DUST Search - Getting Some Feelers

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Alena Asakura wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

byte modal wrote:

[quote=Pokey Dravon]
Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize.

I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then.

EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment.

Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game?

I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE.

I think this is fundamentally the issue. There will always be those who don't see the point in the link to EvE. Pokey is clearly one of them. But there are those like me, who can't see the point in NOT having that EvE link. From my perspective, it's ALL about EvE one way or another. If you produce an FPS in the EvE universe it should have an EvE link. For the same reason, Gunjack and Valkyrie are both titles I will probably never play. I may have, not knowing there was no EvE link, but now I've read that there isn't, I certainly won't be playing them.

Pretty rude of you to assume I don't understand the point when I've clearly stated before that I think the like would be a good thing.


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Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1265	Posted - 2016.11.19 09:26:00 - [1] - Quote I think I basicly don't care anymore. I won't be interested if it doesn't have a link. If it does, however, I would definitely explore the interconnection and interaction between them. But I really don't expect them to put a link in it.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1266	Posted - 2016.11.19 19:28:00 - [2] - Quote byte modal wrote: Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel? If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here. Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work? It's fairly straightforward for me. There's no point in a FPS from CCP that doesn't have the EvE link. Everything in the New Eden has the EvE link in some form. Leave it out and there's just no point. There are better FPS's out there.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1267	Posted - 2016.11.20 09:16:00 - [3] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: byte modal wrote: Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel? If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here. Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work? It's fairly straightforward for me. There's no point in a FPS from CCP that doesn't have the EvE link. Everything in the New Eden has the EvE link in some form. Leave it out and there's just no point. There are better FPS's out there. Both Gunjack and Valkyrie have zero EVE link. Are there other titles I'm not aware of thatare in New Eden with an EVE link? I don't consider anything that doesn't have an EvE link to be operating fundamentally in New Eden. They may say it does but if it doesn't have an EvE link it could be anywhere.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1267	Posted - 2016.11.20 09:25:00 - [4] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: byte modal wrote: [quote=Pokey Dravon] Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then. EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game? I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE. I think this is fundamentally the issue. There will always be those who don't see the point in the link to EvE. Pokey is clearly one of them. But there are those like me, who can't see the point in NOT having that EvE link. From my perspective, it's ALL about EvE one way or another. If you produce an FPS in the EvE universe it should have an EvE link. For the same reason, Gunjack and Valkyrie are both titles I will probably never play. I may have, not knowing there was no EvE link, but now I've read that there isn't, I certainly won't be playing them.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1267	Posted - 2016.11.20 09:26:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Ok then there are no games in New Eden aside from EVE by that definition. Agreed.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1267	Posted - 2016.11.20 18:51:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: byte modal wrote: [quote=Pokey Dravon] Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then. EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game? I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE. I think this is fundamentally the issue. There will always be those who don't see the point in the link to EvE. Pokey is clearly one of them. But there are those like me, who can't see the point in NOT having that EvE link. From my perspective, it's ALL about EvE one way or another. If you produce an FPS in the EvE universe it should have an EvE link. For the same reason, Gunjack and Valkyrie are both titles I will probably never play. I may have, not knowing there was no EvE link, but now I've read that there isn't, I certainly won't be playing them. Pretty rude of you to assume I don't understand the point when I've clearly stated before that I think the like would be a good thing. Sorry if I haven't read everything you've written. Wasn't meaning to be rude, just responding to the content of this post. For the record, by the way, I don't consider all this to be about an "EvE link", I consider it to be about a "New Eden" link. EvE Online is just one game that has that link. In the beginning, Dust was going to have a similar link but what it ended up with was so watered down that it looked more like it was linked to EvE Online (albeit really weakly) rather than New Eden. At least that's the way people have seemed to come to see it. To me, New Eden and everything in it, has to have that link to have a point. Since CCP decided to follow the path of just developing sci fi games without such a link to New Eden, the only thing standing them alone from other games of each genre is how good they are without that link. For people who love the New Eden experience, they just don't cut it. CCP severely stuffed up when they made such a mess of Dust and its supposed EvE liink. I was then an EvE pilot and without the "EvE link" to add a level of meaning to these games, I'm probably just not going to play them. You talk about these games not "clinging to the bootstraps of EVE". To me it's not EVE that they're not clinging to - it's New Eden. To CCP, New Eden appears to be now just a platform for games development, with no further meaning across their games.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1267	Posted - 2016.11.20 19:16:00 - [7] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: I'd like to clarify my position on Faction Warfare in Nova I think Faction Warfare in Dust was very much a product of trying to link the 2 games, the match outcome affected EVE and (with some coordination) EVE pilots could drop OBs, Nova not having that link means there is less reason to use FW as the backdrop. I still think there will be the same style game mode available - No Matchmaking, Friendly Fire, Fight for a specific entity, but it could be through fighting for specific corporations, or Player Corp Raids I think the problem is the concept that it's EvE Online that has the lore, the FW, the races, the factions, etc. To me, it's NEW EDEN that has all that, EvE Online was just the first game in that world, and therefore the one that everyone sees as "owning" all that stuff. And then CCP goes and makes such a botch of the same sort of concepts in Dust as to make it look like Dust just "tried" to have that "link" and failed. Unless games are developed within the New Eden framework with such things included in them from scratch, it's just too difficult to "add" them later. Trying to do so makes it look like an afterthought. Failing to do so makes it look like they thought it was a good idea but failed to get it right. In this it would be like Dust but from a different direction - Dust initially was to have the link and failed. Nova is supposed to not have the link at the start and maybe have it later on, but will probably fail again. It certainly won't have enough of a link to satisfy my wish to see all the New Eden games interconnected in this way. Gunjack and Valkyrie already fail in that regard. One more failure will be irrelevant to me.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1270	Posted - 2016.11.21 21:08:00 - [8] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Fair points from both of you and I wont argue with what you feel is critical or important, because that is your opinion and I won't tell you that you're wrong (because I don't think that you are). I guess I approach it from this perspective. They've told us very little about Nova. But of what they have told us, Nove will NOT have an EVE link initially, and if there ever is a link, it will be purely on an economic scale. This is also very in-line with Rattati's opinion of EVE as well as the opinion of EVE devs in regards to linking to other games...namely, they simply don't seem too interested in doing it. Is this unfortunate? Yes. Is it reasonable? Up for debate. Would it be great if there was a link? Absolutely, but there won't be, and that's simply a reality we have to deal with. So I guess the angle I'm going for is effectively this: Aside from the romantic ideal of what the EVE link offers, and how that is appealing in concept....what elements can be added to Nova that are self contained and offer similar gameplay/meta dynamics, such that at the very least, the Nova universe still feels large and connected, even if not directly linked to EVE Online. Sorry Pokey, but the instant you talk about Nova not having an "EvE link", I just wonder why I keep reading. There simply is no point to me in developing Nova without it. It might be a reasonably good game. That won't matter to me, because it doesn't exist in the New Eden universe. Yes, it might be located there but without the lore, without the interconnection with other games in that universe, it's just not going to cut it. It will just be another game that CCP has developed using the development environment that they're turning New Eden into. Essentially, CCP appears to be moving away from everything that was good about EvE Online, abandoning the very things that made it and still make it superior, particularly the huge population of dedicated players who see it as an alternate universe NOT a game. They won't play Nova because it won't be part of that alternate universe, it will be just a game, and they won't be interested in it, for the same reason they weren't interested in Dust, Walking in Stations, etc, that being that they saw the resources dedicated to those as being wasted when they could have been invested into EvE. You talk about the "romantic ideal of what the EVE link offers", but to an EvE player, it's nothing about that. It's about how other games in the New Eden universe impact EvE, making it better or worse in some way, whether they would even think to play them. To a non-EvE player, it will simply be about how good the game is, and in a market that's already full of FPSs, without not just an "EvE link" but rather a fully functional interaction between Nova and EvE, it would not be unique enough to flourish. The whole episode feels to me like CCP has been taken over by someone who doesn't see the point in EvE and is determined to turn CCP into just another games developer. If they lose EvE in the progress, I think they might as well shut up shop. I don't think that will happen unless they deliberately destroy EvE, because of the massive player base that live in that universe. But if they just keep squandering resources on the next glitzy toy they will never expand the New Eden universe, which is what I believe they would need to do to stay successful.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1284	Posted - 2016.11.22 17:12:00 - [9] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well Alena then you might as well quit now, because it's not going to have an EVE link. Maybe someday an indirect economic link, but not right away, and certainly not anytime soon. In the meantime I'm still willing to see how it turns out and see what can be done given the limitations they've set forth. Pokey, in all honesty I already have quit, in that I don't expect Nova to fulfill my requirements. Unlike the rest of my EvE brethren, I will probably still try it because I'm curious. It was that curiosity that got me into Dust when everyone was saying it was a waste of time and money and I did enjoy it to an extent, but for me it was still very much enjoyment of those New Eden characteristics, the fact that I trained exclusively Caldari, for instance, and Gallente on my alt. From what I can see even that distinction will be removed right from go with Nova. I don't say I won't try it, but I can say now it will have to be a very good game in its own right to hold me without the New Eden link. I'm already back in EvE Online on a daily basis and thoroughly enjoying it. So are many former Dusters, who have discovered what we already knew but which was somewhat hidden to us in Dust. Alpha clones mean we can play for free as our chosen race, which means for the first time, CCP has actually built in the race distinctions somewhat meaningfully, at least into EvE. Removing them from Nova seems a bit strange to me in that light.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1284	Posted - 2016.11.22 17:58:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: No racial distinction in Nova? I'm confused to what you are reffering to. Perhaps things have changed from when I last looked, but it appeared to me that everyone was going to be just one race, with a mixture of weapons from various races, so there was effectively no racial distinction, just a mixture, right from the start. Is that not the case?