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Aiwha Bait Incorruptibles 369	Posted - 2016.11.19 05:52:00 - [1] - Quote So recently in the Project Nova and Biomassed channels on the Discord server, I've seen people chewing on the idea of Factional Warfare and an EVE Online link in Nova. I want to put some questions out to the community just to consolidate everybody's opinion on the necessity of such link. 1. Does Nova need a link of some kind to EVE Online at all? Why or why not, or does it even matter? a. Does that link to make the game "good" or "successful?" Why or why not? 2. In what way should a link be implemented, if at all? Explain 3. Does the idea of a link to EVE Online and Factional Warfare or Planetary Conquest go hand in hand? Why or why not? 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? I look forward to seeing what everybody thinks about the topic! Thanks in advanced, guys. "Bait is too adorable to stab" - Zaria Min Deir Every hole is goal. - 1NC0R
DeadlyAztec11 9722	Posted - 2016.11.19 06:31:00 - [2] - Quote It should if they have any grandiose ideas of overtaking other massive shooters like Planet Side, Battlefield or Battlefront. Particularly amongst the casual player base. Reigning them is one thing, but keeping them loyal is another entirely There should be an economic link (money and resources, as well as manufacturing when and if it is developed), there should be a corporate link, and a battle link where wars in space and on the ground affect one another Yes, because it gives people a reason to fight everyday. Factional warfare and planetary warfare are the closest that Dust came to having a competitive scene, and that is what defines shooting games now. Though because the game is in the direction of an MMO the skill and dedication of a standard competitive scene like the one in Call of Duty or Overwatch are better spent in something that can affect the entire community (faction and planetary warfare) The obsession is that if the game doesn't have a link to EVE then the entire point of having Dust is redundant. There are better shooting games out there by far, and this is further observed by the negative affects of the progression system. What is meant by that notion is that better equipment and abilities were unlocked through time and/or money. At the start of the games life everyone would be on par because they would start with nothing and progress more or less together. People entering the game months later would find themselves at a severe disadvantage and were often kept from having fun because their gear and abilities were not on par with those who had been playing the game longer. Therefore, the progression system was counterproductive to growing the player base over time. This rate of counterproductivity was supposed to be offset by the positive effect of enjoying a link with EVE that would allow veteran players to fight against other veterans in large scale pitched warfare, and so new players would be allowed to go under the radar and fight other new players while avoiding veteran players until the former were on par with the latter. Without the progression system, and without the link isn't Dust/Legion simply a different shade of Planetside 2? That said, on an opinionated note, I believe it would be best to put the shooting mechanics of the game first and foremost, and develop the link afterwards. No, not as an afterthought, but merely commit to it later after the shooting mechanics are well developed. It seems that when Dust tried to coordinate both at the same time it became nearly impossible to come to a consensus despite both areas being seemingly unrelated. Though they were related because PC and FW were heavily dependent on the balance of the weapon. Therefore, an attempt at balancing the fighting elements of the game often upset the equilibrium of PC and FW. This seems to have made sense in BO2 and Overwatch, as their competitive modes were not operational until after most of the balance had already been achieved after the launch of the game. Building a project has everything to do with its foundation, and so just like a house if one attempts to lay the foundation and build the levels above it simultaneously one will almost certainly fail. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 2844	Posted - 2016.11.19 06:31:00 - [3] - Quote I think, make Nova's connection with EVE the same as it was with Dust and EVE, only with more features, an expanded version of sorts. It's nice to be able to change something in a different game through a game you're playing, it gives you the feeling of power and makes you say; "Hey, I caused that! ...with a bunch of friends, but I CAUSED THAT!" A pirate walks into a bar... Bartender: "Why do you have a wheel in your pants"? Pirate: "Arr! It's drivin' me nuts!
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 14271	Posted - 2016.11.19 08:17:00 - [4] - Quote Aiwha Bait wrote: 1. Does Nova need a link of some kind to EVE Online at all? Why or why not, or does it even matter? a. Does that link to make the game "good" or "successful?" Why or why not? Project nova does not need an EVE connection to be successful. It can be a great FPS set in the New Eden universe, using some of the guiding New Eden design principles and aesthetics without interacting with EVE. Aiwha Bait wrote: 2. In what way should a link be implemented, if at all? Explain As Rattati said during fanfest 2016, a purely economic link. In other words, exchanging some kind of raw materials or currencies. Combat integration would require significantly more investment from the CCP Iceland team than what we should expect from them. Instead, mercenaries and capsuleers can depend on each other for rare goods. This would likely be implemented at the same time as a social link like corporations hosting both EVE capsuleers and nova mercs. Aiwha Bait wrote: 3. Does the idea of a link to EVE Online and Factional Warfare or Planetary Conquest go hand in hand? Why or why not? I will speak on FW specifically, as I am not well versed in planetary conquest. In my opinion, no. FW can exist in nova without input from EVE mechanically. Simply put the fighting in the dirt on a planet can happen independently of fighting in space. Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? It was one of the more unique features DUST 514 did offer. I mean Extra Credits even did an episode over it. (Lol @ them ******* up and calling it DUST 541) The concept of your actions in DUST resonating into the persistent universe of EVE was especially alluring. It allowed players who thought EVE was either too complicated or boring to be a part of New Eden using a genre many, many gamers are familiar with: First Person Shooters. My advice to you, playa.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1265	Posted - 2016.11.19 09:26:00 - [5] - Quote I think I basicly don't care anymore. I won't be interested if it doesn't have a link. If it does, however, I would definitely explore the interconnection and interaction between them. But I really don't expect them to put a link in it.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1182	Posted - 2016.11.19 14:00:00 - [6] - Quote I may be biased because the reason I heard about Dust and started playing is because of the EVE link. To those who werenGÇÖt playing EVE before what brought you to Dust? The FPS genre is a crowded market and given NovaGÇÖs budget is not going to compete against Overwatch/Battlefield/COD on their terms, it can have solid gungame but it is never going to beat their polish. Therefore it needs a different hook, something to draw in new players, a shared universe with EVE is unique selling point, something that other companies would struggle to replicate. Dust was a complex FPS, the skill progression, fitting system, shield/armour mechanics and economy mean that it appeals to a certain type of player, someone who wants to invest more than just a GÇÿpick up and playGÇÖ game like COD. The vision of linking the game helps to signpost GÇÿthis is a long term gameGÇÖ, like EVE your skills and wealth are not going to be reset in some sequal. This makes the investment in learning the game mechanics and spreadsheets worth it. The actual mechanics behind a link are very much open to debate, they donGÇÖt have to be overly complex or even included at launch. Start off with a shared universe, i.e. a Nova Corp owned Space elevator and orbital structure should be visible in EVE, with NPC mechanics filling in the roles that EVE players could one day take on. Over time new features can be developed the links between the games built. Another point to consider is with EVE going F2P a link could also help drive players to try the two games, theyGÇÖre on the same platform and similar mechanics in each game help to lower the barrier to entry. If I was to sum up my thoughts about the Nova/EVE link it would be that it doesnGÇÖt need a link in order to be a good game, but a good game is no guarantee of success. The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments
byte modal 1101	Posted - 2016.11.19 16:37:00 - [7] - Quote Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel? If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here. Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work? kitten bacon taco (nom)
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1266	Posted - 2016.11.19 19:28:00 - [8] - Quote byte modal wrote: Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel? If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here. Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work? It's fairly straightforward for me. There's no point in a FPS from CCP that doesn't have the EvE link. Everything in the New Eden has the EvE link in some form. Leave it out and there's just no point. There are better FPS's out there.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 02:10:00 - [9] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: byte modal wrote: Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel? If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here. Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work? It's fairly straightforward for me. There's no point in a FPS from CCP that doesn't have the EvE link. Everything in the New Eden has the EvE link in some form. Leave it out and there's just no point. There are better FPS's out there. Both Gunjack and Valkyrie have zero EVE link. Are there other titles I'm not aware of thatare in New Eden with an EVE link? EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 16148	Posted - 2016.11.20 02:51:00 - [10] - Quote The Forums. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 03:14:00 - [11] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: I may be biased because the reason I heard about Dust and started playing is because of the EVE link. To those who werenGÇÖt playing EVE before what brought you to Dust? MAG. MAG brought me to Dust. I actually started playing EVE because I was waiting for the Dust beta and wanted to familiarize myself with the lore, fitting, ect. But EVE Online had zero influence in me looking to Dust, instead it was the mechanics of Dust that reminded me of MAG. MAG had a rudimentary fitting system for armor and guns, vehicle combat, objective based game modes, and even orbital-like airstrikes and squad commands.there was even equipment like repair tools, first aid kits, sensor jamming, passive scanners. It even had a faction warfare style meta that offered in game bonuses for whichever faction was winning that territory at the time. Regardless my point is that the in game features that Dust offered were expanded ideas that MAG brought to the table, and I wanted more of that. Pretty much none of it relied on an EVE link and it was still quite unique to MAG/DUST. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
byte modal 1102	Posted - 2016.11.20 03:52:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: byte modal wrote: Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel? If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here. Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work? It's fairly straightforward for me. There's no point in a FPS from CCP that doesn't have the EvE link. Everything in the New Eden has the EvE link in some form. Leave it out and there's just no point. There are better FPS's out there. Both Gunjack and Valkyrie have zero EVE link. Are there other titles I'm not aware of thatare in New Eden with an EVE link? Both are novelties in VR. DUST/Legion/Not Legion are average FPS titles if only standalone. Just giving my opinion. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 04:20:00 - [13] - Quote So...you think that the EVE link is the only meaningful difference between DUST and other FPS titles? Because as far I remember there were a shitload of other elements that were completely unrelated to the pathetically weak EVE link. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
byte modal 1102	Posted - 2016.11.20 05:22:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: So...you think that the EVE link is the only meaningful difference between DUST and other FPS titles? Because as far I remember there were a shitload of other elements that were completely unrelated to the pathetically weak EVE link. I think you're missing the point. I don't think the link to EvE was the only meaningful difference between DUST and other FPS titles. As you pointed out, there were a shitload of other elements that were completely unrelated that separated it from other titles: hit detection, frame rate, balance, obsolete platform, poor management, glitches, known SP boosting bugs, etc. I am suggesting that some number of players came to DUST with the expectation of something resembling the universe they marketed. Some number of players came from EvE expecting a boots-on-the-ground extension of that universe and lore. SOON our markets would connect and SOON industries and PVP would overlap. That did not happen. Despite the several truly unique conceptual aspects of DUST, it simply did not become what many thought it was going to. Player count was never great and only dropped as people realized what was not going to play out among other reasons. And there were a few reasons. I am not saying CCP can't make a good standalone FPS. They just didn't. Even if they do at some hypothetical point in the future, what would make it unique enough to attract a larger player base to keep progression and balance in check? My opinion is to do what they initially wanted. I bought into the DUST dream (or hype depending on your perspective) and absolutely wanted that connection because that was something truly unique and special. That was enough for me to wade through the muck of it all on the hopes of 'one day when.' That is partly why I still linger here on this forum. I know I am not the only one. I am also of the idealistic belief that CCP is something special. They have the vision and potential talent to create something as special. They have an entire universe at their disposal. Use it? Else just make another shooter. Are there not enough of those already? Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 06:38:00 - [15] - Quote byte modal wrote: [quote=Pokey Dravon] Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then. EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game? I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DeadlyAztec11 9724	Posted - 2016.11.20 08:06:00 - [16] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: ...The FPS genre is a crowded market and given NovaGÇÖs budget is not going to compete against Overwatch/Battlefield/COD on their terms, it can have solid gungame but it is never going to beat their polish. Therefore it needs a different hook, something to draw in new players, a shared universe with EVE is unique selling point, something that other companies would struggle to replicate. ... If I was to sum up my thoughts about the Nova/EVE link it would be that it doesnGÇÖt need a link in order to be a good game, but a good game is no guarantee of success. I'll agree with this. If Project Nova tries to compete on a purely FPS model then it will find itself competing with COD/Battlefield/Battlefront/Titanfall/Halo/Planetside 2. All these games a great at what they do, but the market is over saturated. You need something new to capture the players' attention, and a link to EVE seems like the most clear path to take. If Nova is trying to reinvent the wheel then it might find itself coming up short next to its competitors that have loyal fan bases. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1267	Posted - 2016.11.20 09:16:00 - [17] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: byte modal wrote: Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel? If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here. Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work? It's fairly straightforward for me. There's no point in a FPS from CCP that doesn't have the EvE link. Everything in the New Eden has the EvE link in some form. Leave it out and there's just no point. There are better FPS's out there. Both Gunjack and Valkyrie have zero EVE link. Are there other titles I'm not aware of thatare in New Eden with an EVE link? I don't consider anything that doesn't have an EvE link to be operating fundamentally in New Eden. They may say it does but if it doesn't have an EvE link it could be anywhere.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 09:17:00 - [18] - Quote Ok then there are no games in New Eden aside from EVE by that definition. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1267	Posted - 2016.11.20 09:25:00 - [19] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: byte modal wrote: [quote=Pokey Dravon] Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then. EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game? I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE. I think this is fundamentally the issue. There will always be those who don't see the point in the link to EvE. Pokey is clearly one of them. But there are those like me, who can't see the point in NOT having that EvE link. From my perspective, it's ALL about EvE one way or another. If you produce an FPS in the EvE universe it should have an EvE link. For the same reason, Gunjack and Valkyrie are both titles I will probably never play. I may have, not knowing there was no EvE link, but now I've read that there isn't, I certainly won't be playing them.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1267	Posted - 2016.11.20 09:26:00 - [20] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Ok then there are no games in New Eden aside from EVE by that definition. Agreed.

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 10:12:00 - [21] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: byte modal wrote: [quote=Pokey Dravon] Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then. EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game? I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE. I think this is fundamentally the issue. There will always be those who don't see the point in the link to EvE. Pokey is clearly one of them. But there are those like me, who can't see the point in NOT having that EvE link. From my perspective, it's ALL about EvE one way or another. If you produce an FPS in the EvE universe it should have an EvE link. For the same reason, Gunjack and Valkyrie are both titles I will probably never play. I may have, not knowing there was no EvE link, but now I've read that there isn't, I certainly won't be playing them. Pretty rude of you to assume I don't understand the point when I've clearly stated before that I think the like would be a good thing. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1186	Posted - 2016.11.20 18:36:00 - [22] - Quote I'd like to clarify my position on Faction Warfare in Nova I think Faction Warfare in Dust was very much a product of trying to link the 2 games, the match outcome affected EVE and (with some coordination) EVE pilots could drop OBs, Nova not having that link means there is less reason to use FW as the backdrop. I still think there will be the same style game mode available - No Matchmaking, Friendly Fire, Fight for a specific entity, but it could be through fighting for specific corporations, or Player Corp Raids The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1267	Posted - 2016.11.20 18:51:00 - [23] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: byte modal wrote: [quote=Pokey Dravon] Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then. EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game? I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE. I think this is fundamentally the issue. There will always be those who don't see the point in the link to EvE. Pokey is clearly one of them. But there are those like me, who can't see the point in NOT having that EvE link. From my perspective, it's ALL about EvE one way or another. If you produce an FPS in the EvE universe it should have an EvE link. For the same reason, Gunjack and Valkyrie are both titles I will probably never play. I may have, not knowing there was no EvE link, but now I've read that there isn't, I certainly won't be playing them. Pretty rude of you to assume I don't understand the point when I've clearly stated before that I think the like would be a good thing. Sorry if I haven't read everything you've written. Wasn't meaning to be rude, just responding to the content of this post. For the record, by the way, I don't consider all this to be about an "EvE link", I consider it to be about a "New Eden" link. EvE Online is just one game that has that link. In the beginning, Dust was going to have a similar link but what it ended up with was so watered down that it looked more like it was linked to EvE Online (albeit really weakly) rather than New Eden. At least that's the way people have seemed to come to see it. To me, New Eden and everything in it, has to have that link to have a point. Since CCP decided to follow the path of just developing sci fi games without such a link to New Eden, the only thing standing them alone from other games of each genre is how good they are without that link. For people who love the New Eden experience, they just don't cut it. CCP severely stuffed up when they made such a mess of Dust and its supposed EvE liink. I was then an EvE pilot and without the "EvE link" to add a level of meaning to these games, I'm probably just not going to play them. You talk about these games not "clinging to the bootstraps of EVE". To me it's not EVE that they're not clinging to - it's New Eden. To CCP, New Eden appears to be now just a platform for games development, with no further meaning across their games.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1267	Posted - 2016.11.20 19:16:00 - [24] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: I'd like to clarify my position on Faction Warfare in Nova I think Faction Warfare in Dust was very much a product of trying to link the 2 games, the match outcome affected EVE and (with some coordination) EVE pilots could drop OBs, Nova not having that link means there is less reason to use FW as the backdrop. I still think there will be the same style game mode available - No Matchmaking, Friendly Fire, Fight for a specific entity, but it could be through fighting for specific corporations, or Player Corp Raids I think the problem is the concept that it's EvE Online that has the lore, the FW, the races, the factions, etc. To me, it's NEW EDEN that has all that, EvE Online was just the first game in that world, and therefore the one that everyone sees as "owning" all that stuff. And then CCP goes and makes such a botch of the same sort of concepts in Dust as to make it look like Dust just "tried" to have that "link" and failed. Unless games are developed within the New Eden framework with such things included in them from scratch, it's just too difficult to "add" them later. Trying to do so makes it look like an afterthought. Failing to do so makes it look like they thought it was a good idea but failed to get it right. In this it would be like Dust but from a different direction - Dust initially was to have the link and failed. Nova is supposed to not have the link at the start and maybe have it later on, but will probably fail again. It certainly won't have enough of a link to satisfy my wish to see all the New Eden games interconnected in this way. Gunjack and Valkyrie already fail in that regard. One more failure will be irrelevant to me.
byte modal 1103	Posted - 2016.11.20 20:19:00 - [25] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: byte modal wrote: [quote=Pokey Dravon] Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then. EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game? I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE. No. I'm not sure you see where my perspective is grounded. That's on me for poorly translating an idealist notion. Sorry for that. As Alena commented, the connection is New Eden; and by extension, the creativity and wonder that was born of CCP years ago. It (NOVA) does not have to be connected to the world of EvE to be fun. Let me state that one more time: NOVE does NOT have to be connected to the world of EvE to be fun. That is not my argument. CCP has already established something grand with EvE. With something like EvE in your portfolio, why bother with the effort of developing another FPS when "that" game already exists. By "that" game, I mean any FPS that is already behind any other well-established FPS franchise on the shelf today. Hell, even EvE itself isn't all that unique anymore. A side note: I'm curious how much, if at all, this debate plays out in NOVA closed door sessions. Interesting. CCP has demonstrated great ambition and a damned stubbornness in working to develop a gaming world that matches that ambition. Use it. Be ground-breaking. Be ambitious, but learn from the mistakes of DUST. Don't paint my words please. I do not claim NOVA can't be extraordinary without clinging to the heels of EvE. I am suggesting that without the novelty of EvE (New Eden), NOVA is starting at the gate already handicapped in a saturated market that WILL continue to evolve beyond the run and gun that NOVA would be aiming for. That would be like developing a massive evolving game on an outdated platform like the PS3. Oh. Wait. I developed Google. Let's put all our resources into developing a calculator now to keep up with an ever-changing market. No!? It is sad, I can agree. Creating yet another shooter is terribly short-sighted from a marketing perspective, given the scope of what CCP has demonstrated and changing standards. Unfortunately, poor leadership within CCP continually contradicts those ambitions and undermines its own efforts. If they make the game as you describe, it may be fine. I will not refuse to play it, but I will be terribly disappointed in CCP for having an opportunity to create something more while choosing to create something safe, if not dead in the water by release date while other developers are willing to take that risk. To sum this rambling up: let's develop a web page using Adobe PageMill for an average screen resolution of 800x600 and expect to compete with HTML5 responsive interfaces when everything goes mobile at launch. Sure we could do it, but why? Do better. You're totally capable. Still though, <3<3<3 kitten bacon taco (nom)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 23:25:00 - [26] - Quote Fair points from both of you and I wont argue with what you feel is critical or important, because that is your opinion and I won't tell you that you're wrong (because I don't think that you are). I guess I approach it from this perspective. They've told us very little about Nova. But of what they have told us, Nove will NOT have an EVE link initially, and if there ever is a link, it will be purely on an economic scale. This is also very in-line with Rattati's opinion of EVE as well as the opinion of EVE devs in regards to linking to other games...namely, they simply don't seem too interested in doing it. Is this unfortunate? Yes. Is it reasonable? Up for debate. Would it be great if there was a link? Absolutely, but there won't be, and that's simply a reality we have to deal with. So I guess the angle I'm going for is effectively this: Aside from the romantic ideal of what the EVE link offers, and how that is appealing in concept....what elements can be added to Nova that are self contained and offer similar gameplay/meta dynamics, such that at the very least, the Nova universe still feels large and connected, even if not directly linked to EVE Online. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
byte modal 1106	Posted - 2016.11.20 23:40:00 - [27] - Quote Loot-based PVE Legit player market True tiered player progression to prevent newb stomping Skill progression Manufacturing enough to BE self-contained Eh basically cloning EvE without actually using it. But I think this topic is for another thread. Also reevaluate skill progression. Too soon too fast was weird and created more problems to chase. kitten bacon taco (nom)
MEGA MAN7 Mr.Orange 75	Posted - 2016.11.21 00:35:00 - [28] - Quote Aiwha Bait wrote: 1. Does Nova need a link of some kind to EVE Online at all? Why or why not, or does it even matter? a. Does that link to make the game "good" or "successful?" Why or why not? 2. In what way should a link be implemented, if at all? Explain 3. Does the idea of a link to EVE Online and Factional Warfare or Planetary Conquest go hand in hand? Why or why not? 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Thats a perfect exercise for my English exam! Thanks buddy!
Sergeant Sazu Mantodea MC 1094	Posted - 2016.11.21 01:08:00 - [29] - Quote Seems we're fairly split on this. I for one would play again EVE link or not, as Dust held the best support unit experience I've ever had. PlanetSide 2 has it split into Combat Medic and Engineer and TTK is too short for healing to be meaningful. "Stab you to death, stab you to life!" -Truck Fist after knifing a red and reviving me
DeadlyAztec11 9725	Posted - 2016.11.21 05:07:00 - [30] - Quote It's simple gentlemen, we kill the Sansha. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.



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