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Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1270	Posted - 2016.11.21 21:08:00 - [31] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Fair points from both of you and I wont argue with what you feel is critical or important, because that is your opinion and I won't tell you that you're wrong (because I don't think that you are). I guess I approach it from this perspective. They've told us very little about Nova. But of what they have told us, Nove will NOT have an EVE link initially, and if there ever is a link, it will be purely on an economic scale. This is also very in-line with Rattati's opinion of EVE as well as the opinion of EVE devs in regards to linking to other games...namely, they simply don't seem too interested in doing it. Is this unfortunate? Yes. Is it reasonable? Up for debate. Would it be great if there was a link? Absolutely, but there won't be, and that's simply a reality we have to deal with. So I guess the angle I'm going for is effectively this: Aside from the romantic ideal of what the EVE link offers, and how that is appealing in concept....what elements can be added to Nova that are self contained and offer similar gameplay/meta dynamics, such that at the very least, the Nova universe still feels large and connected, even if not directly linked to EVE Online. Sorry Pokey, but the instant you talk about Nova not having an "EvE link", I just wonder why I keep reading. There simply is no point to me in developing Nova without it. It might be a reasonably good game. That won't matter to me, because it doesn't exist in the New Eden universe. Yes, it might be located there but without the lore, without the interconnection with other games in that universe, it's just not going to cut it. It will just be another game that CCP has developed using the development environment that they're turning New Eden into. Essentially, CCP appears to be moving away from everything that was good about EvE Online, abandoning the very things that made it and still make it superior, particularly the huge population of dedicated players who see it as an alternate universe NOT a game. They won't play Nova because it won't be part of that alternate universe, it will be just a game, and they won't be interested in it, for the same reason they weren't interested in Dust, Walking in Stations, etc, that being that they saw the resources dedicated to those as being wasted when they could have been invested into EvE. You talk about the "romantic ideal of what the EVE link offers", but to an EvE player, it's nothing about that. It's about how other games in the New Eden universe impact EvE, making it better or worse in some way, whether they would even think to play them. To a non-EvE player, it will simply be about how good the game is, and in a market that's already full of FPSs, without not just an "EvE link" but rather a fully functional interaction between Nova and EvE, it would not be unique enough to flourish. The whole episode feels to me like CCP has been taken over by someone who doesn't see the point in EvE and is determined to turn CCP into just another games developer. If they lose EvE in the progress, I think they might as well shut up shop. I don't think that will happen unless they deliberately destroy EvE, because of the massive player base that live in that universe. But if they just keep squandering resources on the next glitzy toy they will never expand the New Eden universe, which is what I believe they would need to do to stay successful.
byte modal 1110	Posted - 2016.11.22 00:18:00 - [32] - Quote I bit my tongue with my reply, so add most everything Alena said to my earlier post to help solidify my opinion. I entertained the idea of what if for the sake of conversation, but honestly? I see no point in conversation or the game if the basis of discussion starts with the assumption of no link for all reasons already listed. Regrettably. For me, there is no going forward from that. If that's the cap, then I will be disappointed in squandered potential. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8798	Posted - 2016.11.22 14:45:00 - [33] - Quote Well Alena then you might as well quit now, because it's not going to have an EVE link. Maybe someday an indirect economic link, but not right away, and certainly not anytime soon. In the meantime I'm still willing to see how it turns out and see what can be done given the limitations they've set forth. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1284	Posted - 2016.11.22 17:12:00 - [34] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well Alena then you might as well quit now, because it's not going to have an EVE link. Maybe someday an indirect economic link, but not right away, and certainly not anytime soon. In the meantime I'm still willing to see how it turns out and see what can be done given the limitations they've set forth. Pokey, in all honesty I already have quit, in that I don't expect Nova to fulfill my requirements. Unlike the rest of my EvE brethren, I will probably still try it because I'm curious. It was that curiosity that got me into Dust when everyone was saying it was a waste of time and money and I did enjoy it to an extent, but for me it was still very much enjoyment of those New Eden characteristics, the fact that I trained exclusively Caldari, for instance, and Gallente on my alt. From what I can see even that distinction will be removed right from go with Nova. I don't say I won't try it, but I can say now it will have to be a very good game in its own right to hold me without the New Eden link. I'm already back in EvE Online on a daily basis and thoroughly enjoying it. So are many former Dusters, who have discovered what we already knew but which was somewhat hidden to us in Dust. Alpha clones mean we can play for free as our chosen race, which means for the first time, CCP has actually built in the race distinctions somewhat meaningfully, at least into EvE. Removing them from Nova seems a bit strange to me in that light.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8800	Posted - 2016.11.22 17:30:00 - [35] - Quote No racial distinction in Nova? I'm confused to what you are reffering to. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1284	Posted - 2016.11.22 17:58:00 - [36] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: No racial distinction in Nova? I'm confused to what you are reffering to. Perhaps things have changed from when I last looked, but it appeared to me that everyone was going to be just one race, with a mixture of weapons from various races, so there was effectively no racial distinction, just a mixture, right from the start. Is that not the case?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8800	Posted - 2016.11.22 18:23:00 - [37] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: No racial distinction in Nova? I'm confused to what you are reffering to. Perhaps things have changed from when I last looked, but it appeared to me that everyone was going to be just one race, with a mixture of weapons from various races, so there was effectively no racial distinction, just a mixture, right from the start. Is that not the case? I think you may have misinterpreted what was said. (This is my understanding of course) But the initial suits you start off with will be raceless, however the next progression tier up you will select a racial specialization. This is in line with past discussions with Rattati that he doesn't like forcing players to select a race for their gear immediately since as you know, even say an Amarr Assault plays very differently from a Minmatar assault. I imagine the base raceless solution is to provide new players with a more "On average this is what this role will feel like" before they select a specific race that may feel more polarized. In a way you could think of the Raceless suits as the old Basic Frames, just with 1 race instead of 4. Overall I like the idea to provide a more streamlined NPE gear progression. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1190	Posted - 2016.11.22 19:14:00 - [38] - Quote Pokey, I think what Alena is trying to convey is he'd like New Eden to be the Marvel Cinematic universe, and you're supporting canning the 3rd Avengers film to make another Thor The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments
byte modal 1112	Posted - 2016.11.22 19:18:00 - [39] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Pokey, I think what Alena is trying to convey is he'd like New Eden to be the Marvel Cinematic universe, and you're supporting canning the 3rd Avengers film to make another Thor <3<3<3 If only I could be efficient. I. Am. Jelly. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8800	Posted - 2016.11.22 20:04:00 - [40] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Pokey, I think what Alena is trying to convey is they'd like New Eden to be the Marvel Cinematic universe, and you're supporting canning the 3rd Avengers film to make another Thor First of all I am in no means supporting the notion on no EVE link. In fact I really hope there is one eventually. I am however simply stating that we already know there will not be a link at launch and that's not going to change. I am however simply asking....hey, there isn't an EVE link, but how can we still make it an engaging universe even with that limitation in mind. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer

Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1190	Posted - 2016.11.22 20:22:00 - [41] - Quote Hmm.. maybe I explained Alena's opinion but not yours How about, Alena wants New Eden to be like the Marvel cinematic universe, but they really like the fantastic four and thinks they're essential to the Avengers 3 storyline. Pokey's like "they're not even part of the same studio, it's not going to happen". Alena says "but what about Spiderman, he was in Avengers 2". Pokey "it's not going to happen, not after that mess that was last film (FF 2015)" The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8800	Posted - 2016.11.22 20:26:00 - [42] - Quote facepalm Ok nevermind. Sorry I said anything, clearly my intention isn't getting through. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
byte modal 1112	Posted - 2016.11.22 21:09:00 - [43] - Quote lol. big hugs to everyone. tough thread. emotional thread kitten bacon taco (nom)
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 16151	Posted - 2016.11.22 21:58:00 - [44] - Quote Interesting plot twist on page 3. I did NOT see that coming! Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Aiwha Bait Incorruptibles 373	Posted - 2016.11.28 02:09:00 - [45] - Quote Holy ****, thanks for the responses, guys. Sorry I havent popped in to check the thread out sooner. Was doing family stuff than Thanksgiving. Again, thanks for the responses, everybody. Hopefully this encourages more exploration about how CCP can properly marry the two games together, should they choose to do so, and if not, how they can make a solid game in an overcrowded FPS market. "Bait is too adorable to stab" - Zaria Min Deir Every hole is goal. - 1NC0R
Swiss Forsaken 0.P. 43	Posted - 2016.11.28 05:33:00 - [46] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: I may be biased because the reason I heard about Dust and started playing is because of the EVE link. To those who werenGÇÖt playing EVE before what brought you to Dust? 3 things brought me to Dust: 1. Getting the **** stomped out of me every match for the first month. 2. The fact that I didnt understand it, it took a long time to really grasp what was going on in dust. It wasnt battlefield, it was a puzzle just as much as it was a shooter and an MMO 3. And really what kept me there was the social aspect of the game, especially the social engineering, from the false flag projects, to the corp spying, and even the bribery and fraud, it really was like living in a different world. No game I've ever played was as compelling as dust. Havent really found anything remotely like it.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8813	Posted - 2016.11.29 00:14:00 - [47] - Quote We discussed this topic, and by discussed I mean I said some things that will probably trigger the **** out of people, in this week's episode of Biomassed http://biomassed.net/2016/11/28/episode-133-cats-on-morphine/ EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 13672	Posted - 2016.11.29 01:09:00 - [48] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: I don't consider anything that doesn't have an EvE link to be operating fundamentally in New Eden. They may say it does but if it doesn't have an EvE link it could be anywhere. You have a very unique definition of what constitutes as operating in New Eden. But just so you know that is YOUR definition. Not mine or that of anyone else's. To me, my definition of what operates fundamentally in New Eden doesn't even require a direct online connection to Eve Online itself. To me, it's about the lore. The backstory. The history of the factions, the politics, the personal grudges between the four known empires of New Eden. If the dropsuit I wear is MInmatar by design, then I am already operating in New Eden. If I fly as a Valkyrie and see a wreckage of an Amarrian battleship, that I already see myself in New Eden. When I'm a Gunjack defending my boss' illegal mining barge against a Dramiel, Abaddon, and even a Rattlesnake, while fending off volleys of missiles coming from a Nemesis. then I already see the connection to New Eden. As a longstanding inhabitant of New Eden itself (2008 to the present) I speak with experience when I say that I don't need some digital connection to Eve Online's Tranquility Server to see that Gunjack, Valkyrie, and likely Project Nova are all operating fundamentally in New Eden. And that is MY definition of what constitutes as operating in New Eden. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
byte modal 1115	Posted - 2016.11.29 04:25:00 - [49] - Quote Yeah. 'Cept I think he was pretty up front about it being his opinion. And It's not that unique as I'm pretty much of the same opinion. We've both said we'll play the game and hopefully it will be enjoyable. That is another matter from still being disappointed at the missed potential. This thread is weird. Also, nice generalizations in the episode cough. A few good observations were made, but sigh at redefining Kats who would enjoy the link as whining they will never play it. We've said we will play it. And will likely have fun at it. That's not the topic. Triggered? Nah. Just more disappointment from names I generally respect. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8813	Posted - 2016.11.29 05:29:00 - [50] - Quote byte modal wrote: Yeah. 'Cept I think he was pretty up front about it being his opinion. And It's not that unique as I'm pretty much of the same opinion. We've both said we'll play the game and hopefully it will be enjoyable. That is another matter from still being disappointed at the missed potential. This thread is weird. Also, nice generalizations in the episode cough. A few good observations were made, but sigh at redefining Kats who would enjoy the link as whining they will never play it. We've said we will play it. And will likely have fun at it. That's not the topic. Triggered? Nah. Just more disappointment from names I generally respect. If someone doesn't fit the statement made, then they were really not the kind of person that was being discussed. I have been told by people that they absolutely will not even try it, which are the kinds of people being reffered to. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer

byte modal 1115	Posted - 2016.11.29 15:42:00 - [51] - Quote Yeah. I admit I'm pissy. lol. Sorry if I'm venting some of that here a bit. More than just the forums these past two weeks. This thread though!! ;) Still, in context of the political climate we've just survived, regardless of your position it's always been a pet peeve of mine to simplify the opposing view to the lowest hanging fruit. That's easy. That's not a discussion. That's generalizing the easiest target when the opposing view isn't even represented. Disappointment is broader. Through all the distilling of personalities here since the server shutdown, those left are those I've come to find considerate and open-minded in discussion of conflicting views. Without the conflict. Eh. I suppose I *was* triggered. Just I expected more from those I respect. Too, EvE and now the remnants of DUST have taken sentimental spots in me. I tend to be idealistic and want to improve things to their best possible potential. It's not so much about a game, as it is about the idea of what a game is by challenging the context of other games around it. IMHO, DUST failed its potential. That's not to say the potential is wrong, just the method in which aspects of DUST were watered down for a variety of reasons were wrong. Pointing to Orbitals, FacWar, etc., leads the discussion within the confines of just those limited possibilities of an obsolete game. Most of which failed depending on your measure. For me, it's difficult to have a discussion about what I would personally hope for in NOVA if the conversation is restricted to just the failures of its predecessor. For me, the questions should be more in line with "Why were Orbitals never really expanded on to give pilots a true incentive for playing or for feeling they had a reasonable sense of control in the outcome of the ground battles?" Granted, it was on the ps3 and with an original dev team with little experience, but the conversation is for what NOVA could be in context of DUST's shortcomings. Those few integrations were weak. Maybe they were the easiest to achieve given all the restrictions. Are we still restricted with NOVA? What is realistic in that context? Perhaps there are more interesting yet practical approaches that could be explored for NOVA that would never have seen the light of day in DUST. That is a discussion---assuming the topic is our opinions on the connection or lack of a connection to EvE. I thought it was. Use DUST as a lesson learned and adapt. Or scrap it and die. What's good for the goose, and all. That's what I thought it was all about ;) At the end of the day though, this is all moot. We are left with what we are left with, which at the moment is nothing and only hopes of something significantly less than CCP's potential. Again, this is my opinion and nothing more. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8815	Posted - 2016.11.29 17:40:00 - [52] - Quote I do apologize if you felt I was over simplifying the conversation. Unfortunately we had a bit of target show length and I had to keep such a broad topic fairly tightly constrained for the sake of the show. I thought I clearly stated that I was doing that and admitted at the start that there is obviously a larger discussion to be had but it would be at a later time. If I failed to express that in a manner which was clear, I deeply apologize. That being said you absolutely 100% are not wrong to question and have the conversation of "But what could we do better to avoid the issues that plagued this system in Dust" and that is an extremely valid topic and we will probably cover it at one point on the show. You are of course welcome to join in on that as well. Please understand though that I was speaking more from the perspective of "This is the reality of the limitations we face at launch. So how can we make the best of it given those limitations?". Please do not think of it as me simply throwing in the towel because, like you, I truely do wish for a workable and meaningful link. At the same time, I don't think it's unrealistic to get the core game out (with the persistent large universe elements self contained) first, and then use that strong foundation to build a bridge to EVE. I think in that regard we share the same vision, albeit a difference in when that should happen. For them to flat out say "we are not doing it at launch" is a pretty powerful message. And while player feedback should of course be taken into account, to change that decision at this point is tremendous and not something a company is willing to do at this stage of the game. CCP is going to focus on a deliverable product, and I honestly beleive they can produce something that gives near identical...hell better practical results in terms of Persistance/Big universe mechanics than Dust ever did. Should they simply stop there and accept that as done? Absolutely not, but I think for initial release, if they are able to pull off what I have described, the lack of an EVE link is perfectly acceptable. Should the continue on to that end dream after that? I really do hope so. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
byte modal 1115	Posted - 2016.11.29 17:48:00 - [53] - Quote Yeah. I agree, really. It is what it is. Most of my commenting here really is to the OP I guess, with a recent flavor from the biomass ep ;) I did edit my post above to elaborate on the type of questions I would have enjoyed. Honest, I don't think I've listened to the show before so I may have my voices mixed up with who is saying what. Host's comments I thought were thorough and well balanced, given the original restrictions of the topic offered. bla bla bla. I ramble. OK, lunch break. I've gotten paid enough to forum rant today. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8815	Posted - 2016.11.29 17:57:00 - [54] - Quote byte modal wrote: Yeah. I agree, really. It is what it is. Most of my commenting here really is to the OP I guess, with a recent flavor from the biomass ep ;) I did edit my post above to elaborate on the type of questions I would have enjoyed. Honest, I don't think I've listened to the show before so I may have my voices mixed up with who is saying what. Host's comments I thought were thorough and well balanced, given the original restrictions of the topic offered. bla bla bla. I ramble. OK, lunch break. I've gotten paid enough to forum rant today. brohug We will hit up a more broad version of this discussion at a later date. Trust me thought, there is a reason to my madness. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Moorian Flav 408	Posted - 2016.11.29 19:01:00 - [55] - Quote I personally gave up on design discussions probably less than halfway through DUST's release cycle as it seemed to me CCP was not listening to the most popular ideas but rather to the ideas of specific players. There was a ton of good, popular ideas on the Features and Idea Discussions board that simply went ignored by CCP. I was initially mad about that but it is CCP's game and they can do what they want. I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit 3035	Posted - 2016.11.29 20:02:00 - [56] - Quote Aiwha Bait wrote: So recently in the Project Nova and Biomassed channels on the Discord server, I've seen people chewing on the idea of Factional Warfare and an EVE Online link in Nova. I want to put some questions out to the community just to consolidate everybody's opinion on the necessity of such link. 1. Does Nova need a link of some kind to EVE Online at all? Why or why not, or does it even matter? a. Does that link to make the game "good" or "successful?" Why or why not? 2. In what way should a link be implemented, if at all? Explain 3. Does the idea of a link to EVE Online and Factional Warfare or Planetary Conquest go hand in hand? Why or why not? 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? I look forward to seeing what everybody thinks about the topic! Thanks in advanced, guys. Yes. Yes please. I want to have the feeling of being a part of that universe. And even if it's "just" a market integration with Nova players earning resources which can be bought by Eve players to produce Nova equipment. That way CCP could make the integration without one game depending on the other (as that is something they don't want). Eve players would only need the resources for Nova equipment, and should no Eve player decide to produce that stuff, it will be seeded by NPCs in Nova. And voila: You have integration between 2 games but they are not dependent on each other. Should both games do well CCP could of course rethink how much integration and dependency they want later on. The obsession is, that it's something unique you haven't seen in other games yet. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Aiwha Bait Incorruptibles 374	Posted - 2016.11.29 20:32:00 - [57] - Quote Swiss Forsaken wrote: No game I've ever played was as compelling as dust. Havent really found anything remotely like it. And this right here, ladies and gentlemen, is what Nova needs to strive to be; "Compelling." Regardless of whether or not the game has an EVE link, Nova has got, I repeat, has got to be compelling. "Bait is too adorable to stab" - Zaria Min Deir Every hole is goal. - 1NC0R


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