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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9296
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Posted - 2017.05.20 08:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
In this episode of Theory Workshop, we will be exploring an expansion of a concept present by the developers of CCPGÇÖs Project Nova. Specifically we will be discussing the potential use of dropsuit capacitor as a balancing mechanic for dropsuit modules.
Please bear in mind that this is simply an expansion of an idea that was presented by the developer and should be considered a starting point for a discussion and not a finalized concept.
Please give feedback but try not to flame too hard
http://biomassed.net/2017/05/20/theory-workshop-project-nova-capacitor-and-module-interaction/
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1884
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Posted - 2017.05.20 09:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pretty much exactly what I was imagining...
Would totally solve the equipment spam (if that's gonna be a thing in Nova.) plop down 10 uplinks if you want, but you'll need to have no hp fitted and you'll have no spare capacity to regen or boost your move speed... Or use any other equipment.
Just to add, I think each equipment should use capacity differently.
They should only use cap when in use, not take up any passively.
- Rep tools would make sense to slowly drain capacity while in use.
- Uplinks, nanohives and explosives would passively take up cap when dropped and possibly drain some each time they're used.
- Dirty needles would make sense to drain a load in one hit.
I don't think equipment would even need cooldowns to be honest.
Managing all the would be quite interesting, while allowing a wide variety of fits/strategies... Basically what we wanted from vehicles in Dust, lol. |
LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
1453
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Posted - 2017.05.20 19:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
If this is the way they are going to achieve balance then I really don't see the need for pg/CPU anymore,with the exception being logis. They would HAVE to be given a huge capacitor pool to fit equipment but then we would definitely see slayer logis all over again.
It is interesting and I am becoming a little more intrigued by the idea. Even , dare I say, a little excited =ƒÿè
Your friendly Pub match logi
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
17167
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Posted - 2017.05.20 19:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:If this is the way they are going to achieve balance then I really don't see the need for pg/CPU anymore,with the exception being logis. They would HAVE to be given a huge capacitor pool to fit equipment but then we would definitely see slayer logis all over again.
It is interesting and I am becoming a little more intrigued by the idea. Even , dare I say, a little excited =ƒÿè I think there are probably ways of giving logis more capacity and not having slayer logis. I means slayer logis were a problem well before bandwidth in Dust, and did not make a comeback after BW was installed. With a blank slate in Nova, they have the ability to make the tools necessary for balance that weren't readily available in Dust.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
13764
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Posted - 2017.05.20 20:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks for making it more clear. I was still relatively confused even when watching Rattati explain it, but your summary puts it into a good perspective.
It's basically trading the pair of primary resources we know and love (PG/CPU) for another pair of primary resources (Cap Capacity/Cap Recharge Rate). The main difference here being that Cap Recharge Rate is very dynamic when you try to use active equipment.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9298
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Posted - 2017.05.20 21:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Keep in mind this is my own idea for expanding the idea of capacitor in general. However Rattati did confirm that what I described is more or less what they're planning on. The only major deviation is the whole "fits must be cap stable."
That goes back to their main question of "What criteria would make a fit invalid?"
In my example it would be exceedingly the limitations of the capacity and recharge of the capacitor, but that's not necessarily what they'll decide on. You are correct however that PG/CPU wouldn't be required if they used the metric I outlined.
As for Logistics. They don't need a huge pool, just give them a bonus to reduce the capacitor cost of equipment. Really not that different from the PG/CPU cost bonus they had in Dust.
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Nomex Gallatin
Direct Action Resources Rise Of Legion.
187
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Posted - 2017.05.20 22:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:- Rep tools would make sense to slowly drain capacity while in use.
Okay, I can go with this, as long as chaining another logi will help boost CPU (just like in Eve Online).
The trade-off is fair, if you want to logi, you will be down a gun in a gunfight while repairing armor/shields, and if you want to sustain the cap, you will be down two gunners.
And let me be very clear: The logistics should no be nerfed too much because they have a thankless job and are a vital role in keeping the team up and running all the while losing KDR.
GǣGǪ shatter the enemy and then the terrain will fall into your hands by itself.Gǥ - General Heinz Gaedke
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Nomex Gallatin
Direct Action Resources Rise Of Legion.
187
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Posted - 2017.05.20 22:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:If this is the way they are going to achieve balance then I really don't see the need for pg/CPU anymore,with the exception being logis. They would HAVE to be given a huge capacitor pool to fit equipment but then we would definitely see slayer logis all over again.
It is interesting and I am becoming a little more intrigued by the idea. Even , dare I say, a little excited =ƒÿè
No slayer logies, agreed, but that should be easy enough to limit. I.e., logi suites come with a cap boost only available when the repair tool is fitted and trained for?
GǣGǪ shatter the enemy and then the terrain will fall into your hands by itself.Gǥ - General Heinz Gaedke
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9299
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Posted - 2017.05.21 03:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
The whole slayer logi thing is so completely blown out of proportion anyways. Yeah it was bad for a bit but that's because their bonuses were stupid. Even after they were fixed, people had this absurd aversion to Logis being even remotely capable of holding their own and they were subjected to so many uneeded nerfs.
Logistics fall under the support category along with sentinels and marksman in Nova. If you want to properly make the Assault classes be top killers, (Assaults, Vanguard, Infiltrator) then give those classes appropriate "slaying" bonuses and abilities. Don't do it by taking a **** on support classes.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1480
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Posted - 2017.05.21 04:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
I imagine capacitor working exactly like stamina. Activating certain equipment or modules drains capacitor. Activating multiple modules or equipment drains capacitor faster. When capacitor runs out, modules and equipment shut off and can not be used until enough capacitor has regenerated to use them.
No need for cool downs.
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Clone D
Solo Zen
2245
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Posted - 2017.05.21 04:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
The capacitor system seems well thought out with the caveat that type C modules need to be powerful enough to justify their use when considering the trade off of mounting a different module.
In Dust, I never felt like there was a good balance between the biotics modules and the armor/shield modules. The relationship between these is mechanically very complex, scenario dependent, damage type dependent and I got the feeling that the entire module system was rather arbitrary in terms of the benefit that each module provided.
Have appropriate vectors been defined in order to form a relationship between the sundry module types? For instance, avg DPS.
When relating the effect of a kincat to a armor/shield module, I need a series of metrics that allow for a conversion.
Generally speaking, the shield extender allowed a merc to take more damage and live through it, than the damage that could be avoided by using a kincat to run tangent to the line of fire in order to escape the shooter's aiming rotation rate.
In Dust, the trade off between biotics and armor/shield was obvious, which is why most people ended up shield/armor tanking. The advantage of biotics were not as significant as the advantage of shield/armor ... UNTIL jumping became a thing.
When jumping happened, the close range jumper was immediately able to move beyond the shooters tracking speed, thereby reducing DPS to zero instantly, so jumping modules provided more of an advantage in terms of DPS than a shield/armor module.
TLDR; Like the difference between biotics modules and shield/armor modules, as long as type C modules have a strong enough benefit to justify using a type C module over a different module, then I don't see any reason why the capacitor system wouldn't work. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
2404
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 10:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
I love the idea, and I think there would be no need for a PG or CPU stat in this case (though obviously it also works with them included).
There is just one change I would strongly suggest. There is no need for type A equipment. When you think about it, anything that passively draws power will only effect the cap regen, not the total capacity. So shield extenders and armour plates would be type B.
I suggest that all passive bonus modules should reduce your cap regen. As you originally suggested, the total capacity can be adjusted with the type C modules (as well as cap regen).
This would not only streamline things but also make it more intuitive without really losing depth. |
Mejt0
Made in Poland...
2766
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Posted - 2017.05.21 11:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sounds cool. I guess it eliminates the jack of all trades fittings
Vigilant Pilot
Happy Hunting
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Nomex Gallatin
Direct Action Resources Rise Of Legion.
187
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Posted - 2017.05.21 13:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:... If you want to properly make the Assault classes be top killers, (Assaults, Vanguard, Infiltrator) then give those classes appropriate "slaying" bonuses and abilities. Don't do it by taking a **** on support classes.
This.
GǣGǪ shatter the enemy and then the terrain will fall into your hands by itself.Gǥ - General Heinz Gaedke
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
17174
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Posted - 2017.05.21 16:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nomex Gallatin wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:... If you want to properly make the Assault classes be top killers, (Assaults, Vanguard, Infiltrator) then give those classes appropriate "slaying" bonuses and abilities. Don't do it by taking a **** on support classes. This. I don't even buy this. Assaults should have a role, but in any class based FPS you should never just decide out of the gate that one role should be the "top killers." Talk about reducing the depth and strategy. If one class is the "top killer" why bother using anything else?
Each class should have it's own circumstance where they are "top killers" that do not significantly overlap, or else you not only minimize Logi's, but every other non Assault class.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
2404
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 17:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Nomex Gallatin wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:... If you want to properly make the Assault classes be top killers, (Assaults, Vanguard, Infiltrator) then give those classes appropriate "slaying" bonuses and abilities. Don't do it by taking a **** on support classes. This. I don't even buy this. Assaults should have a role, but in any class based FPS you should never just decide out of the gate that one role should be the "top killers." Talk about reducing the depth and strategy. If one class is the "top killer" why bother using anything else? Each class should have it's own circumstance where they are "top killers" that do not significantly overlap, or else you not only minimize Logi's, but every other non Assault class. I agree, though Pokey mentions multiple killing roles, Assaults, Vanguard annd Infiltrator.
I think the key thing is that in Dust there were multiple ways to build and play the various classes, which was one of the best things about the game. A number of those builds focussed on killing, unsurprisingly since the game was an fps. If a build's purpose is killing, there's no reason it should be better or worse at it than another build/class, so long as it accomplishes it in a different way, so as not to invalidate another class. The issuse with slayer-logis and slayer-scouts, was that they did the same as an assault, and so invalidated that archetype by being a better assault than an assault.
For example, a scout performed a number of roles such as: Uplink runner Speed hacker Assassin Light assault
Neither an uplink runner or speed hacker were very good at killing. They could transition into the other roles, since you need something to do after dropping a link or hacking a point, but they weren't terribly effective at it. An assassin is a role that existed in Dust since open beta and was one of the most fun and interesting playstyles, despite being underpowered for the majority of the duration of Dust. This was a role that focussed on killing and so there was no reason for it to be significantly less effective than any other class at killing since it accomplishes it's task in a different way and so doesn't invalidate any other class. The light assault was a role similar to the assault. Again, there's no reason this would have to be bad, but there was a time when assaults were underpowered and scout suits made better assaults than assault suits. This is an example of a role that CCP has be careful with as it overlaps with the assault role and so runs the risk of invalidating it.
Consider the sentinel. This had two main roles, AV and point control (i.e. taking and holding a specific objctive). The point control role was one that focussed on killing. However, since this was accomplished in a significantly different way to the assault role, there was no reason they should be less effective at killing than assaults.
Logis. Logis only really had a support role in Dust. A very varied and extremely important, game-winning support role. However I would argue there wasn't really a common killing role for the logi. The only common way a logi was used for killing was as a type of assault. Similarly to the light-assault-scout, it was a little risky to make this too powerful as it's combat method was very similar to the assault, and so there was a risk of the "slayer-logi" invalidating the assault role. As was the case post release of Uprising. Not that support roles shoudl be defensless, they just need to not invalidate any other role. If logis could play a role focussed on killing that differered from the assault methods, for example a build focussing mainly on offensive equipment such as mines, there's no reason such a role shouldn't be highly effective at it's goal, killing.
Basically what i'm saying is, there doesn't need to be one role that's good at killing, but multiple roles over multiple classes that do the killing in different ways. There can also be support roles which don't focus on killing, which shouldn't be as good at killing as the combat roles. Some classes should be able to be built for various roles. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1483
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 19:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Would "active" variant of passive modules be a thing?
Like Adrenaline that would cost a bit of capacitor but would give unlimited stamina during its duration? or maybe boost the effects of biotic modules?
or shield hardeners that provide a damage reduction while active?
these would provide strong benefits while active but rely cap to run and function. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9302
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 21:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Nomex Gallatin wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:... If you want to properly make the Assault classes be top killers, (Assaults, Vanguard, Infiltrator) then give those classes appropriate "slaying" bonuses and abilities. Don't do it by taking a **** on support classes. This. I don't even buy this. Assaults should have a role, but in any class based FPS you should never just decide out of the gate that one role should be the "top killers." Talk about reducing the depth and strategy. If one class is the "top killer" why bother using anything else? Each class should have it's own circumstance where they are "top killers" that do not significantly overlap, or else you not only minimize Logi's, but every other non Assault class.
Well....it is an class based shooter so everyone is lethal. Especially since there will be little to no restrictions on what weapons you can and cannot fit. That being said, "Support" style classes should absolutely be lethal, but "Assault" style classes should have bonuses which exemplify their ability to kill, just as the "Support" style should have bonus that exemplify their ability to provide support to the team. Having such specializations and "themes" of combat are absolutely an example of both width and depth of gameplay, not a reduction of it.
So to answer your question, if one class is "top killer" or whatever, why would you want to use something else? Well maybe you're not trying to be a top killer, maybe you're trying to be a great healer or a great tank. Applying damage to the opponent is not the only element of the game.
DeathwindRising wrote:Would "active" variant of passive modules be a thing?
Like Adrenaline that would cost a bit of capacitor but would give unlimited stamina during its duration? or maybe boost the effects of biotic modules?
or shield hardeners that provide a damage reduction while active?
these would provide strong benefits while active but rely cap to run and function.
I think absolutely that most passive module should have an equivalent or near equivalent active version. Obviously active is dictated by capacitor usage and is only temporary, but significantly more potent during its active cycle.
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DUST Fiend
19212
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Posted - 2017.05.21 22:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Reserved for chaos and cookies
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Russel Moralles
Klandatu
234
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Posted - 2017.05.21 23:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
My class idea, my .2 aurum idea.
Light dropsuit class. Scout. Medic.
Medium dropsuit class. Assault. Logi.
Heavy dropsuit class. Sentinel. Vanguard.
The problem with dust514 was the logi is also a medic. They get bonus point on healing and equipment. They can carry lots of repair nanohives and repair a lot on themselves thats why they great at slaying. They stand to shoot it out even against assault class. |
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9304
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Posted - 2017.05.21 23:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Russel Moralles wrote:My class idea, my .2 aurum idea.
Light dropsuit class. Scout. Medic.
Medium dropsuit class. Assault. Logi.
Heavy dropsuit class. Sentinel. Vanguard.
The problem with dust514 was the logi is also a medic. They get bonus point on healing and equipment. They can carry lots of repair nanohives and repair a lot on themselves thats why they great at slaying. They stand to shoot it out even against assault class.
You're pretty close. your medium and heavy ones are correct. The two lights are Infiltrator (which I imagine is your cloaky CQC scout) and Marksman which is your longer range fighter.
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Russel Moralles
Klandatu
234
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Posted - 2017.05.22 03:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Russel Moralles wrote:My class idea, my .2 aurum idea.
Light dropsuit class. Scout. Medic.
Medium dropsuit class. Assault. Logi.
Heavy dropsuit class. Sentinel. Vanguard.
The problem with dust514 was the logi is also a medic. They get bonus point on healing and equipment. They can carry lots of repair nanohives and repair a lot on themselves thats why they great at slaying. They stand to shoot it out even against assault class. You're pretty close. your medium and heavy ones are correct. The two lights are Infiltrator (which I imagine is your cloaky CQC scout) and Marksman which is your longer range fighter.
Ilfiltrator and marksman.
Im guessing the maps are gonna be huge because they need an infiltrator and a marksman. Damn just got excited on that one.
Now what bonuses are the said infiltrator and marksman gonna get on their skill tree. Also interested on the vanguard skilltree bonuses.
Things are getting good.
Keeping my fingers crossed.
And trying to ignore pass letdowns. |
DUST Fiend
19213
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Posted - 2017.05.22 06:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Please bear in mind that this is simply an expansion of an idea that was presented by the developer and should be considered a starting point for a discussion and not a finalized concept. #TriggerWarning
First off I just want to ask, how will this all actually work in game? Will it actually be intuitive to be going into a menu to use your active modules whenever you need them? I feel like that would make things a bit cluttered and cause for easy frustrating mistakes. Perhaps hotkeys? Also what visual indicators will be present as tracking this stuff is harder in first person. Having multiple active modules with different cap drains could be especially overwhelming to newer players who frequently find themselves struggling simply to aim at and track a hostile, let alone tracking the duration of all active modules, that is assuming they remember to activate them as they're being shot at.
I'm 100% on board integrating cap into the game simply because it's a better foundation for vehicles whether or not they ever return. If they come back without cap. ... .. . .............. . Just saying that using cap as a way to ease new players in....yea...not really buyin that particular bit. It's definitely gonna take getting used to as most FPS games have abilities that generally do something right away and go onto a cooldown. Which I 100% do not want.
This brings to mind another type of module which should exist amongst your ABC of Capacity. The D, if you will; Burst Modules. These are basically Heal X instantly, lose Y Cap instantly. Provide X% shield resistance (vs type if that comes into the game..but...simplification because thinking is hard #cry ) for 5 seconds, drain Y capacity etc etc.
- Emp grenades that deal Cap damage / reduce cap recharge / increase cap drain for set time?
What actual limit will there be for fitting suits if not PG / CPU? (if there are modules to up cap capacity what keeps you from continuously adding these then something that drains less or the same cap? Will all classes share the same module layout for their respective suits. If we do away with tiers too, what sense of progression is there past unlocks? How fast can we unlock things? How many things can we unlock at once? How long will it take to unlock everything, and what's left when you unlock everything? What does it actually take to unlock something? How does this make sense within the lore of the universe? (genuine question, I love lore just a lore noob) Once you unlock a module, do you access all versions of that module? If everything is balanced against the same cap scale (more benefit, more cap cost basically) how would one determine which is "better" for ISK balancing, or would all modules share the same cost? Will we even still have ISK if everything is unlocked and sidegrades?
I know I'm fairly stupid among the thinking folk, but honestly this is all fairly confusing lol. I feel like it was just me who enjoyed storing up big piles of SP so I could come back and try something new. If things are on an unlock basis, what protects the casual player who has little time to actively unlock the whole skill tree vs try hards who have it all unlocked in a week? How does this gap differ from the original proto / SP gap? In reverse I suppose, if the idea is to put MLT modules on your suit till you unlock that modules skill then you have access to all variants of that module, how long really would it take to unlock everything? Also if unlocks require anything more than passive participation, how does this not directly target and harm the scrub who can barely get his **** together to hack Delta? At least before, there was a passive SP gain as well as the bonus pool, these both helped the new and casual bro.
I guess I need more details. If it's not broke don't fix it, SP system seemed fine to me. I'm just an obnoxious scrub though so *shrugs*
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9304
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Posted - 2017.05.22 08:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote: First off I just want to ask, how will this all actually work in game? Will it actually be intuitive to be going into a menu to use your active modules whenever you need them? I feel like that would make things a bit cluttered and cause for easy frustrating mistakes. Perhaps hotkeys? Also what visual indicators will be present as tracking this stuff is harder in first person. Having multiple active modules with different cap drains could be especially overwhelming to newer players who frequently find themselves struggling simply to aim at and track a hostile, let alone tracking the duration of all active modules, that is assuming they remember to activate them as they're being shot at.
Hotkeys make the most sense. Additionally I suspect Active Tanking to be a more advanced player option, with multiple active modules to manage. We both did it with HAVs, it's possible, just takes some time to get used to. New player fits would be mostly passive with maybe one active module. Pretty easy to handle so I don't think it would be overwhelming.
As for visuals, there are plenty of examples of HUDs that handle multiple skills with hotkeys on the screen.
DUST Fiend wrote: Just saying that using cap as a way to ease new players in....yea...not really buyin that particular bit. It's definitely gonna take getting used to as most FPS games have abilities that generally do something right away and go onto a cooldown. Which I 100% do not want.
This brings to mind another type of module which should exist amongst your ABC of Capacity. The D, if you will; Burst Modules. These are basically Heal X instantly, lose Y Cap instantly. Provide X% shield resistance (vs type if that comes into the game..but...simplification because thinking is hard #cry ) for 5 seconds, drain Y capacity etc etc.
- Emp grenades that deal Cap damage / reduce cap recharge / increase cap drain for set time?
I was mostly just listing passive modules in the whole ABC naming convention, but yes, there are various options available for active modules. There are also various ways to handle EWAR if they go that direction.
DUST Fiend wrote: What actual limit will there be for fitting suits if not PG / CPU? (if there are modules to up cap capacity what keeps you from continuously adding these then something that drains less or the same cap? Will all classes share the same module layout for their respective suits. If we do away with tiers too, what sense of progression is there past unlocks? How fast can we unlock things? How many things can we unlock at once? How long will it take to unlock everything, and what's left when you unlock everything? What does it actually take to unlock something? How does this make sense within the lore of the universe? (genuine question, I love lore just a lore noob) Once you unlock a module, do you access all versions of that module? If everything is balanced against the same cap scale (more benefit, more cap cost basically) how would one determine which is "better" for ISK balancing, or would all modules share the same cost? Will we even still have ISK if everything is unlocked and sidegrades?
Lot of things going on here. So as I specified, the suit must be cap stable (passive cap recharge cannot be negative) and max capacitor capacity cannot be negative. In that sense, you could almost think of Cap Recharge and Cap Capacity as PG/CPU. However, unlike PG/CPU which are just values players are told "You cannot exceed this" and that's about all those values mean, telling players "you cannot exceed the limits of your capacitor" is a more meaningful metric because players will see the effect of using more or less of it.
With that in mind, modules which increase capacitor are really not different from the PG and CPU extenders we had in DUST. They consume a slot so there is a limit to how many you could use, similarly they consume slots that could be used for passive/active modules. So there is opportunity cost there.
Active modules are balanced against one another. You may be able to stack many of them together, but your capacitor is still your limiting factor. Multiple active modules are useless if you do not have enough capacitor to run all of them.
In actuality, I think most fits will end up being a mix of passive modules, active modules, and possibly some capacitor units.
As for your questions regarding fitting, I invite you to look at the newest compilation where I break down the progression system. If you have further questions feel free to reach out, I don't have all the answers but I did speak with Rattati to nail down some specifics. http://biomassed.net/2017/05/22/project-nova-ongoing-updates-may-18th-20th/
As for SP, this isn't what this thread or article is about, so I'll decline to comment on it.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
2405
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Posted - 2017.05.22 08:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'd love to see active hardeners, since this naturally synigises with reps. You could make interesting builds designed to be supported with a logi for maximum tanking. I think this is how EVE works (maybe). |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1486
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Posted - 2017.05.22 22:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
the biggest question I have is why there are cool downs on Active modules while also restricting Active modules usage to Capacitor?
Shouldn't we be able to run to simply run Active modules until cap runs out?
If my Active module cost 25 cap to activate and I have 100 cap, why can't I activate my module again after it duration? Why would I need to wait an additional amount of time after completion of the modules duration before I can use it again?
a cooldown for the modules after you MANUALLY turn off the module or the cap runs out would be acceptable, but not for simply running a module.
What if i only have one Active module and cap regen is greater than cap cost? Shouldn't that mean I get to perma run my module?
A greater explanation of how cool downs work in relation with cap is desired.
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Moorian Flav
660
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Posted - 2017.05.23 15:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:the biggest question I have is why there are cool downs on Active modules while also restricting Active modules usage to Capacitor? In EVE, there are cooldown timers so you cannot just flip off an active module and immediately restart it. A good example is cloaking in EVE there is a 30 second cool down. As far as I know though (as I do not know everything EVE side), most active modules do allow you to run them continuously after activation until you run out of cap (even when not actually using them such as having afterburner on while not moving). I would think it would be mostly similar with Nova (such as having Shield Booster still running with full shields where cap can be wasted by players not paying attention). I highly suggest those that have never tried EVE to give it a shot as it would simplify a lot of these conversations going forward.
DeathwindRising wrote:A greater explanation of how cool downs work in relation with cap is desired. I myself wonder about active module activation. I wonder how you are going to be able to activate active modules easily within a firefight especially if you are allowed to have multiple active modules at one time such as an Adaptive Invulnerability Field (damage reduction) plus Shield Booster (boosts shield regain). I am really interested to see this all work.
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9318
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Posted - 2017.05.23 16:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
You could just as easily map active modules to the number keys. I don't suspect people will go 100% active tank and I'd we assume you have similar slot counts to dust (5-8) I suspect at most people will have 2-5 active modules which is easy reach 1-5 on a keyboard with typing hand.
As for cooldowns, I think the ability to run a module for a long period of time really needs to be carefully considered against total cap capacity and recharge rate. For example if cap capacity let's you run a shield boosters non stop for 30 seconds ...that could be a problem. It kinda depends on if the developers decide if capacitor should be relatively small and recharge quickly? Or large pool with a slow recharge? These are all important factor to decide if a forced cooldown is necessary. However at the very least, having the ability to add a cooldown if necessary is important.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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Moorian Flav
660
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Posted - 2017.05.23 18:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I think the ability to run a module for a long period of time really needs to be carefully considered against total cap capacity and recharge rate. Yeah. CCP really has the tough job of distinguishing how long is too long for an active module(s) to run in a FPS. Initially, I thought around 10 seconds before cap drain would be good so you activate an active for a quick firefight with a time to regain cap before the next. There is such a diverse set of active modules from EVE though that can be transferred over to Nova that there are modules that take less cap so they can run longer such as running an active that slightly reduces damage rather than a shield booster. Still, actives have to have enough of an advantage to warrant using them over passives. On top of that, there likely will be modules to boost fitting units along with others to boost cap amount or regain. It will be quite the feat for CCP to pull off all that while maintaining in game balance.
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1900
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Posted - 2017.05.23 18:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:You could just as easily map active modules to the number keys. I don't suspect people will go 100% active tank and I'd we assume you have similar slot counts to dust (5-8) I suspect at most people will have 2-5 active modules which is easy reach 1-5 on a keyboard with typing hand.
As for cooldowns, I think the ability to run a module for a long period of time really needs to be carefully considered against total cap capacity and recharge rate. For example if cap capacity let's you run a shield boosters non stop for 30 seconds ...that could be a problem. It kinda depends on if the developers decide if capacitor should be relatively small and recharge quickly? Or large pool with a slow recharge? These are all important factor to decide if a forced cooldown is necessary. However at the very least, having the ability to add a cooldown if necessary is important. If you go full actives, there's always the option to build in some simple macro system, so you can set the ones you will always want at the same time to a single key/button... Would also be useful with gamepads if they include them. |
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