DUST Search - Getting Some Feelers

Alena Asakura wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

byte modal wrote:

[quote=Pokey Dravon]
Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize.

I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then.

EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment.

Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game?

I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE.

I think this is fundamentally the issue. There will always be those who don't see the point in the link to EvE. Pokey is clearly one of them. But there are those like me, who can't see the point in NOT having that EvE link. From my perspective, it's ALL about EvE one way or another. If you produce an FPS in the EvE universe it should have an EvE link. For the same reason, Gunjack and Valkyrie are both titles I will probably never play. I may have, not knowing there was no EvE link, but now I've read that there isn't, I certainly won't be playing them.


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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 02:10:00 - [1] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: byte modal wrote: Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel? If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here. Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work? It's fairly straightforward for me. There's no point in a FPS from CCP that doesn't have the EvE link. Everything in the New Eden has the EvE link in some form. Leave it out and there's just no point. There are better FPS's out there. Both Gunjack and Valkyrie have zero EVE link. Are there other titles I'm not aware of thatare in New Eden with an EVE link? EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 03:14:00 - [2] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: I may be biased because the reason I heard about Dust and started playing is because of the EVE link. To those who werenGÇÖt playing EVE before what brought you to Dust? MAG. MAG brought me to Dust. I actually started playing EVE because I was waiting for the Dust beta and wanted to familiarize myself with the lore, fitting, ect. But EVE Online had zero influence in me looking to Dust, instead it was the mechanics of Dust that reminded me of MAG. MAG had a rudimentary fitting system for armor and guns, vehicle combat, objective based game modes, and even orbital-like airstrikes and squad commands.there was even equipment like repair tools, first aid kits, sensor jamming, passive scanners. It even had a faction warfare style meta that offered in game bonuses for whichever faction was winning that territory at the time. Regardless my point is that the in game features that Dust offered were expanded ideas that MAG brought to the table, and I wanted more of that. Pretty much none of it relied on an EVE link and it was still quite unique to MAG/DUST. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 04:20:00 - [3] - Quote So...you think that the EVE link is the only meaningful difference between DUST and other FPS titles? Because as far I remember there were a shitload of other elements that were completely unrelated to the pathetically weak EVE link. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 06:38:00 - [4] - Quote byte modal wrote: [quote=Pokey Dravon] Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then. EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game? I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 09:17:00 - [5] - Quote Ok then there are no games in New Eden aside from EVE by that definition. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 10:12:00 - [6] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: byte modal wrote: [quote=Pokey Dravon] Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then. EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game? I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE. I think this is fundamentally the issue. There will always be those who don't see the point in the link to EvE. Pokey is clearly one of them. But there are those like me, who can't see the point in NOT having that EvE link. From my perspective, it's ALL about EvE one way or another. If you produce an FPS in the EvE universe it should have an EvE link. For the same reason, Gunjack and Valkyrie are both titles I will probably never play. I may have, not knowing there was no EvE link, but now I've read that there isn't, I certainly won't be playing them. Pretty rude of you to assume I don't understand the point when I've clearly stated before that I think the like would be a good thing. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8792	Posted - 2016.11.20 23:25:00 - [7] - Quote Fair points from both of you and I wont argue with what you feel is critical or important, because that is your opinion and I won't tell you that you're wrong (because I don't think that you are). I guess I approach it from this perspective. They've told us very little about Nova. But of what they have told us, Nove will NOT have an EVE link initially, and if there ever is a link, it will be purely on an economic scale. This is also very in-line with Rattati's opinion of EVE as well as the opinion of EVE devs in regards to linking to other games...namely, they simply don't seem too interested in doing it. Is this unfortunate? Yes. Is it reasonable? Up for debate. Would it be great if there was a link? Absolutely, but there won't be, and that's simply a reality we have to deal with. So I guess the angle I'm going for is effectively this: Aside from the romantic ideal of what the EVE link offers, and how that is appealing in concept....what elements can be added to Nova that are self contained and offer similar gameplay/meta dynamics, such that at the very least, the Nova universe still feels large and connected, even if not directly linked to EVE Online. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8798	Posted - 2016.11.22 14:45:00 - [8] - Quote Well Alena then you might as well quit now, because it's not going to have an EVE link. Maybe someday an indirect economic link, but not right away, and certainly not anytime soon. In the meantime I'm still willing to see how it turns out and see what can be done given the limitations they've set forth. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8800	Posted - 2016.11.22 17:30:00 - [9] - Quote No racial distinction in Nova? I'm confused to what you are reffering to. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8800	Posted - 2016.11.22 18:23:00 - [10] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: No racial distinction in Nova? I'm confused to what you are reffering to. Perhaps things have changed from when I last looked, but it appeared to me that everyone was going to be just one race, with a mixture of weapons from various races, so there was effectively no racial distinction, just a mixture, right from the start. Is that not the case? I think you may have misinterpreted what was said. (This is my understanding of course) But the initial suits you start off with will be raceless, however the next progression tier up you will select a racial specialization. This is in line with past discussions with Rattati that he doesn't like forcing players to select a race for their gear immediately since as you know, even say an Amarr Assault plays very differently from a Minmatar assault. I imagine the base raceless solution is to provide new players with a more "On average this is what this role will feel like" before they select a specific race that may feel more polarized. In a way you could think of the Raceless suits as the old Basic Frames, just with 1 race instead of 4. Overall I like the idea to provide a more streamlined NPE gear progression. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8800	Posted - 2016.11.22 20:04:00 - [11] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Pokey, I think what Alena is trying to convey is they'd like New Eden to be the Marvel Cinematic universe, and you're supporting canning the 3rd Avengers film to make another Thor First of all I am in no means supporting the notion on no EVE link. In fact I really hope there is one eventually. I am however simply stating that we already know there will not be a link at launch and that's not going to change. I am however simply asking....hey, there isn't an EVE link, but how can we still make it an engaging universe even with that limitation in mind. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8800	Posted - 2016.11.22 20:26:00 - [12] - Quote facepalm Ok nevermind. Sorry I said anything, clearly my intention isn't getting through. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8813	Posted - 2016.11.29 00:14:00 - [13] - Quote We discussed this topic, and by discussed I mean I said some things that will probably trigger the **** out of people, in this week's episode of Biomassed http://biomassed.net/2016/11/28/episode-133-cats-on-morphine/ EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8813	Posted - 2016.11.29 05:29:00 - [14] - Quote byte modal wrote: Yeah. 'Cept I think he was pretty up front about it being his opinion. And It's not that unique as I'm pretty much of the same opinion. We've both said we'll play the game and hopefully it will be enjoyable. That is another matter from still being disappointed at the missed potential. This thread is weird. Also, nice generalizations in the episode cough. A few good observations were made, but sigh at redefining Kats who would enjoy the link as whining they will never play it. We've said we will play it. And will likely have fun at it. That's not the topic. Triggered? Nah. Just more disappointment from names I generally respect. If someone doesn't fit the statement made, then they were really not the kind of person that was being discussed. I have been told by people that they absolutely will not even try it, which are the kinds of people being reffered to. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8815	Posted - 2016.11.29 17:40:00 - [15] - Quote I do apologize if you felt I was over simplifying the conversation. Unfortunately we had a bit of target show length and I had to keep such a broad topic fairly tightly constrained for the sake of the show. I thought I clearly stated that I was doing that and admitted at the start that there is obviously a larger discussion to be had but it would be at a later time. If I failed to express that in a manner which was clear, I deeply apologize. That being said you absolutely 100% are not wrong to question and have the conversation of "But what could we do better to avoid the issues that plagued this system in Dust" and that is an extremely valid topic and we will probably cover it at one point on the show. You are of course welcome to join in on that as well. Please understand though that I was speaking more from the perspective of "This is the reality of the limitations we face at launch. So how can we make the best of it given those limitations?". Please do not think of it as me simply throwing in the towel because, like you, I truely do wish for a workable and meaningful link. At the same time, I don't think it's unrealistic to get the core game out (with the persistent large universe elements self contained) first, and then use that strong foundation to build a bridge to EVE. I think in that regard we share the same vision, albeit a difference in when that should happen. For them to flat out say "we are not doing it at launch" is a pretty powerful message. And while player feedback should of course be taken into account, to change that decision at this point is tremendous and not something a company is willing to do at this stage of the game. CCP is going to focus on a deliverable product, and I honestly beleive they can produce something that gives near identical...hell better practical results in terms of Persistance/Big universe mechanics than Dust ever did. Should they simply stop there and accept that as done? Absolutely not, but I think for initial release, if they are able to pull off what I have described, the lack of an EVE link is perfectly acceptable. Should the continue on to that end dream after that? I really do hope so. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8815	Posted - 2016.11.29 17:57:00 - [16] - Quote byte modal wrote: Yeah. I agree, really. It is what it is. Most of my commenting here really is to the OP I guess, with a recent flavor from the biomass ep ;) I did edit my post above to elaborate on the type of questions I would have enjoyed. Honest, I don't think I've listened to the show before so I may have my voices mixed up with who is saying what. Host's comments I thought were thorough and well balanced, given the original restrictions of the topic offered. bla bla bla. I ramble. OK, lunch break. I've gotten paid enough to forum rant today. brohug We will hit up a more broad version of this discussion at a later date. Trust me thought, there is a reason to my madness. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer