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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9296
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Posted - 2017.05.20 08:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
In this episode of Theory Workshop, we will be exploring an expansion of a concept present by the developers of CCPGÇÖs Project Nova. Specifically we will be discussing the potential use of dropsuit capacitor as a balancing mechanic for dropsuit modules.
Please bear in mind that this is simply an expansion of an idea that was presented by the developer and should be considered a starting point for a discussion and not a finalized concept.
Please give feedback but try not to flame too hard
http://biomassed.net/2017/05/20/theory-workshop-project-nova-capacitor-and-module-interaction/
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9298
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Posted - 2017.05.20 21:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Keep in mind this is my own idea for expanding the idea of capacitor in general. However Rattati did confirm that what I described is more or less what they're planning on. The only major deviation is the whole "fits must be cap stable."
That goes back to their main question of "What criteria would make a fit invalid?"
In my example it would be exceedingly the limitations of the capacity and recharge of the capacitor, but that's not necessarily what they'll decide on. You are correct however that PG/CPU wouldn't be required if they used the metric I outlined.
As for Logistics. They don't need a huge pool, just give them a bonus to reduce the capacitor cost of equipment. Really not that different from the PG/CPU cost bonus they had in Dust.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9299
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Posted - 2017.05.21 03:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
The whole slayer logi thing is so completely blown out of proportion anyways. Yeah it was bad for a bit but that's because their bonuses were stupid. Even after they were fixed, people had this absurd aversion to Logis being even remotely capable of holding their own and they were subjected to so many uneeded nerfs.
Logistics fall under the support category along with sentinels and marksman in Nova. If you want to properly make the Assault classes be top killers, (Assaults, Vanguard, Infiltrator) then give those classes appropriate "slaying" bonuses and abilities. Don't do it by taking a **** on support classes.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9302
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Posted - 2017.05.21 21:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Nomex Gallatin wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:... If you want to properly make the Assault classes be top killers, (Assaults, Vanguard, Infiltrator) then give those classes appropriate "slaying" bonuses and abilities. Don't do it by taking a **** on support classes. This. I don't even buy this. Assaults should have a role, but in any class based FPS you should never just decide out of the gate that one role should be the "top killers." Talk about reducing the depth and strategy. If one class is the "top killer" why bother using anything else? Each class should have it's own circumstance where they are "top killers" that do not significantly overlap, or else you not only minimize Logi's, but every other non Assault class.
Well....it is an class based shooter so everyone is lethal. Especially since there will be little to no restrictions on what weapons you can and cannot fit. That being said, "Support" style classes should absolutely be lethal, but "Assault" style classes should have bonuses which exemplify their ability to kill, just as the "Support" style should have bonus that exemplify their ability to provide support to the team. Having such specializations and "themes" of combat are absolutely an example of both width and depth of gameplay, not a reduction of it.
So to answer your question, if one class is "top killer" or whatever, why would you want to use something else? Well maybe you're not trying to be a top killer, maybe you're trying to be a great healer or a great tank. Applying damage to the opponent is not the only element of the game.
DeathwindRising wrote:Would "active" variant of passive modules be a thing?
Like Adrenaline that would cost a bit of capacitor but would give unlimited stamina during its duration? or maybe boost the effects of biotic modules?
or shield hardeners that provide a damage reduction while active?
these would provide strong benefits while active but rely cap to run and function.
I think absolutely that most passive module should have an equivalent or near equivalent active version. Obviously active is dictated by capacitor usage and is only temporary, but significantly more potent during its active cycle.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9304
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Posted - 2017.05.21 23:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Russel Moralles wrote:My class idea, my .2 aurum idea.
Light dropsuit class. Scout. Medic.
Medium dropsuit class. Assault. Logi.
Heavy dropsuit class. Sentinel. Vanguard.
The problem with dust514 was the logi is also a medic. They get bonus point on healing and equipment. They can carry lots of repair nanohives and repair a lot on themselves thats why they great at slaying. They stand to shoot it out even against assault class.
You're pretty close. your medium and heavy ones are correct. The two lights are Infiltrator (which I imagine is your cloaky CQC scout) and Marksman which is your longer range fighter.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9304
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Posted - 2017.05.22 08:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote: First off I just want to ask, how will this all actually work in game? Will it actually be intuitive to be going into a menu to use your active modules whenever you need them? I feel like that would make things a bit cluttered and cause for easy frustrating mistakes. Perhaps hotkeys? Also what visual indicators will be present as tracking this stuff is harder in first person. Having multiple active modules with different cap drains could be especially overwhelming to newer players who frequently find themselves struggling simply to aim at and track a hostile, let alone tracking the duration of all active modules, that is assuming they remember to activate them as they're being shot at.
Hotkeys make the most sense. Additionally I suspect Active Tanking to be a more advanced player option, with multiple active modules to manage. We both did it with HAVs, it's possible, just takes some time to get used to. New player fits would be mostly passive with maybe one active module. Pretty easy to handle so I don't think it would be overwhelming.
As for visuals, there are plenty of examples of HUDs that handle multiple skills with hotkeys on the screen.
DUST Fiend wrote: Just saying that using cap as a way to ease new players in....yea...not really buyin that particular bit. It's definitely gonna take getting used to as most FPS games have abilities that generally do something right away and go onto a cooldown. Which I 100% do not want.
This brings to mind another type of module which should exist amongst your ABC of Capacity. The D, if you will; Burst Modules. These are basically Heal X instantly, lose Y Cap instantly. Provide X% shield resistance (vs type if that comes into the game..but...simplification because thinking is hard #cry ) for 5 seconds, drain Y capacity etc etc.
- Emp grenades that deal Cap damage / reduce cap recharge / increase cap drain for set time?
I was mostly just listing passive modules in the whole ABC naming convention, but yes, there are various options available for active modules. There are also various ways to handle EWAR if they go that direction.
DUST Fiend wrote: What actual limit will there be for fitting suits if not PG / CPU? (if there are modules to up cap capacity what keeps you from continuously adding these then something that drains less or the same cap? Will all classes share the same module layout for their respective suits. If we do away with tiers too, what sense of progression is there past unlocks? How fast can we unlock things? How many things can we unlock at once? How long will it take to unlock everything, and what's left when you unlock everything? What does it actually take to unlock something? How does this make sense within the lore of the universe? (genuine question, I love lore just a lore noob) Once you unlock a module, do you access all versions of that module? If everything is balanced against the same cap scale (more benefit, more cap cost basically) how would one determine which is "better" for ISK balancing, or would all modules share the same cost? Will we even still have ISK if everything is unlocked and sidegrades?
Lot of things going on here. So as I specified, the suit must be cap stable (passive cap recharge cannot be negative) and max capacitor capacity cannot be negative. In that sense, you could almost think of Cap Recharge and Cap Capacity as PG/CPU. However, unlike PG/CPU which are just values players are told "You cannot exceed this" and that's about all those values mean, telling players "you cannot exceed the limits of your capacitor" is a more meaningful metric because players will see the effect of using more or less of it.
With that in mind, modules which increase capacitor are really not different from the PG and CPU extenders we had in DUST. They consume a slot so there is a limit to how many you could use, similarly they consume slots that could be used for passive/active modules. So there is opportunity cost there.
Active modules are balanced against one another. You may be able to stack many of them together, but your capacitor is still your limiting factor. Multiple active modules are useless if you do not have enough capacitor to run all of them.
In actuality, I think most fits will end up being a mix of passive modules, active modules, and possibly some capacitor units.
As for your questions regarding fitting, I invite you to look at the newest compilation where I break down the progression system. If you have further questions feel free to reach out, I don't have all the answers but I did speak with Rattati to nail down some specifics. http://biomassed.net/2017/05/22/project-nova-ongoing-updates-may-18th-20th/
As for SP, this isn't what this thread or article is about, so I'll decline to comment on it.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9318
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Posted - 2017.05.23 16:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
You could just as easily map active modules to the number keys. I don't suspect people will go 100% active tank and I'd we assume you have similar slot counts to dust (5-8) I suspect at most people will have 2-5 active modules which is easy reach 1-5 on a keyboard with typing hand.
As for cooldowns, I think the ability to run a module for a long period of time really needs to be carefully considered against total cap capacity and recharge rate. For example if cap capacity let's you run a shield boosters non stop for 30 seconds ...that could be a problem. It kinda depends on if the developers decide if capacitor should be relatively small and recharge quickly? Or large pool with a slow recharge? These are all important factor to decide if a forced cooldown is necessary. However at the very least, having the ability to add a cooldown if necessary is important.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9318
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Posted - 2017.05.23 23:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Moorian Flav wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I think the ability to run a module for a long period of time really needs to be carefully considered against total cap capacity and recharge rate. Yeah. CCP really has the tough job of distinguishing how long is too long for an active module(s) to run in a FPS. Initially, I thought around 10 seconds before cap drain would be good so you activate an active for a quick firefight with a time to regain cap before the next. There is such a diverse set of active modules from EVE though that can be transferred over to Nova that there are modules that take less cap so they can run longer such as running an active that slightly reduces damage rather than a shield booster. Still, actives have to have enough of an advantage to warrant using them over passives. On top of that, there likely will be modules to boost fitting units along with others to boost cap amount or regain. It will be quite the feat for CCP to pull off all that while maintaining in game balance. well there one issue I thought of. Does cap regen only if no modules are active? or does it regen at a constant rate? If cap regens at constant rate then we need to check the math again. 100 cap at 10 cap regen per second. module has an activation cost of 25 cap and duration of 5 seconds 25 cap / 5 seconds = 5 cap per second cost cap regens at 10, so that means you could run the module forever. so duration of modules is very important. you could run two of the above module forever. another scenario: 100 cap, 10 cap regen per second, module activation costs 50 cap and has a 2 second duration. 50 cap / 2 seconds = 25 cap per second cost cap regens at 10 cap per second, and cap used per second is 25, so you're negative 15 cap per second 100 still have a total cap pool of 100. this would deplete at a rate of 15 cap per second. 100 cap / 15 cap per second would mean you modules would last for 6.6 seconds before you ran out of cap. using additional modules would drain your cap even faster and you modules would last even less time than 6.6 seconds
That was actually a concept I was considering. If the passive modules you have fit that are reducing your regen rate....if you're at full HP, then they're not really running, so they shouldn't be altering your regen rate. So at full HP your cap would theoretically recharge more quickly.
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