team is getting your own soldier LOL. Widowmaker works, D.Va works, Genji works, Tracer works, at medium distance McCree still works, Mei works, in CQC Junkrat works, Zenyatta works surprisingly well, in CQC Symmetra works, Zarya works well and Reaper works in CQC. Let's not forget that Mercy with Pharah tend to kill Soldier 76 in two rockets, so there's that. Reaper 4 lyfe Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Maken Tosch DUST University 13784	Posted - 2017.06.22 16:46:00 - [13] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Only problem i have with OW balance is that most of the time the answer a to soldier on the enemy team is getting your own soldier LOL. Call of Daddy Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 8196	Posted - 2017.06.22 19:28:00 - [14] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: It's really weird seeing the Overwatch community embrace the meta like a really overused meme. What they call the meta we often called it flavor of the month back in the golden days of Dust 514. Here in Dust 514 a lot of us often shunned those like witches in Salem for winning matches using the easiest setups possible. We have seen them all. Cloaky shotgun scouts, double/triple-stacked tanks, redline-loving commando snipers, blue bottle bunnies and OP fisters. We have seen them abuse it all here in Dust because it was just easy to win that way. At least here in Dust we appreciated the specialists because at least they proved to have skill and never backed down from a challenge. But in Overwatch, it's the other way around. You are ostracized for admitting to being a one-trick pony. For ** sake, Mercy mains are heavily criticized and that's before you get to my main (Hanzo). They don't like specialists. They want everyone to get in line and be peer pressured into following the meta (aka flavor of the month) even if the player being pressured in the team is not that good with the hero they are being pressured into using. I didn't see much of this happen even in Dust 514's Factional Warfare. But if you go to Overwatch and go into competitive, chosing Hanzo in there is like running for US President. No one will like you no matter how good you are. To them, teamwork only means switching heroes if they are being countered. To them they don't seem to understand the impact that coordination and communication has. Oh, you're getting pegged by Pharah? Switch to hitscan hero (McCree, Soldier, Widow). Doesn't matter if you have a way to mess up Pharah without having to switch. You MUST switch or else you get reported for throwing the match even though Blizzard specifically states on their reporting system that they will not ban anyone just because they refused to switch out of a specific hero. And it's very toxic over there. If you people though Dust 514 was toxic with all the "harden the ** up" mantra that we constantly chanted throughout the years here, wait until you look at the Overwatch community. It is so toxic I am almost tempted to call the Environmental Protection Agency because I can almost smell the chemicals from way over here. - OP fisters were funny. No matter how annoying you found them, you got to admit they were funny. Particularly the punching Sentinels. Besides, they had a very short range. - There was one example of much hate generated over which class you played in DUST, and that was playing a Sniper when there were already 3 or more Snipers on the field. - The Environmental Protection Agency has been so gutted and underfunded that they would not be able to clean up that toxic waste of a community even if you did report it. The EPA has really gone down hill since I worked there in the late 90's. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1966	Posted - 2017.06.23 21:30:00 - [15] - Quote You cant compare Overwatch with dust. Yeah sure they are both FPS games but on Overwatch you have everything unlocked from the get go, on dust however you had to grind for weeks to make significant progress. It is a much more team focused game where in Dust a single guy could carry hard. Besides the only roles in dust where shot' em or heal' em. Overwatch is more complex due to huge amount of abilitys. Tanks in overwatch can block damage for their team where the heavy in dust was just a dude with a bigger gun and more health. If anything i would compare Dust more towards a game like Battlefield. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Maken Tosch DUST University 13785	Posted - 2017.06.23 21:46:00 - [16] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: You cant compare Overwatch with dust. Yeah sure they are both FPS games but on Overwatch you have everything unlocked from the get go, on dust however you had to grind for weeks to make significant progress. It is a much more team focused game where in Dust a single guy could carry hard. Besides the only roles in dust where shot' em or heal' em. Overwatch is more complex due to huge amount of abilitys. Tanks in overwatch can block damage for their team where the heavy in dust was just a dude with a bigger gun and more health. If anything i would compare Dust more towards a game like Battlefield. Um, I never saw anyone carry a team in Dust. Overwatch, however, there's Pharmercy. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
d1wholive 8 D7SEAL 3	Posted - 2017.06.23 21:54:00 - [17] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFTUazuGdTw
DUST Fiend 19285	Posted - 2017.06.23 23:49:00 - [18] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Um, I never saw anyone carry a team in Dust. Overwatch, however, there's Pharmercy. Less tears, more Soldier Also, you never saw anyone carry in DUST? Were we playing the same game? Most matches were 1 to 3 strong performers and then a bakers dozen of idiots barely scraping by with 1 kd
DeadlyAztec11 10237	Posted - 2017.06.24 04:22:00 - [19] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Um, I never saw anyone carry a team in Dust. Overwatch, however, there's Pharmercy. Less tears, more Soldier Also, you never saw anyone carry in DUST? Were we playing the same game? Most matches were 1 to 3 strong performers and then a bakers dozen of idiots barely scraping by with 1 kd Yeah, I wish there had been competitive in Dust 514 because that would have helped out solo players and would have resulted in less salt overall. P.C. was sort of competitive, but since it was voluntary rather than forced by matchmaker a lot of the time your odds of winning would be pretty random. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1966	Posted - 2017.06.24 11:29:00 - [20] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Um, I never saw anyone carry a team in Dust. Overwatch, however, there's Pharmercy. Less tears, more Soldier Also, you never saw anyone carry in DUST? Were we playing the same game? Most matches were 1 to 3 strong performers and then a bakers dozen of idiots barely scraping by with 1 kd Yeah, I wish there had been competitive in Dust 514 because that would have helped out solo players and would have resulted in less salt overall. P.C. was sort of competitive, but since it was voluntary rather than forced by matchmaker a lot of the time your odds of winning would be pretty random. No it wasnt "random". Either you where in a top corp or you where cannonfodder its that simple. Thats aswell the reason why the higher end corps regulated the districts and allowed scrub corps to have 1~2 districts to screw around in skrim matches. But even then it wasnt because they where "nice guys" for giving a district to a random corp. This only happend because CCP removed passive ISK generation from districts which generated Billions of ISK and keeping too many districts was just annoying and not profitable anymore. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.

xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 3950	Posted - 2017.06.24 14:52:00 - [21] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: You cant compare Overwatch with dust. Yeah sure they are both FPS games but on Overwatch you have everything unlocked from the get go, on dust however you had to grind for weeks to make significant progress. It is a much more team focused game where in Dust a single guy could carry hard. Besides the only roles in dust where shot' em or heal' em. Overwatch is more complex due to huge amount of abilitys. Tanks in overwatch can block damage for their team where the heavy in dust was just a dude with a bigger gun and more health. If anything i would compare Dust more towards a game like Battlefield. Um, I never saw anyone carry a team in Dust. Overwatch, however, there's Pharmercy. Pharamercy duo is a bit broken on consoles, but still it's not enough to "carry" a team. My german friend here is right: in Overwatch you don't unlock anything, hence you have no real advantage over the opponent. Moreover it's not just a "I aim better than you" game and it's actually not so solo-friendly, especially in competitive. In fact if even one member of your team does not do his job or fail in squad composition, you'll have a hard time. Think about a squad with no healer: in dust you don't really "need" a determined number of logi to be in the sweet spot, while in Overwatch if you have none or if you have more than 2 you have very little chance to win. Same goes with tanks/heavies: more than 2/less than 1 = bad etc. The player count is also an important factor: in a 6 v 6 you can make far less mistakes than in a 16 v 16 or even 32 v 32. This just means that Overwatch is very squad dependent, whatever you choose, while Dust wasn't, and this means that you could "carry" in some ways (even tho I don't believe that you could really "carry" anything even in Dust) if you are a better overall player and if you have those advantages in terms of SP spended in a clever way. There's no carry, I believe it's actually the opposite: there are people who will make mistakes, and the team that overall makes less mistakes win. take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM] #PortDust514
Maken Tosch DUST University 13785	Posted - 2017.06.24 16:58:00 - [22] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: You cant compare Overwatch with dust. Yeah sure they are both FPS games but on Overwatch you have everything unlocked from the get go, on dust however you had to grind for weeks to make significant progress. It is a much more team focused game where in Dust a single guy could carry hard. Besides the only roles in dust where shot' em or heal' em. Overwatch is more complex due to huge amount of abilitys. Tanks in overwatch can block damage for their team where the heavy in dust was just a dude with a bigger gun and more health. If anything i would compare Dust more towards a game like Battlefield. Um, I never saw anyone carry a team in Dust. Overwatch, however, there's Pharmercy. Pharamercy duo is a bit broken on consoles, but still it's not enough to "carry" a team. My german friend here is right: in Overwatch you don't unlock anything, hence you have no real advantage over the opponent. Moreover it's not just a "I aim better than you" game and it's actually not so solo-friendly, especially in competitive. In fact if even one member of your team does not do his job or fail in squad composition, you'll have a hard time. Think about a squad with no healer: in dust you don't really "need" a determined number of logi to be in the sweet spot, while in Overwatch if you have none or if you have more than 2 you have very little chance to win. Same goes with tanks/heavies: more than 2/less than 1 = bad etc. The player count is also an important factor: in a 6 v 6 you can make far less mistakes than in a 16 v 16 or even 32 v 32. This just means that Overwatch is very squad dependent, whatever you choose, while Dust wasn't, and this means that you could "carry" in some ways (even tho I don't believe that you could really "carry" anything even in Dust) if you are a better overall player and if you have those advantages in terms of SP spended in a clever way. There's no carry, I believe it's actually the opposite: there are people who will make mistakes, and the team that overall makes less mistakes win. You seem to make a good point. But just to remind you that team composition isn't always needed. A few players from the Overwatch community said (though it's extremely rare) they were in a match where their team was so off-meta with a team composition that looked pre-destined to fail from the start but they managed to stomp the opposing team because they knew what they were doing and were coordinating effectively. It's one of those things that are often ignored because there are just way too many players who are not like them and thus people tend to assume that any random player they solo-queue with in competitive doesn't know what they are doing even if they invested over 40 hours with that particular hero. This is very similar to how we generally looked at blueberries in Dust 514 and, in some indirect way, made it feel like Overwatch had a character leveling system. That leveling system was your actual experience-based skill. From the very beginning you are a blueberry in Overwatch and you will go through a lot of rough times trying to get a handle on your hero. But over time you get better and better at using that hero and start developing strategies around it. From play to counter-play which is something the Overwatch community doesn't seem to fully understand. The vast majority of the community thinks teamwork, adapting or countering strictly means "switch your hero." When in reality it's much more than that. When you look at Junkrat vs Pharah you think Pharah wins hands down but people ignore the fact that Pharah is absolute crap inside confined spaces which is where Junkrat thrives. A skilled Junkrat can lure Pharah into those situations. To make this more effective, Junkrat can pair up with other heroes to cover each other's weakness. For example: Winston can hard counter Symmetra and Hanzo. But when Symmetra and Hanzo work together, Winston is as dead as Harambe especially when taking advantage of the limitations of Winston's Tesla Canon and bubble shield. All of this is called counter-play. Where you use the environment and using what the rest of your team has to offer to overcome the disadvantages that you have. Overwatch players in Grandmaster understand this. I have seen godly Genjis and Hanzos (Seagull), Widowmakers so skilled you'd think Deadshot was playing her, Attack Torbjorns and Junkrats that can get under your skin so much you go full tilt, Bastion players can make the Terminator proud. Unfortunately, such skilled players are only welcomed in Grandmaster. Drop below that and you become accused of throwing just for picking a specific hero (actual skills be damned). And believe me I have encountered players online who just didn't give a **** how many hours I invested in my main. He was just bad mouthing me from the beginning of the match and to the end. We could have won that match has he focused all that energy on actually trying to win and working with what's available in the team. But no. He just wasted his time and energy telling me how much I sucked and how I will be reported to Blizzard for throwing which brings me to the biggest irony in Competitive Overwatch. People accuse mains or one-tricks of throwing the match in competitive just for picking a specific hero even though most mains and one-tricks try to win, but then those same people go on comms and say "That's it! If that Widowmaker doesn't switch, I'm going to switch to Junkrat and jump off the cliff the rest of this match! Screw you! We all lost anyways!" <.< Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 3950	Posted - 2017.06.24 18:58:00 - [23] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: You seem to make a good point. But just to remind you that team composition isn't always needed. A few players from the Overwatch community said (though it's extremely rare) they were in a match where their team was so off-meta with a team composition that looked pre-destined to fail from the start but they managed to stomp the opposing team because they knew what they were doing and were coordinating effectively. It's one of those things that are often ignored because there are just way too many players who are not like them and thus people tend to assume that any random player they solo-queue with in competitive doesn't know what they are doing even if they invested over 40 hours with that particular hero. This is very similar to how we generally looked at blueberries in Dust 514 and, in some indirect way, made it feel like Overwatch had a character leveling system. That leveling system was your actual experience-based skill. From the very beginning you are a blueberry in Overwatch and you will go through a lot of rough times trying to get a handle on your hero. But over time you get better and better at using that hero and start developing strategies around it. From play to counter-play which is something the Overwatch community doesn't seem to fully understand. The vast majority of the community thinks teamwork, adapting or countering strictly means "switch your hero." When in reality it's much more than that. When you look at Junkrat vs Pharah you think Pharah wins hands down but people ignore the fact that Pharah is absolute crap inside confined spaces which is where Junkrat thrives. A skilled Junkrat can lure Pharah into those situations. To make this more effective, Junkrat can pair up with other heroes to cover each other's weakness. For example: Winston can hard counter Symmetra and Hanzo. But when Symmetra and Hanzo work together, Winston is as dead as Harambe especially when taking advantage of the limitations of Winston's Tesla Canon and bubble shield. All of this is called counter-play. Where you use the environment and using what the rest of your team has to offer to overcome the disadvantages that you have. Overwatch players in Grandmaster understand this. I have seen godly Genjis and Hanzos (Seagull), Widowmakers so skilled you'd think Deadshot was playing her, Attack Torbjorns and Junkrats that can get under your skin so much you go full tilt, Bastion players can make the Terminator proud. Unfortunately, such skilled players are only welcomed in Grandmaster. Drop below that and you become accused of throwing just for picking a specific hero (actual skills be damned). And believe me I have encountered players online who just didn't give a **** how many hours I invested in my main. He was just bad mouthing me from the beginning of the match and to the end. We could have won that match has he focused all that energy on actually trying to win and working with what's available in the team. But no. He just wasted his time and energy telling me how much I sucked and how I will be reported to Blizzard for throwing which brings me to the biggest irony in Competitive Overwatch. People accuse mains or one-tricks of throwing the match in competitive just for picking a specific hero even though most mains and one-tricks try to win, but then those same people go on comms and say "That's it! If that Widowmaker doesn't switch, I'm going to switch to Junkrat and jump off the cliff the rest of this match! Screw you! We all lost anyways!" <.< And I absolutely agree. I tend to have such behavior simply because although there are very skilled Widowmakers I tend to believe that if they're not at least Master they're not worth it. But, sure, if a Widowmaker knows what to do it would be as efficient (if not even more) than every other character. The fact is that if you're not playing in high master/grandmaster I sincerely doubt that widowmaker would achieve anything good simply because the rest of his/her team would not cooperate with that specific widowmaker. Same goes for Hanzo and all the other less picked characters...not to mention the language barrier in EU servers :/ I actually can communicate with western/eastern europeans since the vast majority of them speak english...but Eu server is not only for europeans, which wouldn't be a problem if all the other also spoke english...but they don't :( By the way you play on NA, right? What's your SR? And what about you, Mr. "Ordnung muss sein"? Do you still play Overwatch? take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM] #PortDust514
Maken Tosch DUST University 13786	Posted - 2017.06.24 19:02:00 - [24] - Quote There I am. https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/GrumpyKitten-115526 SR 1158 Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 3950	Posted - 2017.06.24 19:05:00 - [25] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: There I am. https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/GrumpyKitten-115526 SR 1158 Then, my friend, you are doomed to have ****** teams that won't cooperate. For at least other 1000 SR take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM] #PortDust514
Maken Tosch DUST University 13787	Posted - 2017.06.24 19:12:00 - [26] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: There I am. https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/GrumpyKitten-115526 SR 1158 Then, my friend, you are doomed to have ****** teams that won't cooperate. For at least other 1000 SR #BronzoLife Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University 13787	Posted - 2017.06.24 19:20:00 - [27] - Quote This brings me to what CCP Rattati can learn from all this for Project Nova. We have now seen how extremely toxic players can be with picks and meta heroes in Overwatch. I am hoping CCP Rattati does not create a competitive system that encourages players to stick to the meta. I would really like to see a competitive-level Project Nova where players don't need to rely on sticking to the flavor of the month just to progress in competitive and instead rely on their skills and how they coordinate with their teammates better. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
deadpool lifetone D3ATH CARD RUST415 359	Posted - 2017.06.24 19:37:00 - [28] - Quote . Dont ever dever ever compare a weak game like OverWatch to Dust514 lol seriously though , we ( smart guys ) had to do a bit of number crunching in dust back in the day with the spreadsheets to make o.p fits & pass it along . The beauty of it was that there were actual counter measures for each one . OverWatch doesn't even come close to the 'Meta' level of Dust . ( F U!!!! ) * ( Why Dead? ) , (n+Æn+Çn+¢´)GÇón++pâçGòÉS+ÇX - - - - n++(º Gûí º l\|l)/
Richard Gamerich-R Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 495	Posted - 2017.06.24 20:24:00 - [29] - Quote Ranked in Overwatch PC become more serious around plat/diamond, don't expect too much about your team before that. On va tout déchirer !
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 3951	Posted - 2017.06.24 22:29:00 - [30] - Quote Richard Gamerich-R wrote: Ranked in Overwatch PC become more serious around plat/diamond, don't expect too much about your team before that. I am between plat/diamond constantly and can confirm that a good 50% of the times squad compositions are not good...like at all. For example, I wouldn't define myself a good healer but I often have to pick Mercy or whetever the squad needs...just because I don't want to lose yet another match :/ And this would obviously be counterproductive since I'm playing a role that doesn't fit my playstyle. take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM] #PortDust514

Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2815	Posted - 2017.06.24 23:17:00 - [31] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: This brings me to what CCP Rattati can learn from all this for Project Nova. We have now seen how extremely toxic players can be with picks and meta heroes in Overwatch. I am hoping CCP Rattati does not create a competitive system that encourages players to stick to the meta. I would really like to see a competitive-level Project Nova where players don't need to rely on sticking to the flavor of the month just to progress in competitive and instead rely on their skills and how they coordinate with their teammates better. I don't think we should worry about this. Even in Dust, while fotm was a thing it wasn't necessary to compete on a serious level. There was a literal counter to everything. And now with the vehicles gone they have no excuse in terms of balance. Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
Maken Tosch DUST University 13788	Posted - 2017.06.24 23:42:00 - [32] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: This brings me to what CCP Rattati can learn from all this for Project Nova. We have now seen how extremely toxic players can be with picks and meta heroes in Overwatch. I am hoping CCP Rattati does not create a competitive system that encourages players to stick to the meta. I would really like to see a competitive-level Project Nova where players don't need to rely on sticking to the flavor of the month just to progress in competitive and instead rely on their skills and how they coordinate with their teammates better. I don't think we should worry about this. Even in Dust, while fotm was a thing it wasn't necessary to compete on a serious level. There was a literal counter to everything. And now with the vehicles gone they have no excuse in terms of balance. Pretty much. I couldn't possibly see vehicles being used in competitive modes for Project Nova. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University 13788	Posted - 2017.06.24 23:43:00 - [33] - Quote deadpool lifetone wrote: . Dont ever dever ever compare a weak game like OverWatch to Dust514 lol seriously though , we ( smart guys ) had to do a bit of number crunching in dust back in the day with the spreadsheets to make o.p fits & pass it along . The beauty of it was that there were actual counter measures for each one . OverWatch doesn't even come close to the 'Meta' level of Dust . Spreadsheets Online Spreadsheets 514 And now... Spreadsheets Nova Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University 13788	Posted - 2017.06.24 23:44:00 - [34] - Quote Richard Gamerich-R wrote: Ranked in Overwatch PC become more serious around plat/diamond, don't expect too much about your team before that. In the meantime, I will continue to play on as Hanzo being told to kill myself and be reported for throwing. Damn, suddenly getting suicide ganked in Eve Online sounds more pleasant. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17243	Posted - 2017.06.25 00:01:00 - [35] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: deadpool lifetone wrote: . Dont ever dever ever compare a weak game like OverWatch to Dust514 lol seriously though , we ( smart guys ) had to do a bit of number crunching in dust back in the day with the spreadsheets to make o.p fits & pass it along . The beauty of it was that there were actual counter measures for each one . OverWatch doesn't even come close to the 'Meta' level of Dust . Spreadsheets Online Spreadsheets 514 And now... Spreadsheets Nova *Spreadsheets Phoenix Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Radiant Pancake3 Y.A.M.A.H 4886	Posted - 2017.06.25 00:09:00 - [36] - Quote Yeahhhhhh, it's pretttttty bad. I main Symmetra doe. kekekeke. "A quantum super computer, calculating for a thousand years, could not even approach the number of fucks I do not give."
Radiant Pancake3 Y.A.M.A.H 4886	Posted - 2017.06.25 00:11:00 - [37] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Richard Gamerich-R wrote: Ranked in Overwatch PC become more serious around plat/diamond, don't expect too much about your team before that. I am between plat/diamond constantly and can confirm that a good 50% of the times squad compositions are not good...like at all. For example, I wouldn't define myself a good healer but I often have to pick Mercy or whetever the squad needs...just because I don't want to lose yet another match :/ And this would obviously be counterproductive since I'm playing a role that doesn't fit my playstyle. This. "A quantum super computer, calculating for a thousand years, could not even approach the number of fucks I do not give."
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 3952	Posted - 2017.06.25 01:42:00 - [38] - Quote Radiant Pancake3 wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Richard Gamerich-R wrote: Ranked in Overwatch PC become more serious around plat/diamond, don't expect too much about your team before that. I am between plat/diamond constantly and can confirm that a good 50% of the times squad compositions are not good...like at all. For example, I wouldn't define myself a good healer but I often have to pick Mercy or whetever the squad needs...just because I don't want to lose yet another match :/ And this would obviously be counterproductive since I'm playing a role that doesn't fit my playstyle. This. Today I tried to be a bit more stubborn than usual. Results: played 5 matches, 4 times without healer and one match with only one tank (me). Needless to say, all of them lost. take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM] #PortDust514
Radiant Pancake3 Y.A.M.A.H 4886	Posted - 2017.06.25 01:51:00 - [39] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Richard Gamerich-R wrote: Ranked in Overwatch PC become more serious around plat/diamond, don't expect too much about your team before that. I am between plat/diamond constantly and can confirm that a good 50% of the times squad compositions are not good...like at all. For example, I wouldn't define myself a good healer but I often have to pick Mercy or whetever the squad needs...just because I don't want to lose yet another match :/ And this would obviously be counterproductive since I'm playing a role that doesn't fit my playstyle. This. Today I tried to be a bit more stubborn than usual. Results: played 5 matches, 4 times without healer and one match with only one tank (me). Needless to say, all of them lost. I play anything but the tank role... well I have someone I like to main for everyone but the tank role. "A quantum super computer, calculating for a thousand years, could not even approach the number of fucks I do not give."
Shotty GoBang Nos Nothi 4917	Posted - 2017.06.25 17:31:00 - [40] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: They don't like specialists. They want everyone to get in line and be peer pressured into following the meta (aka flavor of the month) ... I didn't see much of this happen ... in Dust Killer Bees + Duvolles in early Uprising comes to mind. Heavies were terrible. Scouts were terrible. Assaults were outmatched by HP-tanked Logi. IIRC Killer Bees were remedied within a couple builds following Uprising's release, but AR-514 lasted quite awhile longer (1yr?) o7

DeadlyAztec11 10238	Posted - 2017.06.25 19:39:00 - [41] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: There I am. https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/GrumpyKitten-115526 SR 1158 https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/DeadlyAztec11?mode=competitive Yo, SR 4182 right here. Things won't get much better the higher you go. There will be more people that understand how to play, but cooperation never really becomes standard. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 3954	Posted - 2017.06.25 20:20:00 - [42] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: There I am. https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/GrumpyKitten-115526 SR 1158 https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/DeadlyAztec11?mode=competitive Yo, SR 4182 right here. Things won't get much better the higher you go. There will be more people that understand how to play, but cooperation never really becomes standard. Aren't you basically forced to cooperate in GM? take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM] #PortDust514
Maken Tosch DUST University 13788	Posted - 2017.06.25 23:36:00 - [43] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: There I am. https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/GrumpyKitten-115526 SR 1158 https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/DeadlyAztec11?mode=competitive Yo, SR 4182 right here. Things won't get much better the higher you go. There will be more people that understand how to play, but cooperation never really becomes standard. Aren't you basically forced to cooperate in GM? That would be the only time I would ever cooperate which is why I have a backup main that I play once in a while to refresh myself. Once I get to GM I won't have any other goal and thus will be more inclined to switch. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1966	Posted - 2017.06.26 01:40:00 - [44] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: There I am. https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/GrumpyKitten-115526 SR 1158 https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/DeadlyAztec11?mode=competitive Yo, SR 4182 right here. Things won't get much better the higher you go. There will be more people that understand how to play, but cooperation never really becomes standard. Aren't you basically forced to cooperate in GM? Good joke, the only reason why teamplay is better at GM is that we usually know how to play. Except fo the one trick ponys which i despite. Espacially mercy mains are basically SR leechers. Oh btw: https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/Dark-Cloud666?mode=competitive Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17245	Posted - 2017.06.26 02:31:00 - [45] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: There I am. https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/GrumpyKitten-115526 SR 1158 https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/DeadlyAztec11?mode=competitive Yo, SR 4182 right here. Things won't get much better the higher you go. There will be more people that understand how to play, but cooperation never really becomes standard. Aren't you basically forced to cooperate in GM? Good joke, the only reason why teamplay is better at GM is that we usually know how to play. Except fo the one trick ponys which i despite. Espacially mercy mains are basically SR leechers. Oh btw: https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/Dark-Cloud666?mode=competitive I despite people too Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 3955	Posted - 2017.06.26 03:28:00 - [46] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: There I am. https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/GrumpyKitten-115526 SR 1158 https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/DeadlyAztec11?mode=competitive Yo, SR 4182 right here. Things won't get much better the higher you go. There will be more people that understand how to play, but cooperation never really becomes standard. Aren't you basically forced to cooperate in GM? Good joke, the only reason why teamplay is better at GM is that we usually know how to play. Except fo the one trick ponys which i despite. Espacially mercy mains are basically SR leechers. Oh btw: https://www.overbuff.com/players/psn/Dark-Cloud666?mode=competitive Always better than no healer if you ask me Look at that Zenyatta tho. take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM] #PortDust514
CommanderBolt Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 4273	Posted - 2017.07.03 16:52:00 - [47] - Quote Summed up it pretty much speaks volumes. Dust was competitive but never stopped being about fun first. At least there were many fools like me who used odd stuff because it was our fun go to "thing". (for me forge gun frontline work and plc scouting, always enjoyed that even when RR`s and CR`s were the hot flavour of the month) Too many games now are all trying to cash in on the DOTA / LOL competitive esports scene. While I like some bits of that scene I find the overall game industry push to make everything an ESPORT is taking the fun out of games and turning them all into jobs. Blehh but then I grew up in the 90`s with Sega and Snes so times have changed i guess. This is the turning point, the rising of the tide. No fear inside
Michael Arck 6358	Posted - 2017.07.04 07:15:00 - [48] - Quote The problem? Bringing a Dust merc to a kid's birthday party. They use bats to break pinatas, not mass drivers. Seriously, Ive had fun moments in OW but since summer started its been bad over there. So now Im just hauling cargo in Elite because I am a console peasant. You hear that, CCP?! I rather be dropping a nanohive!! Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Verasictorus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2017.07.04 15:43:00 - [49] - Quote it's because overwatch players are ******* stupid. tbh it's that simple


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