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byte modal
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Posted - 2017.06.08 15:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
*EDIT*
after rereading OP, I may have misread. i address that later on now, but still feel the first para or two are relevant for context to help clarify the roles and separation of those roles.
....
Idunno.
There's a weakness either way. I mean, I could just ballerina twirl in a zone hoping my crosshairs randomly pass over someone who's hiding behind something, sitting still, while only partially exposed. I might not have seen him, but my crosshairs sure will! Huh. Reminds me of old DUST scanner days :)
Just making a point here.
if I am fired upon though, I would be ok with a brief "ping" type locator pop up on my display. I can buy that my suit's tech could triangulate the source location of incoming fire. Just a 3-second dot illumination on the mini map. MAYBE if I maintain visual contact, then that dot stays illuminated, but that starts to slide into the issue above. Shared intel might be based on some skill level. Something like each skill level (or however it ends up working in NOVA) would increase the data share radius for your squad---just within squad. This could be a subtle encouragement to keep players in formation and close. Also, if other non-squad players are nearby, they will not get your shared data stream, but they should be able to use their senses of sight and sound to figure out that 5 people are shooting at some random crate stack, probably for good reason. Maybe they should then join in?
I would not want that intel automatically beaming to a sniping sitting on the other side of the map though as I think that would be too easy for the sniper and would lead to a very lazy method of situational awareness on their part. BUT... if I am taking fire, and a red dot pings on my mini map. I can then visually scan the area, hopefully determine that the shooter is behind a crate, and describe the scenario to my snipe via comms, "Shooter at my SIX, behind cover!" Ideally, the sniper (and all squad members) will always have directional chevrons of each squad member on the mini map. Sniper hears the callout, is already aware of you and your squad's location AND facing direction, does a quick mental click on what MY "six" is and now he's in action. If that sniper is any good and has been tracking my squad, then he should be able to find the crate as I describe and fire. Assuming they have line of site. This should be exciting for the sniper to both follow squad locations and be aware of their own surroundings. But I guess it all depends on how squads and individuals wish to use sniper roles, if they exist as we assume.
Or her. I don't mean to be sexist.
Now if you're talking only for sniper roles, then that may change things. Still, I think the above is necessary to draw a distinction between role mechanics. I like the idea of a sniper and/or a scout having a unique ability that general suits might not have however that distinction is played out. A mod unique to that suit type? Iderno. But I would not like it if any joe running around randomly could just randomly ping a hidden red because of ...cross hairs.
Maybe that could be a one-way data stream then? If a sniper (zoomed) spots a red, then the squad is alerted. A sniper would already be actively looking for reds, if in a zoomed scope, so I don't see any issue in that specific context for just a cross hair triggering an alert of some kind, and that info then being relayed to the squad. But not the other way around for reasons mentioned.
Not sure how a scout would play out. I guess it really depends on how CCP defines scout.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
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Posted - 2017.06.08 17:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
@Fox:
Are you speaking specifically to sniper roles? Or is this for general purpose, every-suit, tech?
I think we all may be talking from two different points of view here.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
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Posted - 2017.06.08 19:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:byte modal wrote:
Idunno.
There's a weakness either way. I mean, I could just ballerina twirl in a zone hoping my crosshairs randomly pass over someone who's hiding behind something, sitting still, while only partially exposed. I might not have seen him, but my crosshairs sure will! Huh. Reminds me of old DUST scanner days :)
I am not apposed to having to the hold the target in the cross hairs for half a second to get the lock. I actually think that is a good idea, to insure intent rather than than just randomly passing your cross hairs over someone in the distance you did not notice.
So are you speaking to general suit use, or sniper-specific? Or whatever role/class/suit/thingy that CCP ends up creating?
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
I would've preferred this to be sniper specific. snipers really had nothing useful to offer unless you were on comms with them and they were calling/tracking targets verbally. But then language barriers often caused issues.
This is a quality of life improvement for a class/role.
everyone else is most likely going to be close enough for dropsuit scans or active scanner to pick up everything else in bulk.
I am proposing it for every class/suit. But that does not change the fact that it makes snipers more useful to the team. Anyone who is in a position with a good field of vision will be able to spot enemy movements better than the guys down in the weeds and tight corridors.
Yeah. I wrote to this very thing in my longer first response on page one. I'm all for making snipers more useful than just hide and snipe. I go into more detail as to why it might be too much for general suit use though.
thanks for the reply earlier btw.
:)
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
That makes sense too.
hurum.... on the other hand, seeing someone who is dampened doesn't change the fact that I can see them with my eyes.
Assuming we are still using a TACNET system like how it worked in DUST, I would be ok lighting him on up on screen IF I SAW HIM first... and lighting him up required something more than just dumb luck on my part. Tagging him as a target, holding scope over him for a period of time to active some type of "lock" to THEN highlight his position (as long as he stays in visual), or some other method. I'm not detailing, just trying to throw broad thoughts out for ideas.
I'd argue that even though you may be dampened to hell and back screwing my TACNET awareness, if you're not making an effort to physically hide from being visually spotted, then all the dampening in the world shouldn't stop me from targeting you. At least for as long as I can see you. Once you are targeted, I have no issue with that being shared in squad (at least as I limit it in my first post going into all that). Jump behind a corner where no one in squad has eyes-on, then you drop from TACNET. As you should. Maybe with a slight delay being that you were just targeted. Perhaps the software can speculate your next few steps based on your most recent trajectory, so even though you're in the shadows I can still see a fading blip for a moment until my system can no longer estimate where you might be.
Your dampening mods are still keeping you off TACNET.
Get lazy and step into the light where someone might see you? They can then see you, so all bets are off.
...until you step back into the shadows where dampeners can do their job.
*Edit*
still leaning to just a sniper function though.
derno.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
1352
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Posted - 2017.06.09 16:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yikes! I lost my response when the site went down just now. Er... at least I couldn't reconnect to it =*(
I'll try to be brief.
Thanks for responding. I did not see your edits to the OP. I had checked at some point yesterday, just in case, but I must have just missed it. Fair enough!
Fox Gaden wrote:
So... you don't want to automatically share the location of an enemy you have in your sites... but you want to be able to be able to tell a Sniper the exact position of someone who is directly behind you and behind cover...
Also, have you ever played the Sniper role? In DUST the position of enemies was transmitted to Snipers on the other side of the map all the time, but when I played Sniper many of my kills were enemies that did not show on the Tac-Net. Snipers have a good field of view. While it would be helpful to highlight an enemy position for your Sniper, it will probably be a lot more helpful for your Sniper to highlight that shot gunner sneaking up behind you.
As far as describing enemy positions on Coms, DUST did not give us the tools to do that effectively. Hopefully we will get a better compass in Nova.
No. I just don't want to auto-share an icon with a sniper on the other side of the map. I can see where if a sniper is following me and sees a red sneaking up, or around the corner, then maybe THAT data can stream to the squad. But I think that would be more interesting as a one-way data stream from sniper to squad and not from squad to sniper.
As to the not playing sniper comment, yes. I have. I'm speaking to an idea of what may or may not be in NOVA though. Not necessarily how DUST exactly worked. I'm just generalizing on what I would find more interesting for so many reasons. I agree with how I got most of my sniper shots too. They do have a great vantage point and can see more of an environment than boots on the ground. That sort of reinforces why I think the sharing should be one-way. A sniper will have a visual advantage. Boots on the ground will not have the same perspective. However, if a sniper can spot a red (wherever), then I can find it useful if that target is then shared on squad TACNET. At least for as long as the sniper can maintain a visual.
Agreed about comms. Still though, just speaking hypothetically with a few assumptions about may work better in the future ;)
Fox Gaden wrote:
Ok, that part where you say "if any joe running around randomly could just randomly ping a hidden red because of ...cross hairs." If the red is "hidden" then the mechanic would not tag them. It sounds like you think I am talking about some sort of scanner that looks through walls or something?
I am talking about being able to tag enemy that you can see, which by definition means Not Hidden.
To spot hidden enemy you would need an E-War scanner. Not talking about that here.
No. I mean in a very specific situation where the enemy is hiding, stationary, behind a crate, but for whatever reason maybe his foot or elbow is hanging around the edge. If I'm walking into an ambush, I might not see that subtle piece of suit, especially if he's not moving and blends in with the environment. I have the potential of seeing him, but most likely I would never be aware of him. My cross hairs, though, would spot him regardless.
My point was that in this type of random encounter, I still might be able to scope him by waving my cross hairs around. Of course I wouldn't see him if he is completely out of view. I did not mean for that to be implied. I see profile damps/scanners as a completely separate thing, I agree and was not talking about that either. :)
Thanks for the detailed response. Much appreciated.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
1352
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:
Would you be more comfortable with the mechanic if you had to hold the cross hairs on him and press a button to tag them, rather than just having to hold your cross hairs on them for a prolonged period of time?
I think that would be fine. Somewhere in all of these two pages I made a comment about being required to do something/anything in addition to passing a cross hair randomly through the environment. Whether that's a key bind, macro, a few seconds for the scope to auto engage, whatever. As long as the player must do something deliberate to initiate a lock, that should cover any outside randomness that might screw with it all. That could even be as simple as targeting and firing upon the red. I mean, for the other side of it.
1) target and fire? lights him up.
2) makes some deliberate effort (delayed scoping, command-key type lock on, etc.), lights him up.
3) don't see the red catching his breath over in that dark corner? nothing. Unless he fires on you and actively engages himself. Then yeah.
generally speaking.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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