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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8174
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Posted - 2017.06.08 14:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Regardless of how the stealth vs sensors mechanic is setup in Nova, I think there should also be a line of sight spotting mechanic.
In short, if someone on your team passes their cross hairs over an enemy player, that player should show on the Tac-Net until it breaks line of sight with the person who spotted them, regardless of relative sensor strength (unless cloaked). Or if the GÇ£breaks line of sightGÇ¥ is too complicated to code, then have them show up for 3 seconds after they are no longer in the cross hairs.
This provides another contribution to the battle for Snipers and Scouts. It means that Scouts can really scout. An infiltrator can do more than hack, they can also let their team know where the enemy are located.
I think spotting should require that the cross hairs pass over the person so that the mechanic is dependent on a player actually paying attention, rather than just happening to look in the right direction. From an RP perspective, the visual threat analysis tagging sensors are part of the gun sights. Once the target is tagged your suit sensors track it until you lose visual contact.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9414
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Posted - 2017.06.08 14:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Complete agree. Your suit is capable of tracking the location of a visible target regardless of sensor stregnth or dampening. If I can tell where something is with the naked eye, I certainly hope a futuristic exosuit can visually track something location too.
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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TooMany Names AlreadyTaken
Going for the gold
4673
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Posted - 2017.06.08 14:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
R.I.P. people with weak pc's and their reduced render distance.
#NekosForLife GÄ¥GùÑGû¦GÇ+GÇ+GùÇGùñGÄá
When you think about it, nekos are like upgraded humans
Alma is a psycho I swear, send help
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
2796
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Posted - 2017.06.08 15:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't know about this.
Seeing someone =/= pin-pointing his exact geographical location.
There is no real need for this. You have passive and active scans for such things.
Quote:I certainly hope a futuristic exosuit...
I would hope my bullets had some lethal toxin in them, or a tracing device. Well, they don't.
Quote:visually track something location too [...] regardless of sensor stregnth or dampening
You are not going to measure distance with a laser if the laser beam doesn't reflect back.
You are not going to target something with echolocation if the object absorbs the sound.
Similarly you are not going to track someone's exosuit simply by looking at it.
Vigilant Pilot
Happy Hunting
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byte modal
1352
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Posted - 2017.06.08 15:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
*EDIT*
after rereading OP, I may have misread. i address that later on now, but still feel the first para or two are relevant for context to help clarify the roles and separation of those roles.
....
Idunno.
There's a weakness either way. I mean, I could just ballerina twirl in a zone hoping my crosshairs randomly pass over someone who's hiding behind something, sitting still, while only partially exposed. I might not have seen him, but my crosshairs sure will! Huh. Reminds me of old DUST scanner days :)
Just making a point here.
if I am fired upon though, I would be ok with a brief "ping" type locator pop up on my display. I can buy that my suit's tech could triangulate the source location of incoming fire. Just a 3-second dot illumination on the mini map. MAYBE if I maintain visual contact, then that dot stays illuminated, but that starts to slide into the issue above. Shared intel might be based on some skill level. Something like each skill level (or however it ends up working in NOVA) would increase the data share radius for your squad---just within squad. This could be a subtle encouragement to keep players in formation and close. Also, if other non-squad players are nearby, they will not get your shared data stream, but they should be able to use their senses of sight and sound to figure out that 5 people are shooting at some random crate stack, probably for good reason. Maybe they should then join in?
I would not want that intel automatically beaming to a sniping sitting on the other side of the map though as I think that would be too easy for the sniper and would lead to a very lazy method of situational awareness on their part. BUT... if I am taking fire, and a red dot pings on my mini map. I can then visually scan the area, hopefully determine that the shooter is behind a crate, and describe the scenario to my snipe via comms, "Shooter at my SIX, behind cover!" Ideally, the sniper (and all squad members) will always have directional chevrons of each squad member on the mini map. Sniper hears the callout, is already aware of you and your squad's location AND facing direction, does a quick mental click on what MY "six" is and now he's in action. If that sniper is any good and has been tracking my squad, then he should be able to find the crate as I describe and fire. Assuming they have line of site. This should be exciting for the sniper to both follow squad locations and be aware of their own surroundings. But I guess it all depends on how squads and individuals wish to use sniper roles, if they exist as we assume.
Or her. I don't mean to be sexist.
Now if you're talking only for sniper roles, then that may change things. Still, I think the above is necessary to draw a distinction between role mechanics. I like the idea of a sniper and/or a scout having a unique ability that general suits might not have however that distinction is played out. A mod unique to that suit type? Iderno. But I would not like it if any joe running around randomly could just randomly ping a hidden red because of ...cross hairs.
Maybe that could be a one-way data stream then? If a sniper (zoomed) spots a red, then the squad is alerted. A sniper would already be actively looking for reds, if in a zoomed scope, so I don't see any issue in that specific context for just a cross hair triggering an alert of some kind, and that info then being relayed to the squad. But not the other way around for reasons mentioned.
Not sure how a scout would play out. I guess it really depends on how CCP defines scout.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9415
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Posted - 2017.06.08 15:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:
You are not going to measure distance with a laser if the laser beam doesn't reflect back.
You are not going to target something with echolocation if the object absorbs the sound.
Similarly you are not going to track someone's exosuit simply by looking at it.
Are you telling me a dropsuit can't track the distance to a given object? Cause pointing my gun at something certainly did in DUST.
So if I know my location, I know the vector of where I'm looking, and I know the distance. I can absolutely tell you where something is.
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
17219
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Posted - 2017.06.08 15:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Except there are no Scouts in Nova.
We are called Infiltrators now so we don't have to put up with ridiculous role expectations based on some people's perception of what it means to "Scout."
As to the idea, I am not opposed to it being used for everyone provided it is not a major problem. We saw in Dust how tacnet and EWAR could sometimes be too powerful (stupid shared scans I loathed). Some people, rightly or wrongly, even considered them wall hacks.
As long as it can be done responsibily I am for it.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
2797
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Posted - 2017.06.08 16:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Mejt0 wrote:
You are not going to measure distance with a laser if the laser beam doesn't reflect back.
You are not going to target something with echolocation if the object absorbs the sound.
Similarly you are not going to track someone's exosuit simply by looking at it.
Are you telling me a dropsuit can't track the distance to a given object? Cause pointing my gun at something certainly did in DUST. So if I know my location, I know the vector of where I'm looking, and I know the distance. I can absolutely tell you where something is.
In Dust, you looking at someone didn't place them on tacnet.
If you see someone and consider it a valid information you speak out loud about it.
You swirling around revealing enemy location doesn't make much sense.
Vigilant Pilot
Happy Hunting
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byte modal
1352
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Posted - 2017.06.08 17:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
@Fox:
Are you speaking specifically to sniper roles? Or is this for general purpose, every-suit, tech?
I think we all may be talking from two different points of view here.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1937
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Posted - 2017.06.08 17:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Mejt0 wrote:
You are not going to measure distance with a laser if the laser beam doesn't reflect back.
You are not going to target something with echolocation if the object absorbs the sound.
Similarly you are not going to track someone's exosuit simply by looking at it.
Are you telling me a dropsuit can't track the distance to a given object? Cause pointing my gun at something certainly did in DUST. So if I know my location, I know the vector of where I'm looking, and I know the distance. I can absolutely tell you where something is. In Dust, you looking at someone didn't place them on tacnet. If you see someone and consider it a valid information you speak out loud about it. You swirling around revealing enemy location doesn't make much sense.
No, but "in Dust" really isn't a good argument... I mean, "In Dust" tanks could occasionally fly.
I think if you limit the range that this triggers at, it could be less easy to abuse it... Since if you run into an area of 5 enemies and start spinning around like a loony... You're gonna get shot, so just how useful that maneuver was is debatable.
Also, not everyone uses a mic, so sharing info with the person sat next to you trying to read a book isn't always that useful. |
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
2797
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Posted - 2017.06.08 18:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:
No, but "in Dust" really isn't a good argument... I mean, "In Dust" tanks could occasionally fly.
I think if you limit the range that this triggers at, it could be less easy to abuse it... Since if you run into an area of 5 enemies and start spinning around like a loony... You're gonna get shot, so just how useful that maneuver was is debatable.
Also, not everyone uses a mic, so sharing info with the person sat next to you trying to read a book isn't always that useful.
If you didn't follow, I used "in dust" argument because Dust was brought into question. So that's that 
Squeezing this in between abusable > - > non abusable will provide more work than benefit.
Maybe, maybe if they want to give some extra meaning behind snipers (which I doubt) they can give them the ability to tag people.
Lone wolves don't need to share info. Those who play in squads are likely going to have a mic.
We should consider the majority of cases, not the minority.
After all, sharing such info is optional. You can do it for benefit to your team or keep it for yourself.
Vigilant Pilot
Happy Hunting
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DiablosMajora
464
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Posted - 2017.06.08 18:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
In Planetside 2, if you tagged something you were looking at with "Q" they would remain on the tac-net until LOS was broken by (I believe) any/all players looking at them; if the spotted target then hid/cloaked, they disappeared until "spotted" again.
Prepare your angus
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
1170
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Posted - 2017.06.08 18:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
DiablosMajora wrote:In Planetside 2, if you tagged something you were looking at with "Q" they would remain on the tac-net until LOS was broken by (I believe) any/all players looking at them; if the spotted target then hid/cloaked, they disappeared until "spotted" again.
PS2 simply has a spot button that you can press when an enemy is center-screen. Your character does a voice line of what you spotted (heard by all nearby), and the enemy's position + orientation is tracked on the minimap and has a chevron over them for 10 seconds. Cloaking will break a spot.
Not a bad system.
In terms of the rest of the stealth gameplay... PS2's recon is based on motion detection. So crouch-walking or standing still keeps you off the radar if you're in range of recon equipment.
Personally I preferred Dust's scan profile stuff. More loadout considerations to make.
"Stab you to death, stab you to life!"
-Truck Fist while knifing a red and reviving me
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Moorian Flav
691
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Posted - 2017.06.08 19:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Scan profile was good in DUST. Something that I felt was always missing was a deployable similar to a nanohive where if you were within range, your scan profile was reduced making you less likely to be picked up by scans. That way, even Sentinels could possibly be hidden from some scans within a tight knit squad.
Furthermore, when it comes to deployables, I never understood why they never stuck to surfaces or at least had variants that would stick to surfaces. Having hives and links always on the ground made them easy to pop. If deployables stuck to surfaces, they could be used more tactically. As Nova is said to be in space on the outside of ships, it would seem pretty necessary for all deployables in Nova to stick.
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8175
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Posted - 2017.06.08 19:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Quote:visually track something location too [...] regardless of sensor stregnth or dampening You are not going to measure distance with a laser if the laser beam doesn't reflect back. You are not going to target something with echolocation if the object absorbs the sound. Similarly you are not going to track someone's exosuit simply by looking at it.
If a measuring laser does not reflect back then that would mean your target is cloaked. No visual tracking of cloaked targets. That was alluded to in my post.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1937
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Posted - 2017.06.08 19:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:If you didn't follow, I used "in dust" argument because Dust was brought into question. So that's that
I did, it was aimed at both of you ^ ^.
Mejt0 wrote:
Squeezing this in between abusable > - > non abusable will provide more work than benefit.
I don't see it being that difficult, most fps games have the cross-hair change colour when pointing at something (avoids temptation to use "in dust" argument, lol.) So a simple if statement checking range and cloaked will do the trick... I wouldn't personally bother varying it based on suits or modules, because if you see it you know it's there no matter how much power it's using or sound it's making, also gives scouts a reason to sneak up behind people.
Mejt0 wrote:
Lone wolves don't need to share info. Those who play in squads are likely going to have a mic.
We should consider the majority of cases, not the minority.
After all, sharing such info is optional. You can do it for benefit to your team or keep it for yourself.
I'm not likely to disregard myself, that would be silly.
With Rattati's aim to get everyone fighting for a win rather than for ourselves it seems a little pointless to give the decision of sharing info.
Also pub matches rarely had an active team chat... So sharing info with the team isn't always possible with a mic. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8175
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 19:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
byte modal wrote:
Idunno.
There's a weakness either way. I mean, I could just ballerina twirl in a zone hoping my crosshairs randomly pass over someone who's hiding behind something, sitting still, while only partially exposed. I might not have seen him, but my crosshairs sure will! Huh. Reminds me of old DUST scanner days :)
I am not apposed to having to the hold the target in the cross hairs for half a second to get the lock. I actually think that is a good idea, to insure intent rather than than just randomly passing your cross hairs over someone in the distance you did not notice.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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byte modal
1352
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Posted - 2017.06.08 19:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:byte modal wrote:
Idunno.
There's a weakness either way. I mean, I could just ballerina twirl in a zone hoping my crosshairs randomly pass over someone who's hiding behind something, sitting still, while only partially exposed. I might not have seen him, but my crosshairs sure will! Huh. Reminds me of old DUST scanner days :)
I am not apposed to having to the hold the target in the cross hairs for half a second to get the lock. I actually think that is a good idea, to insure intent rather than than just randomly passing your cross hairs over someone in the distance you did not notice.
So are you speaking to general suit use, or sniper-specific? Or whatever role/class/suit/thingy that CCP ends up creating?
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
10902
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Posted - 2017.06.08 19:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
I like it.
Do you suggest a single track, or multiple tracks?
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1507
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Posted - 2017.06.08 21:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
byte modal wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:byte modal wrote:
Idunno.
There's a weakness either way. I mean, I could just ballerina twirl in a zone hoping my crosshairs randomly pass over someone who's hiding behind something, sitting still, while only partially exposed. I might not have seen him, but my crosshairs sure will! Huh. Reminds me of old DUST scanner days :)
I am not apposed to having to the hold the target in the cross hairs for half a second to get the lock. I actually think that is a good idea, to insure intent rather than than just randomly passing your cross hairs over someone in the distance you did not notice. So are you speaking to general suit use, or sniper-specific? Or whatever role/class/suit/thingy that CCP ends up creating?
I would've preferred this to be sniper specific. snipers really had nothing useful to offer unless you were on comms with them and they were calling/tracking targets verbally. But then language barriers often caused issues.
This is a quality of life improvement for a class/role.
everyone else is most likely going to be close enough for dropsuit scans or active scanner to pick up everything else in bulk. |
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
17224
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Posted - 2017.06.08 22:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Perhaps this could be something tied the the Sniper Rifle as opposed to anything else? Maybe even tied to a particular scope, or class of scopes so that it is an earned skill, and not simply something anyone picking up a civilian suit can wear.
That will make it less likely to be an abusive mechanic.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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deadpool lifetone
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
357
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Posted - 2017.06.09 08:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
.
Different variables should go in to play....distance, reaction time, spotting time, dropsuit types, dampening, precision etc etc....
.
( F U!!!! ) * ( Why Dead? )
,
(n+Æn+Çn+¢´)GÇón++pâçGòÉS+ÇX - - - - n++(º Gûí º l|l)/
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8177
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Posted - 2017.06.09 12:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Except there are no Scouts in Nova.
We are called Infiltrators now so we don't have to put up with ridiculous role expectations based on some people's perception of what it means to "Scout."
As to the idea, I am not opposed to it being used for everyone provided it is not a major problem. We saw in Dust how tacnet and EWAR could sometimes be too powerful (stupid shared scans I loathed). Some people, rightly or wrongly, even considered them wall hacks.
As long as it can be done responsibily I am for it.
Well, we are talking about visual spotting, which by definition does not include people behind walls. I am not talking about E-War and scanners and such. I am talking about using the range finding sensors on your weapon to tag someone you can see and transmit their location. The only E-War component is that your sensors would not be able to lock onto the location of someone who is cloaked even if you can make out their outline as they are running.
The E-War stuff such as active and passive scanners etc. would be a completely separate mechanic, which I am not discussing in this thread.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8177
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Posted - 2017.06.09 12:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
byte modal wrote:@Fox:
Are you speaking specifically to sniper roles? Or is this for general purpose, every-suit, tech?
I think we all may be talking from two different points of view here.
I am talking everyone. Snipers are just in a position to see more of the battlefield.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8177
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 12:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Mejt0 wrote:
You are not going to measure distance with a laser if the laser beam doesn't reflect back.
You are not going to target something with echolocation if the object absorbs the sound.
Similarly you are not going to track someone's exosuit simply by looking at it.
Are you telling me a dropsuit can't track the distance to a given object? Cause pointing my gun at something certainly did in DUST. So if I know my location, I know the vector of where I'm looking, and I know the distance. I can absolutely tell you where something is. In Dust, you looking at someone didn't place them on tacnet. If you see someone and consider it a valid information you speak out loud about it. You swirling around revealing enemy location doesn't make much sense.
Yup, that was one of the biggest problems with DUST.
For the longest time we thought that having people in your sights put them on the Tac-Net, but it turned out not to be true.
And only the Squad Leader had the ability to mark an enemy player. It was a big problem.
The only compass barrings in the heads up display was an "N" on the edge of the mini map, without even an E, S, or W, and certainly no azimuth number. If the enemy was not due North it was a pain to try to estimate and relay their direction.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8177
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Posted - 2017.06.09 12:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Mejt0 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Mejt0 wrote:
You are not going to measure distance with a laser if the laser beam doesn't reflect back.
You are not going to target something with echolocation if the object absorbs the sound.
Similarly you are not going to track someone's exosuit simply by looking at it.
Are you telling me a dropsuit can't track the distance to a given object? Cause pointing my gun at something certainly did in DUST. So if I know my location, I know the vector of where I'm looking, and I know the distance. I can absolutely tell you where something is. In Dust, you looking at someone didn't place them on tacnet. If you see someone and consider it a valid information you speak out loud about it. You swirling around revealing enemy location doesn't make much sense. No, but "in Dust" really isn't a good argument... I mean, "In Dust" tanks could occasionally fly. I think if you limit the range that this triggers at, it could be less easy to abuse it... Since if you run into an area of 5 enemies and start spinning around like a loony... You're gonna get shot, so just how useful that maneuver was is debatable. Also, not everyone uses a mic, so sharing info with the person sat next to you trying to read a book isn't always that useful.
I had thought about limiting range, but then realized it was not necessary. I do think that requiring you to hold the target in your sights for half a second to tag them is necessary to prevent tagging enemies that you did not actually see, but the range aspect is limited by the reduced size of distant objects. It is hard to track distant objects in your cross hairs for half a second unless they are still.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8177
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Posted - 2017.06.09 12:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:DiablosMajora wrote:In Planetside 2, if you tagged something you were looking at with "Q" they would remain on the tac-net until LOS was broken by (I believe) any/all players looking at them; if the spotted target then hid/cloaked, they disappeared until "spotted" again. PS2 simply has a spot button that you can press when an enemy is center-screen. Your character does a voice line of what you spotted (heard by all nearby), and the enemy's position + orientation is tracked on the minimap and has a chevron over them for 10 seconds. Cloaking will break a spot. Not a bad system.
I would be fine with the mechanic working that way. I never played PS2.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8177
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Posted - 2017.06.09 12:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:
I would've preferred this to be sniper specific. snipers really had nothing useful to offer unless you were on comms with them and they were calling/tracking targets verbally. But then language barriers often caused issues.
This is a quality of life improvement for a class/role.
everyone else is most likely going to be close enough for dropsuit scans or active scanner to pick up everything else in bulk.
I am proposing it for every class/suit. But that does not change the fact that it makes snipers more useful to the team. Anyone who is in a position with a good field of vision will be able to spot enemy movements better than the guys down in the weeds and tight corridors.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8177
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Perhaps this could be something tied the the Sniper Rifle as opposed to anything else? Maybe even tied to a particular scope, or class of scopes so that it is an earned skill, and not simply something anyone picking up a civilian suit can wear.
That will make it less likely to be an abusive mechanic.
Would someone care to explain to me how this mechanic could be abused? Because I am not seeing it.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8177
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
deadpool lifetone wrote:.
Different variables should go in to play....distance, reaction time, spotting time, dropsuit types, dampening, precision etc etc....
.
Dude. Can you see the bloody suit or not?
If you can tell someone using a mic where an enemy merc is located, you should also be able to tag that merc's location for that Russian, or Italian guy in your party, and the guy with no mic should also be able to tag their location for the people he is playing with as well.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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byte modal
1352
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
I would've preferred this to be sniper specific. snipers really had nothing useful to offer unless you were on comms with them and they were calling/tracking targets verbally. But then language barriers often caused issues.
This is a quality of life improvement for a class/role.
everyone else is most likely going to be close enough for dropsuit scans or active scanner to pick up everything else in bulk.
I am proposing it for every class/suit. But that does not change the fact that it makes snipers more useful to the team. Anyone who is in a position with a good field of vision will be able to spot enemy movements better than the guys down in the weeds and tight corridors.
Yeah. I wrote to this very thing in my longer first response on page one. I'm all for making snipers more useful than just hide and snipe. I go into more detail as to why it might be too much for general suit use though.
thanks for the reply earlier btw.
:)
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
2799
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
They already left vehicles behind. Leaving snipers behind would end their miserable existance
Scans are already there to do the job. Feel free to take one with you. Or use modules. That's the whole point of Ewar, isn't it?
Vigilant Pilot
Happy Hunting
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byte modal
1352
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
That makes sense too.
hurum.... on the other hand, seeing someone who is dampened doesn't change the fact that I can see them with my eyes.
Assuming we are still using a TACNET system like how it worked in DUST, I would be ok lighting him on up on screen IF I SAW HIM first... and lighting him up required something more than just dumb luck on my part. Tagging him as a target, holding scope over him for a period of time to active some type of "lock" to THEN highlight his position (as long as he stays in visual), or some other method. I'm not detailing, just trying to throw broad thoughts out for ideas.
I'd argue that even though you may be dampened to hell and back screwing my TACNET awareness, if you're not making an effort to physically hide from being visually spotted, then all the dampening in the world shouldn't stop me from targeting you. At least for as long as I can see you. Once you are targeted, I have no issue with that being shared in squad (at least as I limit it in my first post going into all that). Jump behind a corner where no one in squad has eyes-on, then you drop from TACNET. As you should. Maybe with a slight delay being that you were just targeted. Perhaps the software can speculate your next few steps based on your most recent trajectory, so even though you're in the shadows I can still see a fading blip for a moment until my system can no longer estimate where you might be.
Your dampening mods are still keeping you off TACNET.
Get lazy and step into the light where someone might see you? They can then see you, so all bets are off.
...until you step back into the shadows where dampeners can do their job.
*Edit*
still leaning to just a sniper function though.
derno.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8177
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Since you referenced this post again, let me address it in detail.
byte modal wrote:
Idunno.
There's a weakness either way. I mean, I could just ballerina twirl in a zone hoping my crosshairs randomly pass over someone who's hiding behind something, sitting still, while only partially exposed. I might not have seen him, but my crosshairs sure will! Huh. Reminds me of old DUST scanner days :)
Just making a point here.
As I said addressing this part earlier, I agree the ballerina twirl is not what we want. I added an edit to my OP saying you have to pause with the enemy targeted to tag them. And I don't mean just somewhere in your cross hairs, I mean the center pixel in your cross hairs needs to be on the enemy for half a second.
This would mean that anyone you shoot at will be flagged for your team, but sometimes you don't want to shoot because you don't want them to know you are there, but you do want your team to know that they are there.
byte modal wrote:
if I am fired upon though, I would be ok with a brief "ping" type locator pop up on my display. I can buy that my suit's tech could triangulate the source location of incoming fire. Just a 3-second dot illumination on the mini map. MAYBE if I maintain visual contact, then that dot stays illuminated, but that starts to slide into the issue above. Shared intel might be based on some skill level. Something like each skill level (or however it ends up working in NOVA) would increase the data share radius for your squad---just within squad. This could be a subtle encouragement to keep players in formation and close. Also, if other non-squad players are nearby, they will not get your shared data stream, but they should be able to use their senses of sight and sound to figure out that 5 people are shooting at some random crate stack, probably for good reason. Maybe they should then join in?
Now I disagree with you there. I think it would be a lot easier for your suit to identify the position of someone you have in your sights, than someone that is shooting at you from behind. I am fine with something indicating what side of your body is being hit, but I don't see a good reason to mark the enemy that is shooting at you. You need to look in that direction and find them yourself.
As to skills effecting what gets communicated, I suppose that by default spotting someone could just flag them as enemy, while if you train up skills you could also tag them with suit type, or the direction they are facing.
byte modal wrote:
I would not want that intel automatically beaming to a sniping sitting on the other side of the map though as I think that would be too easy for the sniper and would lead to a very lazy method of situational awareness on their part. BUT... if I am taking fire, and a red dot pings on my mini map. I can then visually scan the area, hopefully determine that the shooter is behind a crate, and describe the scenario to my snipe via comms, "Shooter at my SIX, behind cover!" Ideally, the sniper (and all squad members) will always have directional chevrons of each squad member on the mini map. Sniper hears the callout, is already aware of you and your squad's location AND facing direction, does a quick mental click on what MY "six" is and now he's in action. If that sniper is any good and has been tracking my squad, then he should be able to find the crate as I describe and fire. Assuming they have line of site. This should be exciting for the sniper to both follow squad locations and be aware of their own surroundings. But I guess it all depends on how squads and individuals wish to use sniper roles, if they exist as we assume.
Or her. I don't mean to be sexist.
So... you don't want to automatically share the location of an enemy you have in your sites... but you want to be able to be able to tell a Sniper the exact position of someone who is directly behind you and behind cover...
Also, have you ever played the Sniper role? In DUST the position of enemies was transmitted to Snipers on the other side of the map all the time, but when I played Sniper many of my kills were enemies that did not show on the Tac-Net. Snipers have a good field of view. While it would be helpful to highlight an enemy position for your Sniper, it will probably be a lot more helpful for your Sniper to highlight that shot gunner sneaking up behind you.
As far as describing enemy positions on Coms, DUST did not give us the tools to do that effectively. Hopefully we will get a better compass in Nova.
byte modal wrote:
Now if you're talking only for sniper roles, then that may change things. Still, I think the above is necessary to draw a distinction between role mechanics. I like the idea of a sniper and/or a scout having a unique ability that general suits might not have however that distinction is played out. A mod unique to that suit type? Iderno. But I would not like it if any joe running around randomly could just randomly ping a hidden red because of ...cross hairs.
Ok, that part where you say "if any joe running around randomly could just randomly ping a hidden red because of ...cross hairs." If the red is "hidden" then the mechanic would not tag them. It sounds like you think I am talking about some sort of scanner that looks through walls or something?
I am talking about being able to tag enemy that you can see, which by definition means Not Hidden.
To spot hidden enemy you would need an E-War scanner. Not talking about that here.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8178
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:They already left vehicles behind. Leaving snipers behind would end their miserable existance Scans are already there to do the job. Feel free to take one with you. Or use modules. That's the whole point of Ewar, isn't it? @Fox, If you can just tag someone who sacrifices most of his slots for dampening, isn't that broken? Abusable? Someone tries to flank, and you can light him up like a christmas tree for everyone to see (w/o using any mods/eq). Passing down the info via a mic takes a little bit of time so it's not an instant : there he is, kill him.
You equip dampening mods so you can sneak up behind people. Only a Cloak should protect you from line of sight. If you think you have been spotted, duck behind cover to break contact, then double back behind them.
Keep in mind I am talking about something a player actively does to target and tag an enemy player, not some passive ability.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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byte modal
1352
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Posted - 2017.06.09 16:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
Yikes! I lost my response when the site went down just now. Er... at least I couldn't reconnect to it =*(
I'll try to be brief.
Thanks for responding. I did not see your edits to the OP. I had checked at some point yesterday, just in case, but I must have just missed it. Fair enough!
Fox Gaden wrote:
So... you don't want to automatically share the location of an enemy you have in your sites... but you want to be able to be able to tell a Sniper the exact position of someone who is directly behind you and behind cover...
Also, have you ever played the Sniper role? In DUST the position of enemies was transmitted to Snipers on the other side of the map all the time, but when I played Sniper many of my kills were enemies that did not show on the Tac-Net. Snipers have a good field of view. While it would be helpful to highlight an enemy position for your Sniper, it will probably be a lot more helpful for your Sniper to highlight that shot gunner sneaking up behind you.
As far as describing enemy positions on Coms, DUST did not give us the tools to do that effectively. Hopefully we will get a better compass in Nova.
No. I just don't want to auto-share an icon with a sniper on the other side of the map. I can see where if a sniper is following me and sees a red sneaking up, or around the corner, then maybe THAT data can stream to the squad. But I think that would be more interesting as a one-way data stream from sniper to squad and not from squad to sniper.
As to the not playing sniper comment, yes. I have. I'm speaking to an idea of what may or may not be in NOVA though. Not necessarily how DUST exactly worked. I'm just generalizing on what I would find more interesting for so many reasons. I agree with how I got most of my sniper shots too. They do have a great vantage point and can see more of an environment than boots on the ground. That sort of reinforces why I think the sharing should be one-way. A sniper will have a visual advantage. Boots on the ground will not have the same perspective. However, if a sniper can spot a red (wherever), then I can find it useful if that target is then shared on squad TACNET. At least for as long as the sniper can maintain a visual.
Agreed about comms. Still though, just speaking hypothetically with a few assumptions about may work better in the future ;)
Fox Gaden wrote:
Ok, that part where you say "if any joe running around randomly could just randomly ping a hidden red because of ...cross hairs." If the red is "hidden" then the mechanic would not tag them. It sounds like you think I am talking about some sort of scanner that looks through walls or something?
I am talking about being able to tag enemy that you can see, which by definition means Not Hidden.
To spot hidden enemy you would need an E-War scanner. Not talking about that here.
No. I mean in a very specific situation where the enemy is hiding, stationary, behind a crate, but for whatever reason maybe his foot or elbow is hanging around the edge. If I'm walking into an ambush, I might not see that subtle piece of suit, especially if he's not moving and blends in with the environment. I have the potential of seeing him, but most likely I would never be aware of him. My cross hairs, though, would spot him regardless.
My point was that in this type of random encounter, I still might be able to scope him by waving my cross hairs around. Of course I wouldn't see him if he is completely out of view. I did not mean for that to be implied. I see profile damps/scanners as a completely separate thing, I agree and was not talking about that either. :)
Thanks for the detailed response. Much appreciated.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8180
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
byte modal wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:
Ok, that part where you say "if any joe running around randomly could just randomly ping a hidden red because of ...cross hairs." If the red is "hidden" then the mechanic would not tag them. It sounds like you think I am talking about some sort of scanner that looks through walls or something?
I am talking about being able to tag enemy that you can see, which by definition means Not Hidden.
To spot hidden enemy you would need an E-War scanner. Not talking about that here.
No. I mean in a very specific situation where the enemy is hiding, stationary, behind a crate, but for whatever reason maybe his foot or elbow is hanging around the edge. If I'm walking into an ambush, I might not see that subtle piece of suit, especially if he's not moving and blends in with the environment. I have the potential of seeing him, but most likely I would never be aware of him. My cross hairs, though, would spot him regardless. My point was that in this type of random encounter, I still might be able to scope him by waving my cross hairs around. Of course I wouldn't see him if he is completely out of view. I did not mean for that to be implied. I see profile damps/scanners as a completely separate thing, I agree and was not talking about that either. :) Thanks for the detailed response. Much appreciated.
Would you be more comfortable with the mechanic if you had to hold the cross hairs on him and press a button to tag them, rather than just having to hold your cross hairs on them for a prolonged period of time?
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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byte modal
1352
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:
Would you be more comfortable with the mechanic if you had to hold the cross hairs on him and press a button to tag them, rather than just having to hold your cross hairs on them for a prolonged period of time?
I think that would be fine. Somewhere in all of these two pages I made a comment about being required to do something/anything in addition to passing a cross hair randomly through the environment. Whether that's a key bind, macro, a few seconds for the scope to auto engage, whatever. As long as the player must do something deliberate to initiate a lock, that should cover any outside randomness that might screw with it all. That could even be as simple as targeting and firing upon the red. I mean, for the other side of it.
1) target and fire? lights him up.
2) makes some deliberate effort (delayed scoping, command-key type lock on, etc.), lights him up.
3) don't see the red catching his breath over in that dark corner? nothing. Unless he fires on you and actively engages himself. Then yeah.
generally speaking.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
2801
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:
You equip dampening mods so you can sneak up behind people. Only a Cloak should protect you from line of sight. If you think you have been spotted, duck behind cover to break contact, then double back behind them.
Keep in mind I am talking about something a player actively does to target and tag an enemy player, not some passive ability.
Yes, I get you. But I still believe that there are active and passive scans for this.
In my eyes, this can be compared to : pillaging destroyed dropsuits for ammo instead of using a nanohive.
I do agree on the dampener's part. I guess that's how it should work after all.
Vigilant Pilot
Happy Hunting
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